View Full Version : Blackwater Is Soaked: An arrogant attitude only adds fuel to the criticism.
The following seemed worth a post - a quick search did not reveal another thread on the subject.
Surprising behavior by Blackwater, if true.
Oct. 15, 2007 issue - The colonel was furious. "Can you believe it? They actually drew their weapons on U.S. soldiers." He was describing a 2006 car accident, in which an SUV full of Blackwater operatives had crashed into a U.S. Army Humvee on a street in Baghdad's Green Zone. The colonel, who was involved in a follow-up investigation and spoke on the condition he not be named, said the Blackwater guards disarmed the U.S. Army soldiers and made them lie on the ground at gunpoint until they could disentangle the SUV. His account was confirmed by the head of another private security company. Asked to address this and other allegations in this story, Blackwater spokesperson Anne Tyrrell said, "This type of gossip has led to many soap operas in the press."
More at the LINK (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21163806/site/newsweek)
It look's like a story with a definite agenda. Plus most of there "sources" were anonymous. Just seems curious to me.
Considering that many private security guys are former SOF guys, I can see how those in the rank and file of Mother Army would see them as arrogant. Hell, many of them don't care for us when we are in uniform, let alone out of uniform doing PSD work for substantially more money. What some see as arrogance is a strong sense of confidence. I know what me and my team can do. We have done it in the past and we will do it again given the opportunity. When I step onto the field of battle, I am death. I am the barrel-chested, steely-eyed, lead slingin' freedom fighter who brings forth the might of the US Armed Forces.
What some see as playing by our own set of rules is merely operating under SOP's that are completely foreign to them. I am sorry they don't like my relaxed grooming standards or the fact that I carry my pistol with me everywhere I go....off what they refer to as "safe". Last time I checked I am in a hostile fire zone and everywhere I look there are local nationals around me who I do not know. Think you are safe inside the wire; tell that to the 82nd mortar platoon who got mowed down by an Afghan Nat'l Army soldier while conducting concurrent training. Luckily for some, a PFC had decided to bring his rifle with him to training.
Given that, each unit has it's 10%, if not more. These private security companies are no different. If some jackass really did put guys who are on the same side of the fight to gunpoint, they need to be taken to a back room for a little counselling, wall-to-wall type.
ahh.... the dreaded pistol "off safe" issue. That still makes me shake my head. I bet you even wanted to keep a magazine in and a round in the chamber too.:eek:
I had people carry theirs everywhere except when inside our compound. Thinking back, i should have said carry it everywhere period. I put mine on my belt when I got up and put it next to my rack at night. Unloaded it for maintenance and that's it. Depending on the situation and the event (i.e. "formal" dinner and chai with gov't officials and generals) I'd let my ACU hang over my bianchi belt holster and carry concealed so as to not look like wyatt erp when at a function when there was security present and none of the other principle attendees were armed. That belt holster was a good piece of kit to have around... Just have to make sure that guys that have them practice with them on the range.
I had the whole "we have been trained like this, we carry our pistols like this, and here is the reason why" discussion, with our conventional force brethren that we were colocated with early. We got that out of the way and then it stopped being an issue after too long once the "leave the SF guys alone" message percolated down through all the LTCs, MAJ's and SGM's.
At the same time I tried to prod them to do a little test and see how fast they could get their pistols out, load them and get on target from the dumb-asssed shoulder holsters (loose and flapping around) that they all seemed to carrry when walking around and not fully geared up. Funny, nobody wanted to take me up on it.
I couldnt' figure out why everyone had those shoulder holsters...but now that I think about it, putting their pistols in a belt holster was an impossibility for them because they a.) couldn't carry "concealed" and b.) they couldn't walk around with their ACU shirts tucked in. Also since they weren't in the mode of actually having to protect themselves while in a "safe" area the shoulder holsters were easy to hang up on the back of their chairs when they were sitting at the chow hall.
I couldnt' figure out why everyone had those shoulder holsters...but now that I think about it, putting their pistols in a belt holster was an impossibility for them because they a.) couldn't carry "concealed" and b.) they couldn't walk around with their ACU shirts tucked in. Also since they weren't in the mode of actually having to protect themselves while in a "safe" area the shoulder holsters were easy to hang up on the back of their chairs when they were sitting at the chow hall.
You're forgetting the 'look cool' factor that some were looking for. I asked a SSG once why he wore it around and why was it 'flapping around'. He said because it looked cool and he always wanted to wear one. At least he was honest...
brianksain
10-17-2007, 06:54
What's a shoulder holster?:confused:
Team Sergeant
10-17-2007, 09:40
What's a shoulder holster?:confused:
I wore a tankers holster my entire tour of duty, Desert Storm. (with the safe "off");)
NousDefionsDoc
10-17-2007, 10:09
What kind of US military unit lets people disarm them?
When I step onto the field of battle, I am death. I am the barrel-chested, steely-eyed, lead slingin' freedom fighter who brings forth the might of the US Armed Forces.
One for the best quote thread!!!
82ndtrooper
10-17-2007, 10:51
What's a shoulder holster?:confused:
It's from Galco, free to most NG soldiers and I don't want one. :D
What kind of US military unit lets people disarm them?Good question! I'd like to know the answer also...:confused:
Stay safe.
Team Sergeant
10-17-2007, 11:24
What kind of US military unit lets people disarm them?
I can tell you this for sure, it was not an SF soldier they disarmed.....;)
What kind of US military unit lets people disarm them?
Maybe a politically aware one.
They obviously had some idea who these contractors were.
Perhaps discretion was the better part of valour here...
''Maybe a politically aware one''
I don't know put a weapon in my face and see how fast a I start slinging lead down range. Hostile is hostile American or not point a weapon in my direction and you become a target If it is true that is BS and It should have been brought to light a long time ago.
Maybe a politically aware one.
They obviously had some idea who these contractors were.
Perhaps discretion was the better part of valour here...
True, very good point. Without having seen the situation first hand it would be irresponsible of me to assume anything.
Maybe a politically aware one.
They obviously had some idea who these contractors were.
Perhaps discretion was the better part of valour here...
There was an SF trooper in Bosnia who had to shoot a Serb because he was being attacked. CID came out to the site, and ordered him to give up his gun for there investigation. He told them where too go, because he wasn't going to be out, without a weapon. As soon as he got back to base he turned it over. That was Bosnia, would you honestly give your gun up in the middle of Iraq? I know what my answer is.
What kind of US military unit lets people disarm them?
I can with 100% confidence say it would not have been me or one of my men....SF or no SF.
Considering that many private security guys are former SOF guys, I can see how those in the rank and file of Mother Army would see them as arrogant. Hell, many of them don't care for us when we are in uniform, let alone out of uniform doing PSD work for substantially more money.
Given that, each unit has it's 10%, if not more. These private security companies are no different. If some jackass really did put guys who are on the same side of the fight to gunpoint, they need to be taken to a back room for a little counselling, wall-to-wall type.
It seems some folks here in Fayetteville disagree with you. My neighbor, a career SF soldier, has had run ins with Blackwater. I don't think they are on his list of resume' recipients. ;)
Blackwater contractors are young, inexperienced
The former Blackwater contractor, identified as Andrew Moonen, involved in the fatal shooting of the Iraqi vice president’s bodyguard is a typical Blackwater contractor. Unlike what usually gets portrayed in the media, the vast majority of Blackwater contractors are neither former Special Forces soldiers nor experienced military veterans; rather, they are generally 20-somethings with either some military or law enforcement background. The Department of State requires these contractors to have at least one (yes, that is one) year of either military or law enforcement experience in order to serve as one of its security contractors. The media should quit associating Blackwater contractors with this country’s elite forces. Most former Special Forces soldiers are overqualified for this type of duty and don’t enjoy working with young, inexperienced contractors for low wages.
If Blackwater and the State Department wanted experienced, quiet professionals, they would have to be willing to pay fair market price for that level of maturity and experience. Simply put, the vast majority of experienced former Special Forces soldiers aren’t going to work in high-threat environments such as Iraq and Afghanistan with inexperienced 21-year-olds with guns.
Mike Blackburn
Fayetteville
I wore a tankers holster my entire tour of duty, Desert Storm. (with the safe "off");)
I hate shoulder holsters.
I wore a Safariland hip holster both times. I finally put emnu on the safety orange indicator for the reasons listed above and because I was sick of explaining why dealing with the safety was not adventageous when you needed it. The safety is the mindset of the carrier bred in the training they recieve. The mechanical safety is a backstop for those who don't know what they're doing.
There was an SF trooper in Bosnia who had to shoot a Serb because he was being attacked. CID came out to the site, and ordered him to give up his gun for there investigation. He told them where too go, because he wasn't going to be out, without a weapon. As soon as he got back to base he turned it over.
That was Bosnia, would you honestly give your gun up in the middle of Iraq? I know what my answer is.
Hell no! I'd hold on to that sucker for dear life!, more so in Iraq!
But imagine the stand off - it doesn't bare thinking about.
We're all aware of 'blue on blue' situations, but this is a whole new game.
I can only assume the leader signalled to his men to lay down their weapons - what a decision to have to make.
CRad - If that 'one year' prerequisite is true for BW, then that's totally outrageous.
CRad - If that 'one year' prerequisite is true for BW, then that's totally outrageous.
I don't know if it is or isn't. What I posted is a letter to the editor of the Fayetteville Observer. I don't know Mike Blackburn.
Personally, I feel the one year thing is a little under-qualified but then that's because of who my friends are.
Here's a link for the State Dept if you want to do some research on your own
http://www.state.gov/
CosaNostraUSMC
10-18-2007, 18:26
I can tell you this for sure, it was not an SF soldier they disarmed.....;)
And definitely not Marines.
There was an SF trooper in Bosnia who had to shoot a Serb because he was being attacked.
Hell of a guy. Funny, as soon as that report made it back to CONUS, everybody in the Bn knew exactly who the guy was without even hearing the name. :lifter
Hell of a guy. Funny, as soon as that report made it back to CONUS, everybody in the Bn knew exactly who the guy was without even hearing the name. :lifter
I went too his retirement ceremony. He told the story about being a Ranger in Grenada, and how he was shot, and pinned down on the airfield. He had some good stories.
Hell of a guy. Funny, as soon as that report made it back to CONUS, everybody in the Bn knew exactly who the guy was without even hearing the name. :lifter
How did everyone guess this guy?
Did his reputation precede him?
Location, circumstances, and a reputation for doing what needed to be done.
60_Driver
10-19-2007, 20:39
Hell, many of them don't care for us when we are in uniform.
I like most of y'all okay.
But I'll be damned if I ever loan any of you my house again.