View Full Version : American kids, dumber than dirt
frostfire
10-29-2007, 18:55
Not sure where this one belongs. :( Sad indeed and must be old news to the folks here
San Francisco Gate, October 24, 2007
American kids, dumber than dirt
Warning: The next generation might just be the biggest pile of idiots in U.S. history
By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
I have this ongoing discussion with a longtime reader who also just so happens to be a longtime Oakland high school teacher, a wonderful guy who's seen generations of teens come and generations go and who has a delightful poetic sensibility and quirky outlook on his life and his family and his beloved teaching career.
And he often writes to me in response to something I might've written about the youth of today, anything where I comment on the various nefarious factors shaping their minds and their perspectives and whether or not, say, EMFs and junk food and cell phones are melting their brains and what can be done and just how bad it might all be.
His response: It is not bad at all. It's absolutely horrifying.
My friend often summarizes for me what he sees, firsthand, every day and every month, year in and year out, in his classroom. He speaks not merely of the sad decline in overall intellectual acumen among students over the years, not merely of the astonishing spread of lazy slackerhood, or the fact that cell phones and iPods and excess TV exposure are, absolutely and without reservation, short-circuiting the minds of the upcoming generations. Of this, he says, there is zero doubt.
Nor does he speak merely of the notion that kids these days are overprotected and wussified and don't spend enough time outdorrs and don't get any real exercise and therefore can't, say, identify basic plants, or handle a tool, or build, well, anything at all. Again, these things are a given. Widely reported, tragically ignored, nothing new.
No, my friend takes it all a full step — or rather, leap — further. It is not merely a sad slide. It is not just a general dumbing down. It is far uglier than that.
We are, as far as urban public education is concerned, essentially at rock bottom. We are now at a point where we are essentially churning out ignorant teens who are becoming ignorant adults and society as a whole will pay dearly, very soon, and if you think the hordes of easily terrified, mindless fundamentalist evangelical Christian lemmings have been bad for the soul of this country, just wait.
It's gotten so bad that, as my friend nears retirement, he says he is very seriously considering moving out of the country so as to escape what he sees will be the surefire collapse of functioning American society in the next handful of years due to the absolutely irrefutable destruction, the shocking — and nearly hopeless — dumb-ification of the American brain. It is just that bad.
Now, you may think he's merely a curmudgeon, a tired old teacher who stopped caring long ago. Not true. Teaching is his life. He says he loves his students, loves education and learning and watching young minds awaken. Problem is, he is seeing much less of it. It's a bit like the melting of the polar ice caps. Sure, there's been alarmist data about it for years, but until you see it for yourself, the deep visceral dread doesn't really hit home.
He cites studies, reports, hard data, from the appalling effects of television on child brain development (i.e.; any TV exposure before 6 years old and your kid's basic cognitive wiring and spatial perceptions are pretty much scrambled for life), to the fact that, because of all the insidious mandatory testing teachers are now forced to incorporate into the curriculum, of the 182 school days in a year, there are 110 when such testing is going on somewhere at Oakland High. As one of his colleagues put it, "It's like weighing a calf twice a day, but never feeding it."
But most of all, he simply observes his students, year to year, noting all the obvious evidence of teens' decreasing abilities when confronted with even the most basic intellectual tasks, from understanding simple history to working through moderately complex ideas to even (in a couple recent examples that particularly distressed him) being able to define the words "agriculture," or even "democracy." Not a single student could do it.
It gets worse. My friend cites the fact that, of the 6,000 high school students he estimates he's taught over the span of his career, only a small fraction now make it to his grade with a functioning understanding of written English. They do not know how to form a sentence. They cannot write an intelligible paragraph. Recently, after giving an assignment that required drawing lines, he realized that not a single student actually knew how to use a ruler.
It is, in short, nothing less than a tidal wave of dumb, with once-passionate, increasingly exasperated teachers like my friend nearly powerless to stop it. The worst part: It's not the kids' fault. They're merely the victims of a horribly failed educational system.
Then our discussion often turns to the meat of it, the bigger picture, the ugly and unavoidable truism about the lack of need among the government and the power elite in this nation to create a truly effective educational system, one that actually generates intelligent, thoughtful, articulate citizens.
Hell, why should they? After all, the dumber the populace, the easier it is to rule and control and launch unwinnable wars and pass laws telling them that sex is bad and TV is good and God knows all, so just pipe down and eat your Taco Bell Double-Supremo Burrito and be glad we don't arrest you for posting dirty pictures on your cute little blog.
This is about when I try to offer counterevidence, a bit of optimism. For one thing, I've argued generational relativity in this space before, suggesting maybe kids are no scarier or dumber or more dangerous than they've ever been, and that maybe some of the problem is merely the same old awkward generation gap, with every current generation absolutely convinced the subsequent one is terrifically stupid and malicious and will be the end of society as a whole. Just the way it always seems.
I also point out how, despite all the evidence of total public-education meltdown, I keep being surprised, keep hearing from/about teens and youth movements and actions that impress the hell out of me. Damn kids made the Internet what it is today, fer chrissakes. Revolutionized media. Broke all the rules. Still are.
Hell, some of the best designers, writers, artists, poets, chefs, and so on that I meet are in their early to mid-20s. And the nation's top universities are still managing, despite a factory-churning mentality, to crank out young minds of astonishing ability and acumen. How did these kids do it? How did they escape the horrible public school system? How did they avoid the great dumbing down of America? Did they never see a TV show until they hit puberty? Were they all born and raised elsewhere, in India and Asia and Russia? Did they all go to Waldorf or Montessori and eat whole-grain breads and play with firecrackers and take long walks in wild nature? Are these kids flukes? Exceptions? Just lucky?
My friend would say, well, yes, that's precisely what most of them are. Lucky, wealthy, foreign-born, private-schooled ... and increasingly rare. Most affluent parents in America — and many more who aren't — now put their kids in private schools from day one, and the smart ones give their kids no TV and minimal junk food and no video games. (Of course, this in no way guarantees a smart, attuned kid, but compared to the odds of success in the public school system, it sure seems to help). This covers about, what, 3 percent of the populace?
As for the rest, well, the dystopian evidence seems overwhelming indeed, to the point where it might be no stretch at all to say the biggest threat facing America is perhaps not global warming, not perpetual warmongering, not garbage food or low-level radiation or way too much Lindsay Lohan, but a populace far too ignorant to know how to properly manage any of it, much less change it all for the better.
What, too fatalistic? Don't worry. Soon enough, no one will know what the word even means.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/10/24/notes102407.DTL&feed=rss.mmorfo%20rd
Mark Morford's Notes & Errata column appears every Wednesday and Friday on SFGate and in the Datebook section of the San Francisco Chronicle.
We are now at a point where we are essentially churning out ignorant teens who are becoming ignorant adults and society as a whole will pay dearly, very soon, and if you think the hordes of easily terrified, mindless fundamentalist evangelical Christian lemmings have been bad for the soul of this country, just wait.
You could only get away with that in a MSM (liberal) newspaper!
Kyobanim
10-30-2007, 03:47
You could only get away with that in a MSM (liberal) newspaper!
Only if it's in America. :lifter
Just about every kid I know can read do math and are actually quite bright. So I call shenanigans on the premise of his article. I will concede that there are an enormous amount of stupid people in the world but that has been the case from the dawn of time it is not the fault of TV or fluoride or "big" special education.
I am also mad, my generation (Generation X) was slated to be the end of the America, not this Johnny come lately generation. I will not let them get the credit for the death of America.:D
The Reaper
10-30-2007, 08:17
Just about every kid I know can read do math and are actually quite bright. So I call shenanigans on the premise of his article. I will concede that there are an enormous amount of stupid people in the world but that has been the case from the dawn of time it is not the fault of TV or fluoride or "big" special education.
I am also mad, my generation (Generation X) was slated to be the end of the America, not this Johnny come lately generation. I will not let them get the credit for the death of America.:D
I think this says more about the people you associate with than the actual average intelligence of kids today. There is an amazingly ignorant underclass of young urban dwellers out there today, many who could not identify the US on a world map with the countries labeled.
Do not confuse your sample with a statistically significant and balanced one.
TR
82ndtrooper
10-30-2007, 08:25
This is from San Francisco right ?
"Evangelical lemmings" Why do the far left insist on labeling anyone with a religious belief as "lemmings" ? Do they believe that all of us are handling rattlesnacks and talking in tongues ? Do they believe that sex is continually preached to be repressed and that our parishiner females must wear full body dresses with little or no neck line ? It's obvious that they have not been to any church lately, or for that matter in their entire lives.
If there ever was a cult in America, it's not evangelical christians that deserve the lable, it the far left moonbats on Air America and those types supporting Gay Rights Day parades in San Francisco. Now that's a cult.
I suppose national consensus reports show that our K-12 students are on average scoring lower on aptitude tests than say .......Japanese students ? I don't purort to know that answer definitively, but I'v witnessed an awful lot of young students are in fact in the honors classes and not being pushed through grade school or high school with average or below average standardized aptitudes for math, science, english, and history.
I do know one thing. My sons are both honors students and can wiz bang me in math anyday of the week.
The Reaper
10-30-2007, 08:28
This is from San Francisco right ?
"Evangelical lemmings" Why do the far left insist on labeling anyone with a religious belief as "lemmings" ? Do they believe that all of us are handling rattlesnacks and talking in tongues ? Do they believe that sex is continually preached to be repressed and that our parishiner females must wear full body dresses with little or no neck line ? It's obvious that they have not been to any church lately, or for that matter in their entire lives.
If there ever was a cult in America, it's not evangelical christians that deserve the lable, it the far left moonbats on Air America and those types supporting Gay Rights Day parades in San Francisco. Now that's a cult.
Why is it always about religion with you?
You are free to worship in any way you please, but this is not a religious board, and is not going to become one.
TR
Why is it always about religion with you?
You are free to worship in any way you please, but this is not a religious board, and is not going to become one.
TR
Sir, an honest question….Much of what I read about our historyand our leaders indicates that it always came back to religion for them as well.
How does one with a Christian world view enter into serious discussion of issues and leave out what it central to his/her belief system? These folks didn’t:
Did you know that 52 of the 55 signers of "The Declaration of Independence" were orthodox, deeply committed, Christians? The other three all believed in the Bible as the divine truth, the God of scripture, and His personal intervention. It is the same Congress that formed the American Bible Society, immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of Scripture for the people of this nation.
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." First Chief Justice of Supreme Court John Jay to Jedidiah Morse February 28, 1797
"The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it." John Marshall, in a letter to Jasper Adams, May 9, 1833, JSAC, p. 139. Marshall was Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1801-1835.
"We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations, and will raise up friends for us. The battle is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave . . . Is life so dear, or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry, in a speech March 23, 1775.
"The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His Apostles.... This is genuine Christianity and to this we owe our free constitutions of government." Noah Webster
"The fundamental basis of this nation's law was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in the right for anybody except the state. President Harry S. Truman
"It is no slight testimonial, both to the merit and worth of Christianity, that in all ages since its promulgation the great mass of those who have risen to eminence by their profound wisdom and integrity have recognized and reverenced Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the living God." President John Quincy Adams
"The Bible is the Rock on which this Republic rests." President Andrew Jackson
"America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. Ladies and gentlemen, I have a very simple thing to ask of you. I as of every man and woman in this audience that from this night on they will realize that part of the destiny of America lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Scripture." Woodrow Wilson, 1911, pre-Presidential campaign speech.
82nd
I believe that this site, like much of our country today, does not appreciate much in the way of religious expression. It is their house and it would be considerate to abide by their rules. Keep in mind that you have had a change in citizenship. Some here have not; and find your/our logic as quite foreign…..
Philippians Ch. 3
“Their mind is on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body”
frostfire
10-30-2007, 13:24
I've been working a lot recently with elementary school & high school students, as well as college freshmen/sophomore. While their physique tends to be way ahead of their age, their mental development/mindset is quite the opposite...or perhaps I'm expecting too much from these youngsters aka. being prudent and refusing to accept the 'ol excuse "kids will always be kids"
Hate to admit some reality to the article, but the few home-schooled kids that I've met were definitely different.
Kyobanim
10-30-2007, 16:08
82nd
I believe that this site, like much of our country today, does not appreciate much in the way of religious expression. It is their house and it would be considerate to abide by their rules. Keep in mind that you have had a change in citizenship. Some here have not; and find your/our logic as quite foreign…..
I find the fact that this topic has turned to a religious discourse rediculous.
sg1987, you might want to re-think that post of yours. Saying that the people on this site don't appreciate one of the basic freedoms is pretty close to heresy.
This is fooking stupid.
3SoldierDad
10-30-2007, 16:48
There is an amazingly ignorant underclass of young urban dwellers out there today, many who could not identify the US on a world map with the countries labeled.
Yep, this is true.
In our time many things are moving to the extreme - This is true with intelligence and ignorance.
I would submit for your consideration that, perhaps...
The smartest kids this nation has ever had are among us....
And, the dumbest kids this nation has ever had are among us....
The internet let's the ambitious be as smart as they want to be and it allows the slothful and indolent become as irresponsible as they want to be....
As an observer and father of three soldiers, I could carry the comparison into the military as well. Perhaps, the nation's best and worst soldiers are now in the military.
In a high-speed world everything will tend to move to the extreme.
The great battle between excellence and baseness is being waged all around us - The dramatic conflagration among us does indeed seem to be at a boil.
Hey, this is simply my opinion - As my boys like to remind me, I'm wrong once in a while. :)
Three Soldier Dad...Chuck
.
Mine just got their first SATs back, 1840 and 1825. They'll keep 'um.
Kids- you get out of them what you put into them. It's too bad far too many parents have other more important things to do.
I have to go to the Library in the morning - but after the little one's award ceremony. First things first.,
The title of the piece is incorrect. It should read: "San Francisco Bay area kids, dumber than dirt." This is their nuclear-free, gender-neutral, multi-cultural, non-judgmental, self-esteem worshiping, history-rewriting, sanctuary-city, old dead white-men hating utopia.
Pat
aricbcool
10-30-2007, 17:31
I would submit for your consideration that, perhaps...
The smartest kids this nation has ever had are among us....
And, the dumbest kids this nation has ever had are among us....
Well put. I was debating entering this discussion, because like Sten, many of the young people I know, and work with are very bright, and well informed. At the same time, there's no denying the widespread ignorance of much of America's youth. Your post sir, sums it for me.
--Aric
This thread reminded me of this...
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10384&highlight=school+system+work
Too many schools teaching about Johnny's (or Susie's) two mommies/daddies...and handing out birth control pills to 11 year olds. :rolleyes:
OK everybody step up and give it a try
http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/
I got an 85%, the average for high school grads is 51%ish.
Pull down and mash "Take the Quiz"
Where is the cheat sheet? That test is, well, you all know, not geared for the, I take offense to the fact that I wasn't around when some of those things happened too. And besides that it had no questions on it about Cops and Law Enforcement. Like who makes the best boot and the best baton or how many "keepers" should one have on his belt? Now that would be a test of epic proportions!:eek:
Peregrino
10-30-2007, 19:02
OK everybody step up and give it a try
http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/
I got an 85%, the average for high school grads is 51%ish.
Pull down and mash "Take the Quiz"
88.33 Interesting quiz. Reviewing the answers resulted in a couple Duuuuhs.
I got an 85%, the average for high school grads is 51%ish.88.33%...didn't do to well with ancient philosophers...
OK everybody step up and give it a try
http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/
I got an 85%, the average for high school grads is 51%ish.
Pull down and mash "Take the Quiz"
Me too, 85%...but I got Fort Sumter, Gettysburg, Appomattox wrong and I knew that. Sheesh.
The Reaper
10-30-2007, 19:40
100%, but I got lucky with a couple of guesses.
My ancient philosophy and economics were troubling. History was dead on.
TR
Me too, 85%...but I got Fort Sumter, Gettysburg, Appomattox wrong and I knew that. Sheesh.key events in the War of Northern Aggression and you forgot them...:rolleyes:
GratefulCitizen
10-30-2007, 19:44
OK everybody step up and give it a try
http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/
I got an 85%, the average for high school grads is 51%ish.
Pull down and mash "Take the Quiz"
53/60 >> 88.33%
I answered 1, 32, 36, 38, 39, 58, 60 incorrectly.
Reading the answers for 1, 38, and 60 were Homer moments (doh!) for me.
GratefulCitizen
10-30-2007, 20:30
After taking that quiz, I just realized that most of the stuff on there I didn't learn in high-school or college.
Most of it was learned in elementary/middle school, from my parents/parents' library, or in the world at large.
The internet and the various Discovery channels have been nice places to induldge.
Both parents were career teachers (dad - English/history/math, mom - English/French/Spanish) and both loved to bloviate (hmmm...that must be from where I get it.).
My long-winded point: school is a place where you learn how to learn.
IMHO, much of the modern curriculum and scholastic dogma is getting the cart before the horse.
They try to get the end result while skipping the intermediate steps.
I taught high-school math for one year, and the students would frequently ask "when am I going to ever use this?".
My reply would be this analogy:
Most football players spend plenty of time in the weight room training.
During a football game, have you ever seen the referee stop the game, bring out the weight bench and a barbell, and see which team captain could lift the most?
Football players still lift weights.
The primary objective of school should be to exercise, discipline, and order the brain (and perhaps the body, in P.E.).
The secondary objective should be to train basic skills which enable the student to learn on their own.
The tertiary objective should be train actual skills which they may use in the business of being an adult member of our society.
Attempting to achieve secondary and tertiary objectives is no justification for sacrificing the primary objective.
3SoldierDad
10-30-2007, 20:48
OK everybody step up and give it a try
http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/
I got an 85%, the average for high school grads is 51%ish.
Pull down and mash "Take the Quiz"
I got 88.33% ... Fun quiz.
Humbling, too - Once you see what you missed and see that you missed mostly cause you didn't read carefully. :confused:
Three Soldier Dad...Chuck
51 out of 60=85%. Looking back, I picked Brown v. instead of Roe v. and I knew the correct answer, but that's an "attention to detail" deduction.
Pat
CoLawman
10-30-2007, 21:24
Let me just say that I outscored the Harvard and Yale seniors .............but barely. :D
bandycpa
10-30-2007, 21:36
40 out of 60 - 66.67%. Very sobering exam. I have some more studying to do on history and philosophy.
Did okay on business and economics, though (as I should have).
I think I'll print out the hardcopy and do some research.
Bandy
Distorted
10-31-2007, 03:12
98.33%, I missed #13--as usual, my attention to detail was lacking. I also had to get #31 by process of elimination, as I've never heard of 'Edmund Burke'. I learned most of this stuff in 9th/10th grade history, though the stuff I didn't get there, I got on my own. I was hoping to catch TR :mad:
The internet let's the ambitious be as smart as they want to be and it allows the slothful and indolent become as irresponsible as they want to be....
I agree with the above wholeheartedly.
Similar tests on other subjects would probably embarrass a lot more people than this one, sadly. To put it mildly, basic physics and biology, much less relativity and evolution are not well understood by the general public. I also seriously doubt that there are more than a few people outside of academia with actual understanding of the very relevant post-1950 history and histories of the third world--I don't have to tell you guys just how relevant that stuff is to the current situation. It should also be pointed out that anyone using google could ace that test, and just because something is new does not mean that it is bad.
As someone who played several online games competitively at the world-class level for several years, I feel the need to defend the gamers. While the importance of motor learning during childhood and pre-adolescence can't be overstated, fitness in adolescence isn't as important as people make it out to be--how many former football stars are completely out of shape, and how many bodybuilders were bullied by said football stars? When compared to something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkmv8pSKZyo can an argument really be made for pulling teens away from the screen to 'play sports'?
key events in the War of Northern Aggression and you forgot them...:rolleyes:
War of Northern Aggr...Oh, you mean the War of Righteous Northern Justice and Liberation. No, I knew those, just sloppy.
3SoldierDad
10-31-2007, 08:11
100% :lifter
Warrior Scholar.... kudos.
Three Soldier Dad...Chuck
.
Interesting topic.
On one hand, HS students today are tackling subjects that previous generations of students never saw until college. For example, the HS student in the 50's and 60's was tasked with Algebra and basic science, whereas the advanced HS student of today can take Calculus I and II for college credt, Physics I and II, etc. From that angle, it is hard to argue that the student of today is "dumber" than those who came before him.
On the other hand......
It can also be argued that the gap between the "smart" and "dumb" students is wider now than ever before. While the advanced student is talking Calculus II, the "average" student is being pushed through the system without a basic education. Unable to make change at a register, ignorant of basic history and geography, and completely devout of any critical thinking skills, this group is growing (and graduating) at an alarming rate.
So why is the "dumb" group growing (by percentage) by leaps and bounds? I think that there are three basic reasons:
1. Reliance on technology. Back in the "old" days, students had to hand write their papers, and there was no internet or spell check. If a student didn't know how to spell a word, then he had to look it up in the dictionary and actually write it down in the paper. This aided with retention and research skills. If a topic had to be researched for a paper, then reference materials had to be located (manually), and read, which also aided in the learning/retention process. Now, spell check catches all spelling and grammatical errors, and the student doesn't even have to look at the correct spelling before hitting "change" and correcting his errors. It amazes me to read police reports that have been done by college grads... amazes me. The spelling is horrible, the grammar is unthinkable, and I am beginning to wonder if anyone can write a complete sentence anymore.
Research consists of "Google, cut, copy, and paste," and with thousands of papers already out there on the web, a student can complete a paper without having to proof read it or learning a damned thing. Technology, in this case, has become a crutch.
2. The phenomenon that I call the "Larry the Cable Guy/ Fifty Cent/Paris Hilton syndrome." Remember the days when students were afraid of being called upon and not knowing the answer? The days when it was a "bad" thing to be seen as "dumb?" Yeah, well, those days are long gone. In many segments of American culture, people wear their ignorance as a badge of honor, and are proud of the fact that they are uneducated and can't find Asia on a globe. It's funny to be dumb (see Larry the Cable guy, America's Most Smartest Model, The Jaywalk Allstars), it's cool, it's the way to be. It is often the "smart" student who is now ashamed of knowing the answer, and who shrinks in his seat, hoping not to be called upon.
There is now a widespread disdain for those with high levels of education, who are referred to as "the college elites, Ivory Tower idiots, so called experts, etc." It is not the person who has achieved a high level of education and expertise in a given field that commands respect, rather the "real people" who mock them. Having an education has been devalued in the cultural sense, and it has trickled down to the HS level.
This has also been widely propogated by the "MTV rap hip/hop" culture, wherein having an education is seen as "selling out" and "being a bitch." Simply put, many kids are proud of being dumb, and have no desire to change.
3. What I call the "Carl Sagan principle." Carl Sagan once predicted that as science and technology became more and more advanced, fewer and fewer people would be able to grasp the basic concepts involved in said theories. For example, Newtonian physics is pretty simple for most to comprehend (energy equals mass times velocity, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, etc), but an extremely small segment of the population has any understanding whatsoever of quantum mechanics or super string theory.
Why does this matter?
Well, according to Sagan (and many others), one need only look at history to see that humans have an exceptionally hard time saying three simple words...... "I don't know." Simply put, we want to have an understanding and explanation of how and why the world around us behaves in the manner it does. Primitive cultures, who had no understanding of meteorology or weather fronts, attributed blizzards, droughts, and bad crop seasons to the fact that the Crop God was pissed off at them for not sacrificing more goats. People who had schizophrenia were thought to be "possessed," if the fish didn't bite it was because of the devil, an evil spirit, and the list goes on. Every culture in history had an explanation for everything, from illnesses to the creation of the world, most of which we now believe to be wrong.
In short, if we can't understand why or how something is happening, then we make something up. Just look at history for a million and three examples.
So, to tie this all together, since most of us can't comprehend advanced chemistry, biology, and physics (the things that explain why we are here and how things work), we have an automatic distrust and dislike of them and often choose to dismiss them entirely. We then replace them with more easily comprehended "pseudosciences."
I really hope that all made sense. Basically, it just means that scienceis no longer understood by many, so they don't trust it anymore. They pass that distrust on to their kids, who in turn have no desire to pursue these fields. We then, as a society, become "dumber" on the whole.
I work with a lot of young cops, and I am amazed on a daily basis by what they -don't- know.
I was in roll call one day, and a dude was talking about the fact that his grandfather had fought in Korea during WWII. I looked at him and asked, "do you mean that he fought in the Korean War?" the discussion went on, and I asked him if he could name the Axis and Allied Powers from WWII....... his answer? The Allies were the US, Germany, and Italy, and the Axis powers were Russia, Korea, and Japan. The guy didn't even know that there was a Korean War.
I wish that I could say this was an uncommon event, but it isn't.
JustinW20
10-31-2007, 13:00
"You answered 52 out of 60 correctly — 86.67 %"
Very humbling, especially for a former political science major… I have some re-reading to do.
51/60 -- Definitely had to stop and think on a few of those. There were a few that were obvious lapses after reading the answers. The sad part is that I missed the Keynesian theory question...probably should have known that one considering my degree. :mad:
Overall though, I'd have to agree that the majority of this stuff I didn't learn through schooling; with the exception being some of the economic questions.
frostfire
10-31-2007, 19:32
that's one thought-provoking analysis, mdb23. Wish I could have you talk at some of the schools I visited. So true, complacency is the trend in America now. Being prudent, a perfectionist, a professional, or giving the best you got are all seen as not 'hip'
3SoldierDad, very good point. Now, all that information to make yourself a better person and an asset to society is widely available. There is no more room for excuses, one just has to make the choice.
Surf n Turf
10-31-2007, 20:54
You answered 51 out of 60 correctly — 85.00 %
#58 & 60 threw me
SnT
GratefulCitizen
11-01-2007, 00:10
Interesting topic.
On one hand, HS students today are tackling subjects that previous generations of students never saw until college. For example, the HS student in the 50's and 60's was tasked with Algebra and basic science, whereas the advanced HS student of today can take Calculus I and II for college credt, Physics I and II, etc. From that angle, it is hard to argue that the student of today is "dumber" than those who came before him.
I would argue that "more" and "faster" doesn't always equate to "better".
At 16 or 17 years of age, tearing through these courses at record pace may be prompted by a "badgefinder" motivation.
Often, these kids don't understand the importance of learning things thoroughly.
On the other hand......
It can also be argued that the gap between the "smart" and "dumb" students is wider now than ever before. While the advanced student is talking Calculus II, the "average" student is being pushed through the system without a basic education. Unable to make change at a register, ignorant of basic history and geography, and completely devout of any critical thinking skills, this group is growing (and graduating) at an alarming rate.
I'm not so sure about this.
Are there any studies supporting this? (I genuinely would like to know)
Concerning this, it is a consequence of focusing on "more" and "faster" rather than "better".
So why is the "dumb" group growing (by percentage) by leaps and bounds? I think that there are three basic reasons:
1. Reliance on technology. Back in the "old" days, students had to hand write their papers, and there was no internet or spell check. If a student didn't know how to spell a word, then he had to look it up in the dictionary and actually write it down in the paper. This aided with retention and research skills. If a topic had to be researched for a paper, then reference materials had to be located (manually), and read, which also aided in the learning/retention process. Now, spell check catches all spelling and grammatical errors, and the student doesn't even have to look at the correct spelling before hitting "change" and correcting his errors. It amazes me to read police reports that have been done by college grads... amazes me. The spelling is horrible, the grammar is unthinkable, and I am beginning to wonder if anyone can write a complete sentence anymore.
Research consists of "Google, cut, copy, and paste," and with thousands of papers already out there on the web, a student can complete a paper without having to proof read it or learning a damned thing. Technology, in this case, has become a crutch.
2. The phenomenon that I call the "Larry the Cable Guy/ Fifty Cent/Paris Hilton syndrome." Remember the days when students were afraid of being called upon and not knowing the answer? The days when it was a "bad" thing to be seen as "dumb?" Yeah, well, those days are long gone. In many segments of American culture, people wear their ignorance as a badge of honor, and are proud of the fact that they are uneducated and can't find Asia on a globe. It's funny to be dumb (see Larry the Cable guy, America's Most Smartest Model, The Jaywalk Allstars), it's cool, it's the way to be. It is often the "smart" student who is now ashamed of knowing the answer, and who shrinks in his seat, hoping not to be called upon.
There is now a widespread disdain for those with high levels of education, who are referred to as "the college elites, Ivory Tower idiots, so called experts, etc." It is not the person who has achieved a high level of education and expertise in a given field that commands respect, rather the "real people" who mock them. Having an education has been devalued in the cultural sense, and it has trickled down to the HS level.
This has also been widely propogated by the "MTV rap hip/hop" culture, wherein having an education is seen as "selling out" and "being a bitch." Simply put, many kids are proud of being dumb, and have no desire to change.
3. What I call the "Carl Sagan principle." Carl Sagan once predicted that as science and technology became more and more advanced, fewer and fewer people would be able to grasp the basic concepts involved in said theories. For example, Newtonian physics is pretty simple for most to comprehend (energy equals mass times velocity, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, etc), but an extremely small segment of the population has any understanding whatsoever of quantum mechanics or super string theory.
I still don't agree (or disagree) with this assertion.
(again, are there any supporting studies?)
Concerning point 1: Students now are quite adept at quickly acquiring a superficial understanding of many subjects.
Depth of understanding suffers.
They are just meeting the expectations given them.
Concerning point 2: See "superficial" in point 1. Also, there is an element of ego protection here. (sore loser syndrome)
Concerning point 3: An accurate observation.
However, I would argue that it is neither necessary nor feasible for a large portion of the population to know these specialized areas in significant detail.
Why does this matter?
Well, according to Sagan (and many others), one need only look at history to see that humans have an exceptionally hard time saying three simple words...... "I don't know." Simply put, we want to have an understanding and explanation of how and why the world around us behaves in the manner it does. Primitive cultures, who had no understanding of meteorology or weather fronts, attributed blizzards, droughts, and bad crop seasons to the fact that the Crop God was pissed off at them for not sacrificing more goats. People who had schizophrenia were thought to be "possessed," if the fish didn't bite it was because of the devil, an evil spirit, and the list goes on. Every culture in history had an explanation for everything, from illnesses to the creation of the world, most of which we now believe to be wrong.
In short, if we can't understand why or how something is happening, then we make something up. Just look at history for a million and three examples.
I believe this is a social/political issue more than an educational one.
(not that these issues are independent of one another)
Either that, or it the result of global warming. :D
So, to tie this all together, since most of us can't comprehend advanced chemistry, biology, and physics (the things that explain why we are here and how things work), we have an automatic distrust and dislike of them and often choose to dismiss them entirely. We then replace them with more easily comprehended "pseudosciences."
This is definitely a social/political issue.
The distrust, dislike, and dismissal are motivated by one thing: envy.
Those who would rule take advantage of emotional vice in those they would rule.
This vice is, in part, a natural consequence of children never having to learn to deal with winning and losing.
Hmmm...politics of envy...where have I heard that before?
Hmmm...what political forces promote the "no winners/losers" approach to self-esteem?
I really hope that all made sense. Basically, it just means that scienceis no longer understood by many, so they don't trust it anymore. They pass that distrust on to their kids, who in turn have no desire to pursue these fields. We then, as a society, become "dumber" on the whole.
Those are some very good insights.
I would add one thing:
It is too late to solve the problem when a kid is 13 (or older).
The education has to start early.
(It's best to start really early -- promptly after exiting the birth canal ;) ).
AGaillard
11-02-2007, 09:09
54/60 90% That was an interesting test. The questions I missed were one histiory with the rest divided between philosophy and economics.
You answered 29 out of 60 correctly — 48.33 %
I won't make any excuses and I'm not embarrassed. While my education was average, my middle + highschool effort was nearly nonexistant. I spent my time doing all the a-typical rebellious stuff from about 6th grade until halfway through my senior year when my recruiter realized without taking 2 extra courses I wouldn't leave for basic in time. Then I did just enough to scrape by. I never got my shit together until 5 months after graduating I was in Khadmiyah.
It's going to make college a bitch, and I will be reaping what I sewed, but c'est la vie.
I take offense to the fact that I wasn't around when some of those things happened too.
With the exception of myself, who on this board was around during all of those events?
You answered 49 out of 60 correctly — 81.67 %
Average score for this quiz during November: 74.6%
good for me, I'm smarter than average but not as smart as most who post here. I put it down to being a Democrat and having an attitude about free markets. Plus, I suck at economics and anything having to do with them.
60_Driver
11-02-2007, 20:18
OK everybody step up and give it a try
http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/
I got an 85%, the average for high school grads is 51%ish.
Pull down and mash "Take the Quiz"
You answered 54 out of 60 correctly — 90.00 %
Average score for this quiz during November: 74.6%
Average score since September 18, 2007: 74.6%
100%, but I got lucky with a couple of guesses.
My ancient philosophy and economics were troubling. History was dead on.
TR
History geeks of the world unite!!
I missed two, both in economics.
ETA in response to the original post - when I got the bright idea to go back to school, I was initially an education major with a concentration in history. After two semesters of observations and student teaching in various educational and socioeconomic levels in the local public school, I determined two things. First, my kids were going to private school. Second, although I like my kids, I am not crazy about other people's kids. Consequently, I shifted my major to history and psychology (the latter just because I like to mess with people's heads :) ).