View Full Version : What if you fail?
I've been interested in joining SF for some time now. The only problem that I have is that I am a U.S. Resident and as you all know that you have to be a U.S. Citizen in order to turn in a packet.
Well I went ahead and joined the Army to speed up my citizenship status. It's now just a matter of time till I get my citizenship. My question is this.
What happens if you pass through selection but fail out of the school process? My friend that was part of 10th group (as support, he was not SF) told me that if you fail then your MOS changes to 11B. I thought that if you do not make it then you just get sent back to your unit. I do not doubt my ability to make it whether it is physically not mentally, but there is always that small chance. If for some un-Godly reason I were not to be able to make the cut then I wouldn't want my MOS to be changed to 11B.
If this question has been asked before then I sincerely apologize, I did use the search engine but nothing appeared. Well thank you in advance and I hope one day I experience what some of you have experienced.
Snaquebite
11-07-2007, 14:35
:munchin
EDIT: Nismo, I'd listen to TR (Below). Apparently he's in a really good mood today. :rolleyes:
What I will add is this... The question you posed "What if I fail?" has already placed you in a category and mindset to do just that.
The Reaper
11-07-2007, 14:41
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
-Theodore Roosevelt
You are mixing apples and oranges.
AD soldiers who pass selection but are dropped from the SFQC are reassigned with their MOS (they are not actual 18s till the end of the course) according to the needs of the Army.
18X enlistees who fail are reassigned as 11Bs according to the needs of the Army.
This is covered thoroughly in the Intros and stickies. The people we are looking for can find that info. Thay have also introduced themselves in the proper place, as we ask all new members to do in their registration message. Please do some reading before starting new threads next time, and do not post again till you have introduced yourself.
And if you are thinking about failing, you are already there. Don't unpack, just plan on dropping out after the PT test and catching the first thing smoking back to your unit.
Best of luck.
TR
NousDefionsDoc
11-07-2007, 17:43
What the Boss said.
I will add only this: What if you pass?
Know this, when you are old and grey, under most circumstances, you will not regret the things you tried and/or accomplished, it will be the things you never attempted that you will regret.
From the Profile:
Interests:
Spending time with my Wife and my daughter, walking my dogs, smoking cigs
I'm not sure TR meant a pun, but given the physical demands, the only thing smoking after selection might well be you. The physical demands are not even the largest hurdle to selection.
And selection is not the end, it is the beginning.
Firewolf
11-07-2007, 20:27
A small aside:
in '03, my basic training platoon contained 41 18X's. When we donned berets, 11 of us stood there proudly, the only 'hell fighters' who never said "what if I fail?"
Too many that fell by the wayside asked that question. Quite a few of the early quitters even had infantry units they had hoped they'd fail into. Some movie quote that comes to mind goes " You acquiesce to defeat before you even begin."
For the people who mutter "too hard, too heavy, too far, too much..." Your rucksack is in the hall.
Included is the saddest song in the world, just for those waiting for the truck. :boohoo
Know this, when you are old and grey, under most circumstances, you will not regret the things you tried and/or accomplished, it will be the things you never attempted that you will regret. "Credit to PARA"
This should be one of the posts of the year. I'm 34 and I kick myself in the behind everytime I log in.
bricklayer
11-07-2007, 21:27
Know this, when you are old and grey, under most circumstances, you will not regret the things you tried and/or accomplished, it will be the things you never attempted that you will regret. "Credit to PARA"
This should be one of the posts of the year. I'm 34 and I kick myself in the behind everytime I log in.
I was gonna say the same thing until I scrolled down and saw your post! But if you want it bad enough dont let age stop you! Thats what I tell myself everyday.
From the Profile:
I'm not sure TR meant a pun, but given the physical demands, the only thing smoking after selection might well be you. The physical demands are not even the largest hurdle to selection.
And selection is not the end, it is the beginning.
Yes I understand, I stopped smoking a while ago, I just haven't updated that. I do know that going through selection is just the start point and I will be damn sure that I am at the upmost physical condition. Thankyou for the advice I do greatly appreciate it.
This is covered thoroughly in the Intros and stickies. The people we are looking for can find that info. Thay have also introduced themselves in the proper place, as we ask all new members to do in their registration message. Please do some reading before starting new threads next time, and do not post again till you have introduced yourself.
And if you are thinking about failing, you are already there. Don't unpack, just plan on dropping out after the PT test and catching the first thing smoking back to your unit.
Best of luck.
TR
I went ahead and introduced myself, sorry I didn't take care of that prior to posting.
I am not thinking of failing nor do I intend on failing. I am not interested in this because of some video games or some movie I watched. The reason I want to do this is something that I cannot describe. I know it might sound a bit corny but it's true. Thanks again for your information, I do greatly appreciate it.
LongWire
11-10-2007, 19:48
Yes I understand, I stopped smoking a while ago, I just haven't updated that.
Guess you're not in any hurry, even 2 days after the fact. Thats cool no problem........I'm sure you'll make it through Selection...........:rolleyes:
Do yourself a favor, just keep cooking. We have no time to supervise you!!!!!!
OK, it's been a long time since I last posted but I read this with interest. So what if you fail..big deal...it happens..but, if you think about failure, you're already destined to fail. What's my point? Sometimes to succeed you may fail, but the true measure is that you "never quit". I've said this statement hundreds if not thousands of times. Quitting is failing..maybe the post should have been "What if I quit"?
Daver sends....
OK, it's been a long time since I last posted but I read this with interest. So what if you fail..big deal...it happens..but, if you think about failure, you're already destined to fail. What's my point? Sometimes to succeed you may fail, but the true measure is that you "never quit". I've said this statement hundreds if not thousands of times. Quitting is failing..maybe the post should have been "What if I quit"?
Daver sends....
Good point
Guess you're not in any hurry, even 2 days after the fact. Thats cool no problem........I'm sure you'll make it through Selection...........:rolleyes:
Do yourself a favor, just keep cooking. We have no time to supervise you!!!!!!
With all due respect, I don't think changing my profile shows lack of persistence, determination or dedication. However, I went ahead and changed so there won't be any misconceptions on my mindset about Special Forces.
I see what you guys mean by always being evaluated. In a way I thank you, stuff like this shows me that even the slightest mistake doesn't go unnoticed.
With all due respect, I don't think changing my profile shows lack of persistence, determination or dedication.
You're right. What it shows is a lack of interest in following the rules and customs of a "foreign" culture you're trying to enter. Just as this casual, indifferent attitude doesn't endear you to us, it would most certainly not endear you to whatever foreign culture with which you may find yourself attempting to gain rapport. No rapport, no mutual respect--no mutual respect, no chance of accomplishing your mission. This means you're a failure to your team, the Army and your nation. Congratulations, Mr. Self-Imposed Failure.
Every little bit counts. The things you practice, intentionally or unconciously, are the things you will do when things get tough. What can you do or improve today to ensure success tomorrow?
brownapple
11-12-2007, 00:44
You're right. What it shows is a lack of interest in following the rules and customs of a "foreign" culture you're trying to enter. Just as this casual, indifferent attitude doesn't endear you to us, it would most certainly not endear you to whatever foreign culture with which you may find yourself attempting to gain rapport. No rapport, no mutual respect--no mutual respect, no chance of accomplishing your mission. This means you're a failure to your team, the Army and your nation. Congratulations, Mr. Self-Imposed Failure.
Every little bit counts. The things you practice, intentionally or unconciously, are the things you will do when things get tough. What can you do or improve today to ensure success tomorrow?
Bingo.
Nismo,
Here was an assessment easier than any one you will face in the Q or on a team... and you failed already.
You're right. What it shows is a lack of interest in following the rules and customs of a "foreign" culture you're trying to enter. Just as this casual, indifferent attitude doesn't endear you to us, it would most certainly not endear you to whatever foreign culture with which you may find yourself attempting to gain rapport. No rapport, no mutual respect--no mutual respect, no chance of accomplishing your mission. This means you're a failure to your team, the Army and your nation. Congratulations, Mr. Self-Imposed Failure.
Every little bit counts. The things you practice, intentionally or unconciously, are the things you will do when things get tough. What can you do or improve today to ensure success tomorrow?
So by me not changing my personal information from smoking to not smoking you’re telling me that I am a failure to the Army, and my country? That might be taking it a little to the extreme. I understand that any discrepancies on my profile must be changed, but that still does not say that I have a nonchalant attitude toward selection nor the Q course. I spend hours on end reading post on this sight, endless hours at the gym to get myself close to perfection, ruck marches after ruck marches at all hours of the night by myself. Once I return from R&R that’s when the real conditioning and training will begin.
I also understand that the physical part is just a portion of what to expect. I have learned through post and post that mentally you have to be strong. I have learned that if I am not there mentally then I shouldn't even waste my time doing the research. This I know.
Now some of you might have taken it disrespectful that I did not change my profile ASAP but that was not my intention. I am a strong believer that respect is earned and not given. However, I have great respect for the people that are part of any group. Because those of you that have made it, show me that both selection and the Q course is not an impossible task. Now if I do not have your respect that is fine. I did not come here to look for friends or to be liked. I came here for information and also guidance. Regardless of what is said about my lack of dedication or the title of this thread, "What if I fail"? I do not question myself if I would pass or not pass; my question was really quite simple, if my MOS would be changed.
But again I take the good along with the bad. I see that your location is Colorado Springs. That’s actually where I'm trying to go once this whole experience is over. Two months prior to leaving I'm going to get a hold of my Branch Manager and asked to be sent to Ft. Carson. The way I see it, it I am able to part of support for 10th group then a better chance I have to be sent through selection instead of being sent from a Transportation Unit.
brownapple
11-12-2007, 04:08
Nismo,
You do realize there is more to assessment than just physical and mental strength, don't you?
Train, Advise, Assist.
Do those three words mean anything to you?
How about "De Oppresso Liber"
If you can't figure out how to fit into a culture (and this website clearly has its own culture), then you aren't gonna cut it on an ODA.
Nismo,
You do realize there is more to assessment than just physical and mental strength, don't you?
Train, Advise, Assist.
Do those three words mean anything to you?
How about "De Oppresso Liber"
If you can't figure out how to fit into a culture (and this website clearly has its own culture), then you aren't gonna cut it on an ODA.
I understand what you are telling me and thankyou for putting it so clearly.
It's funny you said "De Oppresson Liber". Like my short story in the introduction thread. When I decided to go this route, it all began with a maroon beret I found in the parking lot of PetsMart in Fayetteville. It had the SF Flash with the words "De Oppresso Liber". I took it off and sat in the car, I asked my wife what it was for and what it meant. She told me, "Liberate the Oppressed, it's the flash for Special Forces". Those words have stuck with me all this time and remember it as if it was yesterday. Hahaha I still have it till this day.
I see what your telling me and I comprehend one-hundred percent. Again, I thankyou for your advice and guidance.
brownapple
11-12-2007, 11:31
I understand what you are telling me and thankyou for putting it so clearly.
It's funny you said "De Oppresson Liber". Like my short story in the introduction thread. When I decided to go this route, it all began with a maroon beret I found in the parking lot of PetsMart in Fayetteville. It had the SF Flash with the words "De Oppresso Liber". I took it off and sat in the car, I asked my wife what it was for and what it meant. She told me, "Liberate the Oppressed, it's the flash for Special Forces". Those words have stuck with me all this time and remember it as if it was yesterday. Hahaha I still have it till this day.
I see what your telling me and I comprehend one-hundred percent. Again, I thankyou for your advice and guidance.
Keep that attitude, learn from your mistakes (really learn, apply the corrections consistently) and you just might have a chance.
I'd say "good luck" but it isn't luck you need. It is awareness, preparation and more than anything else, determination.
Keep that attitude, learn from your mistakes (really learn, apply the corrections consistently) and you just might have a chance.
I'd say "good luck" but it isn't luck you need. It is awareness, preparation and more than anything else, determination.
Roger that
I cut some of your words but the areas below deserve some comments.
1. From Nismo..I am a strong believer that respect is earned and not given. This is very true.....and you haven't earned ours at this point by endlessly writing these long posts.
2. From Nismo..Now if I do not have your respect that is fine....You're correct with this one. You don't and that's NOT FINE at all.
3. From Nismo..Re: Fort Carson...That’s actually where I'm trying to go once this whole experience is over......Please clarify what "Experience" you're talking about here. Is it SFAS and if you're lucky, the SFQC or something else? SF is not an "Experience"..it's a way of life.....for life. If you want an "Experience", go see the Blue Man Group, but if you want to be part of something that is worthy of only a select few, LISTEN MORE, and TALK/WRITE LESS, and maybe you can make it here someday! There is zero tolerance for THIN SKIN in SF and we see through yours.
You have been given way more information and patience than the average guy just looking around here. Use that information and understand that the men here have accomplished much and excelled greatly at what you now desire to become...
Good Luck.
3. From Nismo..Re: Fort Carson...That’s actually where I'm trying to go once this whole experience is over......Please clarify what "Experience" you're talking about here. Is it SFAS and if you're lucky, the SFQC or something else? SF is not an "Experience"..it's a way of life.....for life. If you want an "Experience", go see the Blue Man Group, but if you want to be part of something that is worthy of only a select few, LISTEN MORE, and TALK/WRITE LESS, and maybe you can make it here someday! There is zero tolerance for THIN SKIN in SF and we see through yours.
Good Luck.
Deployment. This deployment is an experience.
Nismo,
I don't think you are getting it. Read more and post less. If you can't resist the urge to comment every time someone responds to you, you will have a real hard time at SFAS and if you make it the Q-Course. Just read what these guys are telling you and stop replying all the time. You can learn a lot here by just soaking up the information put out on this site. Good luck to you.
Novice Snowflake
11-13-2007, 11:06
Amen to that. Listening to the guys who have been there and done it really helps you prepare for basic training then eventually SF.
At the V.F.W. I was told that I must have the attitude and the mentality that I will never quit, no matter what and learn how to win, always. To be good at everything and have the hunger to learn how to be a professional, tough soldier. He said that being macho, stupid and arrogant in SF will get you killed and nowhere in SF. He said that Special Operations is always a team effort.
whitesnake
11-14-2007, 11:34
First, you need to make the distinction between FAIL and QUIT. There are many who fail the course for various reasons. Not everyone is destined to be a Special Forces Soldier. There is no shame in failing if you have given it everything you got and been found lacking! However, regardless of your background(Airborne,Ranger,ETC) ,if you quit you don't deserve any respect. Your mindset must be "No matter what, I will not quit, I will graduate! Remember, this is just the first of many difficult tests, weather it's in training or deployed. So, plan to suck it up and DRIVE ON!