Toughbook or is there something better

[chance-alot]

I'm the Commo Chief for a new LRS company at Fort Hood. I've used Panasonic Toughbooks and PDAs as data devices to replace what we used to use KL-43Cs and DMDGs for. My question is -

Is there something better out there now?

I've looked at OQOs as a possibility but am worried about their durability for R&S.
I know that I've crunched up a couple CF-18s in the past and don't think that a OQO will survive.

Since we just stood up I have the opportunity to fight for what I want instead of what big green wants to give us. Any help you guys can provide will be appreciated.

~ Chance

[The Reaper]

Search button hard for you to find?

TR

[chance-alot]

I searched... "toughbook", "data device" "DMDG" and "OQO". I didn't see anything that answered my question. I did see some info on the OQO but if it doesn't fill the requirement what does?

[The Reaper]

Funny, "Toughbook" gives me five hits, did you read through all of them?

At least one concerns the durability of the Toughbook in a deployed environment, and its alternatives.

We cannot discuss crypto applications on this unclassified board.

TR

[CSB]

Here's an article about a hand held, pricey ($2,500) , but supposedly very rugged computer/navigator/communicator.

And the web site: http://www.trimble.com/ps_nomad.shtml

Nomad is a wonder for wanderers
GCN Lab Review: The Trimble Nomad 800LE packs Microsoft Office, a GPS receiver and more into a tough shell.

By Trudy Walsh

It's not a question of what the Trimble Nomad 800LE can do. The real question is what can’t it do? The rugged handheld computer has a built-in Global Positioning System receiver that gives longitude, latitude and wind speed. It runs the Windows Office suite. It can take pictures and video. It can scan bar codes. It links to the Internet via Bluetooth, Wi-Fi or a virtual private network. It plays your favorite songs.



It sends e-mail. It transcribes your poor penmanship into legible text.

And ruggedized is almost too mild a word to describe it; Rambo-ized would be a more accurate description. The Nomad handled every form of abuse the GCN Lab threw at it with nary a blip. We practically played kickball with it, and it still performed its many functions beautifully.

The school-bus-yellow unit is a little bigger and heavier than the average BlackBerry personal digital assistant, but the Nomad is packed with features most BlackBerrys don’t have. The unit weighs 21 ounces, including a rechargeable battery.

Setup was easy. The Nomad’s stylus has a Phillips screwdriver at one end, which came in handy. We plopped in the lithium ion battery and screwed the cover tight, and, voilà, the Nomad came to life.

Charging the device initially was the hardest part of setting up the Nomad. It comes with four different adapters so there’s no excuse for not finding a compatible socket. It took a few hours for the indicator light to go green. But that was really the only waiting we had to do. The Nomad’s 806 MHz processor made it a zippier computer than many laptop PCs we’ve used. Once charged, the battery lasted just fine throughout the week or so we spent testing it.

The Nomad runs on the Windows Mobile platform, so it comes loaded with Windows Media player, Internet Explorer, PowerPoint, Excel, Word and synchronization capabilities with Outlook e-mail systems.

The box includes a CD to help get started and sync e-mail. We also loaded some favorite tunes from Windows Media onto the Nomad, using the included USB connection.

This led us to our one real criticism of the Nomad: It didn’t include earphones and had a small audio jack. We combed through our whole collection of earphones, and they were all too big for the audio outlet. To listen to our music, we had to hold the Nomad’s built-in speaker up to our ear like an old transistor radio. Our suggestion to Trimble: Include earphones that will work with the Nomad in the next version or simply go with a standard-size jack.

The transcriber software, however, worked like a charm. Admittedly, when we used the stylus to write “Works like a charm” on the device, it translated our chicken scratchings as “Works like a chain.” But that’s still a better comprehension level than most people have when they try to read our handwriting.

At the top of the unit is a bar code-reading laser light, which cast a powerful red beam when we activated it, using the built-in Scan- Agent tool. User need to download software for their specific bar code application. But ScanAgent still did some rudimentary logging of bar code data. It scanned our driver’s license bar code and the bar code on the back of a biography of C.S. Lewis we were reading, and it noted both our driver’s license number and the book’s ISBN number accurately.

The GPS directions and documentation are built into the unit, so there’s no fumbling with a paper manual. To test the receiver, we took the Nomad for a stroll around the wooded glen that surrounds the GCN Lab. The unit displayed a graphical representation of the heavens and showed that about 12 satellites were orbiting above us, about half of which were being used, shown in blue.

It took a minute or two to register our latitude and longitude. The numbers went up and down in a most gratifying way as we walked east and west, north and south. The Nomad also noted the wind speed, which varied from about 0.8 mph to 6 mph. The temperature was in the mid-30s, and our hands got stiff clutching the Nomad, which wasn’t affected at all by the cold.

The screen stayed clear and legible despite the bright afternoon sun, which is important, considering the outdoors work that most Nomad users will probably be doing.

Back inside the lab, we subjected the Nomad to a series of ruggedness tests.

Trimble’s literature states that the Nomad series meets the Mil-Std-810F standard for drops, vibration and temperature extremes.

We say, amen to that.

With no signs of distress, the Nomad ably survived the GCN Lab’s rain forest environment test, which consisted of 30 minutes in a sealed box with temperatures of 120 degrees F and 100 percent humidity. We thought the rain forest might at least steam off the removable plastic screen protector that came with the unit, but it didn’t.

We then dropped the Nomad onto plywood over concrete from various heights, on its front, back, sides, top, bottom and all four corners.

At the two-foot drop, the unit bounced a little, especially on the black rubber end pieces.

At three feet, the black rubber showed a bit of wear, but the Nomad carried on, its reassuring deep-blue Windows interface still glowing. At five feet, the Nomad was still working fine. Because the bottom of the unit is heavier than the top, the Nomad turned during the fall like a cat falling out of an apartment building, but it always landed just fine.

At $2,499, the Nomad is a bargain, if you consider what it would cost to buy all these functions separately — a GPS, PDA, MP3 player, tablet PC, digital camera and scanner.

Anyone who needs to know location — such as people who work in surveying, construction, fleet management or public safety — would do well to bring along the Nomad. The multitasking nature of the Nomad would make it a great addition to the toolbox of government employees who work in agriculture, homeland security, transportation, law enforcement or any job that requires data collection outdoors.

[chance-alot]

We cannot discuss crypto applications on this unclassified board.

TR

I understand that it can be a rough world for a FNG; but I didn't attempt to discuss anything concerning crypto, SOPs or software used. I've sat back and scanned the forums for a couple weeks and did a lot of reading before posting. I think I have a pretty good understanding of how unclassified these boards are. Trust me TR, I wouldn't do anything to jeopardize my ability to gain information from the wealth of knowledge here. I only mentioned the KL-43 and DMDG because only people who know what those things are would have the knowledge/experience to help me.

I must be doing something wrong with the search function. I only got 4 results and none of them came close to answering my question.

Obviously size and weight are an issue... does anyone here have any experience or input on the GD Itronix GoBook MR-1? What I'm looking for has to go in an RTO ruck; there's no room for an average sized notebook in a pelican case.

[The Reaper]

Clearly, you have some strong opinions about what you want to do and believe that you are correct in your course of action.

Let me just point out that the difference between a DMDG and a notebook is all of the other things that a notebook can be used for, and the limited ability to store anything other than message traffic on a DMDG.

Any notebook (or thumbdrive, for that matter) is going to wind up with photos, email, PowerPoints OPORDs, etc.

When the notebook falls into the wrong hands, as one invariably will, and has already happened with at least one SEAL team, what happens to all of the mission related (and sensitive non-mission related) data on it?

TR

[SF_BHT]

Clearly, you have some strong opinions about what you want to do and believe that you are correct in your course of action.

Let me just point out that the difference between a DMDG and a notebook is all of the other things that a notebook can be used for, and the limited ability to store anything other than message traffic on a DMDG.

Any notebook (or thumbdrive, for that matter) is going to wind up with photos, email, PowerPoints OPORDs, etc.

When the notebook falls into the wrong hands, as one invariably will, and has already happened with at least one SEAL team, what happens to all of the mission related (and sensitive non-mission related) data on it?

TR

X2
Laptops are for the rear area and when you launch on a mission (RECON/etc) your communication device should be the secure/Zero capable data device. Toooooo many things can be recovered from a Laptop/Palm. Base Camp Operations are different. You have a large force, you are fixed and dug in and will be able to destroy or extract critical data equipment when needed. Keep it simple and your rucksack will be lighter.

[chance-alot]

X2
Laptops are for the rear area and when you launch on a mission (RECON/etc) your communication device should be the secure/Zero capable data device. Toooooo many things can be recovered from a Laptop/Palm. Base Camp Operations are different. You have a large force, you are fixed and dug in and will be able to destroy or extract critical data equipment when needed. Keep it simple and your rucksack will be lighter.

I appreciate the guidance from both you and TR. I have better visibility on some problems that you guys have pointed out. But my teams still have a requirement for data burst. I'm listening and an extremely receptive to your advice. I need more than a problem identified, I need to find a solution. Obviously I need to put more thought into the security side of the devices contents. I know what I've used in the past (this is my 3rd LRS assignment) accomplished the mission but did so in a less that perfect way. I was just hoping to find something better.

[chance-alot]

Let me just point out that the difference between a DMDG and a notebook is all of the other things that a notebook can be used for, and the limited ability to store anything other than message traffic on a DMDG.

Any notebook (or thumbdrive, for that matter) is going to wind up with photos, email, PowerPoints OPORDs, etc.

TR

Real time imagery is one of the reasons why we got rid of our DMDGs/KL-43 in the late 90's. I don't think that I was focused enough on the security side. Thanks for the realignment TR.

[chance-alot]

I think that I've found what suits my needs and in-case this topic ever re-emerges I'll answer my own question...

http://www.gd-itronix.com/index.cfm?page=Products:MR-1

I have contacted the manufacturer and will do some testing and evaluation. Hopefully it works out for us.

[Team Sergeant]

chance-alot,

Commo is one of those subjects we're not going to get into too deeply on here.

Intel, commo, demo, tactics, techniques and procedures, current operations etc we're just not going to answer some questions.

TS

[smitty]

I'm the Commo Chief for a new LRS company at Fort Hood. I've used Panasonic Toughbooks and PDAs as data devices to replace what we used to use KL-43Cs and DMDGs for. My question is -

Is there something better out there now?

I've looked at OQOs as a possibility but am worried about their durability for R&S.
I know that I've crunched up a couple CF-18s in the past and don't think that a OQO will survive.

Since we just stood up I have the opportunity to fight for what I want instead of what big green wants to give us. Any help you guys can provide will be appreciated.

~ Chance
Is Grid computers still around??

[brushingham.d]

I have looked into a mini computer made by General Dynamics, I don't have the info here with me but if you goto their site it is only about 4x4x2in and is wireless, gps, and usb capable this might meet your needs in replacing the CF-18, alos if I were to take a laptop I would carry the CF-74 it is a little better and has many more options..

[The Reaper]

brushingham:

Appreciate the input, but you need to reread your registration message and comply with the instructions before posting again.

An introduction in the right place would be a good start.

Thanks.

TR

[Irishsquid]

I don't know if this thread is still active, and I'm not an 18E. That said, on my last deployment, I worked in the J6 for a SOCCE, and had a lot of experience operating/maintaining computers and communications equipment in a deployed environment. My experience with the toughbooks was positive, overall. As stated here, though, a lot of "extras," do end up on the laptops. We usually ended up wiping the hard drives and reinstalling everything about once a month. If you follow this course of action, keep some kind of disk image on-hand. Makes things a lot smoother that way. I'll go back to lurking now.

Irishsquid, OUT!

[SF_BHT]

It is active as long as someone wants to comment.

Have a good Tech Day:cool:

[The Reaper]

Anyone used the new Toughbook U1 yet?

TR

[69harley]

This really depends on what is most important, size, ruggedness, speed?

For size, I like the OQO. It's main drawback is ruggedness though. To me, the OQO is more like an updated Libretto.

The GoBook appears to be very rugged and has the form factor of an ANCD. I have only seen these units so my opinion on them is limited.

We might as well discuss ANCD software as well in this discussion. Why cant we get a PC platform and adapter cables to do ANCD type stuff?

The PC's that connect to type 1 radios are already classified, so why can't we get software to run on them and a cable to do the various functions? It would mean one less 'box' that guys have to carry.

Makes sense to me, but then again my only agenda is the ODA and what makes sense for them

[FireCrotch]

chance-alot: Did you ever get any of the Gobook MR-1's? I am curious because I have been looking into some as well. The U1 looks nice, it's about the same size as the MR-1 but (as long as I read it right) it has no PCMCIA slot and its a tablet pc rather than a clamshell which leaves that screen vulnerable. We are using some OQOs now and are not very impressed. They break and can't really handle the software well.

I do agree with irishsquid though and I think it is critical as an echo to make an image cd for any mission essential pcs and reimage at least once a month. Keep down on the viruses and of course non-mission related material ;)

[69harley]

We have been using the new Dell E6400FXR, not as small as an OQO but seems more durable than any Toughbook I have ever used. Ours our maxed out, to include shock mounted 128GB solid state hard drives, 8GB of RAM, back lit keyboards and Windows XP. All of our video and 'other' software runs just fine on these systems.

[Irishsquid]

Anyone used the new Toughbook U1 yet?

TR

Haven't messed with it yet, but as soon as I get a chance, I'll give you a review.

[smitty]

Still using the DumDoGs???

[BBCommo]

I have been using the same Panasonic CF-29 for 2 deployments, and i haven't had a problem yet. Even with all the movements and conditions that aren't friendly to electronics it has been a good computer. That's my 2 cents.

[Amato]

I'm looking for something smaller than a CF19, has a serial port to support ADC, and is ruggedized. So far I am looking at the General Dynamics one.

[69harley]

USB to serial port adapters are now common. No need to limit your selection to those with serial ports, although I do like the GoBook from GD.

[civil]

Not sure if you guys have seen this yet but I sure think it's great.

The first real dual screen laptop and they are making a tough version with MIL standards and supposedly Navy approval.

"We are moving forward with our TITAN M-1 dual screen workstation. This DUO 15.4 workstation is a ruggedized version of our G400 dual-screen laptop. This product is being built specifically to specs requested by the US NAVY for extreme environments.

Some of the specs and new technology that is based in this unit we cannot yet discuss, but it will have an INTEL CORE 2 QUAD QX9300 processor, 4GB ram, 500GB drive and is built to MIL-STD 810F standards.


http://www.gscreencorp.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtrVPywcdC0

[Papa Zero Three]

I think that I've found what suits my needs and in-case this topic ever re-emerges I'll answer my own question...

http://www.gd-itronix.com/index.cfm?page=Products:MR-1

I have contacted the manufacturer and will do some testing and evaluation. Hopefully it works out for us.


I've had hands on experience with that model for a bit over a year plus. We are using it for a HAHO/HALO Nav board replacement. We've had it up to 25k MSL and down to -52 on a few occasions. The only issue we had with it was when we initially had hard disk drives in them before the manufacturer could get us solid state ones. Even then, the HDs lasted through several hundred jumps before we started to have issues. Once we installed the solid state HD all the issues disappeared. Its a great little computer and it has a built in GPS receiver. It is also what the AF loadmasters are using on some A/C. A really cool feature is it's ability to slave to a set of AN/PVS 21's so you can see the computer screen through the NODs in true HUD fashion.

Since you're a LRS unit, you have a HALO requirement and this laptop can help you reduce equipment carried as it can do the commo tasks you need and it can also help you with the HALO/HAHO mission. Shoot me a PM with your .mil e-mail address if you have any questions.