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Ambush Master
05-04-2004, 18:21
As I stated on the other Thread, I spoke with John today and received his permission to post these here. Following are the Dedication, Preface, and Author's Note.

Ambush Master
05-04-2004, 18:41
:

Ambush Master
05-04-2004, 18:44
=

Ambush Master
05-04-2004, 18:46
+

Ambush Master
05-04-2004, 18:47
And so this new Book Began !! A few of the names were changed in it, but the rest is real, VERY REAL !!!

You guys enjoy !!

Later
Martin

Roguish Lawyer
05-04-2004, 19:10
Thanks to Major Plaster for allowing this to be posted here. I have two long flights next week and will try to get through the entire book then. I will at least get off to a good start.

Thanks, AM.

The Reaper
05-04-2004, 19:34
Well, that did it, I just ordered mine, and will try to get him and some of the others to sign it.

Thanks, Martin, our best to MAJ Plaster.

TR

Ambush Master
05-04-2004, 20:15
Originally posted by The Reaper
Well, that did it, I just ordered mine, and will try to get him and some of the others to sign it.

Thanks, Martin, our best to MAJ Plaster.

TR

Sir, John will do ya right. I'll PM you with specifics.

Take Care.
Martin

Ambush Master
05-04-2004, 22:13
The Dust Cover:

DunbarFC
05-05-2004, 09:01
This truly is one of those up all night reading can't put it down type books

AM you are right this has movie written all over it

Mr. Plaster is a great writer

Ambush Master
05-05-2004, 19:40
For those that haven't decided on getting this one, following are a couple of quotes that set the tone of all that I have read so far:

"" Army helicopter pilots, unlike Air Force, didn't need a college degree; many were scarcely out of high school, gutsy twenty-year-old warrant officers, too young, perhaps, to be daunted by the everyday dangers of flying for SOG. No youthful SOG aviator put it so well as Mike Taylor, A Huey pilot in the 57th Assault Helicopter Company, who attempted to explain aerial tactics to a visiting Marine colonel. "We stay as high as we can for as long as we can," Taylor told him, "then we get as low as we can, as quick as we can." The colonel replied, "Those tactics sound suicidal." "No sir," Taylor explained, "the tactics are sound--the mission is suicidal."

Later John says to a Crew Chief:

"The happiest I am is when I get off that bird, and get away in the jungle. You have to be nuts to fly in and out of hot LZs like you do."

"We're nuts?" he responded. "You guys are f***ing crazy to get off the helicopter!"

It just keeps getting better !!!

Later
Martin

goat
05-05-2004, 20:45
I finished it a few days ago, it was very difficult to put down after starting to read. About half way through I found myself wanting to eat a steak while reading it. It was interesting to finally read his experiences in Vietnam, but I also appreciated how he still told the stories of other Soldiers who where with him during that time. It is an inspiring book.

Roguish Lawyer
05-06-2004, 00:33
Originally posted by goat
About half way through I found myself wanting to eat a steak while reading it.

Not with nuoc mam, I hope . . .

rubberneck
05-06-2004, 09:39
I bought the book last night and can't wait to get the time to read it. I was struck by the pictures however. It is truely amazing to me, the type of man that is willing to go behind enemy lines and to sneak within feet of an enemy patrol and snap a picture. My hat is off to you Ambush Master, all the SOG vets and all the current SF Soldiers who carry out these types of missions. You guys must certainly have a very large set of brass balls to pull that off.


I do have a question about Col Howard. There is a picture of him attending the dedication of the Vietnam Memorial. In the picture he is wearing a Ranger and an Airborn tab but no Special Forces tab. I was wondering why?

Ambush Master
05-06-2004, 10:05
Originally posted by rubberneck

I do have a question about Col Howard. There is a picture of him attending the dedication of the Vietnam Memorial. In the picture he is wearing a Ranger and an Airborn tab but no Special Forces tab. I was wondering why?

We didn't used to have the Tab. That Pic was probably before it's existance.

Edited to add: The Wall was Dedicated in 1982.

Team Sergeant
05-06-2004, 10:12
Originally posted by rubberneck

I do have a question about Col Howard. There is a picture of him attending the dedication of the Vietnam Memorial. In the picture he is wearing a Ranger and an Airborn tab but no Special Forces tab. I was wondering why?

Roger, the "SF Tab" was not authorized for wear until 1984 I think...

rubberneck
05-06-2004, 10:54
thanks.

Air.177
05-06-2004, 11:13
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Not with nuoc mam, I hope . . .

Don't Knock it till you try it :p

Eagle5US
05-06-2004, 11:49
Those pages gave me shivers...real shivers...

Eagle

QRQ 30
05-06-2004, 17:25
I bought Plaster’s book hoping to see if I’m famous. Nope! However he did mention my team ST Delaware. It was refreshing to see that some recognized the fact that NY, TX and AZ weren’t the only teams in SOG. I’m trying to nail down the time frame. I recognize many names from when he arrived at FOB-2. Howard, Pinn, Zabitowski, Silva and De Lima. It must have been while I was at FOB-3. Pinn wasn’t the recon SGM yet. He was slated for the job and went on an operation and took one in the ass. He later returned to take the job – hard as nails. I was glad to see Barnes mentioned since he was probably the only active member of the Recon Co. that was bigger than me although I was taller. He mentioned Cobras and the first Cobras arrived IIRC in April. As for Silva and De Lima I don’t know when they took Deleware. I don’t know who Martin took over from but I took over from Martin and Williams took the team when I went to Khe Sahn. I’m guessing Plaster came somewhere around Apr – Dec 1968. There also was no 1-0 school when I arrived in country, IIRC.

What little I read was very accurate. The Club was indeed one of the best classrooms I have been in. We always sat around and discussed tactics, past and future. I don’t know who the commo man was he talked about. Most of us escaped from the TOC for some action. Another reason was that we had the tightest clique you ever saw. If you weren’t recon you weren’t shit.

My eyes and attention span are equally FU but I intend to read the entire book.

Terry Dahling
http://www.sfcommo.com

Ambush Master
05-06-2004, 20:29
Originally posted by Eagle5US
Those pages gave me shivers...real shivers...

Eagle

I have trouble reading the "Authors Note" aloud. John did good tugging on the old memory strings with this one.

Read through ALL of the AAR that I posted in the Briefback area, and you will see the parallel with this work. We all wrote those in separate rooms. When you read it, you would think that we were sitting around a table comparing notes, we wern't. A somewhat comical note now, the students, myself and JOSEPH B. H, wrote the longest reports !! We were in an extremely intense training environment and did as we had been taught.

Later
Martin

Roguish Lawyer
05-06-2004, 23:27
I think my favorite story in SOG is when he's hiding in the tree above a large NVA contingent, pissing on his clothes to make sure nothing drips down on them to alert them to his presence.

That, and when he's in China looking in the back of a truck in a convoy to see if the weapons are Russian or Chinese. Holy f'ing shit!

Note that it's been a while since I read SOG, but this is what I remember the most.

Roguish Lawyer
05-10-2004, 08:36
Originally posted by QRQ 30
I bought Plaster’s book hoping to see if I’m famous. Nope! However he did mention my team ST Delaware. It was refreshing to see that some recognized the fact that NY, TX and AZ weren’t the only teams in SOG. I’m trying to nail down the time frame. I recognize many names from when he arrived at FOB-2. Howard, Pinn, Zabitowski, Silva and De Lima. It must have been while I was at FOB-3. Pinn wasn’t the recon SGM yet. He was slated for the job and went on an operation and took one in the ass. He later returned to take the job – hard as nails. I was glad to see Barnes mentioned since he was probably the only active member of the Recon Co. that was bigger than me although I was taller. He mentioned Cobras and the first Cobras arrived IIRC in April. As for Silva and De Lima I don’t know when they took Deleware. I don’t know who Martin took over from but I took over from Martin and Williams took the team when I went to Khe Sahn. I’m guessing Plaster came somewhere around Apr – Dec 1968. There also was no 1-0 school when I arrived in country, IIRC.

What little I read was very accurate. The Club was indeed one of the best classrooms I have been in. We always sat around and discussed tactics, past and future. I don’t know who the commo man was he talked about. Most of us escaped from the TOC for some action. Another reason was that we had the tightest clique you ever saw. If you weren’t recon you weren’t shit.

My eyes and attention span are equally FU but I intend to read the entire book.

Terry Dahling
http://www.sfcommo.com

I think I've said this before, but people interested in the history of Viet Nam definitely should check out Terry's site. Lots and lots of pictures and good stories. Be sure to browse the guestbook too, as there are links to some interesting sites in there. One, for example, is www.macvsog.org.

On my way to NY today, so I'll be able to start the book. Have some work to do on the plane, but hopefully will have enough time to make a nice dent.

Air.177
05-10-2004, 09:22
I just finished reading it. I like it best out of the SOG series. It is less Objective and tells Plaster's own stories while still telling those of others.

Ambush Master
05-11-2004, 18:21
My old Zippo from those days. Side #1 can be taken Two Ways.

Ambush Master
05-11-2004, 18:25
Side #2 can ONLY be taken one way, and they would have carried it for days before they found someone to interpret it. As superstitious as they were, they would have felt Cursed From The Grave !!

Roguish Lawyer
05-11-2004, 18:34
Originally posted by Ambush Master
Side #2 can ONLY be taken one way, and they would have carried it for days before they found someone to interpret it. As superstitious as they were, they would have felt Cursed From The Grave !!

Nous Defions! Great stuff. Plaster mentions another guy who had something similar as if were unique to him. Obviously not!

Bill Harsey
05-24-2004, 08:27
Ambush Master, Thank you for directing my attention here. Book will be ordered today. Bill

Roguish Lawyer
05-24-2004, 08:46
I just finished it. It is Major Plaster's autobiographical account of his time in SOG, with many stories he heard from others included as well. I think the book does as good a job as one could hope in allowing the reader to experience what it was like to be on an SOG recon team. Most of the book recounts recon mission stories, with the rest focused on time between missions.

I don't want to spoil the book by saying much further, but I do recommend it very highly to anyone interested in Special Forces or the history of the Viet Nam war.

CPTAUSRET
05-24-2004, 09:41
QRQ 30:

Terry just checked out your site, nice.

Terry

Smokin Joe
05-24-2004, 10:43
Originally posted by rubberneck
I bought the book last night and can't wait to get the time to read it. I was struck by the pictures however. It is truely amazing to me, the type of man that is willing to go behind enemy lines and to sneak within feet of an enemy patrol and snap a picture. My hat is off to you Ambush Master, all the SOG vets and all the current SF Soldiers who carry out these types of missions. You guys must certainly have a very large set of brass balls to pull that off.


I'm about a 3rd into the book. I completely agree with Rubberneck on this you gentlemen are friggin amazing.

My farther used to tell me stories about SF and Thai's he worked with while he worked for Air America. Specifically a 3 man SF team that had come from Africa they would drop them in the woods way way out and about a month or two later they would walk back on to base. But nothing as vivid as what Plaster accounts in his book.

If any of you are ever in my area the steak and beer are defiently on me.

CPTAUSRET
05-24-2004, 10:46
Your Dad fly for Air America?

Terry

QRQ 30
05-24-2004, 11:50
Did you fly Cobras out of FOB-2 around April , 1968? I remember the first group of Cobra Pilots well. They strutted into our air-briefing with their pretty white helmets with Ford Cobra decals. Within five days three were shot down and one was shot up. They were grounded temporarily to develope more appropriate tactics.

It reminds me of the first days of OIF. Those Apaches were put unnecessarily in harms way. For some reason the higher ups don't realize how devastating small arms fire can be.

Once they got it together they were the best close cover we could ask for.

CPTAUSRET
05-24-2004, 12:26
Originally posted by QRQ 30
Did you fly Cobras out of FOB-2 around April , 1968? I remember the first group of Cobra Pilots well. They strutted into our air-briefing with their pretty white helmets with Ford Cobra decals. Within five days three were shot down and one was shot up. They were grounded temporarily to develope more appropriate tactics.

It reminds me of the first days of OIF. Those Apaches were put unnecessarily in harms way. For some reason the higher ups don't realize how devastating small arms fire can be.

Once they got it together they were the best close cover we could ask for.

Terry:

No in 68 I was flying Cobras out of CanTho after flying B-model gunships out of SocTrang in 65-66, and spending about a year as a gunnery IP at Mother Rucker. I had a healthy respect for what small arms fire could do to a helicopter. My nickname was "Magnet Ass", cause I couldn't seem to come back from a mission with out a few bullet holes for someone to patch up:

Terry

Smokin Joe
05-24-2004, 13:05
Originally posted by CPTAUSRET
Your Dad fly for Air America?

Terry

Yes T-28's and A-1E's out of Udorn, he lived in Udorn and flew out of Laos (I think) or whatever AA base was close to Udorn from earliy 67 to late 69.

Martinez
05-24-2004, 16:44
I have both of the Major's SOG books, have placed an order for his latest. I can't wait to read it.

Jennifer Martinez sends

Solid
05-25-2004, 00:54
I got it late Friday and finished it sunday. It had a far more personal, less explanatory and historic slant than SOG, which for me made for harder, more emotional reading. Plaster is very good at 'pen portraits'.

Everyone should read this book.

Solid

Eagle5US
05-25-2004, 12:03
Originally posted by Smokin Joe
Yes T-28's and A-1E's out of Udorn, he lived in Udorn and flew out of Laos (I think) or whatever AA base was close to Udorn from earliy 67 to late 69.
That is the Savannhaket Airfield...the same one we fly into and out of for most of our OPNs in the Southern provinces.
The Air America hangers are still there as are the parking pads surrounded by blast walls.
AEK Udorn is just accross the border...there is a clinic that I use there for stabilization of patients prior to transfer up to Bangkok.
Next time I am there...I will try to get a couple of photos (of what is left) if you want.

Eagle
per QRQ 30's incredible memory...(and my lack of coffee)
correction...
AEK Udorn (Udon Thani) is in the North by Vientiane...
I was referring to Ubon (Ratchathani) in the South

QRQ 30
05-25-2004, 12:27
Eagle: I believe you are speaking of UBON and Gorilla Joe is speaking of UDON. AA flew out of both as well as NKP and Pitsanoluk. Udon is across the river from Vientiane and closest to the northern areas of Laos. In 73 I got a gold Presidential Rolex in Vientienne for $900 U,S. We recovered a T-28 from the river near Savanahket and another from a lake north of Vientienne. I have been to both airfields. We recovered RLAF aircraft and shipped them to the states for remanufacturing since there were no more aircraft to be bought.

"HeavyHook" also worked out of NKP with AA.

Eagle5US
05-25-2004, 12:54
Originally posted by QRQ 30
Eagle: I believe you are speaking of UBON and Gorilla Joe is speaking of UDON. AA flew out of both as well as NKP and Pitsanoluk. Udon is across the river from Vientiane and closest to the northern areas of Laos. In 73 I got a gold Presidential Rolex in Vientienne for $900 U,S. We recovered a T-28 from the river near Savanahket and another from a lake north of Vientienne. I have been to both airfields. We recovered RLAF aircraft and shipped them to the states for remanufacturing since there were no more aircraft to be bought.

"HeavyHook" also worked out of NKP with AA.
You're right I'm wrong...DAMMIT!!!
AEK Udorn (aka Udon Thani) is across from Vientiane and is my stabilization platform in the North...
Ubon (Ubon Ratchatani) is where the clinic is located in Southern Thailand across from Savanakhet.

Sorry...coffee deficient at the office...

Eagle

Smokin Joe
05-25-2004, 16:02
Originally posted by Eagle5US
You're right I'm wrong...DAMMIT!!!
AEK Udorn (aka Udon Thani) is across from Vientiane and is my stabilization platform in the North...
Ubon (Ubon Ratchatani) is where the clinic is located in Southern Thailand across from Savanakhet.

Sorry...coffee deficient at the office...

Eagle

Ubon sounds familiar, however I will get clarification on EXACTLY which one he flew out of.

It is Udon Than.
He said all the Gringos called it Udorn.
Close to Vientien.

Eagle it sounds like you are walking around my dad's old stomping grounds.

He would love to see some photos of what is left. I will try and get some old photos of what the place looked like. Only problem is all his photos are on slides. But I will see what I can do.


Stay safe

Joe

QRQ 30
05-26-2004, 14:57
Folks: I am a slow reader, but as I read the book I realize I have several pictures illustrating the Book. Here is an example: from p.14 -- Maybe a little more extreme than "tounguing his ear". If anyone is interested I could post whem as I read about them.

Roguish Lawyer
05-26-2004, 15:09
Originally posted by QRQ 30
If anyone is interested I could post whem as I read about them.

Please! :munchin

CPTAUSRET
05-26-2004, 15:34
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Please! :munchin

Yup.

Terry

QRQ 30
05-26-2004, 17:53
Kontum City in 1968 just after Tet.

Sigi
06-15-2004, 11:01
I have never read any of Major Plaster's books. I assume there are three, but I'll research that before I leave today.

Fantastic thread and great pics. QRQ 30, Sir, you have a great site. Glad I visited.

Sigi
06-17-2004, 19:04
I was in the store today and purchased SOG and Hunting the Jackal .

I had Secret Commando's in my hand but it came down to that or Waugh's book because I only had $50. Just going to have to go back Saturday and pick it up, especially after re-reading this post.

I started reading about SOF right after 9/11. I consumed well over 20 books, mostly Naval Special Warfare, but I also read Clancy's Shadow Warriors and Special Forces , as well as a couple WWII books and a book on Rangers.

I have never read any of the "other" books on Special Forces, and right now I am going to read 3 books on SOG.

I knew what SOG meant, but I never bothered to understand who SOG was. From the first 58 pages of Waughs book, plus re-reading some of the SOG threads here, I am deeply greatful that men like you lived, and absolutely amazed that men like you exist. Sometimes it is difficult to comprehend what you men did.

I can only say Thank you.
Sigi

NousDefionsDoc
06-20-2004, 09:47
A very good friend of mine put it in a box as a surprise. I haven't started it yet, I'm saving it for when I can devote attention.

Solid
06-20-2004, 10:22
Sigi-
What did you think of Clancy's books? While Shadow Warriors was useful as a cut-down history of SOF, with interesting interludes from General Stiner, I thought that Clancy's tone throughout 'Special Forces' was slightly smarmy... it also seems that John Gresham is forced to do all the footwork.

JMO,

Solid

Sigi
06-20-2004, 11:14
I liked Shadow Warriors because it offered a good synopsis of how SOCOM was put together, and offered some information on our presence in Lebanon, the Achille Lauro, Urgent Fury, and Just Cause, as well as GW 1. I thought it was OK.

Special Forces is more of a text book to me. It decsribes a lot in terms of how U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers are created and how the groups are structured. The second part of the book has info on certain operations and SF soldiers downrange and in the field.

I use Special Forces regularly in order to better understand some of the other information I may read. It is not a book I can read once and retain. Often times I read certain chapters on the structure of A and B teams, or I may read about the certain specialties (weapons, medic, engineer, etc...) of the SF soldier.

I am not much of a book reviewer. ;)

Bill Harsey
06-20-2004, 15:47
My wife and kids just came home with my fathers day presents, two books-one called "SOG" and the other "Secret Commandos" both by John L. Plaster. I will treasure reading these. Thank you Major Plaster.

Solid
06-20-2004, 16:04
Sir,
I would respectfully suggest that you read them in the order they were published, if you have not decided to do so already. It's like looking at the 'big picture' before zooming in on the detailed 'little pictures' which comprise it.

Thank you,

Solid

Bill Harsey
06-20-2004, 16:11
Originally posted by Solid
Sir,
I would respectfully suggest that you read them in the order they were published, if you have not decided to do so already. It's like looking at the 'big picture' before zooming in on the detailed 'little pictures' which comprise it.

Thank you,

Solid Good thinking, will do!

hoepoe
06-21-2004, 01:41
Great thread! Off to search Amazon.com, and of course place an order.

Keep well, keep safe.

Hoepoe

NousDefionsDoc
07-01-2004, 21:49
I just finished Secret Commandos - starting Hunting the Jackal.

Roguish Lawyer
07-01-2004, 22:59
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
starting Hunting the Jackal.

That's next for me too, despite the fact that I just received the one that Jimbo claims is another HFCUI . . . :rolleyes: LOL

Bill Harsey
07-02-2004, 08:29
Originally posted by Solid
Sigi-
What did you think of Clancy's books? While Shadow Warriors was useful as a cut-down history of SOF, with interesting interludes from General Stiner, I thought that Clancy's tone throughout 'Special Forces' was slightly smarmy... it also seems that John Gresham is forced to do all the footwork.

JMO,

Solid "forced"??? I think John Gresham is probably paid very well for his work with Mr. Clancy.

Solid
07-05-2004, 02:41
Forced wasn't the right word, I agree. I do however appreciate people who do their own leg work, even if they handsomely pay others to do it for them. Even worse is when the employer then refers to 'his' experience when it was actually the experience of his researchers.
Just a foible, I guess.

Solid

TerribleTobyt
08-03-2004, 18:31
Folks-

For those of y'all that might've ordered you book thru amazon.com, John asked that you write a review of the book there.

Jes thot I'd pass it along.

Later.

Toby
1-2, RT California

NousDefionsDoc
08-03-2004, 21:02
Done

QRQ 30
08-06-2004, 09:25
I can't remember where I posted the other pictures. This is the beach at Danang.

Is that Smokin Joe we see? It looks like his old avatar.:p

Roguish Lawyer
08-06-2004, 10:16
That's a really cool pic, QRQ. Thanks.

Sacamuelas
10-20-2004, 12:21
Stayed up until 02:30 last night entrenched in reading this book. I spent my entire lunch break today scouring its pages again... what an OUTSTANDING BOOK.

Anyone who doesn't have it, should get it. Truly remarkable men and gripping accounts of the missions they performed as fun loving/free spirited yet always "Quiet Professionals".

Thank you Ambush Master, Toby T, QRQ30, BMT, RWT bkk, Lurch, and all the other warriors of SOG for your courage. :cool:

rwt_bkk
10-25-2004, 04:36
John is a really good writer who keeps the story going from begginng to end. More importantly, for me anyway, he has done a great service to the SOG vets by telling a bit of what it was like. He broke the ice on SOG books and you will see some others coming out soon.

One thing I think it is impossible to capture the tension of the mission in words. A friend of mine (George Pointon) who was a 10 at CCC and then went to MF was telling me a story. His first day on the MF he and another ex-Soggie both got wounded. Later they were talking comparing the MF and SOG. The other guy said, "you know this place is Dangerous, but SOG was terrifying!".

Got to agree with John though, I was damn glad to get off the choppers! I actually went to WO flight before SF. (washed out for "Lack of Military Development... duh!). Later I reflected on how happy I was that I wasn't a chopper pilot (esp slicks).

Looking forward to getting his Pictorial History of SOG, I lost almost every pic from CCN.

bberkley
12-20-2004, 13:17
I just finished reading "Secret Commandos" and am halfway through "SOG" and I've got to say I'm very impressed by Maj. Plaster's writing, and even more impressed at what you men in SOG have done.

Thank you all for your service.

brownapple
12-20-2004, 18:59
One thing I think it is impossible to capture the tension of the mission in words. A friend of mine (George Pointon) who was a 10 at CCC and then went to MF was telling me a story. His first day on the MF he and another ex-Soggie both got wounded. Later they were talking comparing the MF and SOG. The other guy said, "you know this place is Dangerous, but SOG was terrifying!".


Bru,

If we ever can get George using a computer on a consistent basis, we can get him on here telling his stories.

QRQ 30
12-20-2004, 19:38
I served with George in Komtum and Thailand.

eva05
12-21-2004, 10:26
Apparently Major John Plaster has been deeply involved in the design of a sim/game detailing SOG missions...

http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=28172

To be honest I was pretty surprised by this. I've read all of Plaster's books and he's a great story teller but I have a hard time imagining these being recreated in a compelling manner virtually. Especially as SOG missions seemed to involve getting in and out with no contact...

If interested, here's the website...though there's not a whole lot here.

http://www.boldgames.com/sog.html

j

Ambush Master
12-21-2004, 10:37
Especially as SOG missions seemed to involve getting in and out with no contact...
j

If you were LUCKY !!!

CPTAUSRET
12-21-2004, 11:23
Got to agree with John though, I was damn glad to get off the choppers! I actually went to WO flight before SF. (washed out for "Lack of Military Development... duh!). Later I reflected on how happy I was that I wasn't a chopper pilot (esp slicks).



When did you attend Flight School? I graduated in 65.

I definitely agree on not wanting to fly slicks...you put me in a war zone, and I am going to be offensive!

Terry

NousDefionsDoc
12-21-2004, 11:36
Especially as SOG missions seemed to involve getting in and out with no contact...

Maybe you should read the books again, you seemed to have missed the writing between the lines. Pay particular attention to the parts where it mentions medals, firefights, hugely out numbered, WIA and KIA, ass in a sling, barely got out, running, Praire Fire, shit hit the fan, Holy Mary Mother of God, CAS stacked up to heaven, stacking magazines, dropping rucks, shot out of the LZ and "I know there's a bunch of 'em, that's why I sent six of y'all, now get in there and mix it up!"

eva05
12-21-2004, 11:37
If you were LUCKY !!!

I can imagine.

The moment that stands out most in "Secret Commandos" is when the NVA patrol creeps right through their camp and never even sees them...

j

BMT (RIP)
12-21-2004, 12:07
LUCK had alot to do with getting inserted. The NVA couldnot watch every LZ,but with a MOLE in SOG HQ's they knew where we were inserting. Every afternoon at 1700 an HF radio station came up with lots of power,it was not a freq used by US or SVN. NSA/ASA were not allowed to DF this station!!
This was probably SOG's mole transmitting the next days target list.

BMT

QRQ 30
12-21-2004, 12:13
Maybe you should read the books again, you seemed to have missed the writing between the lines. Pay particular attention to the parts where it mentions medals, firefights, hugely out numbered, WIA and KIA, ass in a sling, barely got out, running, Praire Fire, shit hit the fan, Holy Mary Mother of God, CAS stacked up to heaven, stacking magazines, dropping rucks, shot out of the LZ and "I know there's a bunch of 'em, that's why I sent six of y'all, now get in there and mix it up!"

Actually EVA isn't all that far off base. Things changed later, as they will, but the original missions were recon and "snoop and poop". I once told an eager young lad that if we made contact it was because we screwed up. In 68 I had some very scary moments but never had a mission to make contact. Some did. For every "exciting" mission there were 1/2 dozen "dry holes", but they aren't the thing of which books and video games are made.

I might also add that "SOG" was a much bigger organization than what we see in books about SOG. SOG was a Joint Services Organization. Notice that the USAF Wings and Navy anchor are incorporated into the MACV SOG crest. What we are seeing written about as SOG is really a nich called Command and Control.

I had several operations but most were very forgettable. I really only clearly recall three.

On one extraction the FAC counted an excess of 200 bodies on the LZ. We got out with only one KIA but the reason we got so screwed up was because of a huge tactical mistake on our part. The story is in "Tales from the Teamhouse" entitled "My Longest Day."

Another time I looked down after being lifted out on a McGuire Rig and saw the bad guys over running what was our extraction point. OTOH there are several operations of which I have little recollection. Not book material.

QRQ 30
12-21-2004, 12:20
The NVA had pretty sophisticated SIGINT, RDF and Interception. Inserting out of Khe Sahn wasn't that difficult but it was almost a sure thing you would make contact within 30 minutes of breaking radio silence. Talking on the radio in the DMZ area was about as smart as running trails -- suicidal!.

eva05
12-21-2004, 12:32
Maybe you should read the books again, you seemed to have missed the writing between the lines. "I know there's a bunch of 'em, that's why I sent six of y'all, now get in there and mix it up!"

I seem to remember something about that ^_^

But as QRQ 30 mentioned...I was thinking of the earlier missions. I have a book called "Prairie Fire" written by a SOG vet that detailed a lot of scary stuff that went down then.

As I remember from the books, the NVA developed teams that specifically hunted SOG teams at some point...

If anyone can recommend any other solid books on SOG I'd love to check em out.

j

Roguish Lawyer
12-21-2004, 12:51
If anyone can recommend any other solid books on SOG I'd love to check em out.

Look through this forum and you'll find quite a few.

pulque
01-10-2005, 16:10
Just finished Secret Commandos. Amazing! I have alot of questions but the one that sticks out is were there ever 2 Covey Riders on one shift? It seems like if there is more than one team on the ground the choice would be devastating.

Now I am prepped to read more in the Tales from Teamhouse forum.

Thanks QRQ30, Ambush Master, CPTAUSRET, and all the warriors of the generation!! This book put a spotlight on what honor was already yours!!

QRQ 30
01-10-2005, 16:27
In 1968 there was one covey per operational area. In Kontum we ran two projects Code Named "Prarie Ffire" and" Daniel Boone". PF was Laos and DB was Cambodia. Therefore we had two observors up. They could cpver a lot of territory in their little airplanes and they could help each other.. The limitation was in helicopter assets. We usually had enough assets to handle two or three emergencies. Unfortunately the Bosses in Saigon would "sometimes" over commit us. It wasn't common but not unmheard of to be told that you had to wait your turn for air support -- not a good thing!!

Side note: I just saw "Wind Talkers". It had some of the most realistic and reminiscent combat scenes I have seen in a movie -- real up close and personal and down and dirty.

CPTAUSRET
01-10-2005, 16:40
In 1968 there was one covey per operational area. In Kontum we ran two projects Code Named "Prarie Ffire" and" Daniel Boone". PF was Laos and DB was Cambodia. Therefore we had two observors up. They could cpver a lot of territory in their little airplanes and they could help each other.. The limitation was in helicopter assets. We usually had enough assets to handle two or three emergencies. Unfortunately the Bosses in Saigon would "sometimes" over commit us. It wasn't common but not unmheard of to be told that you had to wait your turn for air support -- not a good thing!!



TD:

Do you remember a FAC pilot who flew out of Kontum named Gary Lowrey? He was a Warrant Officer.

Terry

QRQ 30
01-10-2005, 16:47
TD:

Do you remember a FAC pilot who flew out of Kontum named Gary Lowrey? He was a Warrant Officer.

Terry

The name sounds familiar. I was more familiar with the observers: 1LT Ethridge, 1LT Hamrick ( once my 1-1) and Dallas Longstreath.

CPTAUSRET
01-10-2005, 16:55
The name sounds familiar. I was more familiar with the observers: 1LT Ethridge, 1LT Hamrick ( once my 1-1) and Dallas Longstreath.
I talked with him a couple of months ago, he had fond (LOL) memories of Kontum.

Terry

QRQ 30
01-10-2005, 17:26
I'd bet he had a SPAF call sign. They lived with us in the FOB.

CPTAUSRET
01-10-2005, 17:30
I'd bet he had a SPAF call sign. They lived with us in the FOB.
I don't remember his callsign, I know that when he went through flight school ((a few years after me) he was thrilled to get fixed wing training.

I, on the other hand turned it down, I always wanted to fly gunships.

Terry

TerribleTobyt
02-10-2005, 22:41
A pic of me and John Plaster at SOAR acuppola years ago!!!

Note our ball caps with the RT California logo!!!!!

Toby
1-2
RT California

Lancer33
02-15-2005, 22:31
Bru loaned the book to me a couple of months ago and it was a great read. SOG was good, but "Secret Commandos" brought all of it to a personal level.
Having flown for CCN, many of the stories brought back memories and sent chills down my spine.

Martinez
02-16-2005, 08:52
Lancer 33... damn that sounds familiar... I know you don't I. ?

Jennifer Martinez sends

Lancer33
02-16-2005, 21:02
Lancer 33... damn that sounds familiar... I know you don't I. ?


Yep, I believe you do.

Martinez
02-16-2005, 21:04
Brian?

Jennifer sends

Lancer33
02-16-2005, 21:51
Yep.

Martinez
02-17-2005, 19:18
So how ya doin'?

Jennifer sends

Viking
03-04-2005, 06:21
Loved reading this book. thanks guys.

Max_Tab
06-04-2005, 09:00
Just bought the book last week, I was up in CT and we went into the UCONN bookstore, and this book was in the "bargain bin" I figured those liberal f***'s didn't deserve it so I bought it. I meant to save it and read it on my upcoming deployment, but I couldn't wait. I'm about halfway through it right now.

Trip_Wire (RIP)
06-04-2005, 11:53
Just bought the book last week, I was up in CT and we went into the UCONN bookstore, and this book was in the "bargain bin" I figured those liberal f***'s didn't deserve it so I bought it. I meant to save it and read it on my upcoming deployment, but I couldn't wait. I'm about halfway through it right now.

We have a bunch of the "South Vietnamese Secret Commando's" as associate members in Chapter 16 SFA. Some spent many years in the North in prison.

Fletcher's son
07-11-2008, 10:22
Just bought the book last week, I was up in CT and we went into the UCONN bookstore, and this book was in the "bargain bin" I figured those liberal f***'s didn't deserve it so I bought it. I meant to save it and read it on my upcoming deployment, but I couldn't wait. I'm about halfway through it right now.

I bought the book a month ago when dad died. had to stand in the aisle at books-a-million right next the "Hot gay cops" books and other shxt of that nature. it was kind of insulting that the military history section was right in with the social science section dealing with homosexuality. Pops was at ccn or tf1ae in '71. always heard the stories but never listened. books like this one, well written and descriptive, help people who don't know (like me) see past the media and hoopla about the vietnam victim and see the real vietnam veterans. Everybody wants to be a green beret. my dad was one.