View Full Version : Pentagon questions Obama’s soldier story
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301273 :munchin
I question a whole lot about Obama.
longrange1947
02-23-2008, 07:54
Link will not work for me. :(
The Reaper
02-23-2008, 09:14
I saw the story. It appears to be a media hatchet job ("The Pentagon on Friday tried to cast doubt on an account of military equipment shortages "), another hate Bush report, and another attempt to give Obama a substantive talking point.
Basically, Obama was saying that it was easier for the soldiers to capture Taliban weapons than to obtain US ones, essentially blaming the supply system on not arming troops. An Army CPT allegedly told him this.
First, the real story was specifically directed at crew-served weapons for training, not sure why they didn't get them, what sort of unit it was, whether they were on the unit TO&E, etc.
Second, I am not exactly sure how you take guns from someone who has them if you do not. I doubt that the Taliban was participating in a local gun buy-back program.
Finally, he alleges that hisd platoon was split deployed between OIF and OEF, which I have never heard of. He might have deployed short some people, and assumed that replacement priorities went to OIF, but no rifle platoon is being split between theaters. The story below sounds like they PCSed, and he did not get enough replacements to fill the slots.
Regardless, the Army said that since the CPT would not identify himself or his unit that it was impossible to explain or comment on.
My personal impression is that this is a BS story, or there is an explanation for why the unit was short on MGs.
Besides, how do you mount a DShK in a turret designed for a M-2 or Mark 19?
Not that I wouldn't like a DShK or PKM of my own.:D
Here is the MSNBC story:
Pentagon questions Obama’s soldier story
Captain tells NBC he was referring to shortages for training
WASHINGTON - The Pentagon on Friday tried to cast doubt on an account of military equipment shortages mentioned by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, whose campaign team stood by the story.
In a debate with rival Hillary Clinton on Thursday evening, Obama said he had heard from an Army captain who served in Afghanistan and whose unit did not have enough ammunition or vehicles.
Obama said it was easier for the troops to capture weapons from Taliban militants than it was "to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief," President Bush.
"I find that account pretty hard to imagine," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters.
"Despite the stress that we readily acknowledge on the force, one of the things that we do is make sure that all of our units and service members that are going into harm's way are properly trained, equipped and with the leadership to be successful," he said.
Captain: Training shortages
The captain told NBC News that he was talking about not having enough ammunition and no Humvees for training, but that his unit underwent a three-week crash course in Afghanistan before they saw combat.
The captain, who spoke on background because he's still active duty, said that his unit temporarily had to replace their .50-caliber turret-mounted machine gun with a weapon seized from the Taliban because they couldn't get a needed part fast enough.
He did not say that any of the shortages contributed to any combat casualties in his unit. But he said any shortage, whether in training or combat operations, was inexcusable for the U.S. military.
Obama said the captain had served as the head of a rifle platoon, which should have had 39 members — but 15 had been sent to Iraq so the unit deployed to Afghanistan had only 24 soldiers.
Obama's campaign said an ABC News interview with the captain confirmed the story. ABC said the officer was a lieutenant when he led a platoon to Afghanistan in 2003. Fifteen soldiers were reassigned to other units in ones and twos and not replaced before the unit deployed, ABC cited the captain as saying. He knew 10 had gone to Iraq, and suspected the other five had too, ABC said.
Running issue with military
Military equipment shortages have been a big U.S. political issue, particularly in the early years of the Iraq war.
A U.S. soldier confronted then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld over the topic in Kuwait in 2004, complaining that troops were forced to dig up scrap metal to protect their vehicles because the military did not have enough armor.
Rumsfeld famously replied that "you go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time" — a remark that drew widespread criticism.
The U.S. Army said it was hard to verify the account cited by Obama without being able to identify the unit involved.
Republican Sen. John Warner questioned Obama's recounting, calling it "a disturbing framework of factual allegations."
Warner, who supports Sen. John McCain, told Obama in a letter that the incident likely happened on his watch as chairman of the Senate Armed Services. He said he's asked the Defense Department for information and will raise the issue next week in hearings with defense officials.
He asked Obama for "the essential facts," including when and where the events happened and which units were involved.
LR dont know why the piece isnt coming up. ....And THANKS REAPER for the condensed version. Some other interesting items from the Obama Camp in that article:an Army captain who served in Afghanistan and whose unit did not have enough ammunition or vehicles.
Obama said it was easier for the troops to capture weapons from Taliban militants than it was "to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief," President Bush
Everyone knows that Obama WOULD KNOW just how easy it is to Capture Taliban weapons.
I find that account pretty hard to imagine," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters.
The Army "Captain" kept his identity secret because he's on AD
Word "on the street" has it that the CPT was referring to the situation in 2003-04. Seems someone conveniently left out that little detail.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
From the Fact Check Desk: Obama's Army Anecdote
February 22, 2008 1:33 PM
At last night's debate in Texas, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, told an anecdote about an Army captain that is causing a lot of chatter in the political world.
Obama was making a point about what he called "the single most important foreign policy decision of this generation, whether or not to go to war in Iraq." His point was that in opposing the war he "showed the judgment of a commander in chief. And I think that Senator Clinton was wrong in her judgments on that."
He argued the Iraq war "diverted attention from Afghanistan where Al Qaeda, that killed 3,000 Americans, are stronger now than at any time since 2001."
And then he told the following story to argue that Clinton's vote -- and the larger decision to go to war -- had negative consequences.
"You know, I've heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon -- supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon," he said. "Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq. And as a consequence, they didn't have enough ammunition, they didn't have enough humvees. They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief."
Asked about the story in the Spin Room last night, Obama strategist David Axelrod told the National Review's Stephen Spruiell, "that was a discussion that a captain in the military had with our staff, and he asked that that be passed along to Senator Obama."
Conservatives have weighed in on this story, many of them challenging its veracity (see HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE.)
I called the Obama campaign this morning to chat about this story, and was put in touch with the Army captain in question.
He told me his story, which I found quite credible, though for obvious reasons he asked that I not mention his name or certain identifying information.
Short answer: He backs up Obama's story.
The longer answer is worth telling, though.
The Army captain, a West Point graduate, did a tour in a hot area of eastern Afghanistan from the Summer of 2003 through Spring 2004.
Prior to deployment the Captain -- then a Lieutenant -- took command of a rifle platoon at Fort Drum. When he took command, the platoon had 39 members, but -- in ones and twos -- 15 members of the platoon were re-assigned to other units. He knows of 10 of those 15 for sure who went to Iraq, and he suspects the other five did as well.
The platoon was sent to Afghanistan with 24 men.
"We should have deployed with 39," he told me, "we should have gotten replacements. But we didn't. And that was pretty consistent across the battalion."
He adds that maybe a half-dozen of the 15 were replaced by the Fall of 2003, months after they arrived in Afghanistan, but never all 15.
As for the weapons and humvees, there are two distinct periods in this, as he explains -- before deployment, and afterwards.
At Fort Drum, in training, "we didn't have access to heavy weapons or the ammunition for the weapons, or humvees to train before we deployed."
What ammunition?
40 mm automatic grenade launcher ammunition for the MK-19, and ammunition for the .50 caliber M-2 machine gun ("50 cal.")
"We weren't able to train in the way we needed to train," he says. When the platoon got to Afghanistan they had three days to learn.
They also didn't have the humvees they were supposed to have both before deployment and once they were in Afghanistan, the Captain says.
"We should have had 4 up-armored humvees," he said. "We were supposed to. But at most we had three operable humvees, and it was usually just two."
So what did they do? "To get the rest of the platoon to the fight," he says, "we would use Toyota Hilux pickup trucks or unarmored flatbed humvees." Sometimes with sandbags, sometimes without.
Also in Afghanistan they had issues getting parts for their MK-19s and their 50-cals. Getting parts or ammunition for their standard rifles was not a problem.
"It was very difficult to get any parts in theater," he says, "because parts are prioritized to the theater where they were needed most -- so they were going to Iraq not Afghanistan."
"The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons," he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons. Sometimes AK-47s, and they also mounted a Soviet-model DShK (or "Dishka") on one of their humvees instead of their 50 cal.
The Captain has spoken to Sen. Obama, he says, but this anecdote was relayed to Obama through an Obama staffer.
I find that Obama's anecdote checks out.
Some are quibbling about whether or not the "commander in chief" can be held responsible for how well our soldiers are being equipped, since Congress provides the funding for the military, but the Pentagon (and ultimately President Bush) are in charge of the funding mechanism.
I might suggest those on the blogosphere upset about this story would be better suited directing their ire at those responsible for this problem, which is certainly not new. That is, if they actually care about the men and women bravely serving our country at home and abroad.
- jpt
longrange1947
02-23-2008, 09:47
I got it to load after eight times of hitting reload. Probably a glitch in this new and great Vista computer I just got for a self Christmas present. :D
I found, after reading and re reading that he was not short a .50 only a spare part. That is not unusual. deploying short of personnel, not unusual.
The only thing I see is just how little Obama understands of the military and just how screwed up an un-named CPT is making himself out to be in a national spotlight. :munchin
I Hate all Politicians. They do anything to get a Vote not matter how inaccurate it is. We need to give him a Military 101 course if he thinks he can be Boss.
I Hate all Politicians.
Quote of the year.
STEN
Quote of the year.
Originally Posted by SF_BHT
I Hate all Politicians.
Youve got to admit, it leaves very, very little room for misunderstanding.
The Army captain, a West Point graduate...
Please, please let me meet this whiny little kid someday...please.
Ambush Master
02-23-2008, 15:49
Please, please let me meet this whiny little kid someday...please.
+1 Tera!!!
Had a CSM used to tell me that I had Pi$$ed him off to the highest leve of Pi$$tivity.....I think RAZOR has just reached that level.