View Full Version : Old School Edges
Bill Harsey
10-12-2007, 19:43
Here is some real old school tech done here by me. I'm not very good at this but I've found it very interesting to try.
My respect for those who's lives depended on this craft goes up everyday.
Stone tools are very interesting. I read an article last week about obsidian tools used for modern surgeries.
Obsidian is used in cardiac surgery, as well-crafted obsidian blades have a cutting edge many times sharper than high-quality steel surgical scalpels, with the edge of the blade being only about 3 nm wide . Even the sharpest metal knife has a jagged, irregular blade when viewed under a strong enough microscope. When examined under an electron microscope an obsidian blade is still smooth and even. One study found that obsidian produced narrower scars, fewer inflammatory cells, and less granulation tissue in a group of rats.
Bill they look very good. There has been sort of a resurgence in knapping. I thought of trying it, read book, bought some chards, all I'll say, is now I can laugh at the attemp.
Thanks for the photos.
I have some old flints that was recovered from a ship wreck in 1802 in the Irish channel.
Roguish Lawyer
10-13-2007, 08:16
Stone or glass? Was this a drunken experiment on used beer bottles? :munchin
Bill Harsey
10-13-2007, 09:05
RL,
The small "micro blade" is from Oregon obsidian.
Yes, the round and crescent blade are from the bottom of a beer bottle.
The crescent blade shape is known to the Great basin region.
To be able to produce a "chip", a lot of pressure is placed against the knapping tool with finger tips and knuckles heading straight into the edge when the chip releases. No alcohol is involved when doing this or regular knifemaking around here, too much at risk.
Pete S,
I'm familar with the use of minerals for surgical blades.
Obsidian can fracture to the last leading molecule at the edge but it is extremely fragile.
The perfect smooth edge is not the one we want for hard working knives. That "jagged irregular" edge in your quote, when done corectly, is the type of edge that will give a good knife the best edge endurance in tough jobs. Not all cuts need to be smooth to be right.
Roguish Lawyer
10-14-2007, 08:17
RL,
The small "micro blade" is from Oregon obsidian.
Yes, the round and crescent blade are from the bottom of a beer bottle.
The crescent blade shape is known to the Great basin region.
To be able to produce a "chip", a lot of pressure is placed against the knapping tool with finger tips and knuckles heading straight into the edge when the chip releases. No alcohol is involved when doing this or regular knifemaking around here, too much at risk.
Very impressive work! :munchin
The Reaper
10-14-2007, 08:41
Bill:
Very nice.
I watched a guy yesterday knapping arrowheads. He said that he did his for functionality rather than appearance, and that they were effective. He said that actual arrowheads were a lot smaller than most people think, and the one he was working on was almost large enough to be an atlatl point.
It appeared to me that he did a lot more "pressure knapping" than striking. He used all native tools, which according to him, included some copper points and strikers, saying that the Great Lakes tribes hammered out copper items and traded them to other tribes. He also did a lot of scuffing the edges with a flat stone, to break the sharp edges, to make them more visible, and to reduce bad breaks.
He said that obsidian was pretty easy to work with just bone and antler tools, but that rhyolite took the use of his legs as well as the copper tools, and the rhyolite point would last forever.
Pics attached.
TR
Mr. Harsey,
Very impressive. Have you ever given any thought to making a flint knife as a display piece? I have always had an appreciation for blades, but flint knives I feel are truly a thing of beauty.
TR,
Looks like some time well spent with a very skilled craftsman. Someone in your local area? The arrowhead in the third picture is magnificent. What stone is that?
Aaron
He said that actual arrowheads were a lot smaller than most people think, and the one he was working on was almost large enough to be an atlatl point.
Very small indeed. Where I live in NC we have a natural Pasture. The oldest account of our land I found dated around 1940. The pasture was there then. It was never cleared. Something about the underwater stream or rock shelf keeps any trees from growing there. There is also a creek next to it.
Anyway, we have a Jar full of Arrow Heads found in and around this natural clearing. Makes sense they would set up Camp there. Also have a couple of chopping/crushing tools. My kids found one large Arrow or Spear Head measuring about 2.5" . It was lying right under a log. The rest are small. I did a little research and couldn't find anything about a Tribe that might of lived there.
It seems strange to find this many in one place. But if you think about all the Brass and shot shells you find in the woods around Bragg. You figure Soldiers have been training there for about 55 years. Then figure the Indians were living, Hunting and training for a lot longer then fifty years. There should be a lot more still out there.
Bill Harsey
10-17-2007, 16:11
TR,
Great pics! Thank you.
Arrowheads, the ones that are attached to the end of arrows for launching from a bow are fairly small and vary from "bird" points to the larger ones used for deer and elk.
Next size up are the atlatl points then the spear points for both hand pushed and thrown weapons.
Some of oldest and biggest spear points found in North America are referred to as "clovis". These are thought to have been used for the mega fauna found here 10,000 to 12,000 plus years ago.
There are small knives, scrapers, drills and blades big enough for salmon knapped out of stone. Each category mentioned has many variations of shapes and sizes.
Some knapped tools have baffled researchers who admit they have no idea what some they were used for.
The only definition I can state with confidence for all these stone tools is "lithics".
Bill Harsey
10-17-2007, 16:16
Mr. Harsey,
Very impressive. Have you ever given any thought to making a flint knife as a display piece?
Aaron
Only if I accidently get good enough someday. That's going to be a long slow road because there is some steel work to get done first.
Bill Harsey
10-17-2007, 16:18
Very small indeed. Where I live in NC we have a natural Pasture. The oldest account of our land I found dated around 1940. The pasture was there then. It was never cleared. Something about the underwater stream or rock shelf keeps any trees from growing there. There is also a creek next to it.
Anyway, we have a Jar full of Arrow Heads found in and around this natural clearing. Makes sense they would set up Camp there. Also have a couple of chopping/crushing tools. My kids found one large Arrow or Spear Head measuring about 2.5" . It was lying right under a log. The rest are small. I did a little research and couldn't find anything about a Tribe that might of lived there.
It seems strange to find this many in one place. But if you think about all the Brass and shot shells you find in the woods around Bragg. You figure Soldiers have been training there for about 55 years. Then figure the Indians were living, Hunting and training for a lot longer then fifty years. There should be a lot more still out there.
Do you know what type of stone these are made from?
Replied to the PM. Ill get some pics of them.
Only if I accidently get good enough someday. That's going to be a long slow road because there is some steel work to get done first.
That's cool, I'll wait. :D:lifter
Here are the pics of the Arrow heads my wife and kids found. They are the same pics. Just used different lighting. Also there, is one of the big tools found. The big round Rock is a grinding stone I was told. The coloring on it isn't old Indian Paint. My Daughter found it when she was little. She thought it would be better if it was painted.
It's hard to see the detail. But you can see the actual cuts. The Bear teeth I am told were used to do the cutting or grinding. Anyone knows more, please jump in. I am interested since I can't seem to ever find any. These were all found here in Hoke County NC.
Bill Harsey
01-21-2008, 18:55
Kgoerz,
That is some amazing stuff. I'd like to see that in person someday.
Bill Harsey
01-21-2008, 18:57
Here is a knife blade I did late last year from glass.
x SF med
01-21-2008, 19:11
Bill did Gunner get you the napping horns yet? He's had them since Christmas.:confused:
warrottjr
01-21-2008, 19:15
Is this a legitimate advertisement?:
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The M16-14SF (Special Forces) Big Dog is our hefty utility version, with a 3.94" (10.0 cm) blade and full size handle with butt pommel which is exceptionally useful in tactical situations. Weight is kept to 5.6 oz. (159 g).
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Bill Harsey
01-21-2008, 19:26
warrottjr,
Not sure what that has to do with this thread but it looks like a Kit Carson knife to me.
Is this a legitimate advertisement?:
Columbia River M16-14SF Special Forces Knife (http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productID=8595&TabID=1&CatID=11)
The M16-14SF (Special Forces) Big Dog is our hefty utility version, with a 3.94" (10.0 cm) blade and full size handle with butt pommel which is exceptionally useful in tactical situations. Weight is kept to 5.6 oz. (159 g).
Item# 26857
Price: $99.99
I've never liked the CRKT folders. It felt cheap to me, and was prone to rusting.
The Reaper
01-21-2008, 21:17
I've never liked the CRKT folders. It felt cheap to me, and was prone to rusting.
IMHO, the CRKT knives are not bad, and you get a good value blade for what they cost.
We now return you to your regular thread of old school, knapped blades.
TR
one-zero
01-21-2008, 21:21
Good stuff - getting outside and learning some history in a practical way as well...better than watching TV anyday. Living in NC you can find stuff from ancient indians, revolutionary war, war between the states, etc as a kid in the woods and it doesn't cost a thing.
Very small indeed. Where I live in NC we have a natural Pasture. The oldest account of our land I found dated around 1940. The pasture was there then. It was never cleared. Something about the underwater stream or rock shelf keeps any trees from growing there. There is also a creek next to it.
Anyway, we have a Jar full of Arrow Heads found in and around this natural clearing. Makes sense they would set up Camp there. Also have a couple of chopping/crushing tools. My kids found one large Arrow or Spear Head measuring about 2.5" . It was lying right under a log. The rest are small. I did a little research and couldn't find anything about a Tribe that might of lived there.
It seems strange to find this many in one place. But if you think about all the Brass and shot shells you find in the woods around Bragg. You figure Soldiers have been training there for about 55 years. Then figure the Indians were living, Hunting and training for a lot longer then fifty years. There should be a lot more still out there.
Juliet Delta
08-15-2008, 22:59
I thought I might share something with those of you with an appreciation for this art.
A friend of mine introduced me to a good friend of his. Barry is his name, IIRC. He showed me a thing or two about knapping, and let me paw through his material for the cost of a conversation.
Here is some of his work, and what I was able to produce after many hours and a liberal amount of swearing.
I can get his contact info for anyone who'd like to meet up/ learn from him; he's in central VA.
JD