View Full Version : Booby traping OPFOR weapons?
Morning. The following was posted over on military.com. I was curious if any of you guys would be able to answer the questions posed or comment on it. If you consider it an OPSEC violation or just a dumb ass thing to discuss please feel free to flame my stupidity and disregard.
I've brought this up before, but I was wondering if it's legal for the US military to manufacture RPG rockets and ammunitions that would explode once fired.
I've voiced this idea on other boards about making these munitions and allowing them to be stolen by the Iraqi insurgents.
With a little luck the rockets and ammo would get distributed around Iraq before the terrorist and rebels figured out what they've got. When they decide to fire an RPG at our guys--BOOM! The rocket explodes instantly instead of going down range. The same for any rounds. Instead of firing, the AK round explodes in the chamber ruining the weapon and leaving the attacker defenseless.
Does this go against the rules of war? If not why aren't we doing it?
Thanks for any light y'all might be able to shed.
Dan
Ambush Master
05-03-2004, 08:02
I don't know about the "Legality" issue, but that very thing was done in Vietnam with Mortar Rounds, Hand Grenades and 7.62x39 Ammunition. It was done so effectively that we received US Manufactured 7.62x39 Ammo to use in our AKs and RPDs, that were used in our covert Ops. This topic is covered in both of Plaster's first SOG Books. I believe that the terms used were Pole Bean and Eldest Son Projects.
Martin
Sacamuelas
05-03-2004, 08:23
I remember reading about this same tactic being used by SEALs in a chapter written by R. Marcinko in Hunters and Shooters: an oral history of the US Navy SEALs in Vietnam which a compilation of different tales written by 13 different SEALs and by edited by Bill Fawcett. He stated that he thought the program was called "Poor Boy' but couldn't be sure of its exact name. This book did not seem to be as "dramatized" as some of his R. Marcinko's personal books.
Smokin Joe
05-03-2004, 09:24
My father in conjunction with Thia SF (The Queens Cobra's) booby trapped the VC's ammo caches buy swapping random bullets with "special" 7.62X39 rnds that were designed to explode once fired, sending the bolt through the VC's head.
This is your JAG speaking:
The U.S. Army defines a bobbytrap as "an explosive or other device designed to kill or injure an unsuspecting person performing a seemingly innocent act."
Based on that definition, it is DOD implementation of the Geneva and Hague Conventions that we will not use booby traps.
We are not being coy when we train and equip soldiers to emplace "anti-handling devices" on the bottom of landmines. An enemy sapper attempting to disarm a land mine is not an "unsuspecting person performing a seemingly innocent act."
Sabotage of an RPG or other weapon warhead is perfectly lawful, is also dangerous to the technician making the modification. I don't trust the quaity control of the warheads that I would be modifying.
I have worked with this and even have a somewhat humorous story if anyone is interested. In the first place this was a much more sophisticated program than is put forth here. These were not booby-traps as such, IMHO. These were manufactured munitions designed to be undetectable, even with X-Rays. They were packed in ChiCom and Soviet Block cases and were made to appear that they were the source. Maybe one or two rounds would be put in a case; and a case or two would be inserted into an enemy casche.. The objective was to create distrust of the Chicom and Soviet equipment (rather than casualties) in the minds of the VC and NVA.
U.S. Troops were instructed to never attmmpt to fire captured equipment but not the reason.
Ambush Master
05-03-2004, 19:04
From page 125 of John Plaster's first book on SOG:
"But polluting the enemy's currency was as nothing compared to SOG's most successful salting operation, Project Eldest Son, at various times also code-named Italian Green and later Pole Bean, which insinuated into the enemy's supply system cleverly sabotaged AK-47 and mortar ammunition that blew up in the weapons, killing or wounding his soldiers."
That's straight from the Bible !!
Later.
Martin
Well folks, as I said I have inserted the stuff. It was always an alternate mission if a suitable casche could be located. I always swore that I wouldn't do so but when the occasion arose, duty took over. We found a casche in a wooded area and with no one around. I called it in and asked for the "Sandia". We located a suitable LZ, actually a hole in the canopy they lowered the material through, and waited for our delivery. They kept refering to the material as "the mail". Just before the arrival I got a message to save the mail bags. I presumed they were referring to the bags that the material was delivered. As it turned out they delivered the material in two mail bags with "U.S. Mail" stenciled on them How clandestine can you be? That night the mail bags actually came in handy since it was drizzling and cold and the indig took turns using them for sleeping bags.
Thanks for your input guys. Appriciate it.