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Pete
10-30-2007, 09:41
Now I'm thinking - What does this cost the shipping industry?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8SJJD8O1&show_article=1

It's basicly in 2 places. How long before somebody sets up a hotel ship filled with guards at each end and rents them to ships passing through the area?

How many guards with NVGs & machine guns does it take to fend off a small group armed with RPGs and AKs coming up in a little boat?

Pete
11-05-2007, 11:16
Hmm;

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov05/0,4670,SomaliaPirates,00.html

Airbornelawyer
11-05-2007, 13:29
Go to http://www.shiptalk.com/index.asp

Search under the keyword "piracy" and you will find a number of recent articles on the problem.

hoot72
11-11-2007, 09:15
I could be wrong but my understanding of the situation is that the malaysian, indonesian and singaporean governments are/were against the use of mercs or armed "guards' on commercial ships, esp. ships that were going to harbour in any of the 3 countries ports..there was an incident last year or the year before and the malaysian government were pretty upset with it.

I think the number of piracy cases has dropped but, dont forget there are incidents everyday in west malaysia and sabah with fishermen getting robbed or disappearing out at sea, not necc. because of a bad storm. Of course, I am talking about commercial vs small boat attacks/raids by pirates.

The most common incident is stolen engines by armed pirates.

This is alot better though then the old day's when filipino "kumpits" used to get raided pretty often when they sailed from Zambonga to Labuan Island to do barter trade and you heard nasty stories of ship to ship combat and raids by pirates, including rapes and men being asked to jump into the sea and left to drown/die....

These days, they make daring night raids into sabah waters off semporna/lahad datu with super high speed boats, sat phones and tip off's from "friends" in semporna and lahad datu on where the marine police and navy boats are going to be and what ships are in/out of port...

Their intelligence seems to be better than the authorities, esp in malaysia and indonesia. The singaporeans seem to have their shit together as usual but its hard with only 1 of 3 being organized with the right assets and personel.

Malaysia and indonesia just dont have sufficient ships or men to conduct aggressive patrols along their borders...its just so pourous all over..

I have personally sneaked in and out of waters off Tawau before in and out of Tarakan without any problems. Its THAT easy...

Team Sergeant
11-11-2007, 10:20
Their intelligence seems to be better than the authorities, esp in malaysia and indonesia. The singaporeans seem to have their shit together as usual but its hard with only 1 of 3 being organized with the right assets and personel.

From what I've read its the same corrupt "authorities" and government officials feeding them the intelligence. If you pass through their territorial waters they demand your manifest, they see something they like they send their pirates to collect, nothing surprising there.


I have personally sneaked in and out of waters off Tawau before in and out of Tarakan without any problems. Its THAT easy...

And the reason we call them 3rd 4th and 5th world nations.

weatherall86
11-11-2007, 20:19
The current issue of the usually mediocre "Counter Terrorism" magazine (http://www.iacsp.com) has a decent article which gives an overview of modern day piracy. It's written by Dr. Edward J. Maggio, a professor of criminal justice at NYIT and director of their Center for Security and Disaster Response.

Addressing Pete's question directly, Dr. Maggio claims that, "piracy and hijackings of ships costs world shipping and industry around $16-$25 billion (per) year." He goes on to claim that, "only 10% of maritime piracy cases are ever reported" and that "only 1% of maritime pirates ever get caught."

Regarding defense:

On board weapons to crewmembers [sic] raises major issues. International law forbids the possession and use of weapons aboard ships. However when faced with fire, the reality is that a crew may want to fight fire with fire. It is also important to realize that the cargo of a ship (such as liquid nitrogen) may require that only a trained security group have access and use of weapons in the event of a pirate attack. Shooting to kill is a skill not known or experienced by most seafarers.

Security experts question whether seafarers can handle pirates. A small personal vessel may face 4-10 pirates. A major merchant ship may be attacked by upwards of 70 or more pirates with automatic weapons and military training. Three or four crewmembers [sic] are not enough to handle such a large-scale assault. Therefore private security firms and professional security agencies are more suited to the special needs of ships.

Currently it costs anywhere from $20,000 to $100,000 [USD, presumably] for a security firm to escort a ship through a location such as the Malacca straights [sic]. Most companies balk at the idea of such costs. Privately hired security personnel fall under the law of Asian nations as private citizens. However, the reality, in terms of the response of law enforcement, is the old saying "crime ends at the water." No cruise ship will admit armed guards are present on current vessels since it is considered bad business practice and would scare passengers.

Typing that out reminded me of how much I dislike this magazine's lack of editorial oversight and dearth of cited sources for explicit claims. That said, I hope this is useful.

WA86

hoot72
11-12-2007, 03:32
The current issue of the usually mediocre "Counter Terrorism" magazine (http://www.iacsp.com) has a decent article which gives an overview of modern day piracy. It's written by Dr. Edward J. Maggio, a professor of criminal justice at NYIT and director of their Center for Security and Disaster Response.

Addressing Pete's question directly, Dr. Maggio claims that, "piracy and hijackings of ships costs world shipping and industry around $16-$25 billion (per) year." He goes on to claim that, "only 10% of maritime piracy cases are ever reported" and that "only 1% of maritime pirates ever get caught."

Regarding defense:



Typing that out reminded me of how much I dislike this magazine's lack of editorial oversight and dearth of cited sources for explicit claims. That said, I hope this is useful.

WA86


The irony is back in 92, my texan room mate actually proposed the idea of setting up a fleet security company in singapore or malaysia for ship protection in the Melaka Straits and in North Borneo. It never came to anything but it was an interesting idea back then....

JGarcia
11-12-2007, 08:39
There already on that ship security business thing. Ex Navy guy I knew from another contract worked for some Australian based business that provided protective services to ships for a fee. I can ask what the name of the firm was if any are interested.

hoot72
11-12-2007, 19:31
There already on that ship security business thing. Ex Navy guy I knew from another contract worked for some Australian based business that provided protective services to ships for a fee. I can ask what the name of the firm was if any are interested.

Do they operate in the Melaka Straits? I gather they do have permits to carry fire arms on board....

hoot72
11-14-2007, 06:03
Its an election year so you can see the rhetoric clearly.

Link: http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/NewsBreak/20071114140447/Article/index_html

No excuse for outsiders to meddle in Melaka Straits security management

BERNAMA


KUALA LUMPUR, WED:

Outsiders have no excuse to interfere in security management over Malaysian waters, particularly the Straits of Melaka, as the sea channel is safe.
Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department, Senator Datuk Abdul Rahman Suliman said that after the establishment of the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) in November 2005, piracy and robbery cases in the Melaka Straits had tremendously declined.

“With regards to the situation in the straits, the United States and other quarters cannot deny that it is safe. There is no reason for them to come in to guard the area,” he said in his reply to Datuk Paduka Badruddin Amiruldin (BN-Jerai) in the Dewan Rakyat here today.

Abdul Rahman said each year, more than 60,000 vessels plied the Melaka Straits and most stopped at the country’s ports to load or unload goods.

He said that based on the 2002 report, 24 piracy incidents were recorded but after the MMEA was set up, only two cases were reported last year and they occurred in neighbouring waters.
“Two out of 60,000 vessels that used the Melaka Straits each year is a small number and this should not render the channel unsafe by any country.” _ Replying to a supplementary question from Datuk Bung Moktar Radin (BN-Kinabatangan), Abdul Rahman said so far, the government had no plans to impose toll or tax each time the vessels exited from the ports.

This was because the loading and unloading of goods at the ports was already contributing to the country’s economy while more ships were using the Melaka Straits and the country’s port facilities, he added.

Team Sergeant
11-14-2007, 09:23
Do they operate in the Melaka Straits? I gather they do have permits to carry fire arms on board....


In order to carry weapons on board the ship would have to secure permits/permission of every sovereign nation whose waters it passes through.

Key word being "every".

FYI

sf11b_p
11-14-2007, 15:04
I believe it was History Channel had a doc on this, "The new pirates". It talked briefly about the early history to present and losses to the shipping industry. It also went into attacks on small (fishing, personal craft) and commercial shipping and cruise ships. It discussed the PMC or security force industry and issues including reps from several companies. It went into the corrupt officials and "piracy" gangs throughout the Middle East, African coastal waters and Asia.

It also mentioned the terrorist angle including Achilles Laurel and the USS Cole. It discussed an interesting incident of a freighter IIRC, that was boarded and taken but the crew released with neither ship or cargo kept. In this incident the "pirates" seemed interested only in the maneuvering and handling of the ship and they took technical and operating manuals.

It also went into an attack by small boats on a cruise ship 100 miles off of Somalia. The ship was hit with small arms and RPGs. The crew drove off the attack with an acoustical? noise weapon and radical maneuvering. There seemed to be some suggestion that the practice of paying off "pirates" may have had something to do with the attack.

The doc stated privated security forces were subject to the laws of whatever state claimed the local waters. That some ships now carried arms regardless of law, that they regarded it as what happens at sea stays at sea.

Added

It also went into an incident in Asia of a Chinese ship taken by a pirate gang that disguised itself as an anti-smuggling boarding party. The entire crew was killed by the gang. The Chinese caught the gang including corrupt official who supplied uniforms and boat. The Chinese had a swift trial and public execution, that seemed to drastically curtail piracy in their waters.

hoot72
12-02-2007, 19:07
PM: Malaysia against foreign forces patrolling strait


Link: http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/12/3/nation/19645005&sec=nation

LANGKAWI: Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi welcomes foreign monetary and technical aid to enhance security in the Straits of Malacca.

But he is against foreign forces patrolling the busy waterway.

The United States had proposed that an international force, namely the US-led Regional Maritime Security Initiative (RMSI), patrol the Straits of Malacca.

“We are strongly against any involvement of foreign assets to ensure security of the strait,” said Abdullah in his keynote address read out by Defence Ministry secretary-general Datuk Abu Bakar Abdullah at the opening of the Lima 2007 International Maritime Conference at Awana Porto Malai here yesterday.

“The presence of stakeholders with differing interests at the (Lima) conference reflects Malaysia’s commitment to being transparent and open about how best we can manage these issues (related to security of the strait),” he said.

Abdullah noted that the strait was one of the world’s key strategic waterways, as more than 600,000 vessels ply it annually, ferrying 30% of the world’s trade and 80% of Japan's oil.

“We are using this forum (the Maritime Convention) as a vehicle to inform the international maritime community that Malaysia is serious in its actions to ensure safety and security in the Straits of Malacca,” he said.

Abu Bakar later told newsmen that the ministry was looking into procuring better maritime patrol surveillance aircraft.

Malaysia Maritime Enforcement Agency northern region head First Admiral Zammani Mod Amin said that Malaysia and Indonesia were against having forces from outside the region manning the security of the strait.

Singapore, which is a participant of the US-led RMSI, had been the “leading voice” advocating an external presence in the strait, he said.

Lima maritime organiser HW Lima Sdn Bhd managing director Ahmad Dzuhri Abdul Wahab said the event had attracted eight warships and a submarine from eight countries.

“We also have 150 exhibitors from 20 countries. This is the biggest ever maritime exhibition,” he said.

hoot72
12-04-2007, 06:29
Warning against private security firms in Malacca Straits

Link: http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/12/4/nation/20071204194120&sec=nation

LANGKAWI: Malaysia has issued a stern warning to international shipping communities that hire private security contractors in its territorial waters.

Royal Malaysia Navy chief Admiral Tan Sri Ramlan Mohamed Ali warned that the armed forces would take stern action to deter such contractors from operating in Malaysian waters.

“No permission has been given for any private security contractor to operate, provide services or protect ships in the Straits of Malacca specifically and Malaysian waters generally,” he said.

Admiral Ramlan said the activities of such contractors posed a threat to Malaysian security and undermined the country’s maritime sovereignty and integrity.

“Malaysia does not want private security contractors to set a precedence for other foreign forces to enter and take control of the Straits,” he said.

Admiral Ramlan also said that the security formula used by the littoral states in the Straits of Malacca could be “exported” to other states.

“It is an example of how regional and international users can benefit through security co-operations between littoral states,” he said during a welcoming reception at the Lima 2007 maritime exhibition hall here Tuesday.

The tri-party “Eyes-in-the-Sky” and Malacca Straits Surface Patrol initiatives were example of such co-operations, he said.

This was a one-of-a-kind “security system model” in the world where littoral states (Indonesia. Malaysia and Singapore) played pro-active roles in ensuring safety and security in regional waters.

“It also proves to the international community that the littoral states are serious in ensuring the safety and security of the Straits,” he said.

Airbornelawyer
01-16-2008, 20:13
http://eaglespeak.blogspot.com/

Blog by a Navy Reserve captain on piracy issues.

vsvo
01-22-2008, 12:37
Kaplan links piracy in the Strait of Malacca to the USN pulling out of the Philippines. He also has some interesting things to say about maritime coalitions and their potential impact on piracy and terrorism.

Kaplan writes good stuff, but it's hard to focus on it given his penchant for self-aggrandizing chest-beating. Check out the opening paragraph in the article.

America's Elegant Decline (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200711/america-decline)

hoot72
01-23-2008, 00:23
I think he has his geography mixed up and has probably not realized the US Navy has a naval yard and station in Singapore, which is right next to the Straits of Melaka.

The closing of the naval base in the Phillipines was due to alot of political pressure within the Phillipines on top of an end to the cold war at the time. But given China's expansion plans of its Navy, perhaps he does have a point about reviewing that decision.

But as far as Piracy is concerned, I think he is wrong.