View Full Version : Need K-9 help
I am looking to purchase a GSD from good, working lines for personal / family protection and need some assistance.
Our current GSD, a loved family member, protector and friend of over 11 years is not doing so good and might not be around too much longer. It’s tough to write that, but it’s a fact. He has given us much companionship and has given me personally, great peace of mind knowing that he was watching over the family through all my TDY and OCONUS deployments. As much as it kills me to even think like this… It’s time to start preparing for his leaving and start planning for getting another dog.
Our dog, in his prime, was a multi-use (patrol/tracking/ started on cadaver) 79lb, male, GSD. Could have easily been placed on a police force somewhere. My wife was his primary handler. We did all his basic obedience training (and encouraging of his prey drive) and either my wife or I personally handled him during all his advanced training (bite work, agility, building search, tracking)… which we did religiously several days a week at Sentinal-K9, (Owner, Gerry Lapham) while stationed at FBNC. (I do not believe that they are in business anymore) He was our first GSD and our first trained working dog and now we’re 100% sold on another, similar dog.
I am currently located in the D.C. area and am at the very beginning of trying to figure how to best find a dog and go about getting it trained. (I could get a puppy or get a dog already started/fully trained). The kids would love a puppy, but I'm open to either way. My wife works from home and can devote time to working the dog and I’ll put in time after work and on weekends. We are a good fit for a dog with a strong personality and drive to work (that s what we have now).
If there is any out there who knows of a good breeder/trainer within a few hours of DC, suggestions on how I should go about my search, or experience in this area that you want to share, I'd appreciate any help I could get.
Thanks.
LibraryLady
12-06-2007, 15:43
abc_123,
A thought - Military Working Dog Foundation (http://www.militaryworkingdogs.com/needtoknow.shtml)
LL
Peregrino
12-06-2007, 17:49
abc-123 - Thanks for starting this thread. We're going to follow along too. We just lost our male GSD and the female is showing her years. Facts of life with a companion animal. Our problem is prejudice against what the AKC and unscrupulous breeders have done to the breed here in the States. (Our male was a rescue with almost every genetic fault possible to the breed; the female is 3/4 German - healthy as a (proverbial) horse and well outside the AKC standards.) It'll be hard to replace her - for a lot of reasons. Peregrino
AngelsSix
12-06-2007, 21:52
I love my GSD; he is loyal, smart and handsome to boot!! He has had a lot of food allergy issues, however. He seems to be doing fine now that he is eating a special diet. Other than that he is a super dog, I wish I had three of him!!!
Smokin Joe
12-06-2007, 22:37
My department got our K-9 from adlerhorst.com (add the www.) . He is a freaking stud! I would give them a call in a heartbeat if I had the coin to drop on a K-9.
I really appreciate any and all help/opinions. More are welcome. Besides I love my GSD (and working dogs in general) very amazing animals. My GSD is scary smart and very perceptive. My wife is the daughter of a vet who grew up with all kinds of animals in the house but never a GSD. We did research and then got ours....and I can honestly tell you he is everything that the books say about the breed...and then some.
We've found our male GSD to be very much a momma's dog. (like our trainer told us GSD's will tend to be). The helper could beat him with a stick and he'd never let go of a bite or fail to re-engage if he lost it... but step on his paw when not working and my wife was around and he'd cry and limp around on three legs... past me to get to my wife who woud dote on him. The paw would "magically" become better, his ears would go back and about 2feet of tongue would stick out the side of his mouth. Dammned funniest thing.
I think if I had to do anything else in the military other than what I've done it would be working with dogs.
Smokin Joe,
Thanks for the link. I'm just coming to grips now with the hit my wallet is going to take...:eek: We picked our puppy up from a policeman in Georgia (11yrs ago) that we found via an add in the paper while visiting relatives. His first litter... german bloodlines. Saw the pups and picked him up for $600. The training I got for free through military connections at FBNC and the fact that my wife and I were serious about putting the time in to turn out a good dog and that I my wife was home alone a lot of the time due to my military service. I think the trainer also saw potential in the dog so he just kept going with the training... (we just had to bring a case of beer every now and then to keep the fridge stocked at the kennel:)).
I guess my preference would be to get a puppy and then do our own obiedience, socialization , and prey-drive training and then look for a place to work on defensive bite work etc. once he gets old enough.
Peregrino,
Yep... you nailed it. I see too many sites on the web promoting HUGE GSDs, dogs with extreme sloping backs and so forth... NOT sound-structured working dogs...
Once I get a dog, I can control his basic obidience.. We will put the time in to do it right. I can then start on the search for a place to work him (hopefully someone on this board who is into dogs professionally is within a reasonable distance of D.C. ;)). The thing that I can't control is the quality of the puppy. I don't want to get ripped off and end up with a poor dog with little potential. I realize just because a web site is fancy or they are charging an insane amount for a puppy doesn't mean that the dogs are any good.
Going what an already trained dog is WAY more expensive but you can see what you are getting... however... My personal feeling is taht it's better to train your own as much as possible.. Why should you personal protection dog be forced to listen to anyone else but YOU (or designated members of the family)??..and more time with the family makes for a stronger bond with the family "pack", I would think. YMMV.
PM sent. FWIW... get a pup
Ladyhawke
12-07-2007, 19:33
PM sent. For those that may be interested; check out the Shiloh Shepherd; in particular www.newzionshilohs.org. Lisa began the Shiloh breed 30 years ago to get the Shepherd back to the original standard; larger dogs, even temerment, natural guardians, no extreme slope in the back etc. The AKC has IMHO ruined the GSD here in the US, the AKC lines are much smaller and more prone to genetic problems. We got extremely lucky with our female GSD that turns 11 in Jan, she has a mostly European bloodline, no sloping back and tops the scales at 92 lbs of solid muscle. Too smart for her own good; or at least for her owners. :) We will not ever consider a GSD with AKC bloodlines.
Definately going the puppy route. The more I think about it there is no reason not to and every reason to do it. My wife and I can devote the time and are able to plan/structure training....Why force a dog to listen to a "stranger" when it sould be bonding to it's own "pack"?
Once we progress to "protection" training we'll need to go get help. Hopefully we'll find someplace relatively local so that we can work the dog ourselves.
BTW, the Sihilos and Cane Corso's are beautiful dogs.
I'm sure you've done a lot of research already, but if you haven't stumbled across the Belgian Malinois breed of Shepards, I would recommend a look.
http://www.akc.org/breeds/belgian_malinois/index.cfm
My current lady helps train dogs, particularly this breed, for home defense. They are not only beautiful but very intelligent. Also, a few of the local police departments utilize this breed due to the shorter hair. Full shepards shed like crazy down here.
Good luck in your search.
Team Sergeant
12-08-2007, 13:29
http://www.arizonashepherds.com/about.php
I just purchased a GSD from these guys, extremely smart dogs.
Go to the photo gallerys
http://www.arizonashepherds.com/photos2.php?cat=Previously+Sold+Dogs
This ones mine:
http://www.arizonashepherds.com/about.php
I just purchased a GSD from these guys, extremely smart dogs.
Go to the photo gallerys
http://www.arizonashepherds.com/photos2.php?cat=Previously+Sold+Dogs
This ones mine:
TS,
Beautiful...If it does not violate OPSEC, can I ask the name?:)
Holly
Peregrino
12-08-2007, 15:44
http://www.arizonashepherds.com/about.php
I just purchased a GSD from these guys, extremely smart dogs.
Go to the photo gallerys
http://www.arizonashepherds.com/photos2.php?cat=Previously+Sold+Dogs
This ones mine:
That's going to be a lot of GSD (when the rest of him catches up with the ears :p). Where are his littermates? You know he won't be able to keep the girls out of trouble by his lonesome. (Course he's probably already completely suborned - at least where they're concerned.)
Team Sergeant
12-08-2007, 15:53
TS,
Beautiful...If it does not violate OPSEC, can I ask the name?:)
Holly
It was Infidel but I changed it to Muhammad.........
It was Infidel but I changed it to Muhammad.........
LOL
I would love to see outraged Muslims knocking on YOUR door to voice their concerns.... :D
Team Sergeant
12-08-2007, 15:58
LOL
I would love to see outraged Muslims knocking on YOUR door to voice their concerns.... :D
Outrage because I named my cute (for now) puppy Muhammad???
Bring it on.......
Team Sergeant
GratefulCitizen
12-08-2007, 16:07
Outrage because I named my cute (for now) puppy Muhammad???
Bring it on.......
Team Sergeant
It seems appropriate that a QP would be able to make "Muhammad's" state calm and submissive.
Peregrino
12-08-2007, 16:30
It seems appropriate that a QP would be able to make "Muhammad's" state calm and submissive.
I understand the play on words but I wouldn't put any money on the "submissive" part. :munchin Somehow I doubt that's in his job description. I'm quite sure he'll know his place in the pack though. Perhaps "well mannered" and "appropriately aggressive" would be better descriptors. I know those are the standards in our house.
Outrage because I named my cute (for now) puppy Muhammad???
Bring it on.......
Team Sergeant
If these people can get pissed at a cartoon and a teddy bear.....
:rolleyes:
It was Infidel but I changed it to Muhammad.........
TS,
Rock On Sir, Rock On!:lifter
Holly
Surf n Turf
12-08-2007, 21:39
For those that may be interested; check out the Shiloh Shepherd; in particular www.newzionshilohs.org. Lisa began the Shiloh breed 30 years ago to get the Shepherd back to the original standard; larger dogs, even temerment, natural guardians, no extreme slope in the back etc. .
Ladyhawke,
I have owned a Shiloh Shepherd for almost 6 years. He was a terror as a puppy, but is now a great watch dog and companion. I have no buyers remorse about spending the money to buy this great dog ------
However, anyone looking to purchase a Shiloh should be aware of the hostility between Tina Barber / Lisa, and many Shiloh owners & breeders. There are health problems even with an ISSR registered dog. The owners also raised some ethical questions regarding breeding, back breeding, and new introductions into the line. Caveat emptor
Surf n Turf
terror as a puppy
Redundant comment for all puppies! :D
Pat
Big Daddy
12-09-2007, 10:53
http://www.arizonashepherds.com/about.php
I just purchased a GSD from these guys, extremely smart dogs.
Go to the photo gallerys
http://www.arizonashepherds.com/photos2.php?cat=Previously+Sold+Dogs
This ones mine:
Beautiful dog. Looks like mine except mine is a 125 lbs of kick ass muscle. Only problem is that when he goes out in the yard he leaves big piles of muhammad around the yard. But it's a small price to pay for a great dog.
x SF med
12-09-2007, 11:04
Outrage because I named my cute (for now) puppy Muhammad???
Bring it on.......
Team Sergeant
I would have thought you'd go with at least one on this list:
Dai-Ui
XO or Generator
Team Daddy
Ops
Bombman / Sapper
Doc or Body Mechanic
Guns (could be Big Guns and Little Guns)
Sparky or Di-Dah
just a few ideas as you fill out the kennel.....
Ladyhawke
12-09-2007, 17:23
Surf n Turf
I saw that on the New Zion web site; you are correct about the infighting going on between the breed founder and some breeders that 'broke rank' with her breeding standards to set their own. She says the standards are lower and that those break away breeders are going the same route as the AKC GSD breeders from the European breeders. Who is to know??? She does go into detail on her site about the problems and she appears to be up front about her imports and why she brings in a particular bloodline. One would have to almost have a degree in genetics to read her detailed reports on her site where she tracks the genetics stats, but again it would be up to the buyer to satisfy their own individual concerns. The one thing I am not crazy about on her site are her contract requirements; I do know I would never enter into a co-owner contract with her. Glad to hear that you are loving your Shiloh though, I am tagging TS's site where he got his GSD, I like what I have seen.
TS,
Beautiful puppy! Gotta love those GSD puppy ears! Went to the "puppies" link and the Sire is a dead ringer for a younger version of my dog. (tried to post a pic, but it's not workign for some reason).
Here is my shepherd. He's a Dutch. We got him in Hope Mills Summer of 06. He's the smartest dog I've ever had.
Eureka! finally figured out how to attach a picture.
Here's my old buddy.
This pic was taken a year or two ago. Don't have any older pictures on digits otherwise I'd post one from his younger days.
Lady,
I saw the same thing when I went to that site too... too much dirty laundry. I'm not getting involved in all that drama. Kinda like when I have a bunch of people bitching/complaining to me. After a certain point it all becomes noise and I tell them all to go away and then we do what I want...which is the course of action designed to make sure that NOBODY gets what they want except me. Also, when I buy something it is mine. No co-owning... M I N E. (well, except for my house, and my car, and that new suite of living-room furniture... but you get the idea ;) )
Big D,
... yes but they do tend to be in the same part of the yard....so it's not as bad as it could be.
Eureka! finally figured out how to attach a picture.
Here's my old buddy.
This pic was taken a year or two ago. Don't have any older pictures on digits otherwise I'd post one from his younger days.
Handsome pup!
Pat
Big Daddy
12-11-2007, 08:00
Eureka! finally figured out how to attach a picture.
Here's my old buddy.
This pic was taken a year or two ago. Don't have any older pictures on digits otherwise I'd post one from his younger days.
Lady,
I saw the same thing when I went to that site too... too much dirty laundry. I'm not getting involved in all that drama. Kinda like when I have a bunch of people bitching/complaining to me. After a certain point it all becomes noise and I tell them all to go away and then we do what I want...which is the course of action designed to make sure that NOBODY gets what they want except me. Also, when I buy something it is mine. No co-owning... M I N E. (well, except for my house, and my car, and that new suite of living-room furniture... but you get the idea ;) )
Big D,
... yes but they do tend to be in the same part of the yard....so it's not as bad as it could be.
He looks like a clone of my little fella. What does he weigh, how old is he?
Adult weight has been constant between 78-81 lbs (the 81 lbs was when he was younger and we worked him harder.. did lots of hill running/climbing and agility training with him).
He's a little over 11yrs old now. he was 9.5 in that picture, IIRC.. weighed about 79lbs or so. he was playing in the woods with the kids so he had his fur all puffed up and was making himself look big.
Peregrino
01-29-2008, 21:33
OK Guys - I'm blaming you (especially abc-123 :p) for the turmoil currently destroying my piece of mind. Ladyhawke got her puppy for Christmas. His call name is "Little Shit" and he's earned every bit of it. He's 13+ weeks now; God help us as he gets bigger.
Smokin Joe
01-29-2008, 21:45
OK Guys - I'm blaming you (especially abc-123 :p) for the turmoil currently destroying my piece of mind. Ladyhawke got her puppy for Christmas. His call name is "Little Shit" and he's earned every bit of it. He's 13+ weeks now; God help us as he gets bigger.
Good looking dog.
My condolences to your house.
Actually, it looks like the Team Sgt. has things under control! :lifter
Pat
Team Sergeant
01-29-2008, 22:12
OK Guys - I'm blaming you (especially abc-123 :p) for the turmoil currently destroying my piece of mind. Ladyhawke got her puppy for Christmas. His call name is "Little Shit" and he's earned every bit of it. He's 13+ weeks now; God help us as he gets bigger.
LOL those are some great pic's..... Good looking pup.
ReconDoc242
01-30-2008, 13:43
good looking pup! I remember when my little girl was like that....now we are getting her ready for her schutzhund I trial....how time flyes!
Some of you have mentioned you are in the market for a new dog. My family has years breeding and loving GS's.
www.oakhavengermanshepherds.com is our website and use the contacts there to inquiry about litters and some that are for sale...and ignore the young pictures of me from 15 years ago. :p
Red Flag 1
01-31-2008, 14:56
PM sent.
RF 1
AngelsSix
01-31-2008, 23:05
Here's a pic of my Max as a puppy.....gangly little bugger...and as a big boy (this past Christmas).
jdhiggin
02-05-2008, 22:00
We purchased a Shiloh from a breeder in WA in October. I spent alot of time looking for a GSD that my wife could handle when I was gone. So far, Belle (the pup) has been great. She is 16 weeks and she is bigger and smarter than any other GSD pup I have ever owned at this age.
If she keeps developing the way she has over the last 2 months, it was money well spent.
abc-123 - Thanks for starting this thread. We're going to follow along too. We just lost our male GSD and the female is showing her years. Facts of life with a companion animal. Our problem is prejudice against what the AKC and unscrupulous breeders have done to the breed here in the States. (Our male was a rescue with almost every genetic fault possible to the breed; the female is 3/4 German - healthy as a (proverbial) horse and well outside the AKC standards.) It'll be hard to replace her - for a lot of reasons. Peregrino
Totally agree. I've had AKC Germans and they've been great dogs, but less hearty. Our last was Half AKC German (mother) and Australian Shepard (father). Not only was she VERY intelligent but had the health of a puppy until just before her death at 15 years. Wonderful guard dog, but wouldn't snap at you even if you took her food from under her nose.
Got our new GSD pup coming tomorrow. Going to the airport to pick him up. Will post a pic when I can. Can hardley wait.
Going to feed him on a raw diet. My wife is a good sport... she was cutting up beef kidneys, and chicken necks and other assorted stuff today getting ready for the pup!
I don't post very often but I love my German Shepherd. So, here is my GSD "Kaiser" in a stupid hat. Obviously a vicious killing machine. (11 Mo's Old)
So, does the pup have a name yet?
Pat
I don't post very often but I love my German Shepherd. So, here is my GSD "Kaiser" in a stupid hat. Obviously a vicious killing machine. (11 Mo's Old)
Haven't met an owner yet that didn't love their GSD. They are wonderful, amazing animals. Our last one was the first for either my wife or I and now we'll have no other as our "primary" dog. We may have another dog(s)... but we'll always own a GSD as long as we own dogs.
Ladyhawke
04-13-2008, 20:42
abc_123 congrats on the new puppy. To all that have posted pictures of their GSDs- all I can say is wow; what beauties. Peregrino posted pictures of our puppy Rian earlier- he is now 6 months old and weighs in at 72 plus lbs and still growing. :) Too smart for his own good; keeps us all on our toes to include the old girl giving him what for in the photo. Hopefully Peregrino will post updated pics soon.
Thanks, Ladyhawke
Named the new pup "Asco" in honor of our last GSD. That was his given name.
He is awesome. A little furry alligator, but very settled even given all the changes for him in the last day... plane flight, time change, new surroundings etc.
I had forgotten how smart these dogs are. This one will have his new name down and be coming when called within a day or so, no doubt about it. Really cool to watch them learn.
It took him about 2 seconds to figure out that the ground beef that we mixed into his dry food was actually food... so I dont' think that the raw food will be a problem.
Also cool is the fact that I now have kids that are old enough to take him out and play with him to burn off some of that puppy energy. :lifter
Ladyhawke
04-15-2008, 16:58
For anyone getting assigned to Ft. Bragg and thinking of living in quarters on post; be aware that Ft. Bragg now has about 5 breeds of dogs (give or take) that are banned from post housing. Two that I know for sure are Pit Bulls and Rottweillers; if I find out the other breeds I will post. Just FYI
Peregrino
10-05-2010, 21:04
Time to revive an old thread. We lost our female GSD in May; tough times all around. But - the circle of life continues. The hellion she raised is now passing it forward to her replacement. The peace and quiet (sorta) was abruptly ended Labor Day when we drove to Chattanooga to pick up Rhianna. She's now 12 weeks old and into everything. Rian has been phenomenal; mostly tolerant and as nurturing as a male ever gets, even with the puppy caterwauling and hanging off his scruff (though he does appreciate the fact that she can't get on the bed yet!)
Good on you, I would not want to be connected to the business end of that piece of "machinery".
Damn puppies, always into things.
"Look, if it's not too much trouble, you can always send that little one out West, we need better security along the property line of the ranch".
WD
Time to revive an old thread. We lost our female GSD in May; tough times all around. But - the circle of life continues. The hellion she raised is now passing it forward to her replacement. The peace and quiet (sorta) was abruptly ended Labor Day when we drove to Chattanooga to pick up Rhianna. She's now 12 weeks old and into everything. Rian has been phenomenal; mostly tolerant and as nurturing as a male ever gets, even with the puppy caterwauling and hanging off his scruff (though he does appreciate the fact that she can't get on the bed yet!)
It's funny how you can smile with tears in your eyes. I've been there so many times...every scar a memory! ;)
Pat
Time to revive an old thread. We lost our female GSD in May; tough times all around. But - the circle of life continues. The hellion she raised is now passing it forward to her replacement. The peace and quiet (sorta) was abruptly ended Labor Day when we drove to Chattanooga to pick up Rhianna. She's now 12 weeks old and into everything. Rian has been phenomenal; mostly tolerant and as nurturing as a male ever gets, even with the puppy caterwauling and hanging off his scruff (though he does appreciate the fact that she can't get on the bed yet!)
Sir,
Those are two great looking GSDs. I want a second one.. but HH6 has enough with our Working Line one we have now. He (Maxiumus) only Minds me, she can control him. But not the Kiddos.
Love to have mine do that Nurturing that yours is doing.
Great Tread!!