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Jason17
08-24-2007, 14:08
I am currenly trying to get into the Army and have run into some trouble. A couple medical issues with eyesight ( I can't see the giant "E" at the top of the eye chart ), and headaches when I was young may prevent me from getting 18x, option 40, or any other airborne contract for my initial enlistment.

My most likely plan is to sign up for a different MOS and put in a packet for SFAS sometime in the future after my vision has been fixed and I prove that the headaches are not a problem. This is where my question comes in. From the SF team perspective, what would be the most helpful or applicable skill set to come in with?

I believe I still have the option of going regular 11x or 19d, ( not sure why they will allow a blind scout )or choosing a support job. More specifically, I was considering 98G. This would allow me to learn a language and get some other training that may or may not be valuable to an ODA. I will do my best either way and feel I have a solid chance regardless of MOS, but was curious as to which would make me more of an asset.

I posted an intro many months ago but to give a quick background: I graduate with a Business Finance/ International business degree in March, did well on the ASVAB, and am in pretty good shape ( although not in SF shape as of yet ).

Thanks.

Guy
08-24-2007, 14:30
I am currenly trying to get into the Army and have run into some trouble. A couple medical issues with eyesight ( I can't see the giant "E" at the top of the eye chart ), and headaches when I was young may prevent me from getting 18x, option 40, or any other airborne contract for my initial enlistment.

My most likely plan is to sign up for a different MOS and put in a packet for SFAS sometime in the future after my vision has been fixed and I prove that the headaches are not a problem. This is where my question comes in. From the SF team perspective, what would be the most helpful or applicable skill set to come in with?

I believe I still have the option of going regular 11x or 19d, ( not sure why they will allow a blind scout )or choosing a support job. More specifically, I was considering 98G. This would allow me to learn a language and get some other training that may or may not be valuable to an ODA. I will do my best either way and feel I have a solid chance regardless of MOS, but was curious as to which would make me more of an asset.

I posted an intro many months ago but to give a quick background: I graduate with a Business Finance/ International business degree in March, did well on the ASVAB, and am in pretty good shape ( although not in SF shape as of yet ).

Thanks.Am I reading this correctly?:confused:

Stay safe.

Jason17
08-24-2007, 14:53
I can't tell if you are seeing that correctly or not ;) . I have my vision corrected to 20/15 with contacts and am a candidate for eye surgery, but I don't have the money to get it now. I can see why they are putting a temporary ban on certain things because I would become useless without glasses or contacts.

Pete
08-24-2007, 15:02
If you drop your glasses I don't know if I want you behind me or in front of me.

They have standards for a reason. A very good reason.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
08-24-2007, 15:07
This is where my question comes in. From the SF team perspective, what would be the most helpful or applicable skill set to come in with?
I have seen a lot of young soldiers, and some not so young, think that they can develop a special packet of skills that will make them more acceptable to SF only to have to be broken from sucking eggs. You will be trained with those appropriate levels of skills required. Things that cannot be trained that would make you a valuable asset to SF, and any other organization, are things like integrity, ethics, self-discipline to maintain or achieve physical and psychological fitness, intelligence, ability to work as a member of a team, ability to lead and be led, and the complete and utter commitment to serving your country by fullfilling the duties and responsibilities expected of you without having to have someone look over your shoulder and doing so selflessly without looking for professional or personal gratification as a motivator to keep going.

Radar Rider
08-24-2007, 17:22
Am I reading this correctly?:confused:

Stay safe.

The 'giant E" thing concerns me as well. If glasses correct your vision to 20/20, then you may qualify for Army service. Eye surgery now will disqualify you from anything that you want to do; sorry.

Can you get into 98G? That would be your "in". Come in as a 98G with PT (Pashtu), PF (Persian Farsi), or AD (Arabic Dialect) and you have a good shot at getting into a Special Forces Group as a Special Operations Team - Alpha operator. SOT-A slots are 'Victor' (Ranger) coded. That would be a good starting point for you.

It all depends on YOU, though. Nothing will be handed to you on a plate, and you'll have to be ready to bust your ass every day.

Jason17
08-24-2007, 19:18
Things that cannot be trained that would make you a valuable asset to SF, and any other organization, are things like integrity, ethics, self-discipline to maintain or achieve physical and psychological fitness, intelligence, ability to work as a member of a team, ability to lead and be led, and the complete and utter commitment to serving your country by fullfilling the duties and responsibilities expected of you without having to have someone look over your shoulder and doing so selflessly without looking for professional or personal gratification as a motivator to keep going.

Yes sir I see what you mean as SF is not a school for moral improvement and these qualities need to be developed before hand. I believe I have a good moral and ethical quality and try to uphold that in my civilian life and will hopefully be able to do the same in the Army.

Assuming someone has the necessary qualities such as the integrity, ehtics, self-discipline, intelligence, etc. what are some things that can be learned that would make the team more effective? I am sure SF does a great job training people to maximize a teams effectiveness, but one of the qualities that seems to make Special Forces "special" seems to be the variety and expertise of the backgrounds of each member. Maybe if I bring in a certain trainable skill that the team lacks or needs reinforced, I could step in and fill the void ( this of course in addition to my SF MOS and other assigned duties ).

Eye surgery now will disqualify you from anything that you want to do; sorry.

Another good point, I don't want to degrade my resume` any further.

Can you get into 98G? That would be your "in". Come in as a 98G with PT (Pashtu), PF (Persian Farsi), or AD (Arabic Dialect) and you have a good shot at getting into a Special Forces Group as a Special Operations Team - Alpha operator. SOT-A slots are 'Victor' (Ranger) coded. That would be a good starting point for you.


This is similar to what I had in mind when I was researching this particular MOS.

I appreciate the responses.

Radar Rider
08-24-2007, 19:37
This is similar to what I had in mind when I was researching this particular MOS.

I appreciate the responses.

So, what are you going to do?

Jack Moroney (RIP)
08-24-2007, 20:12
but one of the qualities that seems to make Special Forces "special" seems to be the variety and expertise of the backgrounds of each member. .

The thing, IMHO, that makes SF "special" are those folks that make a total commitment to the core values, physical and psychological demands, and mission driven tasks required of the Special Forces soldier. You cannot make a commitment to anything unless the core values that drive you overlap the core values of that to which you are committed. The fact that individuals within Special Forces are diverse in background and experience adds luster to the sword but the edge of the sword is honed by years of training and experience within the force.

Jason17
08-24-2007, 23:03
The thing, IMHO, that makes SF "special" are those folks that make a total commitment to the core values, physical and psychological demands, and mission driven tasks required of the Special Forces soldier. You cannot make a commitment to anything unless the core values that drive you overlap the core values of that to which you are committed. The fact that individuals within Special Forces are diverse in background and experience adds luster to the sword but the edge of the sword is honed by years of training and experience within the force.

I see, so it doesn't really matter what I choose, so long as my commitment to the ultimate goal is in order.

So, what are you going to do?

Radar Rider,

The 98G path is something I need to research a bit more to see if it is really something I want to start out with. I would like to ask you some specific questions on this job and your other experiences in the MI field if you wouldn't mind.

jatx
08-25-2007, 12:17
The 98G path is something I need to research a bit more to see if it is really something I want to start out with. I would like to ask you some specific questions on this job and your other experiences in the MI field if you wouldn't mind.

Unless they are too personal, you might consider asking your (well-framed) questions in the open. The SOT-A path is an interesting but seldom-discussed option that other recruits will also be interested in.

NotME
08-25-2007, 14:14
Unless things have changed, MOS 98G is unique among Army MOSs in one critical respect for this plan of yours. That is, it is not possible to attend SFAS as a 98G. (Again, unless things have changed!) Forever and ever there was a moratorium on MOS qualified 98Gs from attending SFAS because they are always in critically short supply (or so I was told). It was very difficult to change your MOS for any reason, even as a re-enlistment option. Lots and lots of SOT-A guys would have loved to go to SFAS, and some did, but branch would not release us to change our MOS to anything at all - not even 18 series. I know first hand, having been through it myself. I tried three different times to "slip through the cracks", but to no avail.

Jason17
08-25-2007, 18:32
Unless things have changed, MOS 98G is unique among Army MOSs in one critical respect for this plan of yours. That is, it is not possible to attend SFAS as a 98G. (Again, unless things have changed!) Forever and ever there was a moratorium on MOS qualified 98Gs from attending SFAS because they are always in critically short supply (or so I was told). It was very difficult to change your MOS for any reason, even as a re-enlistment option. Lots and lots of SOT-A guys would have loved to go to SFAS, and some did, but branch would not release us to change our MOS to anything at all - not even 18 series. I know first hand, having been through it myself. I tried three different times to "slip through the cracks", but to no avail.

That is definitely cause for concern. Why is 98G always undermanned? I would imagine that given the choice of having someone walk away from the Army at reenlistment time or choose what they want to do, the Army would choose the latter. Then again, I have had no prior experiences with the Army other than recruiting, and I can say I have seen more efficient processes.

Unless they are too personal, you might consider asking your (well-framed) questions in the open. The SOT-A path is an interesting but seldom-discussed option that other recruits will also be interested in.

I would have no problem asking the questions out in the open. My concern is in causing any OPSEC problems on an open forum, but I suppose anyone with truthful information regarding this type of thing would know what not to divulge. I am doing some searching to see if I can find information on my own, but I can tell there is not too much available.

jatx
08-25-2007, 18:51
I would have no problem asking the questions out in the open. My concern is in causing any OPSEC problems on an open forum

A question does not constitute an OPSEC hazard, and the individuals providing the answers know how to edit themselves. ;)

jwt5
08-25-2007, 20:03
That is definitely cause for concern. Why is 98G always undermanned?
I would have no problem asking the questions out in the open. My concern is in causing any OPSEC problems on an open forum, but I suppose anyone with truthful information regarding this type of thing would know what not to divulge. I am doing some searching to see if I can find information on my own, but I can tell there is not too much available.

98G is undermanned for two reasons. One, it's a tough course, especially for the Arabic/Pharsi speakers. Two, experienced 98Gs with high DLAB scores can make a nice chunk of change in the private sector. (An ex-girl friend of mine was a 98G Arabic speaker).

As far as the OPSEC worries, well, don't worry. You don't know anything that can be an OPSEC concern. The rest of us, well, we'll answer what we can, but we'll tell you when we can't ;)

The Reaper
08-25-2007, 23:22
Jason:

Vision is discussed in at least one of the stickies or intros.

A standard is a standard because it is a requirement. If you can't see any better than Mr. Magoo without corrective lenses, we can't use you.

We have explained at length why people with serious disabilities do not belong on ODAs.

Do some searching and reading to see why.

Best of luck.

TR

Jason17
08-26-2007, 10:02
TR,

I agree 100% with the reasoning behind the standards. I am also positive I will have eye surgery at some point in the next few years. My goal for right now is to get in and put myself into a position to achieve my goals somewhere down the road. What I do find interesting is that while my vision is bad, I do already meet the requirements for a "2" on the eye portion of the physical, :lifter which is what 18x requires. However, I have not actually taken the physical at MEPS.

"E" Position - Vision–eyes (5th number in the profile series) - Visual acuity, and organic disease of the eyes and lids.

1 - Uncorrected visual acuity 20/200 correctable to 20/ 20, in each eye.

2 - Distant visual acuity correctable to not worse than 20/40 and 20/70, or 20/30 and 20/100, or 20/20 and 20/ 400.

3 - Uncorrected distant visual acuity of any degree that is correctable not less than 20/40 in the better eye.

4 - Visual acuity below the standards of "3."

Jason17
08-26-2007, 10:22
I have a couple of preliminary questions on SOTA that will hopefully point me in the right direction for future inquiries. I wanted an idea on the general structure and where these people come from.

1. What MOS' are eligible, and what is the usual makeup of each on a team?

2. How many people are on a team? If it is a set number, what is the significance of that number?

3. I haven't been able to find much on the 11V identifier. According to my understanding, anyone who is in the 75th has an 11V identifier. Does this mean all SOTA members are part of the 75th but attached to different units? What is the difference between a 98G who is part of SOTA, or just a 98G attached to an SF team or a Ranger unit?

4. What are the physical requirements? Not necessarily how far should I be able to ruck, but things like health requirements and such. If you can pass an Airborne physical, are you good to go?

5. I realize being on one of these teams is not an MOS in and of itself, but is it similar to SF in that once you enter this portion of the Army, you can stay there, or do you spend a little while on one of these teams and get sent back to "normal" duty?

6. Who is in charge of recruiting for SOTA? When do people normally put in an application? During the initial training phase, a year after you are with your first unit, or perhaps longer?

7. Are there 9,000 ( arbitrary ) people in the Army trying to get on a team when there are only a couple dozen ( more arbitrarity? arbitraritiness? ) slots?

That is it for now. I am overflowing with questions but some information on these just might clear some things up. I also have some general 98G or other MOS questions as well.

On a side note, we had a guy at church today come back from Iraq and got a nice unplanned standing ovation this morning. Its not much, but it is good to see some people not affiliated with the Military appreciate what is going on in the world, and are not "supportive" of the Military simply because it would be political suicide to say otherwise. We are only about half an hour from FT. Hood so it is a pro military area.

I am also planning to call the local SF recruiter and ask him which MOS' are not allowed their SF chance.

I appreciate it.

Radar Rider
08-26-2007, 15:31
I have a couple of preliminary questions on SOTA that will hopefully point me in the right direction for future inquiries. I wanted an idea on the general structure and where these people come from.

1. What MOS' are eligible, and what is the usual makeup of each on a team?

2. How many people are on a team? If it is a set number, what is the significance of that number?

3. I haven't been able to find much on the 11V identifier. According to my understanding, anyone who is in the 75th has an 11V identifier. Does this mean all SOTA members are part of the 75th but attached to different units? What is the difference between a 98G who is part of SOTA, or just a 98G attached to an SF team or a Ranger unit?

4. What are the physical requirements? Not necessarily how far should I be able to ruck, but things like health requirements and such. If you can pass an Airborne physical, are you good to go?

5. I realize being on one of these teams is not an MOS in and of itself, but is it similar to SF in that once you enter this portion of the Army, you can stay there, or do you spend a little while on one of these teams and get sent back to "normal" duty?

6. Who is in charge of recruiting for SOTA? When do people normally put in an application? During the initial training phase, a year after you are with your first unit, or perhaps longer?

7. Are there 9,000 ( arbitrary ) people in the Army trying to get on a team when there are only a couple dozen ( more arbitrarity? arbitraritiness? ) slots?

That is it for now. I am overflowing with questions but some information on these just might clear some things up. I also have some general 98G or other MOS questions as well.

On a side note, we had a guy at church today come back from Iraq and got a nice unplanned standing ovation this morning. Its not much, but it is good to see some people not affiliated with the Military appreciate what is going on in the world, and are not "supportive" of the Military simply because it would be political suicide to say otherwise. We are only about half an hour from FT. Hood so it is a pro military area.

I am also planning to call the local SF recruiter and ask him which MOS' are not allowed their SF chance.

I appreciate it.

All of my paternal instincts wanted to answer those questions. My OPSEC self can't answer all of those questions. If you want to be a 98G, you can PM me and I'll evaluate the worthiness of your questions.

Radar Rider
08-26-2007, 15:45
On a side note, we had a guy at church today come back from Iraq and got a nice unplanned standing ovation this morning. Its not much, but it is good to see some people not affiliated with the Military appreciate what is going on in the world

Every returnee is recognized in our church. All are well greeted and appreciated.

The Reaper
08-26-2007, 17:36
I have a couple of preliminary questions on SOTA that will hopefully point me in the right direction for future inquiries. I wanted an idea on the general structure and where these people come from.

1. What MOS' are eligible, and what is the usual makeup of each on a team?

2. How many people are on a team? If it is a set number, what is the significance of that number?

3. I haven't been able to find much on the 11V identifier. According to my understanding, anyone who is in the 75th has an 11V identifier. Does this mean all SOTA members are part of the 75th but attached to different units? What is the difference between a 98G who is part of SOTA, or just a 98G attached to an SF team or a Ranger unit?

4. What are the physical requirements? Not necessarily how far should I be able to ruck, but things like health requirements and such. If you can pass an Airborne physical, are you good to go?

5. I realize being on one of these teams is not an MOS in and of itself, but is it similar to SF in that once you enter this portion of the Army, you can stay there, or do you spend a little while on one of these teams and get sent back to "normal" duty?

6. Who is in charge of recruiting for SOTA? When do people normally put in an application? During the initial training phase, a year after you are with your first unit, or perhaps longer?

7. Are there 9,000 ( arbitrary ) people in the Army trying to get on a team when there are only a couple dozen ( more arbitrarity? arbitraritiness? ) slots?

That is it for now. I am overflowing with questions but some information on these just might clear some things up. I also have some general 98G or other MOS questions as well.

On a side note, we had a guy at church today come back from Iraq and got a nice unplanned standing ovation this morning. Its not much, but it is good to see some people not affiliated with the Military appreciate what is going on in the world, and are not "supportive" of the Military simply because it would be political suicide to say otherwise. We are only about half an hour from FT. Hood so it is a pro military area.

I am also planning to call the local SF recruiter and ask him which MOS' are not allowed their SF chance.

I appreciate it.

You have a lot of questions. For all we know, you could be an American Taliban member.

You should be getting these answers from a recruiter, face to face. He is paid, at least partially, to answer your questions.

Nothing you will get here is enforceable, or necessarily credible.

Good luck.

TR

Jason17
08-26-2007, 19:50
You have a lot of questions. For all we know, you could be an American Taliban member.

You should be getting these answers from a recruiter, face to face. He is paid, at least partially, to answer your questions.

Nothing you will get here is enforceable, or necessarily credible.

Good luck.

TR

Any ideas as to where a recruiter is located that has some knowledge on this subject? I am 101% sure my recruiter has no clue as to even where to begin answering such questions. I am also 101% sure she will come up with something to say

I have talked to several recruiters at my station ( FT Hood ) about the option 40 contract as well as some general Ranger Regiment questions. Every time I had to explain the option 40 contract. Inaccurate statements and BS was highly prevalent in my conversations.:boohoo Come to think of it, I am not sure I talked to anyone who knew the difference between going to RIP and earning your place in the 75th to going to Ranger school and becoming Ranger qualified. They are helpful people and all communication is professional and not blatant trickery, but it is difficult to find someone who is in the know. I am going to give the SF recruiter a call tomorrow so maybe he will know more.

I appreciate the help and I agree that this is not the best place for such discussions.

By the way, I live in Texas but go to school in Seattle, so if anyone knows any recruiters in either location that know what is going on and would be willing to talk to me, let me know! I realize most of these things I do not need to know but I like to be well informed so I can avoid future problems and get to where I want to go.

jatx
08-26-2007, 20:50
Call the recruiter for 2-20th SFG (A), his number is on our homepage. He is a QP with a reputation that proceeds him and will square you away. We have both SOT-A's and 98G's in the BSC.

Jason17
08-26-2007, 22:20
Thank you jatx.

shadowwalker
08-26-2007, 23:11
I also have some general 98G or other MOS questions as well.


I don't know about the SF questions you are asking, but at one time I had a secondary of 98G. Also during 911 I was working in the S-2 shop for a BDE. I trained three 98G just out of AIT. Lastly, I spent my last year In the military, before I retired, attached to a MI Unit. If you want to PM me I can answer the day to day questions you might have about the MOS in general. I will say that with technology things change and some of my knowledge my be outdated. But I should be able as I said to give you a realistic view of the 98G MOS.

Jason17
08-27-2007, 10:03
Radar Rider - PM sent

Shadowwalker - PM sent

shadowwalker
08-28-2007, 01:51
PM in route. Hope it helps.

tom kelly
09-04-2007, 13:21
Jason,I see that you live in the Seattle,Wa. area,Do you know where Ft.Lewis is and how to get there? Second,call this phone number (253)966-7327 that is the number for the Special Forces Recruting Detachment at Ft.Lewis their address is Bldg.9181 RM 152 Cramer Street...Special Forces personal hold a briefing every Wednesday at the Evergreen Theater call them and ask for the times and the directions...Also The 1st Special Forces Gp.(Abn) is holding their 50th Reunion at the Seattle Airport Doubletree Hotel starting 8:00AM Thrusday 6 September through 12:00 Noon Tuesday 11 September 2007...FYI if you are interested in meeting some SF soldiers from the 1st Group.I will be there so if you would like to talk to me call the hotel....Regards,Tom Kelly

Jason17
09-07-2007, 07:28
Tom,

I appreciate the offer. I go to SPU and just began a study abroad trip for this quarter. I will be back in Seattle in January so if you are around, I would definitely like to talk.

Jason

MikeBravo1
09-12-2007, 13:55
I am in a similar situation, so I will add my questions to this thread in lieu of posting a new one.

I am currently renegotiating my contract from 11x (11b) to 97e, with an airborne option. I have been in contact with retired service personnel who were 97e, 98g, and 97b during their military careers, and this route seems best suited to my personality, as well as being one of the few MOS's that will allow me to study a language at DLI. Eventually I plan to volunteer for Special Forces.

I am going to call the 2-20th SFG (A) Recruiter this week in regards to questions pertaining to SOTA, which is an option I am looking into, but which there is not a lot of information available.

I am in the Philadelphia, PA area, so if anyone is able to aid me in my endeavors, please let me know.

This is a question whose answer may be an OPSEC violation: Are 97b's attached to SF units? There is no 97b enlistment option that I am aware of, it requires two years of servuce before applying, and is a route I am thinking of taking, and I am curious as to where this MOS would be deployed and to whom it would be attached to.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

jatx
09-12-2007, 14:28
I am in a similar situation, so I will add my questions to this thread in lieu of posting a new one.

I am currently renegotiating my contract from 11x (11b) to 97e, with an airborne option. I have been in contact with retired service personnel who were 97e, 98g, and 97b during their military careers, and this route seems best suited to my personality, as well as being one of the few MOS's that will allow me to study a language at DLI. Eventually I plan to volunteer for Special Forces.

I am going to call the 2-20th SFG (A) Recruiter this week in regards to questions pertaining to SOTA, which is an option I am looking into, but which there is not a lot of information available.

I am in the Philadelphia, PA area, so if anyone is able to aid me in my endeavors, please let me know.

This is a question whose answer may be an OPSEC violation: Are 97b's attached to SF units? There is no 97b enlistment option that I am aware of, it requires two years of servuce before applying, and is a route I am thinking of taking, and I am curious as to where this MOS would be deployed and to whom it would be attached to.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

You're a long way from Jackson - are you ready to travel every month for drill? FWIW, I would ask SFC Summers about opportunities in Kentucky, where we also have MI soldiers located.