View Full Version : Harsey's Nemesis!!!
Ambush Master
02-07-2008, 21:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei9LlLLZwAU
:eek::munchin
That was nauseating.
...and if it was asparagus?
Pat
The Guy who owns the property next to mine, is a logger. He clear cutted his property a number of years ago. I believed it was equipment from Finland. Really impressive to watch. Low impact to the land. The loader was similar. Amazing stuff they have out now.
Logging country West of me.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/1PanA.jpg
John Henry...I mean Mr. Harsey could take that there fancy machine any day! He just needs the right saw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_owXd_MsdXI
:lifter
I saved that to my favorites. That is an extremely impressive piece of equipment. No doubt about it!
But it would be nice if builders and architects and designers had the balls to build around some of those trees. Maybe it was a sewer route. Who knows?
While that beast was fun to watch, I wonder how many wasted hours could have been used to save some of the trees.
Yet, I still couldn't wait until it ripped through another victim.
I'm Wierd.
But it would be nice if builders and architects and designers had the balls to build around some of those trees.
Trees to close to a structure are a serious fire risk, and up in the NW they are a big risk when the wind kicks up.
Trees to close to a structure are a serious fire risk, and up in the NW they are a big risk when the wink kicks up.
That is a Affirmative. One of our neighbors had to do some re-roofing and framing when a tree decide to fall on his house.
The Fir trees here require a stand of trees to stay up right. The root structure does not go deep. After the logger neighbor clear cutted his property a wind storm came up. We lost one tree but another person lost 70 trees because of the clear cut. Our property is more shelter from the prevailing winds.
Also a Large old maple, fell over when it was bumped by a track hoe when the property was being cleared. The maple root ball was rotted and the tree was just balancing itself on what was left.
Trees can look healthy but that may not mean they are safe.
Then as you mentioned, there is fire hazard. Older construction is more vulnerable to fire. We re-roofed our house this summer, we hand cedar shakes. Cedar shakes makes very good kindling.
If they were asparagus…wrapped in some thinly sliced smoked copper river salmon, with chive, orange zest, and very light hollandaise… we would have Asparagus in Bondage, but they are not. It disturbs me we can’t find alternative materials or a way to live here… we really need to find a balance…every now and then I pull out the picture of the earth taken from the moon… its fragile beauty quiets my mind and frightens my soul.
warrottjr
02-08-2008, 11:10
…every now and then I pull out the picture of the earth taken from the moon… its fragile beauty quiets my mind and frightens my soul.
What is the OPLAN for E.T.'s?
Red Flag 1
02-08-2008, 14:40
I want one!! Just spent the last three days repairing a fence that ice laden pines desroyed last weekend. Impressive machine!! Thanks for the video.
RF 1
If they were asparagus…wrapped in some thinly sliced smoked copper river salmon, with chive, orange zest, and very light hollandaise… we would have Asparagus in Bondage...
My wife brought some pencil-thin asparagus home last night. I'll have to try this.
It disturbs me we can’t find alternative materials or a way to live here… we really need to find a balance…every now and then I pull out the picture of the earth taken from the moon… its fragile beauty quiets my mind and frightens my soul.
Mother Earth gives as good as she gets: Mt. St. Helens, the Northridge earthquake, Hurricane Katrina.
She also absorbs blows pretty well, too: The Yucatan asteroid and the whack she took from whatever knocked loose the chunk of Earth that became the Moon from which that photo was taken.
The UN's FAO stats show that US forests have increased in the last 15 years (http://www.fao.org/forestry/site/32185/en/usa/) and are larger than in 1920. The worlds forest cover is roughly 30% of the landmass now, the same as in 1950. (FAO Production Yearbooks 1949 to 1995)
It doesn't strike me as all that fragile.
Bon appétit!
Pat
If they were asparagus…wrapped in some thinly sliced smoked copper river salmon, with chive, orange zest, and very light hollandaise… we would have Asparagus in Bondage, but they are not. It disturbs me we can’t find alternative materials or a way to live here… we really need to find a balance…every now and then I pull out the picture of the earth taken from the moon… its fragile beauty quiets my mind and frightens my soul.
The logging done now in the US is low impact, using similar techniques as low intensity agriculture. In addition to that there are more protected old growth forests and national parks.
This world isn't as fragile as people think.
x SF med
02-08-2008, 16:26
It just ran through my mind that Harsey and a chain saw would make short work of that stand. If he didn't cut off one of his legs in the process.:eek:
Thanks to the big Timber companies. International Paper and Georgia Pacific we have more pine timber in the southeast than we have had since the country was settled.
Don't worry about loggers cutting all of the timber, they are the best Green People we have.
clapdoc sends
dmgedgoods
02-08-2008, 18:48
#
The Reaper
02-08-2008, 20:03
If they were asparagus…wrapped in some thinly sliced smoked copper river salmon, with chive, orange zest, and very light hollandaise… we would have Asparagus in Bondage, but they are not. It disturbs me we can’t find alternative materials or a way to live here… we really need to find a balance…every now and then I pull out the picture of the earth taken from the moon… its fragile beauty quiets my mind and frightens my soul.
Get a grip.
I have a good friend who is a timber harvester, and he plants many more trees than he harvests.
The majority of timbering is on company owned property, and it is rotated, with fresh trees planted soon after harvesting.
First research, then parrot eco-idiot propoganda.:rolleyes:
TR
warrottjr
02-08-2008, 20:07
First research, then parrot eco-idiot propoganda.
All the eco-babble cite practices that don't exist on our continent.
It just ran through my mind that Harsey and a chain saw would make short work of that stand. If he didn't cut off one of his legs in the process.:eek:
I figured all Bill had to do was hit the ground, one blow from his huge right hand and all the trees would hop out of the ground and on to the logging truck.
BTW, on asparagus, Sautéed in butter with almonds.
Team Sergeant
02-08-2008, 20:14
Get a grip.
I have a good friend who is a timber harvester, and he plants many more trees than he harvests.
The majority of timbering is on company owned property, and it is rotated, with fresh trees planted soon after harvesting.
First research, then parrot eco-idiot propoganda.:rolleyes:
TR
I've flown low and slow over parts of Washington State that "still" looks like the dark side of the moon because of the lumber industry.
I doubt that anyone is planting the weight they are removing and replacing it with the same "weight" of new trees.....
TS
TS, hop a flight to Bangor, ME then charter a bush pilot to fly you over the 6.5 million acres of forests previously owned and harvested for 70+ years by International Paper. One word...lush. They sold it off because of all the environmental restrictions being passed, then moved almost all its operations out of the country to South America and Russia (along with almost all the other major paper companies), where the EPA doesn't have sway. My f-i-l worked for IP for 35 years as a professional forester (got his degree from COL Moroney's alma mater), and he was never concerned about the health of the company forests prior to the sell-off. Of course, now the land is being bought by developers, especially around Moosehead Lake and other lakes and ponds, for residential and commercial development. Phase one of their plan--cut down most of the trees to build houses, roads, stores and restaurants. :rolleyes:
The Reaper
02-08-2008, 21:05
I've flown low and slow over parts of Washington State that "still" looks like the dark side of the moon because of the lumber industry.
I doubt that anyone is planting the weight they are removing and replacing it with the same "weight" of new trees.....
TS
Not sure where you were looking, perhaps it was recently harvested and the seedlings were too small to be seen from that altitude. I suspect that any bare ground in the NW that gets rain has trees growing on it pretty quickly after clearing whether they are planted or regrow naturally. I have seen completely burned out areas green again within a few months. Most of the trees being harvested in the video are pretty small, probably less than 30 years old.
No one replants with mature trees, that would not make business sense. Most areas have optimized new seedlings for a specific purpose and growth period. IIRC, we reharvest managed pines around here on a 15 year cycle or so. Doug fir may take longer. Regardless, when they reach maturity, they are harvested and replanted. Vast tracts of timber around the South are owned and operated by Georgia-Pacific and Weyerhauser, and they make no money off naked soil.
I have no issue with Mr. Harsey's former line of work or the people who do it today with more modern tools, as long as the timber is managed. Those who clear cut and did not manage the land are far in our past. IMHO, those who do not like logging should swear off wood products for a while. It will grow back.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
I live where there is a mix of logging and agriculture. The problem with logging is the growth cycle. Farmers will plow and disc a field and in no time at all stuff is growing out of the ground. They might do this 2 to 3 times a year.
Logging on the other hand takes decades for cycle to complete itself. On our property we did a selective cut. 7 truck loads of timber and about the same amount of "fur" wood (fire wood). That was about 20 % of our timber. I figure we can do that every ten years. The growth cycle of the fir we have is about 50 years.
So for logging the growth cycle adds to the perceptions of "bareness". Logging is Agri-industry at a slower pace.
GratefulCitizen
02-08-2008, 21:40
The trees were left nice and thick near Jacob Lake up on the Kaibab plateau.
After a few nasty fires, it's a moonscape littered with burnt wooden shafts.
Lotsa trees have been harvested since then.
John Deere can't compete with a few well-placed and timed lightning strikes.
TS, hop a flight to Bangor, ME then charter a bush pilot to fly you over the 6.5 million acres of forests previously owned and harvested for 70+ years by International Paper. One word...lush. They sold it off because of all the environmental restrictions being passed, then moved almost all its operations out of the country to South America and Russia (along with almost all the other major paper companies), where the EPA doesn't have sway. My f-i-l worked for IP for 35 years as a professional forester (got his degree from COL Moroney's alma mater), and he was never concerned about the health of the company forests prior to the sell-off. Of course, now the land is being bought by developers, especially around Moosehead Lake and other lakes and ponds, for residential and commercial development. Phase one of their plan--cut down most of the trees to build houses, roads, stores and restaurants.
That was then; this is now. Developing societies always rape the environment to get established. After the economy is secure and prosperous, a tipping point is reached and the damage slows or reverses.
I grew up in a 41’ trailer following the laying of oil pipelines from Canada to Texas. There were several intersections with Interstate Highway construction. The post-war years of the 50s were the boom years of building the infrastructure of the nation. Now that the nation is wealthy, the "slash and burn" years of the 50s have given way to the maintenance years. The right-of-ways have been secured and new technology can increase efficiency with little or no environmental impact. Houses will be built where people want to live and trees, like weeds, will grow where they don't.
This is a very interesting finding: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~alcoze/for398/class/pristinemyth.html
Pat
The vicious rhetoric of the tree-huggers…
Have no-fear; the trees shall survive! The housing market has taken a downward turn for the worst thus, the harvesting of our precious trees is on the decline.
Keep in mind also; there's other material being used today to build shelter that we humans need for survival nowadays!:lifter
Stay safe.
Get a grip.
I have a good friend who is a timber harvester, and he plants many more trees than he harvests.
The majority of timbering is on company owned property, and it is rotated, with fresh trees planted soon after harvesting.
First research, then parrot eco-idiot propoganda.
TR
Dammmit, I wish I could find a chain saw here in NYC and a stand of broad leaf trees to use it on, but no not gonna happen, the 1st thru the 5th growth are all gone. The only thing left is pole pines, what’s the cycle? Fifty years! I’m going to some yoga, then shoot my usp, check my manhood, look for some crackers and a big old girl to satisfy my tree hugging needs.
I’m going to some yoga, then shoot my usp, check my manhood, look for some crackers and a big old girl to satisfy my tree hugging needs.Well, I guess that's a plan...good luck with that...:munchin
The Reaper
02-09-2008, 12:09
Dammmit, I wish I could find a chain saw here in NYC and a stand of broad leaf trees to use it on, but no not gonna happen, the 1st thru the 5th growth are all gone. The only thing left is pole pines, what’s the cycle? Fifty years! I’m going to some yoga, then shoot my usp, check my manhood, look for some crackers and a big old girl to satisfy my tree hugging needs.
LMAO!
I thought everything was paved over there except for Central Park, where there were quite a few old growth trees.
Is there a lot of commercial logging business in NY state?
You will have to turn in your Greenpeace card if you shoot that USP though.:D
TR
That was then; this is now.
Thanks for pointing that out; I must have somehow missed the fact that time has passed.
Houses will be built where people want to live and trees, like weeds, will grow where they don't.
But what are the secondary and tertiary effects of that development on the specifics of that region? What is one of the top 5 industries in Maine, and the primary industry of the area around Moosehead Lake? What effect will significant lakeside development have on that industry through habitat modification and right-of-way easements changing? How will those changes affect the local population, not only economically but also in demographics? How will all of that affect the transportation infrastructure throughout the state, given Moosehead's location relative to other population centers?
Trite dismissives are easy to toss out there when you don't have even a superficial understanding of the regional specifics of the topic.
Thanks to the big Timber companies. International Paper and Georgia Pacific we have more pine timber in the southeast than we have had since the country was settled.
Don't worry about loggers cutting all of the timber, they are the best Green People we have.
clapdoc sends
BULLLSHIIIIIT
I've flown low and slow over parts of Washington State that "still" looks like the dark side of the moon because of the lumber industry.
I doubt that anyone is planting the weight they are removing and replacing it with the same "weight" of new trees.....
TS
Thank You.
Bill Harsey
02-09-2008, 17:52
This is an interesting issue.
I am very familiar with the rules regarding logging and reforestation in Oregon. They are far stricter than one might think.
Here are some things to think about.
First, western Oregon and Washington are mainly Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga Menziessii) forests. Been this way since the end of the last ice age.
These trees grow best only in full sunlight. Nature clear cuts too with catastrophic stand replacing fires. I've spoken with the paleo-forest scientists who have studied this and most stands of timber are usually burnt to bare dirt by nature about every 150 to 200 years.
You, me or anyone else cannot see the new trees from the air for years after planting. I've ridden in the front seat of a major "bad logging company" helicopter seeing this first hand. All clearcuts grow over, fairly fast too.
Here is another interesting issue, much of the logging you now see is done on private property. The publicly held forests timber harvest has been effectively shut down by the environmetal movement lawyers. They are now working on controlling your private property and doing a pretty good job too.
All private property is subject to the forestry laws of that state. For the most part this is good news.
How much do you want to control other peoples property? This quickly turns into much larger issues which some of you should be familar with.
Here is the one thing I've learned about the debate over logging/no logging.
Everyone uses wood products in things like homes, paper and cardboard packaging, printing paper and newspapers just to name a few. Nobody likes logging but all expect their goods and services to continue at the same rate and best possible cost.
Take for example newsprint and a single newspaper, a medium sized newspaper like the Eugene Register Guard. The Guard uses, by it's own admission, 8500 ton of newsprint in a year. Under the best of conditions it takes 1 lb.of wood to produce 1/2 lb. of paper. This means 17,000 tons of wood.
This works out to well in excess to 500 acres (underestimated to be kind to the paper) of clear cut in average sized western timber to make this much paper. This is only one single newspaper.
How much "clearcut" timber does the New York Times need?
I don't see anyone calling for the end of newspapers.
Ambush Master
02-09-2008, 18:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei9LlLLZwAU
:eek::munchin
Now, BACK to the intent of the Thread!!! (I was not insinuating or intending to get into the "Politically Correct" part of Harsey's Nemesis!!!)
It was about the MACHINERY!!!!:munchin
LATER
Martin
This is an interesting issue.
I am very familiar with the rules regarding logging and reforestation in Oregon. They are far stricter than one might think.
Here are some things to think about.
First, western Oregon and Washington are mainly Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga Menziessii) forests. Been this way since the end of the last ice age.
These trees grow best only in full sunlight. Nature clear cuts too with catastrophic stand replacing fires. I've spoken with the paleo-forest scientists who have studied this and most stands of timber are usually burnt to bare dirt by nature about every 150 to 200 years.
You, me or anyone else cannot see the new trees from the air for years after planting. I've ridden in the front seat of a major "bad logging company" helicopter seeing this first hand. All clearcuts grow over, fairly fast too.
Here is another interesting issue, much of the logging you now see is done on private property. The publicly held forests timber harvest has been effectively shut down by the environmetal movement lawyers. They are now working on controlling your private property and doing a pretty good job too.
All private property is subject to the forestry laws of that state. For the most part this is good news.
How much do you want to control other peoples property? This quickly turns into much larger issues which some of you should be familar with.
Here is the one thing I've learned about the debate over logging/no logging.
Everyone uses wood products in things like homes, paper and cardboard packaging, printing paper and newspapers just to name a few. Nobody likes logging but all expect their goods and services to continue at the same rate and best possible cost.
Take for example newsprint and a single newspaper, a medium sized newspaper like the Eugene Register Guard. The Guard uses, by it's own admission, 8500 ton of newsprint in a year. Under the best of conditions it takes 1 lb.of wood to produce 1/2 lb. of paper. This means 17,000 tons of wood.
This works out to well in excess to 500 acres (underestimated to be kind to the paper) of clear cut in average sized western timber to make this much paper. This is only one single newspaper.
How much "clearcut" timber does the New York Times need?
I don't see anyone calling for the end of newspapers.
Love you Bro...But no way
The Reaper
02-09-2008, 20:28
Love you Bro...But no way
KG:
What, specifically, are you taking exception to and can you provide references to support your objections?
TR
Timber Growth is slow any many don't notice it. I've been driving down to the beach through the Green Swamp for over 20 years now.
That section of Hwy 211 in Green Swamp runs from Bolton to Hwy 17, about 30ish miles. Most of it through managed pine forests. They log it out in about 200 acre sections. Clear cut, stack the tops, plant new trees and move to another section.
"You" notice when they cut a section. But then within a few years you have knee high trees, then 20 foot trees. You almost have to stop the car and really look at a section and force youself to remember it in the clear cut state.
In Fayetteville the All American Expressway was opened around 1980ish. At that time there were no pine trees in the cuts or on/off ramp loops. Look now and you see mini pine forests. And those pines were not planted they were seeds that just blew in.
Nature, with a little help, is amazing.
Pete
Not going to get into how the east end of Holden Beach is shrinking.
Bill Harsey
02-10-2008, 10:13
KG,
Thank you :D
I was speaking of Pacific Northwest Forests. Things may be different in other regions.
There is a reason I do not discuss weapons or tactics here but logging is something I've had some exposure to. During the time I worked in the woods I was part of a crew that "transitioned" over 120 million board feet of standing timber to the mills or docks.
I like seeing standing forests too.
The harvester shown in the video is one fast machine. These are being used in this region too. If anyone has spent time falling and limbing trees of that size, you'd go to bed at night wishing for a desk job.
I'm looking for pics of harvesters used in this region.
Bill Harsey
02-10-2008, 11:02
You guys should check this out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6uaDaS3usc and no it did not come from George Lucas's studios.
You guys should check this out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6uaDaS3usc and no it did not come from George Lucas's studios.
Curious on that impressive machine VS the wheeled one, does it impact the terrain more. The wheeled one, my understanding is that is will drive on the bows thus minimizing impact. I think it has limitations on the steeper terrain. I was very impressed with the equipment my neighbor used the minimized impact.
Bill Harsey
02-10-2008, 11:41
Hollis,
Ground compression and roads are long time big issues when logging because compacted ground does not let new trees grow very well.
For while rules required rubber tired skidders over tracked crawlers (Cats) when logging on the ground. This has switched back and forth a few times depending on soil types.
The very first thing I thought of seeing the Timberjack walking machine is that there is no "rolled road" compression of the soil.
Here are the southeastern facts of growing pine timber.
13 years from planting seedlings to the first thinning cut.
20 years from planting seedlings to the first logging cut.
25-30 years from planting seedlings to the final clear cut and then start again.
Bill,
You can see we have a very fast growing rate down here due to the sandy soil and annual rainfall. Also the land is mostly rolling hills from South Carolina to east Texas so no exotic equipment is needed.
The machine shown in the picture and the other cutters used in the logging business have lowered injuries and increased production, you don't have to get them out of jail on Monday morning.
clapdoc sends.
NousDefionsDoc
02-10-2008, 15:55
I saw one of those working here a while back - man that thing sure does a day's work!
You guys should check this out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6uaDaS3usc and no it did not come from George Lucas's studios.
Here's the prototype. :D