View Full Version : Springfield's M1A
CosaNostraUSMC
12-18-2007, 22:21
I've been looking at the M1A lately. Springfield offers it in a number of variations. While I have experience behind the one I used as a DM, one could hardly classify our DMR as an M1A...let alone an M14 of sorts. She was definitely a different kind of animal all together.
Anyone have use with the "civilian" market M1As, off the shelf from Springfield... Pros and Cons?
Looking for a good semi-auto for hunting and the range, and CA is not a black-rifle supporting state, so I came up with this instead. I know... I know... it might be less headache in the long run to just up and move.
I have two, one is a socom model (shorty) the other is similiar to the one I was originally issued. I really like the rifle. Maybe I'll post photos later. Not sure on Cali's laws with magazines etc. I have 20 and 30 rd mags for mine along with a 5rd mag.
I might be in Santa Cruz next week.
H.
82ndtrooper
12-19-2007, 00:43
I own the Springfield M1A/M14 SOCOM II and it's possibly one the worst purchases that I have ever made concerning firearms.
Not because the M1A/M14 is a bad rifle, just that the SOCOM II is a rather funky set up with a 16" barrel and the muzzle blast off that thing is wicked. I don't mind recoil, but I get more dirt and dust flying up in front me in the prone position than any other rifle. I have to actually wait for the dust to settle to see through the Aimpoint before taking another shot down range. And it's affectionatley known as the "Cheesgratter" by Air.177:D
Any of the standard M1A/M14's by Springfield are great rifles. Just stay away from the 16" barrel.
Just my experience.
Agreed that the SOCOM and SOCOM II is a beast to bear with as far as muzzle blast. I almost bought one but was fortunate to play with it beforehand.
I own an M1A National Match and I have listed that to be one of the few guns that I will never part with. It is by far one of the best semi-auto .308s that I've had the pleasure of owning and shooting. I have only put around 200-220 rounds through it as a result in my attempt to keep it nice for a while.
I shot it side by side on a range with Clint from Fulton Armory and it made me look good next to him and one of his custom builds. He of course ran circles around me and could with a slingshot, but it held it's own through the day.
A stock M1A is worth the money, the higher priced ones do IMO get better shooting as the price goes up.
FWIW
I'll try to post pics tonight if I can find my camera.
CDRODA396
12-19-2007, 06:52
I did have a National Match M1A (improved barrel but not the Heavy Barrel, trigger job and better iron sights, glass bedded...all by Springfield) and loved the weapon. Had an ART IV 3X9 scope on a Springfield mount...really nice set up.
Unfortunately someone helped themselves to it while I was on my first JCET to Africa along with a SIG 229. Of course I now have a gun safe but still miss that rifle.
It will serve you well, very reliable and plenty accurate right out of the box. I think you'll really enjoy one.
Goggles Pizano
12-19-2007, 09:04
I too own one but preferred the plain jane, iron sight, walnut stock model...and I would not trade it for all the tea in China! Very accurate, very dependable; just a whole lot of fun to shoot. :)
....... And it's affectionatley known as the "Cheesgratter" by Air.177:D
It's actually the Nine Pound Cheese Grater, unless of course you have made a series of bad decisions and ended up with one of the "extended rail" models in which case, you have a 12 pound Cheese Grater (before accessories) ;)
Good Times,
Blake
The Reaper
12-19-2007, 11:10
It's actually the Nine Pound Cheese Grater, unless of course you have made a series of bad decisions and ended up with one of the "extended rail" models in which case, you have a 12 pound Cheese Grater (before accessories) ;)
Good Times,
Blake
Blake:
LOL. Have to agree with you there.
Looks cool as hell and has a high CDI factor, though.:D
TR
Back to the original topic, The M14/M1A series are decent rifles, but I have only ever shot one or two that actually fit me (and both had either GI M14 E2 or McMillan E2 stocks). In my experience (admittedly limited) the M14/M1A in it's standard wood/fiberglass military stock configuration is an excessively hard weapon to mount an optic on and maintain zero or achieve any kind of cheek-weld at all.
I hear from folks all the time wanting to know what is the best way to mount an optic on their M1A with GI type stock and there really isn't one. I see pictures all the time of deployed military folks with foam insulation, mousepads, folded up towels, and duct tape piled on the comb of the stock of their M14 "DMR" rifles trying to get a cheek-weld.
There are some supplemental "saddle" type cheek-pieces that can be attached to a standard stock via cross bolts, as well as after market stock systems that are available such as the Sage, Troy, VLTOR, and JAE-100 all of which make using an optic more comfortable and easier but at the expense of added weight and significant $$$. I had a Springfield "Loaded model" a couple years back, and it was a nice enough rifle with nice iron sights, but it really didn't seem to fit me very well (but the M1 Garand feels fine, go figure)
Basically, If I have to have a semi-auto .308 rifle, I'll take a FAL. If I need a Quasi-precision, intermediate to long range .308 gun with an optic, I'll practice a whole bunch with my bolt gun, or I'll borrow Dad's '60 and create a beaten zone.
/rant
Good times,
Blake
The Reaper
12-19-2007, 12:04
I shoot or have shot all of the 7.62 Sturmgewehrs, the M-14/M1A, FAL, H&K G-3, the SR-25, AR-10, Galil, etc., etc.
The 7.62 rounds are heavy, and have a lot more recoil than the assault rifle rounds. The basic load of 7.62 is less than half of the 5.56. The terminal effectiveness of the round is very ammo dependent, though as always, shot placement is key.
The M14 is a good rifle, and I like the looks of it. Walnut and forged American steel. It is basically an updated, detachable magazine version of the M1 Garand. It is large, heavy, and difficult to control on full auto. The accurized models can be finnicky and require a lot of maintenance. It is not as durable as some of the other choices, or as reliable, and is not the best of the breed.
Good point, Blake. There are much better platforms for optics and precision work, but probably not currently in the Army inventory in the numbers needed.
TR
I have a M1A National Match and it always shot like S$%t. I put a Smith Enterprise mount, Badger rings and Mark 4 10x on it. The best I could ever do with it is about 2 moa from a bench after tweaking many a load for it. I have been thinking about rebuilding it but I can't justify putting the money into old technology. Last year I built an AR10 with a KAC trigger and Noveske 18" Pac Nor barrel. It shoots sub MOA. My opinion would be to get a gas gun in either an AR10, FAL, or HK in 308. Forget the M1A, I don't think you will be disappointed.
IMHO, optics on a M1A1 is a no go. I have seen some mounts that have the scope set much lower, but had not tried them over the standard mount. I feel the std mount is way to high.
The iron sights always worked well for me and are really good sights. I have a AR 10, G3 and L1A1, if I had to sell them I would if just to keep the M1A1. I also just like the M14 (variants) better probably because that was what I was T/Oed on.
If a person is going for precision, I would say a bolt gun or one of the newer platforms. I think for CQC there are much better choices out there.
Still More guns are preferred to less. The M1A1 is a lot of fun.
82ndtrooper
12-19-2007, 14:09
It's actually the Nine Pound Cheese Grater, unless of course you have made a series of bad decisions and ended up with one of the "extended rail" models in which case, you have a 12 pound Cheese Grater (before accessories) ;)
Good Times,
Blake
With accessories it's more like a 25lp cheese grater. Looks cool, but in TR's own words "I fail to see the utility in a shorty 7.62 rifle"
Peregrino
12-19-2007, 18:59
CNUSMC - Not to bust on you (at least not too hard :D ) but the search button is a great resource for M1A info, especially here. There's probably 1/2 dozen threads, all offering similar advice. FWIW - I own two, both tweaked for accuracy. Love them, wouldn't trade them, but mostly shoot them for nostalgia (because I grew up with them and have a soft spot - between my ears - for M1s and M14s). For any particular purpose you can find a number of rifles that will outperform the M14. It's a "Main Battle Rifle", a concept that's been out of favor in the mainstream for at least a generation. Even within the constraints of that concept both the FN and the G3 did a better job. Yes - It has been re-introduced to limited use in the sandbox - only because the Army couldn't meet the requirements (a DMR available immediately in sufficient quantity) with anything better. That's why we now have the SASS (another can of worms) - bureaucrats and manufacturers finally got around to addressing the needs of the troops with more modern technology. Do lots of research before you spend money on a rifle that is/was only average - even in its heyday. My .02 - Peregrino
Surf n Turf
12-19-2007, 20:20
CNUSMC,
I own both the M14/M1A National Match, and several FN/FAL models.
I have optics on all, and cannot get sub-MOA on any (could be the shooter, not the rifles :D).
The best of the lot is my STG58 – with occasional 1 minute groupings.
I prefer the FN/FAL rifles, even though (IIRC) my initial issue rifle was an M1.
I agree with Peregrino, the M14/M1A is a very expensive purchase for “yesterdays” average battle rifle.
SnT
CosaNostraUSMC
12-19-2007, 22:34
I have two, one is a socom model (shorty) the other is similiar to the one I was originally issued. I really like the rifle. Maybe I'll post photos later. Not sure on Cali's laws with magazines etc. I have 20 and 30 rd mags for mine along with a 5rd mag.
I might be in Santa Cruz next week.
H.
I've disliked the "SOCOM" models, since their inception.
Cali market M1As have a different muzzle, and of course, the magazine capacity is restricted...I believe it's 10 rounds. I saw a Nat'l Match at my local shop, and the magazine barely protruded from the underside of the stock. Looked odd for an M1A, to say the least.
Santa Cruz, huh. About 1.5~2 hours drive, south of me. What'll bring you out this way?
CosaNostraUSMC
12-19-2007, 23:25
CNUSMC - Not to bust on you (at least not too hard :D )
Thanks Peregrino, for the "quarter-frag":p
Sorry, I neglected the search this time. My mind was elsewhere.
I did heed the full extent of your post, and researched the topic very well. What I found was interesting.
Basically, the M1A is a nostalgia piece, if you will. It has a cult-like following, similar to that of the 1911s. People either swear by them or hate them. I guess an analogy would be as follows:
M1A = 1911
AR10 = USP (TS, no Hk were compromised in the making of this post)
After research, it seems that, as far as I'm concerned anyways, the only reason I can see myself shelling out that much coin for old technology would be if I had plans to shoot that platform competitively; in a specific class using the iron sights. Other than this, the Cons outweigh the Pros, for me now. On the other hand, I do live in CA, so "legal" posession of a black rifle is out. A flat top 7.62 from Knights Armament would be the Coups de gras to my collection. Alas, this fuels my desire to relocate.
So, the idea of getting an M1A is out, for now anyways. Instead, I'll look into a .308 bolt gun. It's about time I learn to shoot one of them things, and to eject/chamber rounds efficiently by hand. But that's another thread. I'll refrain from hijacking my self here.
As for the M1A, it's now come to light that it is what it is. An antiquated system, in comparisson to the current gas gun market in same caliber. I don't own any 1911s, for all the reasons, that I shouldn't own an M1A; weight, technology, maintenance and reliability. Not to detract from the M1A and/or 1911s that have served our country well.
I especially don't like the issue of having to "manufacture" a proper, cheek-stock weld. I talked to McMillan today, and while the M2A stock, which I used with success and liking on my DMR is available, it's not CA legal. Pistol grip.
That and, I don't want to make some gunsmith rich off my owning something.
Interestingly enough, this all started when a friend of mine came up to me and said, "You want some .308 rounds?". I never pass up a good deal. A case of Black Hills .308 BTHP for free. The grandfather of this friend, who was an old jarhead and a guy who I knew from the time my friend and I grew up together...some 20 odd years...had passed away and my friend got the rounds and his safe, complete with collection. Interestingly enough, there was no .308 gun in the safe. Go figure. My friend knew I had experience with the round and offered them to me, saying he was sure that his grandfather would want me to use them for something. I humbly accepted.
So, now I need a new gun. :D
I've disliked the "SOCOM" models, since their inception.
Cali market M1As have a different muzzle, and of course, the magazine capacity is restricted...I believe it's 10 rounds. I saw a Nat'l Match at my local shop, and the magazine barely protruded from the underside of the stock. Looked odd for an M1A, to say the least.
Santa Cruz, huh. About 1.5~2 hours drive, south of me. What'll bring you out this way?
I would bring talk, much of what I have is illegal in Cali. I am mixed on the socom. I picked it up on a trade. I tend to value a firearm more on it's fun value. Benefits of being retired.
On the National match, was the mag fixed to the rifle?
CN, you might want to check out the CMP program, and pick up an M1. I bought mine from them about a year ago, a simple rack grade, cost me $320, and a case of Greek ammo $147 I believe. I've never been happier with a rifle purchase. I expected something I would have to invest in replacement parts, a new barrel and some gunsmithing... When I got it, I was highly impressed. They recommend having them checked by a gunsmith prior to range time, and the guy I took mine to couldn't believe the price I paid for it. (I gotta take some photos of it one of these days)
The really good part of the M1 is, you can research the serial numbers. Mine is an M1C, made in June of 1944. It was sent to Greece and resided there until the Greeks sent them back (I believe in the 80s or 90s) There are no import marks on it, and only a couple dings in the stock. The steel looks like it left the armory yesterday. Whoever had this thing in Greece took damn good care of it, and apparently didn't fire it much, if at all. It shoots like a dream, and eats that Greek FMJ without a problem. Since I'm a big fella (6'2, 250) I have no problem with the weight of it. (The weight is nice to tame the 30-0-6 recoil) and accurate... I don't need a scope. It would be the perfect big game rifle. I've also never had a problem with the M1 thumb. As long as you know how to properly load the thing, it won't bite.
CosaNostraUSMC
12-20-2007, 10:40
I would bring talk, much of what I have is illegal in Cali. I am mixed on the socom. I picked it up on a trade. I tend to value a firearm more on it's fun value. Benefits of being retired.
On the National match, was the mag fixed to the rifle?
I meant, what brings you to Cali...biz/pleasure?
Fun value, huh...
...how fun do you think it would be to hunt pigs with a SOCOM/ACOG set-up? That picture just flashed through my mind, when I read that.
No, the Nat'l match did not have a fixed mag. The limited cap one that came with it was quite rediculous for a gas gun though.
The ARs that are CA legal have fixed mags though. The lower receiver and mag are one piece, carbon composite of sorts I believe. Stupid set-up. You would have to knock out the rear pin, as if you were going to seperate the upper/lower receiver, and open it hinged at the front to load the mag from the top. Even then, the mag cap is restricted.