View Full Version : "Prairie Fire" x2
This is a recording of two Recon Teams (RT's) who are in dire straits. Both RT's are loosing a battle wherby death is immenient. Those RT's are: RT Colorado with Pat Mitchel being the 1-0, Lyn St. Laurent as the 1-1, and David "Lurch" Mixter as the 1-3. RT Colorado is an eight man team including the five Indigenous troops. The other was RT Hawaii with Les Dover as the 1-0, Regis Gmitter the 1-1, and John Justice the 1-2 (I believe this to be the case with this recon team as far as who was what on the team through natural progression of skills learned in combat.) May not be accurate though, reader and listener take note. Also, it is unknown to me how many Indigenous Troops made up RT Hawaii at that time.
RT Colorado is the team that is running for its life. RT Hawaii is holding their own. Both RT's have called out a "Prairie Fire" in Laos near the Ho Chi Minh Trail and are approximately 10 miles apart as the crow flies. Colorado has just been hit by a North Vietnamese platoon of 40 men who desire no more than to wipe this team completely off the face of the Earth.
During this Prairie Fire, David Mixter is killed when he saves Mitchel's life by shoving him to one side and exchanging fire with an NVA armed with an RPG. Mixter and the NVA exchange fire immediately. The NVA fires his RPG as Mixter fires his weapon. The RPG hits Mixter in the knee area and kills him instantly as the NVA drops dead by Mixter's return Fire.
What exactly does a "Prairie Fire mean? It means at least three things, they are: 1) You are in contact with a much superior force than yours. 2) Either completely surrounded or will be. 3) Death is imminent.
The other two "emergencies" were the following: 1) Tactical - meaning you are in engaged with the enemy, but you are holding your own for now. This could be upgraded at any time to a "Prairie Fire". Especially if you are surrounded and have allot of wounded. 2) Team - Somebody is sick or injured.
All pilots that flew gunships, helicopters, attack and fighter aircraft were given a "briefing" before flying in country. That briefing entailed what to do if a FAC has called out a "Prairie Fire" over the radio. By the rules in Vietnam everyone listening was to stop what they were doing and come to the aid of the FAC/Recon Team(s).
John "Plasticman" Plaster is the "Covey Rider or Backseater" on the afternoon shift with Captain Mike Cryer as the pilot of their OV-10 Bronco. They had just lifted off from Pleiku after eating lunch there and are heading out towards Laos. Ken "Shoebox" Carpenter is flying as the CR onboard the military version of the Cessna 210 Skymaster over Laos at this time. As Plaster and Cryer left for Laos they noticed how clear the sky was considering that most of January had been very wet. As they passed Ben Het below, Cryer switched their radio frequency over to "Shoebox" Carpenter's frequency and what you hear for the next 35 minutes is two RT's fighting to stay alive.
One other item of importance. The reason why you hear so many people talking at once is because allot of the helicopters and FACs had what is known as a "hot mic". What this means is that the microphone is always on and talking on it is much like talking on a telephone. Everybody can talk and hear responses immediately. The only exception to this is the Recon Team(s). They relied upon the PRC-25 and much later in the war the PRC-77 for commo and this meant that the RT could constantly moniter a channel (receive) and transmit by pushing the button in on the handset.
Also, the first "Prairie Fire" you here is from RT Hawaii's 1-0 Regis Gmitter and it is during their rescue mission. When you here Platster call on the radio: "I have your smoke, where do want the firepower brought in?" you will hear Pat Mitchel's voice stating that "Their is only two of us left and Charlie is dead on our ass!". Mixter was killed a few minutes before this and the Indigenous troops are nowhere to be seen. Also, it is during this time that Mitchel is carrying Lyn St Laurent as he is seriously wounded himself. They are fighting for for their lives. Pay special attention to the background noise when Plaster is talking. You can hear the twin engines screaming and an occasional burst of the four mounted M-60's. The continuos M-60 firing at the end is from the rescue Hueys doorgunners. One is firing one long string of 7.62 ammunition through his M-60 without stopping. It is still a very hot area.
Here is the following code names/words that are used in this recording that may be of use to the listener. Hopefully this will make the following conversations easier to understand and follow. Here are some of these words:
1) Plasticman John Plaster's personal call sign while on a RT
2) White Lead Huey in charge of flying the rescue mission
3) Delta Papa Three John Plaster's call sign while flying as Covey Rider in Bronco
4) Tango Papa Pat Mitchels call sign as 1-0
5) Panthers AH-1G Cobras. Also known as "Cobra"
6) Kingbees H-34 Helicopters usually flown by Vietnamese pilots
7) Bravo Hotel Ben Het SF camp
8) Delta Tango FOB at Dak To
9) Foxtrot Mike FM radio frequency
10) Victor VHF radio frequency
11) Uniform UHF radio frequency
12) Straw Hat/Type Code name for American personel on a RT
13) Kilo November Known North. Position is "Kilo November"
14) Lurch David Mixter's personel call sign
15) Winchester Air assets that are out of ordnance
Note: If any codenames/words are left out, they are unintentional. I ask that you either PM me or send a response to this thread with any question you may have. I will try and find out the answer and if I cannot, hopefully one of the SOG members here can respond to it. Any error(s) that may have occurred above are mine and only mine. I applogize a head of time for this.
Note: From my point of view, one should listen to this if possible, in a dark and quiet room with no distractions. This way you can hear and understand most of the recording.
This recording is dedicted to the greatest soldiers in the world, the men who wear the Green Beret.
www.professionalsoldiers.com/files/sog_recon_team_in_trouble.mp3
NOTE: For further information on this Prairie Fire x2, one should get "Secret Commandos, Behind Enemy Lines With The Elite Warriors Of SOG", By John L. Plaster
Ambush Master
09-06-2007, 16:16
I remember this day vividly, 29 January, 1971!! I was at One-Zero School and had just been through the Brightlight Mission (posted in the Briefback Forum: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788) one week earlier. We inserted on our FTX on the 28th and heard about these in the Club after we were extracted and de-briefed.
Later
Martin
Wootie6709
09-06-2007, 21:45
I found this link that has some pages from Mr. Plaster's book
http://books.google.com/books?id=JYT5UO_VHHcC&pg=RA1-PA297&lpg=RA1-PA297&dq=rt+colorado&source=web&ots=3TCJ7Hwi3D&sig=SiZRSW4per86mq-r-fde065N0h4#PPA3,M1
Ambush Master
09-06-2007, 21:53
This recording is dedicted to the greatest soldiers in the world, the men who wear the Green Beret.
After listening to this again,...............this tribute also goes to the Air Support Members that would get OUR FAT OUT OF THE FIRE!!!!!
As I was told several years ago, by an air crew member when I was invited to the Gladiator's Reunion, "You know, a lot of us thought that you guys were crazy getting off our Choppers where you did... and some thought we were nuts going back after you when you got caught... but we know they can never really know anything about it at all." This was from 1992, before all of this was de-classified and cleared for release, but there is also a very hidden message!!
Take care.
Martin
Deadhead 63A1
09-07-2007, 09:26
Wow... A unique piece of history right there.
I have one question though for those of you in the know. Was Delta Papa Three actually getting ALL of those transmissions to include the helo common nets (i.e. the chatter between birds on their internal frequencies)? If so that seems like a bit of overkill. We have a phrase this day and age for situations like that where you're processing conversations on multiple nets at once: helmet fire. That said, I've never come across anything as confusing as what I heard here!
As AM has stated, the Aviation units and their crews need to be recognized as the bravest and most courages of all the units flying in support of SOG. Whether you were Army, Navy, Marine, Vietnamese (VNAF), or the USAF aviation this is also to you, that I dedicate this CD.
How I forgot all of you, I am not certain. Please forgive me for this huge mistake.
Anyone else getting error on page?
Try to memorize the code words/names. It makes listening/understanding what your hearing, more realistic.
Stay safe.
Try to memorize the code words/names. It makes listening/understanding what your hearing, more realistic.
Stay safe.
Are you referring to my question? I can't download it. Probably one of my settings.
Ambush Master
09-08-2007, 08:00
Anyone else getting error on page?
From which link, Post #1 or #3?? You might need to turn your Firewall off to open it if your anti-spam/pop-up settings are set too high.
Later
Martin
Spartan359
09-08-2007, 09:51
Anyone else getting error on page?
You could always right-click on the link and save target as, then save it to where ever you save files on your hard drive. I did that and it makes playback abit easier. If you don't want to save it AM's method hit the spot and will work as well.
Got it thanks
Guy is right. If you know the code names it's not as confusing. You have to also listen to it more then once. It gets more interesting every time you listen to it.
Ambush Master
09-08-2007, 19:01
Got it thanks
Guy is right. If you know the code names it's not as confusing. You have to also listen to it more then once. It gets more interesting every time you listen to it.
You are correct!! There are many side conversations going on in it, beside the commo between the RTs and Covey!!
I probably find it easier to understand because I recognize most of the voices, having whispered in Plaster's ear for HOURS and have been "In The Loop" on several similar Ops!!!
Later
Martin
I believe that allot of the begining of the CD is chatter between the rescue helos and the Panthers crews from the first "Prairie Fire". If you can isolate them talking about what they just went through and their own opinions being voiced, you can then concentrate on Plaster's conversation and the second "Prairie Fire" in the background. You also have to remember that this tape/CD starts near the end of the first "Prairie Fire".
You also have to remember that this tape/CD starts close to the end of the first "Prairie Fire" and rescue procedures are well on their way.
Also, I have listened to it at least 50 times and on a regular basis I play it in my truck's CD player when driving and I still find it interesting and I do learn something new each time I play it. Just like AM stated that he understood the voices better than us because he was there, if you do listen to it more and have read any books on SOG you will pick it up much faster.
Ambush Master
09-08-2007, 19:25
Wow... A unique piece of history right there.
I have one question though for those of you in the know. Was Delta Papa Three actually getting ALL of those transmissions to include the helo common nets (i.e. the chatter between birds on their internal frequencies)? If so that seems like a bit of overkill. We have a phrase this day and age for situations like that where you're processing conversations on multiple nets at once: helmet fire. That said, I've never come across anything as confusing as what I heard here!
Only if he wanted to hear it. You could select any of the comms that you wanted active at any given time.
Later
Martin
Deadhead 63A1
09-09-2007, 03:36
Only if he wanted to hear it. You could select any of the comms that you wanted active at any given time.
Later
Martin
Cool, thanks. Yeah, I'd definitely want to be able to turn some of the nets off if I needed to. It's kinda silly to have to listen to one pilot chat with another about overspeeding on the landing when they're on their way home while at the same time you're trying to listen to a guy in the ground and get him out of trouble.
Ambush Master
09-09-2007, 10:30
Did you hear the Aircrew talking about how close the Pink Panthers brought their support fire?? He said that his door gunner had a piece of schrapnel land in his lap!!!
Those guys did put it where we needed it!!!
The slick drivers would actually come in through the tops of the canopy while we were standing on the skids!! Hence the vectoring that the top cover C&C ship was giving. I've actually gotten on the ground and later found branches stuck in the laces of my boots and spats!!
Also, did you hear the Door Gunners open up as they were comming into the LZs!! They would hose the whole way in and out!!!
CPTAUSRET
09-10-2007, 09:13
Cool, thanks. Yeah, I'd definitely want to be able to turn some of the nets off if I needed to. It's kinda silly to have to listen to one pilot chat with another about overspeeding on the landing when they're on their way home while at the same time you're trying to listen to a guy in the ground and get him out of trouble.
It did get confusing, but I never turned off a freq, just had to multi-task.
In addition to monitoring all the freq's, and guard channel, there was usually one of your crewmembers communicating via the intercom. That overspeed was a rotor overspeed, wasn't it?
I am going to have to listen to this again, it brings back a lot of memories! Some good!
CPTAUSRET
09-10-2007, 09:32
Did you hear the Aircrew talking about how close the Pink Panthers brought their support fire?? He said that his door gunner had a piece of schrapnel land in his lap!!!
Those guys did put it where we needed it!!!
The slick drivers would actually come in through the tops of the canopy while we were standing on the skids!! Hence the vectoring that the top cover C&C ship was giving. I've actually gotten on the ground and later found branches stuck in the laces of my boots and spats!!
Also, did you hear the Door Gunners open up as they were comming into the LZs!! They would hose the whole way in and out!!!
Martin:
Thanks for the heads up, Brother!
Total team effort, all the way!
CPTAUSRET,
I believe so. I also Believe that he stated something like he "Couldn't get this thing to land!" Now that is the main rotor correct?
CPTAUSRET
09-10-2007, 10:08
CPTAUSRET,
I believe so. I also Believe that he stated something like he "Couldn't get this thing to land!" Now that is the main rotor correct?
MAB:
I am not sure just why a rotor overspeed would prevent slamming that thing on the ground. Unless he REALLY overstressed something. Was it rotor overspeed under power? If so, the engine (gas turbine) could have been overstressed. Here's something for you to read.
Transport Accident Investigation Commission Aviation Rail Marine
spacer
Investigation 04-003
Bell/Garlick UH1B Iroquois helicopter, ZK-HSF, in-flight break-up, near Mokoreta, Southland, 23 April 2004
Report Extracts Full Report
O Abstract
O Safety Recommendations Download full report (808 kB PDF file)
Order hard copy: volume A83, price NZ $24.00 Order here
Abstract
On Friday 23 April 2004, Helicopter Services UH-1B helicopter ZK-HSF was on a ferry flight to Gore to facilitate maintenance work. En-route near Mokoreta a main rotor blade separated, the helicopter broke up and fell to the ground. The pilot, the sole occupant, was killed and the helicopter was destroyed.
The accident resulted from fatigue failure of a tension-torsion (TT) strap, a critical rotor hub component. The fatigue cracking had probably been initiated by an unreported rotor overspeed event.
Safety issues identified included:
· The need for pilots to understand the importance of reporting a rotor overspeed event
· The need for FAA and CAA airworthiness personnel and licensed maintenance engineers to recognise and respond to documented improper identification of critical finite-life components such as the TT straps
Safety recommendations to address these issues were made to the Director of Civil Aviation, and to the Administrator of the United States Federal Aviation Administration.
Safety Recommendations (SRs)
Ok, I understand that completely. I will listen to it again and see if I can hear more and figure out more details.
CPTAUSRET
09-10-2007, 10:42
Ok, I understand that completely. I will listen to it again and see if I can hear more and figure out more details.
Good.
The knowledge base, and information available on this website is as good as it gets!
Retired W4
09-10-2007, 13:56
....Ken "Shoebox" Carpenter is flying as the CR onboard the military version of the Cessna 210 Skymaster over Laos at this time.
I plan to listen to the tape when I get back to Georgia. As a purely technical correction, the Skymaster is a Cessna 336/337, not a 210. The mil version of the "Mixmaster" was the O-2, which was easily differentiated from a 336 by the presence of the hard points under the wings (for 2.75" rockets).
Dedicated C&C Hueys had radio consoles installed which had multiple FM, VHF, and UHF radios. That would probably explain the vast amount of traffic that apparently was on the recording. The typical slick had one of each.
Mouth shut until I get home to listen.
I stand corrected on the numerical designation between the 336 and the 210.
What was the deal with the Air Burst rounds. Then the one guy came back with "it wasn't an Air Burst" Some Dumb F*#$k threw a Grenade out the back"
CPTAUSRET
09-10-2007, 18:47
What was the deal with the Air Burst rounds. Then the one guy came back with "it wasn't an Air Burst" Some Dumb F*#$k threw a Grenade out the back"
I have had a CE, or door gunner carry frag grenades onboard, we sometimes hovered over spider holes and dropped them.
What I think happened in that case was one of the Indigenous troopers threw it out. I have some copies of various "Tips of the trade" that were wrote out usually by the company's First Sergeant so everybody could see what has worked in the past and what hasn't. AM, do remember what those papers were called back then? The name seems to escape me right now.
Anyway, in one of those tips it mentions that you should never throw a grenade from out of a rescue chopper because their could still be Panther's, air support, and other hueys beneath you. Now the Americans on the RTs knew about this no-no but maybe an Indigenous Trooper(s) did not understand it and maybe out of fear or rage he tossed one out while they were climbing to escape enemy AA. IMHO and nothing more. Could be wrong too.
CPTAUSRET
09-10-2007, 19:06
"LESSONS LEARNED" ?
In a way, that sounds correct. I have heard that title somewhere before too. I'll have to dig through my library on SOG.
Ambush Master
09-10-2007, 20:28
IIRC, it was "Lessons Learned" and was put together by the folks at B53 Camp Long Thanh.
There was also a post in here a couple of years ago:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=93450&highlight=%22lessons+learned%22#post93450
Terry,
The "Overspeed Issue", was a Main Rotor. We operated High and Hot in Laos!! We could only carry 4 folks per ship. Hence the question of if they could carry 6 out!! My 12 man team took a flight of at least 9 Slicks!!! Three for us and six more to haul us and the 4 man crews out if things went south!!
Cap and AM you are correct. I found it in a copy of the: POI 7658, Patrolling FTX, "Combat Recon Manual, Republic of Vietnam". Prepared by Project (B-52) Delta, HQ. Nha Trang.
Under "M-16/CAR-15 Tips", #[B]9 states: "During extraction do not fire weapons from helicopters after leaving the LZ because a gunship may be passing under you without your knowledge."
I would also think that this would also mean grenades and "any" aircraft passing below you. Just MHO.
regis gmitter
02-07-2008, 16:22
thanks for stopping by.......
The Reaper
02-07-2008, 16:49
thanks for stopping by.......
And you are?
TR
Ambush Master
02-07-2008, 17:15
And you are?
TR
TR,
Possibly a Team Member of RT Hawaii, MAC-V-SOG CCC!!! From above:
This is a recording of two Recon Teams (RT's) who are in dire straits. Both RT's are loosing a battle wherby death is immenient. Those RT's are: RT Colorado with Pat Mitchel being the 1-0, Lyn St. Laurent as the 1-1, and David "Lurch" Mixter as the 1-3. RT Colorado is an eight man team including the five Indigenous troops. The other was RT Hawaii with Les Dover as the 1-0, Regis Gmitter the 1-1, and John Justice the 1-2
Reg,...............is that really you?!?!?!
Take care.
Martin
Wow, thats some crazy s**t. One of the more intense recordings Ive heard. Hats off to all the Soggies out there.
With the proper equipment would it be possible to isolate some of the different "conversations" and then listen to them seperately ?
JW
I found it in a copy of the: POI 7658, Patrolling FTX, "Combat Recon Manual, Republic of Vietnam". Prepared by Project (B-52) Delta, HQ. Nha Trang.
Just came across this thread. The original document for this was titled "Reconnaissance Tips of the Trade" and was prepared by two of B52s most experienced NCOs, Joe Alderman and Norm Doney (who was the Recon Co 1SG at CCC when the Tips were written). This POI has expanded the original Tips and also has some of the elements found in the MACVSOG RT Leaders Handbook circa '69 plus a few other pics to 'sex' it up a bit I guess.
Richard
cornelyj
06-17-2008, 23:01
Thanks for the link MAB32.
I just stumbled on this thread and will order the book ASAP.
"working and coming in hot and heavy"
ranger2339
06-18-2008, 19:24
Wow this is some good stuff, I just got done reading Secret Commandos and this is just intense to listen to. I dont even know what to say but thanks!
Josh
Thought that I would re-post this thread for all the new people to hear. Should have posted this for Memorial Day.
Just heard this for the first time - takes your breath away - figured this thread needs another kickstart.
I had a few beers with Martin (Ambush Master) two days ago and listened for nearly two hours as he talked about much of his time on RT New York.
He mentioned Plaster's book, also which I have not read - but will as soon as I can get a copy. And that conversation eventually took me to this Thread.
Wow - has anyone ever attemtped a "written transcript" of this?
One interesting thing. I went though Phase 1 with Gmitter - haven't heard from him, or even thought about him since 1969. It appeared that he jumped in on this thread for one posting - but if so, he he didn't make a second. Anybody know his where bouts these days?
mojaveman
09-26-2009, 09:30
That was some interesting drama to listen to. When I was in 5th back in the mid '80s there were a few SOG veterans in our Battalion including LTC Tangney. I was fortunate enough to hear some of their stories first hand and they were pretty incredible. Those guys definately earned and secured their place in history.
That was some interesting drama to listen to. When I was in 5th back in the mid 80s there were a few SOG veterans in our Battalion including LTC William Patrick T. I was fortunate enough to hear some of their stories first hand and they were incredible. Those guys definately earned and secured their place in history.
Damn right!
SdAufKla
09-28-2009, 08:52
I literally got goose bumps listening to that.
Did I understand the comment at the end about turning the tape over to the next side? Is there more?
SdAufKla,
That is not part of the original. Was added on by a person that was never in SOG before and wouldn't know for sure.
Another Bump for those who haven't heard it before.
Ambush Master
05-31-2010, 09:55
After sunset this evening, I'll be listening to this again!!
Later.
Martin
TrapLine
08-24-2010, 20:46
I am currently finishing Maj Plaster's book and did a search to find this thread. Needless to say, I am amazed. To Martin and the rest of the SOG warriors, all I can say is thank you!
Ambush Master
08-24-2010, 21:24
I am currently finishing Maj Plastor's book and did a search to find this thread. Needless to say, I am amazed. To Martin and the rest of the SOG warriors, all I can say is thank you!
Which of his Books are you reading. He has several.
Later
Martin
TrapLine
08-24-2010, 21:37
Which of his Books are you reading. He has several.
Later
Martin
Sorry, I should have clarified that it is "Secret Commandos". I am planning to read his other works when I get the chance.
I am in the DFW area this week for work. Knowing that you could be in the area and catch me with the book is cause for concern:D:. Thank you again.
Ambush Master
08-24-2010, 21:59
"Secret Commandos" follows my own entry into SF and SOG to a "T"!! I've told John this and he and I are CLOSE friends.
The Picture History has a few of my photos in it, but the first book explains more of the background behind our organization. It wasn't until April, 2001 that we received a Presidential Unit Citation for Bravery!! I took my family back to Bragg (for the first time since I left for "Nam") and it was a MOST memorable trip!! I've been back several times now, and will be visiting more often!!
Take care.
Martin
Nucleusbrains
08-26-2010, 06:39
Ambush Master,
Thank You Sir! Welcome Home.
Ambush Master
09-06-2010, 08:00
A Bump for those that haven't found it!!
Delta Papa 3 is Plaster. At the end, he is questioning whether Mixter could still be alive before he LIGHTS UP THAT WHOLE AREA!! The Reference to the Straw Hat is one of us! 500 POUND SANDWICHES inbound!!
On my way to the SHOTSHOW this year I saw that book (Secret Commandos) in the gate before my flight and bought it. Lo and Behold, MAJ Plaster set up diagnally across the aisle from my booth.
I had heavily leaned on his Ultimate Sniper book back before there was a Sniper FM and I had copied alot of stuff from Fire/Air Support, Tracking, MEDEVAC etc., pubs to make my own FM for our Squad. I had just gotten out of AD after 8 yrs and was in a Natl Guard unit who put me in charge of their Sniper Squad which really wasn't anywhere close to the term
I went over and thanked him for that book. It helped establish our program and establish a program that lives in pretty similar form 20 years later.
I was talking with him for about 15 minutes when I realized that there were about 20 people that had formed up in a line behind me and were waiting. So much for my SA in Las Vegas.
Anyways, he in no way tried to rush me away and was seemed just about as down to earth and cordial as can be. I to think telling him how much his book helped a couple generations meanth something to him. If not, well he got a nice pen made out of bullets!
MK262MOD1
03-26-2011, 05:45
Just saw this thread today. I have had this recording for a couple years now. I share it with all my SF friends. To me it is an amazing piece of history.
At least once a week while I run I listen to it. In the woods out by myself.
Amazing men you guys are.
It is awe inspiring.
MK262M1 sends
219seminole
03-26-2011, 16:16
When I was on Hillsboro ABCCC I monitored more than one Prairie Fire and listening to this always brings back a flood of powerful memories.
Where do they find such men?
TrapLine
03-29-2011, 06:37
Where do they find such men?
I found myself asking the same question throughout the readings of the Maj Plaster's books. I recently met a gentleman at work who was a door gunner on one of the Huey's. It was a pleasure to just say, "Thank you."
David "Lurch" Mixter....tall guy on the right, January 1970, Alaska.
Big bump for all who have not heard this before.
Streck-Fu
01-20-2012, 11:35
I just picked up a copy of "Secret Commandos" and wanted to look at some of Maj. Plaster's other books. I came across a couple of isolated reviews of his books that claimed Maj. Plaster's accounts are false or exaggerated. In particular is the below claim on Amazon for SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam
Now I put more faith in the endorsement of Maj. Plaster's books found in this thread but am curious if this reviewer is actually who he claims to be. Is anyone familiar with him?
LINK (http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2JSM619QI8G3B/ref=cm_cr_dp_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview)
Reviews Written by Sherman R. Batman:
98 of 105 people found the following review helpful:
2.0 out of 5 stars SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam, May 30, 2008
This review is from: SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam (Paperback)
I am a veteran of SOG having served with CCC, FOB-2, Kontum RVN. After being assigned to ST Illinois I pulled several missions and suddenly found myself One-Zero (Team Leader) after the One-Zero quit Recon and moved on to the Hatchet Force.
I have conversed with John Plaster on several occasions and have purchased all his books. In this particular book I am mentioned on pages 89-90 where he (Plaster)tells what he says is the story of the "Bright Lights" mission that recovered the body of SP5 John Kedenburg MOH. I and my assistant Team Leader, One-One,Mike Tramel have read this tale and were absolutely astounded to learn from Plaster's book what a couple of bumbling heroes we were. In short, the only truthful details is our names. The date, and details of the mission are l00% BS.
In addition to our mission Plaster makes several stupid statements in his book that defy the imagination. For example:
He states that Thunderstorms in VN (SE Asia) do not produce lightning only thunder.
He was issued a Silenced Swedish K SMG. To the best of my knowledge and belief we had a plethora of Silenced Sten Guns/.22 cal colt woodsman pistols, a conex container of Swedcish K"s but none had silencers.
He always checked his safety just prior of getting out of the Helicopter to insure, due to humid weather in VN, that it had not rusted solid. Now this would be a real trick since the receiver of the CAR-15 was aluminium alloy and did not rust.
Going to the Club and singing "Old Blue" everytime a US SF soldier was lost. This never happened while I was at the FOB ,again to the best of my knowledge and belief. However, SFC James McGlon was known as "Old Blue" because he was always singing "Old Blue" at the Club.
This is just a few of the untruths I found in his book and I don't have it in my possession so I might extract other parts of his tales that I know to be incorrect. Suffices to say, that every SF Soldier (circa1968), that I have spoken with have the same opinion of the Plaster's Books.BTW Neither Mike or myself were interviewed by Plaster prior to the publication of his book
Streck-Fu,
I also have read this article but forgot who wrote it. Thanks for clearing up the name of the person who did write these comments. I do believe however that the comment on the Swedish K/w suppressor might be true. I have picture(s) of it somewhere. I'll dig out some photos and try and take pictures of the photos and attempt to post then here.
Streck-Fu
01-25-2012, 11:00
MAB32,
I searched and did not see this posted but imagine you are familiar with this site. I stumbled across it when looking for expanding information to augment my reading of Secret Commandos.
http://www.macvsog.cc/
It was the photo gallery that I first looked through.
Dave,
Looking back thru one of my books entitled "Jane's Infantry Weapons, 1975". There is a picture of one of those silenced versions. The caption reads the following:
"The Model 45 fitted with a silencer designed for the CIA. Although not very effective it has been used by American Special Forces in Vietnam."
I can photograph the picture in the book and place it here if you or others want verification.
-Mr. Plaster was correct. I can take a picture of the picture in the book if you want complete verification? I can get you some info on Mr. Batman if you can give me another day at the most.
-Although the lower reciever is made out of aluminum, the internals and the selector switch are made out of steel. With the weather and usage in SEA it just might be possible to have that piece rusting. Anybody know the answer to this question?
Give me until tomorrow to get some info out to you on Mr. Batman. Others here may know more and get it out to you sooner.
I just started reading this thread...
I almost started crying 1/3 thru post #1...
No, I have not listened to the CD yet. Will shortly.
I'm on AM's #17 (out of total 63 posts) now.
Wish to read all posts in thread before listening to CD.
All I can say at this point is good men have already lost their lives at this point, and the situation was dire to say the least.
Many pages and posts to go before I get to listen to CD.
I couldn't discern who charlie echo was.
EDIT: tango echo, not charlie echo. Also heard a Yellow Lead c/s toward the end, obviously a flight lead.
I only listened 1 time so far but have a pretty good ear for this as I have sat communication and operations involving aircraft, hence my signature. I plan on listening many more times.
Someone posted and mentioned earlier listen to how calm the voices are. I completely agree and this must have been great comfort and reassurance for all involved in these prairie fires.
There is a sense of immediacy and a high sense of professionalism involved. But no yelling no panicing no one trying to step on any one else, or micro manage the situation.
Sad for the loss of life, glad for those that returned. Thank you for sharing part of your life with us through the copy of this replay.
Adding topographical map Dak To:
http://www.rjsmith.com/dak-to-1-and-2-nf.html
Ben Het:
http://www.rjsmith.com/ben-het-camp-nf.html
http://www.rjsmith.com/173rd-border-battles-1.html
alright4u
01-27-2012, 17:02
Dave,
Looking back thru one of my books entitled "Jane's Infantry Weapons, 1975". There is a picture of one of those silenced versions. The caption reads the following:
"The Model 45 fitted with a silencer designed for the CIA. Although not very effective it has been used by American Special Forces in Vietnam."
I can photograph the picture in the book and place it here if you or others want verification.
-Mr. Plaster was correct. I can take a picture of the picture in the book if you want complete verification? I can get you some info on Mr. Batman if you can give me another day at the most.
-Although the lower reciever is made out of aluminum, the internals and the selector switch are made out of steel. With the weather and usage in SEA it just might be possible to have that piece rusting. Anybody know the answer to this question?
Give me until tomorrow to get some info out to you on Mr. Batman. Others here may know more and get it out to you sooner.
You want info on him- Batman? He is the real deal. And I never heard old blue sung from June 68-late April 69 either. I was at Omega, and Omega was trained in cross border OPS by FOB2 in 67 running out of the Dak To site.
People like AM and others who served in SOG that are members here should know more info on Mr. Batman. I already knew that he is the real deal a long time ago. I just do not have anything on him regarding his Recon Team(s)and his career that's all. Maybe you can tell us both on whose R/T Batman was on at that time?
I also have the maps of certain areas of Laos, Cambodia, S. Vietnam, and North Vietnam. They are dated back in 1970 or earlier. Mine are of "Dollar Lake", The "Bra", Tailhook, The "Golfcourse", some spots were F-4's were shotdown in laos or they were hit in NV and crashed in northern Laos. I'll have to look up in my maps to see what more areas they cover. These maps are either in 1-25000 or 1-50000 scale. I'll get them out of my limited amount of MACVSOG gear and see exactly what else I do have.
alright4u
01-27-2012, 21:24
Write the MACVSOG website. Robert will help if your reasons are straight up.
Ambush Master
01-27-2012, 23:28
You want info on him- Batman? He is the real deal. And I never heard old blue sung from June 68-late April 69 either. I was at Omega, and Omega was trained in cross border OPS by FOB2 in 67 running out of the Dak To site.
I ran on RTNY in the '70-'71 time frame and, as I recall, Olde-Blue was sung mostly in the "Covey Club" @ CCC. It would ocassionally "spill-over" into the NCO Club area, but was more of a Covey thing!!
You have to remember, that the "Covey-Riders" heard and were involved in ALL of the BAD-ASSED SHIT that went down, and that the losses that they saw were much more "Personal" to them than those of us @ either the Fwd Launch Site (Dak To) or CCC, who heard it over the air!! They were, as was often referred to by us when you talked about a radio handset, "The Umbical Connection to GOD"!!
Take Care Brothers!!
Martin
alright4u
01-28-2012, 16:06
People like AM and others who served in SOG that are members here should know more info on Mr. Batman. I already knew that he is the real deal a long time ago. I just do not have anything on him regarding his Recon Team(s)and his career that's all. Maybe you can tell us both on whose R/T Batman was on at that time?
I also have the maps of certain areas of Laos, Cambodia, S. Vietnam, and North Vietnam. They are dated back in 1970 or earlier. Mine are of "Dollar Lake", The "Bra", Tailhook, The "Golfcourse", some spots were F-4's were shotdown in laos or they were hit in NV and crashed in northern Laos. I'll have to look up in my maps to see what more areas they cover. These maps are either in 1-25000 or 1-50000 scale. I'll get them out of my limited amount of MACVSOG gear and see exactly what else I do have.
"People like AM and others who served in SOG that are members here should know more info on Mr. Batman. I already knew that he is the real deal a long time ago. I just do not have anything on him regarding his Recon Team(s)and his career that's all. Maybe you can tell us both on whose R/T Batman was on at that time? "
I recommended MACVSOG.ORG and Robert to answer your question. I will ask him for you. I am sure we can find that INFO.
Thanks 4u for setting that up. Nice of you to do that! Did you get my PM last night?.
alright4u
01-30-2012, 18:56
I replied but your inbox is full. It said you needed to free space to receive a PM.
I thought I cleared it all off yesterday. It shows a lot of room now Sir.
"Prairie Fire" x2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a recording of two Recon Teams (RT's) who are in dire straits. Both RT's are loosing a battle wherby death is immenient. Those RT's are: RT Colorado with Pat Mitchel being the 1-0, Lyn St. Laurent as the 1-1, and David "Lurch" Mixter as the 1-3. RT Colorado is an eight man team including the five Indigenous troops. The other was RT Hawaii with Les Dover as the 1-0, Regis Gmitter the 1-1, and John Justice the 1-2 (I believe this to be the case with this recon team as far as who was what on the team through natural progression of skills learned in combat.) May not be accurate though, reader and listener take note. Also, it is unknown to me how many Indigenous Troops made up RT Hawaii at that time.
RT Colorado is the team that is running for its life. RT Hawaii is holding their own. Both RT's have called out a "Prairie Fire" in Laos near the Ho Chi Minh Trail and are approximately 10 miles apart as the crow flies. Colorado has just been hit by a North Vietnamese platoon of 40 men who desire no more than to wipe this team completely off the face of the Earth.
During this Prairie Fire, David Mixter is killed when he saves Mitchel's life by shoving him to one side and exchanging fire with an NVA armed with an RPG. Mixter and the NVA exchange fire immediately. The NVA fires his RPG as Mixter fires his weapon. The RPG hits Mixter in the knee area and kills him instantly as the NVA drops dead by Mixter's return Fire.
What exactly does a "Prairie Fire mean? It means at least three things, they are: 1) You are in contact with a much superior force than yours. 2) Either completely surrounded or will be. 3) Death is imminent.
The other two "emergencies" were the following: 1) Tactical - meaning you are in engaged with the enemy, but you are holding your own for now. This could be upgraded at any time to a "Prairie Fire". Especially if you are surrounded and have allot of wounded. 2) Team - Somebody is sick or injured.
All pilots that flew gunships, helicopters, attack and fighter aircraft were given a "briefing" before flying in country. That briefing entailed what to do if a FAC has called out a "Prairie Fire" over the radio. By the rules in Vietnam everyone listening was to stop what they were doing and come to the aid of the FAC/Recon Team(s).
John "Plasticman" Plaster is the "Covey Rider or Backseater" on the afternoon shift with Captain Mike Cryer as the pilot of their OV-10 Bronco. They had just lifted off from Pleiku after eating lunch there and are heading out towards Laos. Ken "Shoebox" Carpenter is flying as the CR onboard the military version of the Cessna 210 Skymaster over Laos at this time. As Plaster and Cryer left for Laos they noticed how clear the sky was considering that most of January had been very wet. As they passed Ben Het below, Cryer switched their radio frequency over to "Shoebox" Carpenter's frequency and what you hear for the next 35 minutes is two RT's fighting to stay alive.
One other item of importance. The reason why you hear so many people talking at once is because allot of the helicopters and FACs had what is known as a "hot mic". What this means is that the microphone is always on and talking on it is much like talking on a telephone. Everybody can talk and hear responses immediately. The only exception to this is the Recon Team(s). They relied upon the PRC-25 and much later in the war the PRC-77 for commo and this meant that the RT could constantly moniter a channel (receive) and transmit by pushing the button in on the handset.
Also, the first "Prairie Fire" you here is from RT Hawaii's 1-0 Regis Gmitter and it is during their rescue mission. When you here Platster call on the radio: "I have your smoke, where do want the firepower brought in?" you will hear Pat Mitchel's voice stating that "Their is only two of us left and Charlie is dead on our ass!". Mixter was killed a few minutes before this and the Indigenous troops are nowhere to be seen. Also, it is during this time that Mitchel is carrying Lyn St Laurent as he is seriously wounded himself. They are fighting for for their lives. Pay special attention to the background noise when Plaster is talking. You can hear the twin engines screaming and an occasional burst of the four mounted M-60's. The continuos M-60 firing at the end is from the rescue Hueys doorgunners. One is firing one long string of 7.62 ammunition through his M-60 without stopping. It is still a very hot area.
Here is the following code names/words that are used in this recording that may be of use to the listener. Hopefully this will make the following conversations easier to understand and follow. Here are some of these words:
1) Plasticman John Plaster's personal call sign while on a RT
2) White Lead Huey in charge of flying the rescue mission
3) Delta Papa Three John Plaster's call sign while flying as Covey Rider in Bronco
4) Tango Papa Pat Mitchels call sign as 1-0
5) Panthers AH-1G Cobras. Also known as "Cobra"
6) Kingbees H-34 Helicopters usually flown by Vietnamese pilots
7) Bravo Hotel Ben Het SF camp
8) Delta Tango FOB at Dak To
9) Foxtrot Mike FM radio frequency
10) Victor VHF radio frequency
11) Uniform UHF radio frequency
12) Straw Hat/Type Code name for American personel on a RT
13) Kilo November Known North. Position is "Kilo November"
14) Lurch David Mixter's personel call sign
15) Winchester Air assets that are out of ordnance
Note: If any codenames/words are left out, they are unintentional. I ask that you either PM me or send a response to this thread with any question you may have. I will try and find out the answer and if I cannot, hopefully one of the SOG members here can respond to it. Any error(s) that may have occurred above are mine and only mine. I applogize a head of time for this.
Note: From my point of view, one should listen to this if possible, in a dark and quiet room with no distractions. This way you can hear and understand most of the recording.
This recording is dedicted to the greatest soldiers in the world, the men who wear the Green Beret.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...in_trouble.mp3
NOTE: For further information on this Prairie Fire x2, one should get "Secret Commandos, Behind Enemy Lines With The Elite Warriors Of SOG", By John L. Plaster
JUST A BUMP for all of you whi haven't heard this yet...
__________________
"If at anytime I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it."
Jeremiah 18:25
Ambush Master
05-09-2013, 21:47
Just listened to this again. Some of the younger guys may appreciate it.
Later
Martin
Just listened to this for the first time. Don't know what to say... I had goosebumps; but felt helpless knowing the situation of the - 2 remaining - men of RT Colorado (even though I knew I was listening to a piece of history). I will listen again to gain a better understanding of exactly the sequence of events.
For some reason I thought "Broken Arrow" was used to define a situation where an [RT] group was completely surrounded and outnumbered. (Ah. That's where I remembered it - from the movie, "We Were Soldiers". Actually a very good movie.)
But this wasn't a movie - this was for real. And "Prairie Fire" is about as good a "descriptor" as any to describe soldiers about to be overwhelmed by enemy forces. Did anyone from either of the RTs survive this nightmare encounter?
God bless them, AND those who came to their rescue! Thank you for posting this. I wish more people could hear - and understand - the realities of battle. Specifically those who would use the U.S. Armed Forces for their "social experiments".
Been gone 43 years, hard to believe. :(
A few months ago, I talked to Lyn St. Laurent on the phone for a long time. He gave me his view point on what happened that day. He had been very close to Dave Mixter when the RPG went off. Lyn is an amazing man to say the least. He says that he still keeps in touch with Pat Mitchell and others.
I will be talking to him again this week sometime.
tazaygul
02-02-2014, 20:26
Deleted
Koldsteel
02-11-2014, 21:15
Im sitting here listening to this for the first time.
First of all, Thank You one and all for your service ! I cant really come up with any better words.
And thank you for keeping this thread alive for me to stumble across.
January 29, 1971, remembering "Lurch"
Hand salute
RobGraham
03-27-2021, 07:30
Hi
I am working on a video game with SOA / former MACV SOG team leaders
My forum board intro is here (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=668060&postcount=2609)
Regarding the original post in this thread, is there any way to reach MAB32?
I would like to request permission to use his excellent detailed description of the events on 29 January 1971 on our website.
My email (robg@savage-game.com) if needed.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
Rob
RobGraham
04-26-2021, 02:13
Update:
I have now received confirmation from Pat Mitchell and Lyn St. Laurent who were both on the ground in RT Colorado, and John Plaster who was flying above in Covey, that we can use the original recording sent to us by mail. The sender Barry Subelsky also gave his permission.
Could someone flag my request to MAB32 please? We'd like to makecontact in the next week if possible.
We'd like to reproduce the original post here to describe the contents of the tape.
The audio has now also been cleaned up and digitized by our sound engineer and a copy lodged safely with SOCOM Command Historian via Major General Ken Bowra, who is in our team.
Thank you!
Rob
Harold - one strike and you're out.