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Ret10Echo
01-31-2008, 11:58
The media.... Anyhow, the full report is available through the web link, but it is a 7Mb pdf file.

Some light reading in the departures lounge....

R10

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US military may not be ready for attack By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press

The U.S. military isn't ready for a catastrophic attack on the country, and National Guard forces don't have the equipment or training they need for the job, according to a report.

Even fewer Army National Guard units are combat-ready today than were nearly a year ago when the Commission on the National Guard and Reserves determined that 88 percent of the units were not prepared for the fight, the panel says in a new report released Thursday.

The independent commission is charged by Congress to recommend changes in law and policy concerning the Guard and Reserves.

The commission's 400-page report concludes that the nation "does not have sufficient trained, ready forces available" to respond to a chemical, biological or nuclear weapons incident, "an appalling gap that places the nation and its citizens at greater risk."

"Right now we don't have the forces we need, we don't have them trained, we don't have the equipment," commission Chairman Arnold Punaro said in an interview with The Associated Press. "Even though there is a lot going on in this area, we need to do a lot more. ... There's a lot of things in the pipeline, but in the world we live in — you're either ready or you're not."

In response, Air Force Gen. Gene Renuart, chief of U.S. Northern command, said the Pentagon is putting together a specialized military team that would be designed to respond to such catastrophic events.

"The capability for the Defense Department to respond to a chemical, biological event exists now," Renuart told the AP. "It, today, is not as robust as we would like because of the demand on the forces that we've placed across the country. ... I can do it today. It would be harder on the (military) services, but I could respond."

Over the next year, Renuart said, specific active duty, Guard and Reserve units will be trained, equipped and assigned to a three-tiered response force totaling about 4,000 troops. There would be a few hundred first responders, who would be followed by a second wave of about 1,200 troops that would include medical and logistics forces.

The third wave, with the remainder of that initial 4,000 troops, would include aircraft units, engineers, and other support forces, depending on the type of incident.

Punaro, a retired Marine Corps major general, had sharp criticism for Northern Command, saying that commanders there have made little progress developing detailed response plans for attacks against the homeland.

"NorthCom has got to get religion in this area," said Punaro. He said the military needs to avoid "pickup game" type responses, such as the much-criticized federal reaction to Hurricane Katrina, and put in place the kind of detailed plans that exist for virtually any international crisis.

He also underscored the commission's main finding: the Pentagon must move toward making the National Guard and Reserves an integral part of the U.S. military.

The panel, in its No. 1 recommendation, said the Defense Department must use the nation's citizen soldiers to create an operational force that would be fully trained, equipped and ready to defend the nation, respond to crises and supplement the active duty troops in combat.

Pointing to the continued strain on the military, as it fights wars on two fronts, the panel said the U.S. has "no reasonable alternative" other than to continue to rely heavily on the reserves to supplement the active duty forces both at home and abroad.

Using reserves as a permanent, ready force, the commission argued, is a much more cost effective way to supplement the military since they are about 70 percent cheaper than active duty troops.

Asked how much it would cost to implement the panel's recommendations, Punaro said it will take billions to fully equip the Guard. The commission is going to ask the Congressional Budget Office to do a cost analysis, he said.

In perhaps its most controversial recommendation, the panel again said that the nation's governors should be given the authority to direct active-duty troops responding to an emergency in their states. That recommendation, when it first surfaced last year, was rebuffed by the military and quickly rejected by Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

"I believe we're going to wear him down," said Punaro.

Renuart, however, said he believes it is unlikely that Gates will reverse himself. Renuart said he's talked to a number of state leaders on the matter, and most don't want full command of active duty troops — to include their care, feeding, discipline and logistics demands. Instead, he said, governors want to know that in a crisis, their needs will be met.

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http://www.cngr.gov/Final%20Report/CNGR%20Final%20Report.pdf

Pete
01-31-2008, 12:27
....The U.S. military isn't ready for a catastrophic attack on the country, and National Guard forces don't have the equipment or training they need for the job, according to a report......The commission's 400-page report concludes that the nation "does not have sufficient trained, ready forces available" to respond to a chemical, biological or nuclear weapons incident, "an appalling gap that places the nation and its citizens at greater risk."..............

"Right now we don't have the forces we need, we don't have them trained, we don't have the equipment," commission Chairman Arnold Punaro said in an interview with The Associated Press. "Even though there is a lot going on in this area, we need to do a lot more. ... There's a lot of things in the pipeline, but in the world we live in — you're either ready or you're not.".....]

Folks

I'm going to say that there will never be enough. Our country will never be completely covered until there is a cop on every corner and a HAZMAT battalion with every volunteer fire department in the country.

The argument is on what point we say "Enough is enough, if it happens we'll deal with it the best we can." This whole issue is becoming a pork barrel of the biggest sort. More money - more money - more money.

Sorry - I believe in "If you hit us we'll take out you and a few of your most dear cultural spots."

Pete

Ret10Echo
01-31-2008, 13:20
Folks

I'm going to say that there will never be enough. Our country will never be completely covered until there is a cop on every corner and a HAZMAT battalion with every volunteer fire department in the country.

The argument is on what point we say "Enough is enough, if it happens we'll deal with it the best we can." This whole issue is becoming a pork barrel of the biggest sort. More money - more money - more money.

Sorry - I believe in "If you hit us we'll take out you and a few of your most dear cultural spots."

Pete

Concur...alarmist media....and the balance between liberty and security...

Firebeef
01-31-2008, 14:00
Strangely enough, we weren't ready for WWII, yet somehow, we made up for lost time and eventually won the war....with a military force (conspricpted of course) 8 times larger than we have today.

Strangely enough, the Gulf and Atlantic coasts have been buffeted by hurricanes since time began. New Orleans in particular had been flooded somewheres around 22 or 23 times in her history, 6 times of which were at least the magnitude of Katrina. Yet somehow the FEDERAL GOV'T should have MADE the Louisiana NG MAKE the citizens of the crescent city evacuate? (Anyone with any ties to Louisiana knows what a ludicrous idea that would be). Maybe next time, we can all revel in the media frenzy when our armed and locked and loaded NG and USAR troops are rousting pajama clad citizens ...at gunpoint... out of their houses as the nanny state Fed task force enforces an evacuation order. I'm sure the media and the ACLU would just LOVE that.

Pete is right.... for some people, it will NEVER be enough, until the Government controls every aspect of our lives.

No, it isn't wrong to question the readiness of our Forces. No, it isn't unpatriotic to look at past failures to see where we erred so as not to do it again. It is both wrong and unpatriotic to continually chip away at anything and everything the Government does or doesn't do. As Pete pointed out, it won't be enough til there's a cop on every corner, etc.

rant off

jatx
01-31-2008, 17:53
Folks need to stop thinking of the ARNG as first responders. Our training and structure just don't fit with that model.

B219
01-31-2008, 19:31
Folks need to stop thinking of the ARNG as first responders. Our training and structure just don't fit with that model.

NG is pretty quick... but I concur, if we're the "first response" in your D-day plan...you're going to be waiting at least 12-24 hrs.

...it's a big machine, once it gets rolling, it kicks ass.

AngelsSix
01-31-2008, 22:03
The reserve in the AF seems to do pretty well IMHO. We cops are required to be up and running 48 hours.....to leave the country. I have no idea about Conus. I always keep my 'D' bags packed and ready to go. After Sept 11, you never know when you will get a call. I know that there are several ANG foks here at the schoolhouse right now that have gotten a phone call and had to report in a few hours time. We might not all have the equiptment at each individual unit, but together we can pull it together.
I skimmed the article, but it seems to me that someone is trying to make a name for themselves:

In response, Air Force Gen. Gene Renuart, chief of U.S. Northern command, said the Pentagon is putting together a specialized military team that would be designed to respond to such catastrophic events. (read: I am looking to make a position for myself when I retire).

"The capability for the Defense Department to respond to a chemical, biological event exists now," Renuart told the AP. "It, today, is not as robust as we would like because of the demand on the forces that we've placed across the country. ... I can do it today. It would be harder on the (military) services, but I could respond."

What is with the "I" stuff, does he honestly think he is the only one in this game?? Wow. I can understand that he seems to think the military is the only response to a large incident, but we have so many fed, state and local agencies that would be responding, it would just be a pain in the arse if the military showed up. Some of these agencies have much better training and resources than the local reaerve and NG units.

Pete
02-01-2008, 05:15
This is a big country.

Stop and think - just what kind of damage would a tactical nuke or dirty bomb do? Not much. Sure it would be bad at ground zero and contamination would spread with the wind - but overall, not that much.

We blasted away in the S/W during the 50s and those giant ants never did over run the country.:D The local cops and a few troops handled it.:D OK, you had to see the movie.

The damage will be done by the shock and panic of the sheeple. The MSM will the sheeple drivers. At the front of the pack will be the Democrats waving the white flag.

Razor
02-01-2008, 10:54
We blasted away in the S/W during the 50s and those giant ants never did over run the country.

I beg to differ. They assumed control of a major political party, and the queen is now running for president. All hail the the collective-All hail the Queen!

MAB32
02-01-2008, 16:23
Why not bring back the Civil Defense Plan again. Just like we had during the cold war. In this case however, they would also be trained to handle Chemical and Biological as well with Nuclear incidents and mass violence (we all know that it doesn't take much to set the average American who would survive such an incident to suddenly let their dark side of human nature to take affect.). I think that we can all agree that FEMA just seems to suck at everything they get their hands on.

Also, have retired Law Enforcement Officers (all) and retired military with various "needed" MOS's like MP, NBC, and Medical. Have each state resposible for the training under Federal Guidlines to a very small extent. Those "extents" would be the allowance for all to carry NG and ARES weapons once they have all properly been trained. In other words the Feds supply some of the guidelines and the states would have the option of more in depth training if neccessary and making it work would be additional cross-training such as working side by side with different MOS's or civillian training.

The NG and ARES's would be responsible for either back-up or to intervene if attacked by foreign invaders including ants.:D

Anybody think this would work?

jaytee
02-01-2008, 18:26
In response, Air Force Gen. Gene Renuart, chief of U.S. Northern command, said the Pentagon is putting together a specialized military team that would be designed to respond to such catastrophic events.

Hmmmm.......now where DID we put those specialized military teams that are designed to respond to such catastrophic events?:confused:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/wmd-cst.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usmc/cbirf.htm.

Ret10Echo
02-01-2008, 19:37
Hmmmm.......now where DID we put those specialized military teams that are designed to respond to such catastrophic events?:confused:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/wmd-cst.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usmc/cbirf.htm.

CCMRF = CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force

Pronounced: Sea-Smurf


The CCMRF consists of a rotational pool of active and reserve units from each of the services. In addition to their normal defense mission, when assigned to the CCMRF rotation, these units are kept on short notice to conduct a secondary mission of domestic consequence management should the need arise. The forces employed under JTF-CS would respond to the effects of a CBRNE incident after civilian resources have been exhausted and when the president or secretary of Defense approve.

Razor
02-02-2008, 00:17
I think that we can all agree that FEMA just seems to suck at everything they get their hands on.

Nope, I don't agree. Having spoken to many FEMA folks that were on the ground at Katrina, reality and what the MSM put forward were, surprise-surprise, two different worlds altogether.

Guy
02-04-2008, 15:42
Nope, I don't agree. Having spoken to many FEMA folks that were on the ground at Katrina, reality and what the MSM put forward were, surprise-surprise, two different worlds altogether.I was down there also...don't even get me started on the media.

I threatened to kick two reporters out of the vehicle if they didn't STFU!:D

Stay safe.

Ret10Echo
02-05-2008, 05:55
Nope, I don't agree. Having spoken to many FEMA folks that were on the ground at Katrina, reality and what the MSM put forward were, surprise-surprise, two different worlds altogether.

Working with the FEMA folks I have found like many other areas (don't look too far from where you are) the guys on the ground are doing good work. What is going on at the staff and HQ levels may be something else.

MSM was looking for a way to attack the POTUS. FEMA walked into the scope.