Vet Cuts Down Flag

[jwt5]

Did a search, didn't find anything, if already posted, please remove.


I'll let the video speak for itself. :lifter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_kj8WnzYpc

[Scimitar]

Here's an interview with the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px1PTsEdC1Y&mode=related&search=

Love this guy’s attitude. Hooah!

Federal Crime? My understanding is that although the 'Flag Code' is written into federal law there is no penalty for breaking it. Pity that.

i.e. President Bush had a photo shoot standing on the flag that was printed into the marble floor.

But what the Vet did probably was technically illegal. Pity that.

What surprises me is that being new to the flag code I now notice violations everywhere, but these are mostly due to ignorance, this situation surely has to be put down to belligerence?

Any of you legal guys able to expand on this?

Scimitar

[82ndtrooper]

IANAL, but I suppose he could be charged with tresspassing on private property and vandalism, that is if the DA and Judge see fit to actually impose any type of sentence or proceed with the charges. any DA and Judge worth his salt would ask that charges be dropped.

I'd do the same should I ever see a Mexican flag flying over the American flag. Funny, he mentioned taking/using his K-Bar knife to cute the line. :cool:

[LibraryLady]

What surprises me is that being new to the flag code I now notice violations everywhere, but these are mostly due to ignorance, this situation surely has to be put down to belligerence?


No one thought to inquire if the business owner knew flag code - I'd venture 95% of Americans don't. If the MSM had made an inquiry of the business as to the extent of their knowledge, and/or someone had simply informed them of the problem and they had rectified it, there would have been no story.

My take on this - the MSM wanted a story, and got a chance to sensationalize it when the guy took matters into his own hands, probably because he saw the camera and wanted a few minutes of fame. I see this as a slow news day, coupled with a desire for sensationalism, and an indifference to help someone.

LL

[longrange1947]

I would venture a guess as to this being a reaction to the kids in California that lowered the US Flag to raise the Mexican Flag and then dancing around the flag pole.

I can see more and more backlash if cooler heads on both sides do not prevail.

[sf11b_p]

No one thought to inquire if the business owner knew flag code - I'd venture 95% of Americans don't. If the MSM had made an inquiry of the business as to the extent of their knowledge, and/or someone had simply informed them of the problem and they had rectified it, there would have been no story.

My take on this - the MSM wanted a story, and got a chance to sensationalize it when the guy took matters into his own hands, probably because he saw the camera and wanted a few minutes of fame. I see this as a slow news day, coupled with a desire for sensationalism, and an indifference to help someone.

LL

The local news stations stated they'd picked up on this from a Craigs List post and/or calls from citizens. The individual who removed the flag heard it on the news.

The Law of the Shield, the Flag and National anthem: DOF February 8, 1984 which is the Mexican flag protocol and law is similar to the U.S. code. The U.S. flag code unlike the Mexican code is not law. Hence the ability to burn it.

I believe a person of normal intelligence knows flying a national flag above another is a point of honor. Following that it would seem clear flying a flag foreign to a host country above the hosts would be an insult to the host. Since recent immigration protests have shown burning and upside down U.S. flags and it's been national news, I'd think a bar owner who states he flew them to support hispanics could guess it might be the wrong thing to do.

The bar owner could had taken as much effort you suggest others should have taken. Pretty much anyone knows national flags aren't just decoration and have some due respect.

[LibraryLady]

... The bar owner could had taken as much effort you suggest others should have taken...

True

... I believe a person of normal intelligence knows flying a national flag above another is a point of honor. Following that it would seem clear flying a flag foreign to a host country above the hosts would be an insult to the host. Since recent immigration protests have shown burning and upside down U.S. flags and it's been national news, I'd think a bar owner who states he flew them to support hispanics could guess it might be the wrong thing to do...

... Pretty much anyone knows national flags aren't just decoration and have some due respect.

Sorry, I don't have that much faith in the general populace.

LL

[The Reaper]

In most countries, I believe flying your flag like that over the rightful one would get your ass whipped and your business burned down.

TR

[JMI]

If the MSM had made an inquiry of the business as to the extent of their knowledge, and/or someone had simply informed them of the problem and they had rectified it, there would have been no story.

LL
If was more fun to watch the Vet cut down the flag. The reason the Mexican flag was on top was to show dominance. This guy knew what he was doing, and I am quite sure members of his community mentioned it might not be a good idea.

[Ret10Echo]

In most countries, I believe flying your flag like that over the rightful one would get your ass whipped and your business burned down.

TR


Or vice-versa

[cb88]

Whether an intentional slight against the American flag, a lack of honor or just plain ignorance, it was wrong and shows that some want to "have their cake and eat it too". They want to come to American but not assimilate.

Matters could have been handled differently and cooler heads should have prevailed, but I know many in my family would have done the same and I would have gladly paid the fine for them if charges were pressed. I also would have told the store owner that I would gladly replace his American flag on the condition that it flew in its rightful place here in America.

[Ambush Master]

True



Sorry, I don't have that much faith in the general populace.

LL


LL,

You are not amongst the "General Populace" in here!!

Take care.
Martin

[CosaNostraUSMC]

In most countries, I believe flying your flag like that over the rightful one would get your ass whipped and your business burned down.

TR

TR, It's interesting you should mention this. My wife's a Japanese national. We had a recent conversation when in Japan a few months ago, that started out from my noticing, that, their country doesn't fly their flag as we do here. It's something that she didn't give much thought to when we're stateside, but once I brought it up, she agreed that Americans fly the flag almost everywhere under the sun. She also stated that, many immigrants fly the flags of their respective homelands as well, which, WOULD NOT BE TOLERATED IN JAPAN. i.e.; say we move to Japan, and I open up shop over there, which I can do legally since I'm now tied to Japan via my spouse (reverse immigration...you gotta love it!) there's no way that I would be permitted to display the American flag on/in/around my property over there. Period. I would be a resident "guest" there, and expected to fall in line. I'd likely ostercize myself, in an already foreigner unfriendly Japan and would face some sort of punishment from the antiquated legal courts over there. Incidently, many Japanese do not fly their own flag in the country, as it's still seen as a symbol of the war.

As for this particular incident, I found the video simultaneously funny yet disturbing to a certain extent. It was funny how the veteran (and good on him for doing what he did, regardless of a 15 mins of fame scenario) fumbled over his words in his immediate AAR. Oh, and his strut as he walked off from the scene was classic.

IMO, the hispanic business owner was probably attempting to show some form of "solidarity" for his fellow nationals, amongst all the raids that ICE has been carrying out. He obviously, and this is where the quality of the stock he came from may/may not have been lacking, gave his plan a nano-second of thought regarding counter moves and backlash. One can only come to 1 of 2 conclusions here. A: he isn't an intelligent individual and didn't think past the actions he was carrying out. B: he did think about some form of retaliation and simply said, "fuck it, I'm gonna do it anyways". Either way, he didn't make an intelligent decision, and he sure as hell didn't defend his decision, as far as for the after action, action, that I witnessed. In theory, one could say, good idea...wrong approach.

I did find this trend of events disturbing though. I recently heard a story in the news a while back, where a Vietnamese individual was elected to some form of Government in San Jose, California...I want to say that it was a Mayoral position, but I could stand corrected on that. Anyways, the City had received some press because it was now going to be a possibility to fly that elected official's flag of their homeland, alongside that of the State and American flag.

Keeping in mind the 10 commandments which were removed from a venue of Government, how can it be OK for a foreign flag to fly at another. I'm curious as to some of your opinions, on that issue?

Of course, also keeping in mind that California often plays by it's lone interpretation of the Constitution.:rolleyes:

[echoes]

In most countries, I believe flying your flag like that over the rightful one would get your ass whipped and your business burned down.
TR

Great point Sir! Cannot begin to imagine what kind of torture someone in said Country would receive.

Fly the American Flag, damnit...you are in America! :confused:

Holly

[Gypsy]

Keeping in mind the 10 commandments which were removed from a venue of Government, how can it be OK for a foreign flag to fly at another. I'm curious as to some of your opinions, on that issue?

Of course, also keeping in mind that California often plays by it's lone interpretation of the Constitution.:rolleyes:

I think you just answered your own question. ;)

Personally, I think it's beyond wrong.

[Scimitar]

My wife's a Japanese national. We had a recent conversation when in Japan a few months ago, that started out from my noticing, that, their country doesn't fly their flag as we do here.

Being relatively new to the States, I'd venture to say that it seems the US fly’s its flag more then any other country in the world, and definitely more then any country I've been to.

In fact, on my travels when I’ve heard Americans being knocked a common negative is about America’s over-patriotism. We call this 'tall poppy syndrome' where I come from. Fuckers hate the fact that Americans actually think Americas cool and don't mind saying it.

Stupid really, there’s a big difference between pride and arrogance and only the small minded can’t tell the difference.

Scimitar

[Razor]

I don't know, I think there's plenty of arrogance in the US to go along with the pride, Scimitar.

[Scimitar]

Yeah, didn't think it was my place being the new guy to go into that sort of detail. :D

Needless to say from my limited point of view, America is misunderstood in the places I have been, mainly because of the Liberal press agenda and peoples unwillingness to gain an educated opinion.

I.E. Iraq is about the Oil.

Thanks captain obvious. Part of the Iraq mission is to alleviate international oil pressure that if it goes to high will create all kinds of interesting problems.

But it's also about America’s international responsibility to bring peace and stability to our non-American brothers.

Another one I like is if America is willing to free Iraq why doesn't it free Cuba; I'm not even going to answer that one.

But hey I'm just an island boy, what do I know?

Scimitar

[Defender968]

IANAL, but I suppose he could be charged with tresspassing on private property and vandalism:

I'd have to check the laws in the state where that occurred, but in SC he could only be charged with larceny as the flag did not belong to him, the trespassing wouldn't work as he was on a sidewalk which is public domain, and even if it was considered part of the businesses property he would have a right to go to the business until he was told otherwise, so unless he'd been thrown out earlier or told he was no longer welcome he would be good on the trespassing. Vandalism maybe, as he did cut the rope, but it would have to be a hell of a liberal judge.

Personally I understand his outrage regardless of what the business owner thought about flying his flag, I think the vet's going to face some legal action, but hopefully he went into that knowingly. I know I deal with Hispanics on a regular basis both in my civilian LE job as well as my military job. One of my troops on my last deployment was from Puerto Rico, didn't speak English well, but was trying very hard, he was an extremely hard worker and probably one of the finest troops I've had the pleasure to work with. He's the type of immigrant I would like to see more of, unfortunately what I deal with on the civilian side is often the other extreme. I see mostly Mexicans who don't speak English, or at least they don't when it's convenient, who have no respect for our laws, and have no intention of assimilating. They strain our medical and legal systems and don't feel bad about it at all. And at the end of the day they want us to understand and accommodate them, but don't want to understand our cultures. My take is this is America, I don't want to press 1 for English, and I don't think flying other countries flags above ours should be tolerated, congress should do something positive for once and put some teeth behind that law, make it enforceable and we the local LEO's would be more than happy to enforce it.