View Full Version : Tomahawks
brianksain
10-21-2007, 15:58
Any of you fellas using them / training with them?
The things just scream "America" to this Cajun.
The RMJ Forge Talon is a wicked piece.
The Reaper
10-21-2007, 16:04
Brian:
That is a lot of weight to be humping around for a very limited purpose weapon.
Frankly, I would rather have a handgun and ammo of equivalent weight, a large knife, or a more practical tool (with a secondary weapons use), like a hatchet or small axe.
I'd say the number of people who have had the opportunity to 'hawk someone in the past few years have been pretty small.
They look mighty cool though.:D
TR
x-factor
10-21-2007, 16:18
Question - What is the technical difference between a tomahawk and a hatchet/hand axe? I have no practical experience in this matter, but based on what I know about frontier history, a tomahawk would qualify as a "practical tool" as much or more than as a close combat weapon.
The Reaper
10-21-2007, 17:33
Question - What is the technical difference between a tomahawk and a hatchet/hand axe? I have no practical experience in this matter, but based on what I know about frontier history, a tomahawk would qualify as a "practical tool" as much or more than as a close combat weapon.
X, is your google not working, or do we need to explain how to do your own homework?
Look at current tomahawks being made for sale and tell me how practical a tool you think they are.
Then try to imagine where and how you will carry one.
TR
brianksain
10-21-2007, 18:27
Roger that TR.
I keep hearing that QPs and others are have been using them but have yet to see even one pic of one hanging off a ruck or elsewhere.
Cool factor is definitely off the chart:cool:
Jack Moroney (RIP)
10-21-2007, 19:10
I carried a hatchet for my entire career. Used it for everything and anything and have saved many hours of having to restore a decent edge to my knives where the hatchet was the better tool of choice.
Surgicalcric
10-21-2007, 19:14
...I keep hearing that QPs and others are have been using them...
I know of two guys who carry them on their DA armor but neither has used them for anything other than throwing them...
I was thinking about getting one myself but think I may get a smatchet instead.
Crip
x-factor
10-21-2007, 19:57
TR - I understand your argument that a tomahawk isn't worth the weight compared to a gun, knife or utility tool. (I always used a machette for clearing light overgrowth growing up in Florida.)
What I didn't understand was your distinction between a tomahawk and a hatchet. I looked over whats currently available and the size and weight are about the same. As best I can figure it, a tomahawk is distinguished from a hatchet by the slimmer head and a spike, pick, or hammer opposite the blade. (Is this not an accurate distinction?)
You said a tomahwak isn't as useful as a hatchet or a small axe, but I'm not understanding what you could do with a hatchet/small axe that you couldn't do with a tomahawk. Compared to a hatchet, is a tomahawk not useful because the head isn't heavy enough for serious chopping work? Do you find the spike on the backside just get in the way? I'm not challenging your expertise, just trying to learn something new.
incommin
10-22-2007, 08:22
I've got a throwing Hawk that I have had for close to 40 years. I carried it when I was humping a ruck in SF and thru the rest of my military career. I found that it along with a small knife did better duty that a large knife or machete. But then, back then we were not humping the amount of weight that today's soldiers do.......never whacked anyone with it but I thought of it a time or two :D
Jim
Bill Harsey
10-22-2007, 08:53
The word "tomahawk" found its way into the english language as an adaptation of the Algonquian Native Amercian term for their tool and weapon of this type.
Early tomahawks had stone heads.
Both tomahawks and hatchets are relatively short handled whacking tools that are now usually made from steel.
The difference between a "Tomahawk" and a "Hatchet" is utility.
One is designed for fighting, one for chopping (wood, etc.)
A small hatchet is sometimes referred to as a "mouse-hawk", but the purpose is chopping.
Carrying a fighting hawk made perfect sense for Robert's Ranger's. However, as firearm technology increased the practicality of a fighting hawk decreased.
There were designs that clearly tried to achieve both, but were utilized mostly as trade items and often pounded or melted down because they neither "fought" or "chopped" as well as available items.
For a definitive source of examples I would first suggest:
Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution
and...
Battle Weapons of the American Revolution
both by George C. Neumann.
I realize there is a popularly marketed "Viet-Nam Fighting Tomahawk", but I will leave comment regarding it's usefulness to those who carried it in SEA.
To kill or to chop...and if the reason to carry is to kill...like other's have stated, I'd go with more ammo.
Bill Harsey
10-23-2007, 07:43
B219,
There are those who say that the tomahawk was also an important utility tool in the hands of the native Americans. Many original residents of this nation did a lot of wood working. Even stone tools can fall trees.
It's use by native Americans went beyond fighting as the tomahawk was also an important in ceremony, presentation and medicine.
Some traditional tomahawks had pipes built in the head and hollowed handles for smoking. This was usually associated with peaceful use.
I haven't used a hachet since I was a park Ranger, only ever used it for chopping and hammering.
I received a Gerber LMF ASEK as a gift, carried it in the field ever since. Awesome knife great for everything chopping, cutting, hammering. Nice thick heavy blade, stays very sharp with a little use of the sharpener in the sheath. Dropped in on concreat, didnt break the blade but chipped the concreat.
I carry this, a Gerber Multi tool and a Gerber MK II in the field. Had a gerber flashlight too but wasn't impressed, they should just stick to knifes.
Carrying a fighting hawk made perfect sense for Robert's Ranger's. However, as firearm technology increased the practicality of a fighting hawk decreased.
To kill or to chop...and if the reason to carry is to kill...like other's have stated, I'd go with more ammo.
Not arguing it's practicality hasn't decreased, but...
Corporal Toloza of El Salvador might disagree on the usefulness of edged weapons in combat, somewhat. :lifter
The Reaper
10-23-2007, 20:00
Not arguing it's practicality hasn't decreased, but...
Corporal Toloza of El Salvador might disagree on the usefulness of edged weapons in combat, somewhat. :lifter
Bet he would have preferred a loaded and functioning firearm.
I know I would have.
TR
Bet he would have preferred a loaded and functioning firearm.
I know I would have.
TR
Absolutely, I'm merely pointing out when one level of defense was unavailable, he still had more to fall back on and he was better off for it.
Roguish Lawyer
10-23-2007, 20:43
Bet he would have preferred a loaded and functioning firearm.
I know I would have.
TR
You are so freaking practical. Don't you ever just want to look cool? ;)
Don't you ever just want to look cool? ;)
That's standard issue, Counselor. ;)
You are so freaking practical. Don't you ever just want to look cool? ;)
Why Counselor...are you inferring that TR doesn't already look cool? :D
Sorry...couldn't resist. :p
Roguish Lawyer
10-23-2007, 20:59
That's standard issue, Counselor. ;)
TR was in 7th Group, not 10th.
We carried the Fiskars Handy ( Model 1000 If I recall correctly ) for general chopping and woodwork. Tough as hell and did the job well.
TR was in 7th Group, not 10th.:rolleyes:
incommin
10-24-2007, 12:33
TR was in 7th Group, not 10th.
What's your point????? I was in the 7th and the 10th....
Jim
B219,
There are those who say that the tomahawk was also an important utility tool in the hands of the native Americans. Many original residents of this nation did a lot of wood working. Even stone tools can fall trees.
It's use by native Americans went beyond fighting as the tomahawk was also an important in ceremony, presentation and medicine.
Some traditional tomahawks had pipes built in the head and hollowed handles for smoking. This was usually associated with peaceful use.
A kindred spirit.
True, either design could be used as the situation dictated. Forged or cast heads were obvious trade items, as the Indians had no means to produce them prior to Johnson's foundry in 1757.
To clarify, my previous comments were only in regards to metal implements rather than flint, obsidian and stone weapons and tools used by the Indians prior to their disuse.
The Pipe Hawks were a Dutch invention as a marketing gimmick for use as a trade item, and copied by the British (no evidence the French ever produced Pipe Hawks for trade). Although the Pipe Hawks didn't catch on as a replacement for ceremonial smoking, they did become a representative symbol of alliance much like the Friendship Medals given to Indians later.
This isn't to say no one ever smoked one.
Like I said, I do agree with your point that regardless of the design, either could be used for chopping wood or skulls...but there was a definite design difference between the axe heads and the fighting hawk heads.
Not one mention of the smatchet? (http://www.gutterfighting.org/smatchet.html)
LOL
Not one mention of the smatchet? (http://www.gutterfighting.org/smatchet.html)
LOL
Ouch.
fine fine, go ahead and open up old wounds for NDD, I'm sure he'll be along shortly now that you summoned him with the "S" word ;)
Good times,
Blake
soldier506
10-28-2007, 11:27
I resently came across this product on the net . To me it is a too expencive for something that would have a limited use. The product is called the battlehawk from gg&g . I think it was more designed as an entry tool for doors,windows and such than an actuall combat tool. Still neet and nasty looking.
http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=141&parents=
TOMAHAWK9521
05-20-2008, 13:17
I'm sorry I didn't get on this site sooner so my comments could be more timely and therefore relevant.
I'm a team daddy with 19th SF over in the western sandbox. I carry a Hayes Hawk from ATC on my pistol belt. It has come in handy quite a few times out here. Knowing that it would probably catch on stuff, I designed a custom modular scabbard out of heavy leather covered with 1000 Denier ACU fabric. I also have an Eagle Talon but it's length makes it difficult to have strapped to your leg when trying to un-ass a UAH. Anyway, yeah the tomahawk has cool guy points although I still haven't been presented with the opportunity to split anyone's head yet. Some of the new kids on other ODAs scoff at it, but then again they snivel and cry that they can't go into battle without shorty barrels and all the latest scopes, lasers, NODs, and other tech toys .
3SoldierDad
05-20-2008, 18:39
Bill Harsey said a while back he thought about creating an "SF Issue" Tomahawk...
Anything ever come of it Mr. Harsey? Yes, the cool factor would be VERY high. For me as an old dude, the jealousy factor would be even bigger.
Three Soldier Dad...Chuck
I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking to get a hatchet with a durable blade for utility stuff (camping). Any suggestions on good makers is appreciated.
Peregrino
09-07-2009, 16:44
I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking to get a hatchet with a durable blade for utility stuff (camping). Any suggestions on good makers is appreciated.
Gerber or Fiskar (virtually identical, variety of sizes to meet every perceived need, relatively indestructable, and available almost everywhere). Not that I have one mind you. I'm still using the same "boy's" (2 1/2 lb. head) axe my dad gave me almost 40 years ago when I was in Scouting. It does everything from light felling to splitting kindling and just never seems to wear out. Course it's on its 5th or 6th handle and 3rd sheath IIRC. I keep it in the truck box where it's always handy. The 5 lb single bits seem to spend most of their time in the shed with the chain saw and splitting maul. Never have found a real requirement for a 'Hawk.
Defender968
09-07-2009, 19:44
I've had a Gerber hatchet for over 10 years and I have to say it's the finest hatchet I've ever used by far, cuts like a champ, maintains a great edge, light (has a hallow plastic handle but still takes a beating), after 10 years of work no rust on the head due to their coating, it’s really overall a great tool. I've used it camping, back packing, and in the back yard cutting branches from dropped trees for years and it has never lets me down, always gets it done, I can't say enough good about the Gerber. If I lost mine right now, I'd buy another online tonight.
Just my .02 hope it helps
Thank you both. That's a good enough endorsement for me to try the Gerber.