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18Ddave
01-26-2008, 20:37
Alright, here's a few questions I pose not just for the bravos but anyone with experience with to the various man marking ammo out there.


1. Has anyone messed with the new generation of Simuntions made in 556? If so are they good to go?

2. Do you have to use the conversion kits? From what I have been told you can still shoot the SIMS without the conversion kit (bolt) however you lose the full auto capacity. (Buddy team load the ammo in clearly marked mags for safety.)

3. Are they better than UTMs? (I have messed with UTM rounds and I am impressed by their accuracy. I have also been shot several times training some LEOs with them. They do hurt and can leave marks. Hense my Battle Cry.... "Not in the face! Not in the face!" )

thanx
dave

The Reaper
01-26-2008, 20:54
Shot a few hundred rounds of the 5.56 Sims, they are higher velocity, and require better protection.

I would use clearly marked mags, and be extra careful about live ammo. I have helped carry the dead body of a fellow SF soldier who was killed when live rounds were used instead of blanks.

The UTM has a metal pellet in the tip, and can penetrate the skin, as well as eye pro.

TR

Pete S
01-26-2008, 21:43
I've had problems in the past with the 9mm type feeding incorrectly and having one of the projectiles burst inside the chamber causing stuck cartridges. Compared to the 9mm cased simrounds these are much more reliable. Almost the same as firing live rounds.
I'm not sure if they work in full auto or burst mode in the M16/M4, but they make a linked version for the M249 the used the same simround.

Whenever we used them there were very strict magazine checks before and after. In some cases we weren't allowed to load our own mags.

NousDefionsDoc
01-26-2008, 21:45
I have used them wearing regular OG 107s, two balaclavas and Oakely assault goggles. You need good protection on your hands, really good gloves.

They can sting like a bitch, especially when you are wearing a Tshirt and shorts.:cool:

We used the conversion kits. Make sure you don't have live in the same county....

The accuracy is ok, especially for CQB.

Team Sergeant
01-27-2008, 07:51
I've also shot the sims and in my opinion the 5.56 only works in the CQB mode, accuracy sucks past 20 ft.

Forget making any "high value shots" using sims.

kgoerz
01-27-2008, 09:07
If you want to simulate a crew served Weapon (M249) a regular Paint Ball Gun works well. Be careful not to over do it. Paint Ball Guns have 100 times the fire power of a Sims Gun. We would usually keep the guy simulating a crew served weapon using Paint Ball in the turret or Blocking position.

Psywar1-0
01-29-2008, 09:01
We switched from Sim's to UTM recently and had a few problems.

One of the agents blew up his M4 as there were multiple UTM rounds stuck in the barrel, rodding off the range was not done and Kaboom.

For that reason alone I like the idea of having dedicated SIMs uppers and mags.

Also with pistol UTM you have to change out the extractor (At least on Sigs you do) and that does not make for an easy transition to Live fire.

18Ddave
01-29-2008, 15:35
Excellent replies guys. I really appreciate it.

The idea that they are 'just sims' can still get someone hurt or killed because of complacency or ignorance.

With that being said, since the newer technology of allowing you to shoot man marking rounds thru your existing no-sh-t go-to-war weapon and use of regular mags permits you to really 'train as you fight' by using pretty much the exact same things you will use in a real fight. You can't beat that.

Rest assured when we conduct this training exercise, I will be the safety nazi before and after to ensure nothing like the aforementioned happens.


thanx again,
dave

Team Sergeant
01-29-2008, 16:41
Excellent replies guys. I really appreciate it.

thanx again,
dave

There's a couple of us that answered that are Sims instructors......;)

You need help with something let us know.