Question on Disc replacement [Archive] - Professional Soldiers ®

grog18b

01-21-2008, 18:43

On the same note as the "Chronic lower back pain" thread...

My lower back has been getting much worse as of late. I have a very hard time getting to sleep, and if I do, I wake up at 0200-0300 because of the pain. It makes any task difficult, and it's hard to sit or stand for over half an hour at a time. I can do things, like lifting and working, but if I do something strenuous, I pay for it with back spasms later. I hate taking any meds, but need them frequently to reduce the pain enough to get to sleep.
I just had another MRI and when compared to last years, My L5 disc was bulging 3mm into my spine, and the MRI now shows it at 9mm. I've been looking into getting the disc replaced, and wanted to ask if anyone here has any experience with either having one replaced, or replacing one?
I've never had any type of surgery, and I'm set to retire from my LEO career in 6 months. To say that going under the knife concerns me is an understatement.
I have an appointment to talk to the surgeon that would do the procedure on Feb 20th, and will be making a decision then on what to do.

Thanks Brothers in advance, GROG

MiTTMedic

01-21-2008, 19:04

I'm assuming that you have done any and all therapy/rehab before coming to the OR. After being in the Physical Therapy realm for 23+ years, I can tell you a few things. Truthfully, I figured I would be reading more than writing on this forum, but this is in my lane.
#1: A very small percentage of disc bulges (HNP's) require surgery. A good therapist can and will reduce the odds of the scalpel. It takes time and compliance on the part of the patient to be successful. You didn't mention pain in your leg from this, but I can assume you know what I'm talking about.
#2: Disc "replacements" are still in the experimental phase, and prognosis is not good. Problem is that they cannot regenerate themselves after micro damage, so they don't last long. If it were me, I would run & hide if the doc suggested it.
#3: What the doc should offer you is a partial or full discectomy. A full discectomy requires fusion of the two vertebrae. Sounds worse than it is. Most do very well.
I wish you luck, and let me know if you want more info. I'm not a surgeon, but I can advise you on the rehab end. It's hard to suggest much at this point because I don't have all the info about your case.

grog18b

01-21-2008, 20:13

Thanks Mitt, I've done the PT route many times, for many durations, and could probably teach it if I had to ;) , and have tried numerous other treatments, and different types of PT. (Everything short of the holistic stuff and acupuncture stuff)

The disc started getting bad and muscles started spasming 6 years ago now. I was at the time in a good fitness program myself, and was in great shape. I woke up one night and it felt like my hip was out of joint, and in severe pain. No idea why, or how it happened. Don't remember doing anything that would have caused it. The muscles were seized up and I couldn't get out of bed. Doc sent me to a chiropractor, and he did the crack thing, and it still hurt like hell. After some meds and PT, the pain went away, and it returned to semi-normal. I went to PT off and on for 3 months at a time, many times, and would then get back into my own PT routine when I felt better. It seemed to relieve the problems at first. There were a few episodes where the spasms returned. One of them when I was bending over the sink washing my newborn daughter. Glad the wife was there to get her. I figure it was just a bad angle, and with the weight of her, I crumpled to the floor, and couldn't move for a couple hours. Another incident happened when I was walking in deep snow, on a hunting trip. Same thing, back seized up, and crumpled, crawled 500' back to the house and lay in the doorway for 5 hours until the wife got back, and drug me to the car, and a trip to the hospital.

I've tried the chiropractic route, and even tried the Lordex spine decompression. It felt good at first, then after a week, the muscles were spasming so bad on the table, it was very difficult for me to get up afterwords. I could live with it, if it were only a matter of doing PT and feeling better. Since the disc got worse, PT aggravates it and the muscles will just lock up or spasm if I try to do much at all. Even trying to go slow, stretching and using stim, and heat, it relaxes it for an hour at the most, then it's right back to hurting. I use flexarall and Hydrocodone 10/650 when the pain gets unbearable, and hate using it at all. It's been a rough 6 years, and the last year has been the worst. Big problem with the meds is, I can't take them and work, so my department says if I "choose" to take them I can't work within 8 hrs and if I do, I have to use my sick leave... So I can get relief using meds when I get home, to get to sleep, but have to be in pain all day. (Another reason to avoid the meds)

As far as the discectomy goes, I have two brother-in-laws that had that done, one down in Bethesda MD at the back and spine institute. His was the worst, and they had to go in twice, to remove more disc pieces from his spine. (I guess it shattered?) He is laid up now, and they just told him that due to scar tissue, they can't operate on him again. The other in-law is almost in the same boat, and is back to the pain. They felt better at first, and recovered pretty fast, but they are both in rough shape now, and they are 37 and 40 yrs old. I don't know if I like the idea of fusion, as I've heard it is hard on the discs above and/or below the fusion. My L4 is already bad and bulging. I think a fusion would just move the problem up in my particular case, that's why I was looking at the replacement route.

Unfortunately, I know I need to get something done, just concerned about being able to function afterwards...

I value everyone's opinions, and thanks much for your input. GROG

...oh, and I attribute all this to too many parachute jumps... :D
Haven't lost my sense of humor yet.

CDRODA396

01-21-2008, 21:15

I had a buldging disc between L5/S1. At that time they only had one BackButcher working at Womack on Bragg, and he did rotations between Walter Reed and Womack. I hurt it in Iraq, returning in May, and had a rotation in Sept for AStan. Since I needed something done right then, they let me go out to Moore Regional Hospital in Pinehurst. Cant remember the dude's name, but when I researched him, he was recognized as one of the top 5 BackButchers in the country.

This is what he told me then. There is a range of options for a bad disc...do nothing and pray, physical therapy, steroids, micro-discetomy, full blown discetomy (micro being done with the scope, through a 3/4" incision, full being through a big incision) and fusion.

According to him, the only major difference between the treatments is how fast you get relief (do nothing very slow, fusion immediate)...BUT, in the long term, whatever you do you're screwed, in 10-15 years, no matter which one you opt for, you are going to be sucking.

So, I went with micro-discetomy and six weeks to the day from surgery was unloading a C-17 in Khandahar...4 and half years later, I'm wishing I hadnt chased quite so many jumps!

And thats all I know about that, dont know if it helps or not, either way, I FEEL your pain daily brother, and wish you the best of luck whatever you decide to do.

Kyobanim

01-22-2008, 04:39

#2: Disc "replacements" are still in the experimental phase

Only if you're an insurance company. They'll do anything to get out of taking care of their clients.

The procedure has been approved by the FDA for 7 years. They have been doing this surgery in Europe for over 25 years. I have researched this exstensively as my wife's surgeon wants to do this.

Just make sure the Doc has done this before and ask lots of questions.

Eagle5US

01-22-2008, 05:40

Sorry Grog,

Outside my lane Brother...I too have significant back pain, yes it keeps me up at night and prevents me from standing for long periods of time (I HATE standing still in the OR for hours).

The only thing I have to offer you is plank and bridging exercises in your interim to help in building your core muscles. They have helped me considerably.

Some other things to "investigate"...
-"reinflation" of your disc
- fusion (as previously stated)
- a good pain management specialist for direct disc injection therapy

Back surgery traditionally has about a 10% chance of making things better, a 40% chance of things staying the same, and a 50% chance of making things worse. Time, and your body's unique response to the procedure, will be the only indicator.

Good luck in whatever decision you make.

Eagle

grog18b

01-22-2008, 06:14

Thanks all. I'm currently in another physical therapy program, to maintain and strengthen until my appointment on the 20th. Thanks Eagle 5 and CDR. I have some research to do on the re-inflation and want to be educated prior to my visit. The Doc I have the appointment with has done the replacements before, many times. The micro-discetomy might be a better option. I know if I can get that 9mm removed, the pressure would be off the spine. Re-inflation sounds interesting too. (Be nice to get back to 6'2"...) With looking at my MRI, it doesn't appear that there would be too many options. The disc looks like it's overhanging the bone below it like snow off a house roof... Kinda curls around the bone. It even looks like it hurts. (My doc looked at it when I brought the films in and said "Holy S*&^") Guess that means it's bad? :rolleyes:

I know even minor relief would help, and as a co-worker said when I described my symptoms "How can you live like that?" I'll keep you all updated on the decision and progress. Hopefully I'll be in the 10% that this stuff helps. The odds sound pretty bad, but I guess the only thing worse than I feel now, is not being able to feel at all, or not being able to walk. Thanks again Bros. GROG

Eagle5US

01-22-2008, 06:20

Let us know how things progress for you. We are all family.

Eagle

swatsurgeon

01-22-2008, 16:50

Just to add my 2 cents.....I do the anterior exposures for the neurosurgeons. We did a study of our own patients and this procedure (see URL) makes for some really happy people post op.

http://www.spineuniverse.com/displayarticle.php/article508.html

good luck....just another way to offer relief and ask questions to be a better informed patient.

ss

Eagle5US

01-22-2008, 16:54

Just to add my 2 cents.....I do the anterior exposures for the neurosurgeons.

Damn...is there ANYTHING that you DON'T do:D

Eagle

swatsurgeon

01-23-2008, 06:37

Damn...is there ANYTHING that you DON'T do:D

Eagle

Eagle,
I don't get to do what you do, what you've done (and where you've done it...hush, hush)............. but I'd love to try!!

ss

grog18b

01-23-2008, 13:19

The Reaper

01-23-2008, 14:07

What is your local VA hospital like, and do you have the back injury listed as a service connected disability?

TR

clapdoc

01-23-2008, 14:51

Thanks to a drunk driver I have had 2 spinal fusion surgeries in my neck. c-5/6 and 6/7. The docs replaced the disc with bone out of my hip. To tell the honest truth, the bone being removed hurt a lot worse that than the neck surgery.
The docs tell me that the lower you go on the back, the worse any surgery is.

I still ride horses, bale hay and do farm work but i am about 80% of what i used to be.

just get good advice from more than 1 surgeon.

clapdoc sends.

grog18b

01-23-2008, 15:44

TR The closest VA hospital is in Wilkes-Barre, about 2.5 hrs from me. I haven't heard fantastic things about it... Unfortunately, not a service connected disability. When I ETSd the Army in 1990, I was in fantastic shape, and maintained it throughout my LEO career, until the disc went out. So, either I have to look at other options the insurance will cover, or sell a few kids... :) 20 grand is a pretty big horse pill to swallow, especially with retiring in 6 months.

ReconDoc242

01-28-2008, 21:10

I used to be a surgical instructor at NuVasive, so my view is slightly prejudiced towards their products but here is my advise:
As it has been said prior, you will probably need to have a spinal decompression with fusion(that is an assumption, the diagnosis really should be made by a qualified orthopedic or neuro surgeon)
There are various companies that out on the market with proven products, and to tell you the truth, there is very little difference between products. The main difference is in the surgical approach.
Most decompression surgeries are done either via posterior approaches such as TLIF(trans-laminar interbody fussion) or PLIF(posterior laminar interbody fusion), or anterior approaches such as the ALIF(anterior interbody fussion). I will give you the pros and cons of these surgeries.
1. PLIF- this is the most common procedure and easiest for surgeons to perform. Unfortunately it is the most aggressive. Usually a 3-8in incision(size will depend on number of levels requiring fusion) is made directly over the spinous process. Then both laminas of the effected superior and inferior vertebrae are cut through and the spinous process is excised. Then they move the dura out of the way to get access to your disc space. After the disc is removed a cage is put in. Rods and pedicle/facet screw are then put in, and boom, your done. Hospital stay is usually a week. Recovery 6months to a year.
2.TLIF-this has gained alot of popularity in recent years. It is similar to the PLIF, but only one side of the lamina is cut and the spinous process is not excised. It is usually done through a minimally invasive approach and requires 2-4in incision, just off the midline of the spinous process. Hospital stay 3days to a week. Recovery 6months. Also, This surgery will usually require supplemental hardware such as pedicle screws and rods.
3. ALIF- this is done through the abdomen with the patient laying on his back, and requires the assistance of a general surgeon for the initial approach. He will begin my making a midline 8 in incision in the abdomen. He will go through the abdominal muscles. Then he will carefully move the peritonium over to the side. Now for the dangerous part... He will have to lift up the aorta off the anterior aspect of the spine. Now the disc space is accessible. The surgeon will then remove the affected disc and place a cage with some sort or an artificial disc. hospital stay time is 1-2weeks. Recovery time is 6months to 1yr.
4. XLIF(extreme lateral interbody fusion)- This is the newest surgery in the horizon and has excellent results so far. It is done with the patient laying on his side. The approach usually falls between the illiac crest and 12th rib. It is minimally invasive, requiring only a 1-2in incision. A set of dialators is put in to safely guide the retractor thru the psoas muscle. The disc space is the access and the affected disc is removed. Then a cage is put in for fusion. The hospital stay is 1 day since the is less then 50ml of blood loss. The recovery time is 6-8 weeks. The downside, its expensive.
As far as the advice about not getting treated for an illness, its simply bad advice. My friend you will only get worse if you do not get the proper treatment. Thats my .02 cents. Best of luck.
-Carlos

grog18b

01-29-2008, 06:36

Thanks Carlos, much appreciated. Some of those options sound like they were developed by the Taliban... :D Actually got the cold sweats on reading the first one, but felt better by the last. Being shot sounds better than a few of them. Whatever way, sounds like Grog isn't going to be a happy camper any time soon... :( I'll advise on what the Doc says on the 20th. GROG

grog18b

02-22-2008, 19:01

Well... Had my meeting with the Doc. He checked the latest MRI out, and seems the majority of my pain is coming from the degeneration of the bone to the rear and above the bad lower disc. He recommended the ALIF, and advised he has had a lot of success with this procedure, and that, by the time it affects any other disc, there will be new stuff available. (I went to Bajwa in Johnson City NY, if anyone here knows him.) Seems he's a pretty good Doc, and has done the actual disc replacements, and is on the cutting edge with the new techniques. He says hospital stay is 2-7 days, with a 8 week "gimp" time, then a 6-12 month to full recovery time. He gave me a book on the surgery, and... Well... None of it looks all too pleasant. Apparently, they gotta hook all sorts of hoses, and whatnot, to keep the engine running (or something) then I have the option of using my own stored blood, in case I need a transfusion, or someone elses... Never donated outside the military. Then I have the option of using some sort of bone protein for the graft, or having them take bone outta my arse. So, if I go with that option, I will have a sore back, front, and arse.
Good lord...
For the bad part... I have 5 months to retirement, the Doc recommends the operation soon, as my present condition is a little better than being hit by a truck every day, I have only two months of sick leave left, and a triple homicide trial coming up in July... I hate to let the guys I work with down, but I really have to get this thing taken care of. Every day is like a new experiment in the pain category. (Doc says most of the pain is from the bones that surround L5 grating against each other... Yes, it is painful)
I have a pretty high pain tolerance (once stood at attention on a fire ant hill, and paid for it later, and also ran a 5 mile run with a sprained ankle) so I'm used to dealing with pain. Major problem I have is... Being put unconscious, in a hospital, and being out of control. Funny as that may sound to some, it concerns me greatly. It's the reason I avoid alcohol, and avoided drugs all my life, until this back thing came around. I guess I'm also concerned about not being in control of my future too. The doc went over the possible "boo-boo's" and I'm hoping I don't end up on his blooper reel and have to lay in a bed for the rest of my life. Guess it's pretty scary stuff... I have to schedule the surgery on Monday, and he said they can get me in, in two or three weeks. (Another summer, shot in the keister)
Any advice from the brotherhood on dealing with pre-operative whatnot?
Thanks in advance, and yes I know... :boohoo Sucks to be me...

Red Flag 1

02-22-2008, 19:12

swpa19

02-23-2008, 16:27

GROG:

In 1962 the 1/4 Ton Utility Vehicle M-151 was introduced USAREUR wide. I had to "re-qualify" with this vehicle. Dont know why they couldnt just have added it to my licensce. These little devils had a very bad habit of just rolling over. Mine did. Flipped me out then rolled over top of me. The hood latched against the windshield, then struck me from left shoulder to right hip.

Bottom line here is: I opted not to have any surgery done. BAD mistake. As Ive gotten older I regret it on a weekly basis.

Do what you can now before it degenerates so badly surgery WONT help.

The Reaper

02-23-2008, 17:16

GROG:
Bottom line here is: I opted not to have any surgery done. BAD mistake. As Ive gotten older I regret it on a weekly basis.

Do what you can now before it degenerates so badly surgery WONT help.

I respectfully disagree.

I declined career ending back surgery in 1986, and did just fine.

I met a guy who had the back surgery my ortho recommended to me three years later, and he was crippled and medically retired.

I declined meniscectomies on both knees in 1996, and did just fine.

The day comes when I am in the shape Grog is in, THEN I might have the surgeries.

Till then, I will kick that can down the road.

TR

Red Flag 1

02-24-2008, 08:38

if it worth saying, it will be quoted.

grog18b

02-24-2008, 18:21

Thanks Guys. Doc mentioned the possibility of nerve damage if I put things off much longer. The disc is digging into the spinal cord, and the vertebrae are grinding each other on the opposite side. No win, either way I look at it. Either I remain in constant pain, hopefully being able to get at least my 20 in, or I go for the surgery and roll the dice... Outlook is, either things improve, stay the same, get worse, or get much worse. The wife is all for it, as things for her, are bad too. I'd hate to see her in constant pain. GROG

Red Flag 1

02-25-2008, 13:02

if it worth saying, it will be quoted.

Red Flag 1

02-25-2008, 14:48

grog18b

02-26-2008, 15:18

Looks like I have to hold off on the surgery until April. The retirement folks worked it out, so I can use my earned leave, to the normal retirement date. Oh well, more dental stress fractures. I can hang for one more month. Gonna be a tough month though. Thanks again guys. GROG

grog18b

03-05-2008, 14:46

Surgery set for April 1st. I don't know if getting knifed on April Fools is a good or bad thing...

Red Flag 1

03-05-2008, 16:12

RF 1

grog18b

04-17-2008, 17:18

To advise the brotherhood, and all those who sent me well wishes, the surgery went very well. I was up and around that night, and spent 3 days in the hospital. I couldn't stand another night of the screaming and crying, so I asked (begged) the doc to let me go home. They sent me down to PT to show me the proper way to get into and out of bed, and climb steps... Apparently they showed me the wrong way to get out, as indicated by the pulled groin muscle. I then endured the 1.5 hour ride home in the wife's Liberty. I know every dip, pothole, bump and curve intametly... Got myself one of those fancy lift chairs so as to be able to get myself upright and prone without too much pain.

The recovery is going well, and the disc pain is gone. Only pain is from the incisions and a bit of tightness where they put in the screws and rod. (Now I have two... :D) I'm finally able to type a bit, so I thought I'd advise on my condition. Thanks all here for your support and help. It is much appreciated. GROG

Gypsy

04-17-2008, 18:44

Continued best wishes for a speedy recovery grog18b!

BravoAlpha

04-17-2008, 23:07

Thanks much guys. I have a lot to consider and research. Just discovered my insurance (Blue Shield) does not cover the disc replacement, as it's still considered experimental. :( (As the insurance nazi says "No disc for you.") They apparently started a 10 year study in 2004, and will make a determination after that. Whoo Hoo, another 6 years of pain, meds, or knife it out and fuse now. Hmmmmmm, decisions, decisions. The disc replacement is a 20 grand + procedure, so no way my poor soul is gonna come anywhere close. Last couple days it's gone downhill fast, and there are very few positions, sitting or lying that come close to "comfortable". I'll keep the research going, and appreciate the recommendations. GROG

Congrats Grog, on the successful operation.

I would, however, like to add this for anyone else in your position in the future. Unfortunately, I wasn't around to add my 2cents earlier in this conversation.

Yes, no insurance company will cover artificial disc replacements right off the bat. There is, however, a process of appeals set in place by my employer, DePuy Spine (a Johnson & Johnson company), to get the coverage. It usually takes about 9mo. The reason why insurance companies won't cover such a procedure is that, to them, there are other viable (less expensive) means. We are, as of now, the only company with an artificial disc that's actually FDA approved. The next in line is about 5yrs off. We also have the only disc that maintains full range of motion. In our eyes, fusion is a far alternative from total disc replacement. It is very often associated with adverse effects on adjacent levels.

There's many limiting factors, however, that dictate who is a candidate for an artificial disc. We have some of the most stringent. Such factors include Osteoporosis, Osteopenia, lumbar stenosis, no more than 3mm of Spondylolisthesis at the involved level, Isolated radicular compression syndromes, Pars defect, patient age consideration, lifestyle consideration, must be of lumbar region L4-S1, etc, the list goes on.

To anyone suffering from degenerating lumbar discs, and is likely to require future surgery, please as your doctor to look into the possibility of DePuy Spine's Charité Artificial Disc, or at least to contact a DePuy sales rep for education. As mentioned above, we have a very thorough process to obtain coverage that has yielded very positive results compared to fusion and other, non-FDA approved discs.

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/mda/docs/p040006.html

Wishing you a speedy recovery,
BA

charlietwo

04-17-2008, 23:58

My L5-S1 is also herniated and causing me more drama than I care to live with. I'm only 23 right now and I really do not want to spend the rest of my life in pain. After a few trips to the VA up here in North Chicago, they eventually gave me some vicodins (hydrocodone/acetominophen 5) so I could make it through work (which happens to be in a warehouse :rolleyes:). Now I'm up to eight pills a day, and I've already had two steroid injections with only temporary relief until I go back to work, then the pain comes back with a vengeance. I've been to a chiropractor for about 30 visits and I feel like I just wasted my money and time on that venture, simply due to the fact that a herniated disc is much more serious than everyday back pains.

I guess my main question is how much does my age change my options? I'm so tired of having to take pills everyday to make it through work and not be screaming on the inside from agony. The VA has been inefficient at best, and I've lost faith in their ability to fix me months ago.

Also, slightly off topic, what is a typical disability rating for this type of injury? I didn't have a specific injury that was documented in being the root of the herniation, and therefore I was outright denied a disability rating. I appealed this decision a few months ago, so it'll be a long time before I get a response. I'd just like to hear what other people have seen or heard percentage-wise in regards to herniated discs.

Grog- Godspeed in your recovery brother.
Thanks for all the advice and support guys.

grog18b

04-18-2008, 08:49

Thanks guys and gals.

Charlie2, One of the reasons they wanted me to put off my operation was because of my age. After the operation, they credit my age with my rehab being not so bad. What made me go for the surgery was something one of my fellow LEOs said after I described my symptoms to him. His statement was "I don't see how you can live like that..." That's when I made the decision to change things. The results of the surgery were described as "It could improve things, things will stay the same, or things would get worse."

I figured with the pain I was in, all the time, and the effect it had on my ability to enjoy any aspect of my life, plus my family having to take my pain into consideration when deciding to go on trips or just going somewhere or doing something... Basically, after 6 YEARS of drugs, physical therapy, lordex spine stretching therapy, chiropractors, injections, MRIs, x-rays, missing work, living in misery, limiting what I do, and having to do things that increased pain later... I just got tired of it. The side effects of the meds almost cost me my family. The wife had to take a few months away from me. We are now back together after I cut ALL meds off and started to return to being myself.

If you are going through all those meds, just to feel somewhat normal, I would HIGHLY recommend to you that something needs to change. Fortunately my decision to change things coincided with me having enough time and leave left that I can retire in June. I don't have to work anymore, which is fantastic. Surgery is usually the last resort. If you tried all the other options, it's time. I'm glad I did it, and things are slowly improving, and I have high hopes right now. The pain that I lived with for 6 years is gone. I know there is other pain right now, with the incisions, and my propensity for pulling muscles. (I pulled another hip muscle last night) But all in all, if I had the choice to make again, I would have done it 6 years ago. Why live in constant pain, when you can do something about it? I tried every other "cure" to this pain I could (except acupuncture and that homeopathic whatnot...) so it was time for me. So far, no regrets. Good luck to you C2, and thanks.

Thanks also BA. I looked into the replacement discs, but in my case, I really didn't have time to fight for it. My surgery had to coincide with my leave, and retirement in June. I had just enough leave to cover me from April 1st to June 14th, my retirement date. I also wanted it done while I was employed, so there would be no problems with insurance, from being employed, and the coverage we have when we retire. Also, it got me off the streets a few months earlier. Can't beat that... I would have hated to have waited, and been shot or something in my last month... :D So the time involved in fighting for the disc replacement would have thrown everything off time wise. GROG

zeke

04-18-2008, 09:21

charlietwo,
I am not a medical professional but I had a similar experience as yours. When I was 22 I had leg pain (sciatica) that was misdiagnosed for 10 months until I saw an orthopedic surgeon. He said I was young enough that physical therapy would work and it did. 11-12 years later the problem came back due to sitting for long periods of time at a desk and slacking on strengthening my core muscles.

I tried a chiropractor until I found out that the manipulation they do can make disc herniations worse. After another year of physcial therapy and stretching the leg pain wasn't going away so I elected to see another orthopedic surgeon and had a surgery done (microdiscectomy and partial laminotomy). I still have some leg pain since the nerve was pinched for so long but its getting better slowly. From all the people I talked to this surgery had a high success rate for people with leg pain from a L5-S1 herniation but was less successful if you only have back pain.

My advice would be don't wait much longer, see an orthopedic surgeon to see what they recommend, and see if the doc recommends strengthening your core muscles and start a stretching/yoga program that you'll most likely need to do the rest of your life.

This is what has worked for me.

charlietwo

04-18-2008, 21:20

I appreciate the advice... I'm definitely sick of living in pain. My biggest issue lies in maintaining a source of income to pay the bills. It sure would be nice if the VA wasn't a black hole of a bureaucracy :( Since they denied my disability claim, it has definitely made this process much more difficult. I've only been to the VA physical therapy twice and I had to cancel the next appointment due to scheduling problems. The icing on the cake was the people who cancel appointments are outsourced to some other company and they can't reschedule appointments! Great work, bureaucracy.

Anyway, I'll put the violin back now... hopefully I can get my shit straight and quit bitching long enough to get my back fixed and find a decent job :D Thanks again!

out

BravoAlpha

04-18-2008, 23:35

My L5-S1 is also herniated and causing me more drama than I care to live with. I'm only 23 right now and I really do not want to spend the rest of my life in pain....
...I guess my main question is how much does my age change my options?...

charlietwo,

Two ways to answer that.

A. At your age, with your presumed lifestyle, if you are in need of immediate replacement an artificial disc is a good option.

B. If you can function/tolerate, it'd be commonly advised to pursue non-invasive alternatives until you cannot.

As far as an artificial disc is concerned, you must be an adult (ie mature bone). Your lifestyle must be active enough to aid you through the recovery. Half of the success with an artificial disc is the patient's willingness/ability to stay active through the pain. Therefore, if you were "geriatric", an artificial disc would be of no benefit.

Last note, you will always, for the remainder of your life, whether you get an artificial disc or a fusion, experience at least some pain. Bad news, but that's how it goes with anything below T1.

grog18b

05-15-2008, 06:42

Red Flag 1

05-15-2008, 09:23

if it worth saying, it will be quoted.

Gypsy

05-15-2008, 18:58

Glad to hear things are going so well for you grog! Best wishes for a continued and swift recovery.

grog18b

08-28-2008, 23:01

Well... I ended the physical therapy (at the PT place) a week ago. The recovery is going very, very well. It gets sore if I do too much, and sometimes it's hard to sleep, but, overall, things are a vast improvement over the way I felt prior to the surgery. I am up to running a mile, walking a mile, doing 20min of arm bike, 10min of rowing machine, and some light weights. All in all, the worst part was the pulled groin muscle. The scars healed up nicely, and I can do things around the house again. Would I do it again? If I were where I was then, hell yes. If you are living in constant pain, with very little relief, living a life of misery... Get er done. Do research on your Doc prior to going in, to make sure he's up on his stuff. I lucked out with mine. Johnson City NY, Dr Bajawa, did a fantastic job on me. I highly recommend him. I am now :lifter thanks to him, and his staff, plus the people at Procare PT in Troy PA.

I have started my own PT program, (My program is much more intense than the PT place...) and things are improving in leaps and bounds. Even though I still don't do much leaping, or bounding anymore. Thanks all here for your help and support. GROG

Gypsy

08-29-2008, 13:50

That is really fantastic news, so glad to hear you are progressing so well!

Red Flag 1

08-29-2008, 19:32

RF 1

grog18b

05-01-2009, 07:44

My yearly update... Next disc in line is starting to get bad. Doc said it might last two years, but would need something done. Well, it's geetting to be that time again. I have an appointment on the 4th of May to see what the options are. Hopefully, they will have more options available than fusion, not that the first one was that bad. The recovery was not fun, but preferable to pain 24/7.

I managed to get up to 3 miles every other day, with the arm bike, stationary bike, and dumbells. Oh well... Nothing like starting all over again, again.

grog18b

06-16-2009, 19:47

Got the good news and relief after the visit with the Doc. He went over the new MRIs and xrays and apparently... I'm "overdoing it"... :lifter

Sooooooo, looks like MORE machine shop time, LESS physical training. (after all, my war days are over, unless they come for those guns I lost in the flood...
;):D ) So, to those with recent lower back operations, go easy on the PT. I gotta remember I'm not 21 anymore.

alright4u

06-17-2009, 05:54

Well, it's been 6 weeks now, and things are slowly improving. I saw the Doc yesterday, and he had a few x-rays taken and went over them with me. Man, those screws are LONG! They go almost all the way through the vertebrea. I have screws above and below the area where the bad disc was. He then put in two flexible rods. It gets swollen around the right side if I do too much, but other than that, I am slowly getting back to normal. I don't need as much meds, and it's getting easier to bend. I can put on my own shoes and socks now, and PT is getting easier. I actually rode the tractor for a half hour last week. Like I said, I wish I had done this a while ago. Pretty soon I'll be :lifter
GROG

Sounds like you had the rods, plates, and pedicle screws?

Had that done in early 92. One of the things that helped was fly fishing in waist deep water with Sims Goretex waders on. The water helped the back, plus all the walking kept my legs in shape. I also did a lot of swimming.

I hope you are much better. You will probably have limits placed on how much weight you can routinely lift and how much on occasion. If not, I would ask? Now, they did not have flexible rods when I had the surgery. I think they would help.