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Sdiver
09-28-2007, 19:42
Wow, it's been a busy time here in Colorado as of late, what with those kids walking out of class during the Pledge of Allegiance, at a school in the People's Republic of Boulder, and Firebeef's full moon shots over the mountains, now we've got this also going on.....


The editor-in-chief of the daily school newspaper at CSU in Ft. Collins, wrote an editorial with this head line.......FU*K BUSH, in bold type, about 3 inches high.

Here's the story.....

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/25/bush.cnnu/index.html

Is McSwane, the Editor, exercising his 1st amendment rights, or is he wrong in printing this? The collage Republicans, on the CSU campus, are calling for his resignation. So far, a majority of the ads have been pulled from the newspaper. The other day, the paper was printed in Black and white only, because they didn't have enough money to buy colored ink.

IMO, the guy has a right to say what he feels, but NOT in the manner he chose to do it, and should be suspended for awhile, but not fired.

GreenSalsa
09-28-2007, 20:10
The guy has an absolute right to free speech, just like the sponsors have a "right" to pull their advertising ;)

Too often "freedom of speech" is confused with a misguided notion that they have a "right to be heard".

Eagle5US
09-28-2007, 21:39
Too often "freedom of speech" is confused with a misguided notion that they have a "right to be heard".
A most excellent point in this time of "entitlement" that seems pervasive in this generation.

Eagle

nmap
09-28-2007, 21:49
From the last line of the CNN article:

"It makes the students at Colorado State look like a bunch of uneducated children who don't have anything intelligent to say," Penoyer said. "So we just yell bad words."

I cannot improve on that sentiment.

Ret10Echo
09-30-2007, 06:15
From the last line of the CNN article:

"It makes the students at Colorado State look like a bunch of uneducated children who don't have anything intelligent to say," Penoyer said. "So we just yell bad words."

I cannot improve on that sentiment.

That is a sure indication that you have won the argument. First person to resort to name-calling loses.

Perhaps someone could mail him a Thesaurus to read during some newly found free time?

The school officials should respond in some fashion if they see this sort of thing as unacceptable. Not because of who was attacked in the article, but of the poor judgement shown in choosing how to go about the criticism.

504PIR
09-30-2007, 06:34
Maybe its just me, but I see less & less value in a college education these days.

My nephew and his college buddies are a good example, can't seem to finish anything, indoctranated into a failed, leftist ideology, unable to support themselves (ie moving back in with parents) & not very damm grateful :confused:

Hell this kid was raised on farm and now he no longer eats meat,"because its bad for the planet". Lord knows if I suggest doing something useful like join the Army and be a paratrooper(USMC, Navy, AF, anything actually)....I'm the bad guy.

Sorry for the rant, I just get frustrated. I realize if someone goes to college TO GET AN EDUCATION, not "discover themselves or some other nonsense" its worthwhile. This kid is lost as a goose and I can't do a d#$% thing. Unfortunately there is too many like him.

nmap
09-30-2007, 20:02
Maybe its just me, but I see less & less value in a college education these days.


It's not just you. You're absolutely correct - and, after some disclaimers, I'll even post a reference to that effect.

First of all, the number of college graduates between 1979 and 1999 grew from 17.9 million to 38.9 million. In 2002 688,000 were unemployed.

The above is from "Radical Possibilities" by Jean Anyon. It is written from a leftist - arguably a radical leftist - perspective. I personally found it both annoying and distasteful. Nonetheless, the author is considered a respected scholar in her field. (Which says some things, doesn't it?)

So, we've got a big supply and only so many jobs that really need a college education.

The other problem is...what, exactly, is the education colleges offer supposed to do? What do we want it to do? Is education supposed to provide salable skills that prepare a student for a job? Or, is it supposed to provide some core knowledge that about history, culture, and (maybe!) science for relatively pure intellectual purposes.

The first reaction to the above is probably to laugh loudly. But this has been an ongoing debate (and still is) for at least the past 150 years. Presently, 4 year colleges represent a compromise between the two concepts. Is either done well? There are reasons to question whether the output is worth the cost in time and money.

It gets worse. Universities emphasize research more than teaching these days. Not on paper - but that's the reality. So students get dumped into classes of 250 taught by a graduate student - one who may speak Mandarin or Hindi better than English. Papers are graded by an undergraduate grader who, in at least some instances, does not even read the paper before grades are entered. (Yes, I know this as a fact. I'd rather not get into the details.)

Add the above to a massive increase in tuition expense, and I suspect things will change; quite possibly in ways that are uncomfortable to many existing institutions of higher education. Whether that's good, bad, or otherwise I leave to others to decide.

Sionnach
10-02-2007, 12:38
When I hire, I look for experience. I'll take a guy with a HS Diploma and 5 years in the field over a guy with a PhD in the subject.

I know some sharp college grads, but we always have to train them before they're useful--I don't have time for that.

GratefulCitizen
10-02-2007, 21:54
Maybe its just me, but I see less & less value in a college education these days.


Half of the drivers at my center have 4-year degrees, the other half have some college education.

For most of us, it was well worth it for the experience, but the little piece of paper didn't offer opportunities better than the brown truck.


Degrees are largely just doorway papers anymore.

Razor
10-02-2007, 22:24
I believe degrees are what you make of them. They are not a golden passkey into a 6-figure salary, but they may be the first inch of pavement on the road to that job.

TooTall
10-02-2007, 22:51
My recommended solution: www.sjca.edu I have spent two years there already and I plan on returning when my contract expires, then reenlisting. There is also a campus at Santa Fe, which is a good bit more liberal, but it's backyard is mountains and desert, and the campus president is a West Point Grad. Hillsdale College is another good one, and among Ivy Leagues I trust Princeton. St. John's to my knowledge has only one special scholarship; for veterans of the Iraq war.

jwt5
10-03-2007, 00:31
I believe degrees are what you make of them. They are not a golden passkey into a 6-figure salary, but they may be the first inch of pavement on the road to that job.

Agreed. I didn't finish college. I left to join the Army. My friends have pretty much all graduated by this point in time, and with the exception of the two teachers and one nurse, none of them are working in the career field in which they studied. I believe it's because there's a notion in the academic world that as long as you have that piece of paper that says you graduated, the jobs just fall into your lap. Very few were aware of the fact that you have to work for a career (if that makes sense).

Ret10Echo
10-03-2007, 05:23
Agreed. I didn't finish college. I left to join the Army. My friends have pretty much all graduated by this point in time, and with the exception of the two teachers and one nurse, none of them are working in the career field in which they studied. I believe it's because there's a notion in the academic world that as long as you have that piece of paper that says you graduated, the jobs just fall into your lap. Very few were aware of the fact that you have to work for a career (if that makes sense).

Depending on where you end up you may (as in my case) hit a glass ceiling that is only penetrated by that little piece of paper. What got my foot in the door to begin with was the experience from military service.

JustinW20
10-03-2007, 09:04
In my humble opinion, a college education, like anything else in life, is what you make of it. I did two years, realized I was wasting my time (and my parents’ money) and enlisted. Once I got out, I had the maturity and self-discipline to finish my BA while working full time.

For many fields, a degree is necessary to get in the door, but it’s your performance that determines where you go from there. Most of my employers were more impressed with my military experience and the fact that I worked through most of college and all of grad school than with my degree, but I never would have gotten the interview if I didn’t have the degree.

GratefulCitizen
10-03-2007, 12:59
Half of the drivers at my center have 4-year degrees, the other half have some college education.

For most of us, it was well worth it for the experience, but the little piece of paper didn't offer opportunities better than the brown truck.

Degrees are largely just doorway papers anymore.

I just realized this post was a little unclear.

The point was: despite all of the opportunities which degrees offorded us, we chose a field which did not require a degree because it was an excellent opportunity.

It's a great country.
If you're willing to work hard, you can achieve much without a degree.
The degree just opens a few more doors.

Sdiver
10-05-2007, 19:05
Here's the latest on McSwane, the editor of the newspaper up at CSU.

http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_278065508.html

The little pud-knocker only got a slap on the wrist, in short, he was told not to do it again. :rolleyes: