Philly's solution to violent crime

[rubberneck]

I couldn't make this one up if I tried. The Chief of Police is calling for 10,000 male African American volunteers to patrol the city streets in an effort to reduce crime. This plan has the backing and the support of the Nation of Islam.

It must be great, as a sworn LEO, to wake up to the news that your Chief believes that you cannot get the job done and is calling for a posse to handle it for you. I am sure that their union is going to love the idea.

What happens when, not if, things really get out of hand? Who are they going to turn to then? The National Guard? If the Governor of Pa. had any brains he'd stomp this one out before it goes any further.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070913/D8RKQJ2O0.html


Philly Seeks 10,000 Men to Guard Streets
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Sep 13, 5:18 PM (ET)

By MARYCLAIRE DALE

(AP) Philadelphia Police Commissioner Sylvester Johnson is seen in Philadelphia, April 2, 2007. The...
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PHILADELPHIA (AP) - The city's embattled police chief, acknowledging that police alone cannot quell a run of deadly violence, has called on 10,000 black men to patrol the streets to reduce crime.

Sylvester Johnson, who is black, says black men have a duty to protect more vulnerable residents. He wants each volunteer to pledge to work three hours a day for at least 90 days.

"It's time for African-American men to stand up," Johnson told the Philadelphia Daily News, which first reported the story Wednesday. "We have an obligation to protect our women, our children and our elderly. We're going to put men on the street. We're going to train them in conflict resolution."

The program's backers include Dennis Muhammad, a former Nation of Islam official who has been hired by police departments in Detroit, Syracuse, N.Y., and other cities to conduct community-sensitivity training.

Philadelphia, the nation's sixth-largest city, has nearly 1.5 million residents, 44 percent of them black. It has notched 294 homicides this year. More than 80 percent of the slayings involve handguns, and most involve young black males.

Johnson plans to introduce the "Call to Action: 10,000 Men, It's a New Day" program on Oct. 21, three months before his planned retirement.

"He won't get anywhere near that number. If he gets 1,000 people, it will be great," said Heather DeRussy, who leads a local Guardian Angels chapter that has recruited just seven members in the past two years. Given its size, the group focuses on a single north Philadelphia park plagued by prostitution and drug use.

DeRussy lauded Johnson for his effort but said she fears the volunteers will find it dangerous to patrol their home turf.

"In their own neighborhoods, with the 'Don't snitch' mentality, they're kind of putting themselves in harm's way, because there are going to be people who disagree with what they're doing," DeRussy said.

The men who join Johnson's program will not carry weapons or make arrests but will instead emphasize conflict resolution, similar to the Guardian Angels' ground rules.

Police in other cities have hired Muhammad in recent years to provide sensitivity training to officers and community members, but it was not immediately clear whether any have deployed a volunteer patrol force.

Johnson, who had led the police department for seven years, appears increasingly frustrated by the daily gun violence. He and other city leaders have blamed the Legislature for not passing gun-control measures.

Mayor John F. Street, whose term is up at the beginning of 2008, has voiced support for the program, but it was not clear whether he would become involved. His office did not return a call for comment Thursday, nor did Johnson's office.

Street and Johnson have both endured withering criticism from frustrated residents and community leaders who say they should do more to halt the violence.

One gun-violence researcher said the idea of putting citizens on patrol had the potential to show children that adults care.

"A steady exposure to violence just creates this toxic environment for children and youth. As adults, we don't want them to think they have to handle it on their own," said Rose Cheney, executive director of the Firearm and Injury Center at the University of Pennsylvania.

"If, by putting people out there - not just as a town watch, but as resources who connect them to what they need from adults - that can be very promising," she said.

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On the Net:

http://www.10000menphilly.com/

[HOLLiS]

Rubbeneck policing has always been a community issue, Neighborhood watch along with citizens patrols. One city I was in had a evening patrol in the old downtown area. It worked very well. Most officer will tell you they do not prevent crime as much as they report crime.

IMHO, anything dealing with NOI is a sticky issue. That may convoluted this program.

[Eagle5US]

IMHO, this stopped being a "neighborhood watch" issue when they called for "10000 BLACK MEN to patrol the streets and reduce crime.
It's no different then when the mayor of New Orleans was calling for a revival of the "Chocolate City".

Community leaders such as these do little more than PROMOTE racism and segregation. It has the support of the Nation of Islam? Terrific, a pseudomilitant organization is going to be doing "conflict resolution work".
This is the 1960's all over again. Talk about a tremendous step backwards.:rolleyes:

Scenario:

Two patrolmen come up on a disturbance of 30-40 "resolving a conflict"...
LEO: What's going on here?
Posse: Nothing Officer-we have it handled....you can move on your way
LEO: Stand aside, we'll take it from here
Posse: I don't think you understand officer...WE are handling this on OUR OWN...MOVE ALONG.

We have in effect deputized and enabled mob mentality...very sad...

Eagle

[HOLLiS]

Eagle, I am too troubled because of NOI's involvement. The article seemed to put a positive twist on the concept;

"The men who join Johnson's program will not carry weapons or make arrests but will instead emphasize conflict resolution, similar to the Guardian Angels' ground rules."

When I was a elected official (city Councilor) one contribution I was a part of was establishing a community conflict resolution program, especially for issues that ate up a lot of officers time that were really not a police issue, such as "spite fencing".

I also think the positive aspect is that placing self responsibility on a specific community that has probably had to much of the entitlement mentality thrown on them.

Again, with NOI's involvement it may become as your scenario pointed out.

[82ndtrooper]

If I were deputized I'd want to be armed. Not for appearance or seeking authority posture but merely for my own self defense and safety.

That's just me.

Additionaly, I find this a petri dish experiment with unknown results. Will it work ? I hope for their sake it results in positive outcomes without negative repurcussions.

[Eagle5US]

If I were deputized I'd want to be armed.
My deputization comment was a perception of events...I do not believe the article relates that these men will be considered for official deputy types duties.

Eagle

[The Reaper]

If I were deputized I'd want to be armed. Not for appearance or seeking authority posture but merely for my own self defense and safety.

That's just me.

Additionaly, I find this a petri dish experiment with unknown results. Will it work ? I hope for their sake it results in positive outcomes without negative repurcussions.

Hey, I thought you were fleeing Federal apprehension in a murder case right now?

You are a conservative white firearms owner with prior military experience, you are clearly NOT the type of person that they want policing the streets.

You might actually appreheld or injure one of the perps in the act.

Seriously, given the extreme likelihood of violent crime being black on black, perhaps this was an effort to get members of the community to acknowledge the problem and become a part of the solution.

Just a thought.

TR

[rubberneck]

Seriously, given the extreme likelihood of violent crime being black on black, perhaps this was an effort to get members of the community to acknowledge the problem and become a part of the solution.
TR

Sadly in most urban areas cooperation with the police is just about the only unpardonable sin in the eyes of the community. Best case scenario for the city is that this plan doesn't work at all and dies quickly. The worst case is that the criminal enterprises located throughout the city use this program to support their on going efforts.

[82ndtrooper]

Hey, I thought you were fleeing Federal apprehension in a murder case right now?

You are a conservative white firearms owner with prior military experience, you are clearly NOT the type of person that they want policing the streets.

You might actually appreheld or injure one of the perps in the act.

Seriously, given the extreme likelihood of violent crime being black on black, perhaps this was an effort to get members of the community to acknowledge the problem and become a part of the solution.

Just a thought.

TR

Obviously I will graciously take that as a compliment. :o

[Airbornelawyer]

Perhaps the chief was inspired by the Anbar Awakening, after finding out that Ramadi is now safer than Philly.

[Ret10Echo]

They would not be able to wear the 'No Snitches' headgear...

Mind you this is the same city that bombed a building......

[incommin]

Perhaps the chief was inspired by the Anbar Awakening, after finding out that Ramadi is now safer than Philly.

Anbar was always safer than Philly :D


Jim

[mdb23]

More BS posturing......:rolleyes:

Hey, here's an idea.... how about Philly takes the gloves off and let's it's cops do police work? Let them arrest bad people (they know who they are), kick a couple of asses, and take the streets back. Quit wasting time and money appeasing the BS community activists, and stop hiring freaking reverse racists to teach your cops how to be "sensitive" to gang bangers, dealers, and pimps.

How about the prosecutors actually file charges on the arrests that cops make? Seriously, I know your case load is huge, but do it anyway. Do your job and take people to trial, and quite pleading everything out as a misdemeanor. I got a guy the other day who had dope and a gun on him.... he had 17 felony arrests on his record, but no felony convictions. Quit pleading sh*t out to misdemeanors and do your job.

How about a judge that actually sticks someone's a*s in jail every now and then? And not for 30 days of "shock" treatment. Some good old fashioned hard time.......

Make the criminals fear the idea of getting caught by the police. Make them fear being placed in the judicial system. Once the risk and fear outweigh the payoff of committing crime, then crime will go down....

Nah, that makes too much sense. Let's keep stroaking the community. The "Hug a Thug" program seems to be working so well all over the country....:rolleyes:

[Monsoon65]

If the Governor of Pa. had any brains he'd stomp this one out before it goes any further.....

He doesn't have any brains. Unfortunately, he's my governor.

[bull2808]

I don't usually chime in on the conversations here, however, I am presently a Philadelphia Police Officer. This doesn't surprise me in the least. The city is rife with corruption from our present Mayor( don't get me started) and throughout all of the departments in the city. I was born and bred here and am ashamed of what has become of a city that was once proud. The solution is to allow Police Officers to do their job and keep the PC/Political and any other bs issues out of it. The animals(read not minorities) inside the city are the problem. Like I said this isn't a surprise.

P.S.: Guess what faith our Police Commissioner is? Tick tock.
P.S.S: X Infinity what mdb23 stated!

[Kyobanim]

I don't usually chime in on the conversations here, however, I am presently a Philadelphia Police Officer. This doesn't surprise me in the least. The city is rife with corruption from our present Mayor( don't get me started) and throughout all of the departments in the city. I was born and bred here and am ashamed of what has become of a city that was once proud. The solution is to allow Police Officers to do their job and keep the PC/Political and any other bs issues out of it. The animals(read not minorities) inside the city are the problem. Like I said this isn't a surprise.

P.S.: Guess what faith our Police Commissioner is? Tick tock.
P.S.S: X Infinity what mdb23 stated!

Bull2808, You're welcome to post but, please introduce yourself in the introductions thread first.

[bull2808]

Done. I apologize Kyobanim.

[Five-O]

Hollis hit the mark when he said good policing begins with community involvement. These neighborhoods however have a culture of fear and taking care of things "internally." People know they will be targeted if they help the police. There are some neighborhoods in Philly where police get rocks, bottles etc. thrown at them as soon as the patrol car arrives...and if the police make an arrest they need to get out with the prisoner ASAP to avoid a minor riot. Some areas get a minimal police presence for this reason. Two weeks ago at 0104 hours I show up to a "rap contest" (at a local VFW of all places) which just ended. Literally within five minutes of all these (approx. 300) fine young men walking to the parking lot there are two stabbings and a situation that turned into a mini-riot. Neither were fatal but the victims would not assist us in IDing the doer. He and his "boyz" kept saying they did not see who did it but after a brief time started talking about revenge on the guy(s) that did it. I mentioned the above story to show how even with large stab wound(s) in their chests neither victim was willing to help police. There will likely be a shooting for payback in the very near future.

The solution is to take the gloves off the police. Just like school yard bullies, these idiots understand and respect one thing...strength, power and the resolve to use it consistantly. 99.9% of these guys are cowardly punks who are trying to earn respect from their peers. Police need the confidence that the admin folks are going to back them up when the officers are acting in a reasonable fashon. Apply for and get federal grant money to allow for a ton of over-overtime for police and allow outside (surrounding) police departments/Federal guys and PA State Police to enter the city and enforce the quality of life issues that begin the downward spiral. Allow Philly Highway Patrol to do what Philly Highway does best...make felony arrests and kick the shit out of the guy in the process. Allow the police to stop every suspicious car, ped (pedestrain) stop suspicious persons in high crime areas pat them down (keeping in mind the 4th Amend and case law:D) and get all the ILLEGAL guns off the street. Don't issue citations for marijuana posession...charge then with the misdemeanor and lock them up....zero tolerance. Put agressive officers and unmarked/seized cars and roll up on street corners and start locking guys up. There are dozens of tactics to use to slow down the violence we just need the will to do it.
I would hate to see my city turn into Detroit or worse.

[mdb23]

The solution is to take the gloves off the police. Just like school yard bullies, these idiots understand and respect one thing...strength, power and the resolve to use it consistantly. 99.9% of these guys are cowardly punks who are trying to earn respect from their peers. Police need the confidence that the admin folks are going to back them up when the officers are acting in a reasonable fashon. Apply for and get federal grant money to allow for a ton of over-overtime for police and allow outside (surrounding) police departments/Federal guys and PA State Police to enter the city and enforce the quality of life issues that begin the downward spiral. Allow Philly Highway Patrol to do what Philly Highway does best...make felony arrests and kick the shit out of the guy in the process. Allow the police to stop every suspicious car, ped (pedestrain) stop suspicious persons in high crime areas pat them down (keeping in mind the 4th Amend and case law:D) and get all the ILLEGAL guns off the street. Don't issue citations for marijuana posession...charge then with the misdemeanor and lock them up....zero tolerance. Put agressive officers and unmarked/seized cars and roll up on street corners and start locking guys up. There are dozens of tactics to use to slow down the violence we just need the will to do it.


Damn straight.

[5POINT56]

When the members of a particular community find their heros among the criminals, when their culture chooses to embrace "thug life", when they have wide speard "Don't snitch" policies within their own community, they have made a choice....as a community.

When a particular cumminity elevates, among its own, "leaders" who's primary function is to keep the racial divide alive and well...."leaders" who do everything they can to convince their own that they're ALL victims....of others. When these "leaders" point EXCLUSIVELY to external factors as the sole sources of their own communities ills, you get what you'd expect.

What you get are communities deeply rooted in criminal culture, you get stunningly disproportionate crime within that community, you get a community full of professional "victims" that are convinced, by way of their "leadership" that responsibility for their situation is not self inflicted, but the result of others, outsiders, "keeping them down".

"Victims" are responsible for nothing. If you're a "victim" of others "injustice", you're not accountable for anything. Your sole function is to point your collective fingers at those you've been programmed to resent...,.those you've been told are responsible. There is no imputus to focus that critial eye among your own...but rather at others, outside your community...all the while the problems do nothing but grow.

Until the black urban areas and communities demand better of their own people...demand a VASTLY higher caliber of leadership among their own and embrace non-criminal culture, nothing will change. And that's good news for Sharpton & Jackson, because without community responsibility and accountability among their own, these "leaders" jobs remain secure.

I, personally, have absolutely no sympathy for them or any of these problems. They have chosen this for themselves. Maybe one day someone of substance will rise up among them and demand a higher standard, but until that day comes, its their bed to lie in...and the rest of us will simply have no other choice than to navigate American culture among these breedding grounds of thugs that these communities produce.

Remember, "victims" never feel the fault is theirs. "Victims" are never accountable to anyone. And...a "victim" always has someone else to accuse for their problems. As long as we continue to dance around the truth, rather than speaking it, nothing, absolutely nothing will change. And like Five-O staed so well, until law enforcement wakes up and impliments stratagies that actually get the job done, nothing will change. The tools are there, the political will is not. You can thank Sharpton & Jackson for keeping law enforcement at arms length from these communities....because they've done a bang up job of pointing the finger at everyone but their own.

"Racist" is the most feared label in American society. Just ask Imus.