View Full Version : Why you don't mess with girls under 18 years old...
Father Accused of Shooting, Paralyzing Daughter's Boyfriend After Finding Him in Closet
Saturday, August 18, 2007
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BENTONVILLE, Ark. — A man accused of shooting and paralyzing his daughter's boyfriend has been charged with first-degree battery and a terroristic act.
George David Reed, 48, of Highfill was arrested July 31 in the shooting of Michael Austin Guzman, 19.
Reed was charged Friday in Benton County Circuit Court and is free on a $150,000 bond. His arraignment is set for Sept. 10.
Authorities say Reed came home and found Guzman hiding in the closet of his 17-year-old daughter's bedroom. Police said Reed beat Guzman with a pool stick, then left the room to retrieve a gun. Guzman and his girlfriend blocked the bedroom door with a dresser, and Reed began shooting through the door, police said.
A bullet struck Guzman in the back and lodged in his spinal cord, fracturing three vertebrae. Doctors don't expect Guzman to regain any feeling or mobility below his waist, authorities said.
If convicted, Reed faces up to life in prison.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293714,00.html
The Reaper
08-19-2007, 19:15
Saw that, and could relate, minus the shooting through the door and hitting him accidentally.
TR
82ndtrooper
08-19-2007, 21:32
Since he's parlyzed from the waist down he's got no use sneaking in any girlfriends bedroom and hiding. :munchin
You did NOT hide...you RAN and I mean fast!
Stay safe.
Team Sergeant
08-20-2007, 09:08
It could have been worse, he could have been hiding in ny house......:rolleyes:
My sympathy lies with the father.
TS
Harsh...You guys must not have teen sons. Blindly firing through a door and paralyzing a kid? If I were on the jury he'd get 20 years.
He is damn lucky he didn't hit his daughter, leaving her paralyzed from the waist down, or worse.
He is a dangerous individual.
Team Sergeant
08-20-2007, 09:56
He is damn lucky he didn't hit his daughter, leaving her paralyzed from the waist down, or worse.
He is a dangerous individual.
You are absolutely correct sir, placing his daughter in danger was stupid.
Harsh...You guys must not have teen sons.
And if I did I would teach them what is proper and acceptable behavior and what is not.
At 19 he would not be considered a child. He will now pay the high price of extreme stupidity.
TS
At 19 he would not be considered a child. He will now pay the high price of extreme stupidity.
TS
And at 17, the girl isn't either (in many states).
I would want to see more of the facts in this case before I declare the young man a pervert, sh*tbag, or deserving of being shot.
The girl could be hell on wheels for all we know, and might have met this guy at a mall and invited him back to her house. He may have had no reason at all to believe that he wasn't allowed there until she yelled, "daddy's home, hide in the closet or he'll kill you."
Then again, he could be a firend of the family who knows better than to be there, but came over anyway hoping to get lucky.
Either way, he didn't deserve to be shot and paralyzed for life for doing what every 19 year old male in the country is trying to do........ get some arse.
Statutory rape or whatever the dude was planning on doing in that room is no small matter. Of course the shooting was overkill... I would have just kicked the door in and grabbed his ass, and thrown him out. I get to shoot plenty, but kicking in doors I dont do so much.
A girl I know whose dad is a huge ex-football player opened the door to their house when her first date arrived holding a banana and a knife and told the boy pretty much not to mess around or wack, and chopped the banana in half all while looking the kid right in the eye. thats just classic. His daughter meanwhile was rolling on the floor laughing behind him.
I have 3 comments to your statement mdb...
One I have worked way to hard to get where I am to screw it by dicking around with a minor.
Two as much as I love hot girls, I am more scared of the fact that dad would be there to kick my ass. Because if I was a father it would make my day to throw out some deush who came uninvited into my house, the daughters invitation counts for nothing when she invites you back to the parents house without making the parents aware of it.
Three, I dunno but even at 22 I have the moral fortitude that I would not sneek into her parents house to get some like that. I would not feel right. I would want to meet the parents and show them I am not a scumbag like so many guys are and then with there permission hang out in her room, providing the girl is of age, or if she is not then I won't be doing what I shouldnt be.
I remember when I was 16, 17 and in high school. I was a dumbass. I grew up a lot when I went to college, but the biggest part about this is the guy was a sleezebag and did not meet the parents.
And at 17, the girl isn't either (in many states).
I would want to see more of the facts in this case before I declare the young man a pervert, sh*tbag, or deserving of being shot.
The girl could be hell on wheels for all we know, and might have met this guy at a mall and invited him back to her house. He may have had no reason at all to believe that he wasn't allowed there until she yelled, "daddy's home, hide in the closet or he'll kill you."
Then again, he could be a firend of the family who knows better than to be there, but came over anyway hoping to get lucky.
Either way, he didn't deserve to be shot and paralyzed for life for doing what every 19 year old male in the country is trying to do........ get some arse.
19 and 17 does not constitute statuatory rape. Depending on their DOBs, they could be as little as 13 months apart.
We don't know that he "snuck around" anywhere.
Did he deserve an ass whupping? Sure. i would buy that. Beat him till he can't walk. But shooting him? Nope.
O I def. agree on the shooting part bud! That was obviously way too much.
19 and 17 does not constitute statuatory rape. Depending on their DOBs, they could be as little as 13 months apart.
We don't know that he "snuck around" anywhere.
Did he deserve an ass whupping? Sure. i would buy that. Beat him till he can't walk. But shooting him? Nope.
Team Sergeant
08-20-2007, 10:51
19 and 17 does not constitute statuatory rape.
In this case maybe not, in some states yes it does in fact constitute statutory rape.
Get your facts straight.
TS
Let me clarify one thing... to me sneeking into the parents house is equally as wrong as walking right into it when they are not home or however you find your way into their daughter's room without their prior knowledge. Maybe my etiquette is just out of style. But I think not.
19 and 17 does not constitute statuatory rape. Depending on their DOBs, they could be as little as 13 months apart.
We don't know that he "snuck around" anywhere.
Did he deserve an ass whupping? Sure. i would buy that. Beat him till he can't walk. But shooting him? Nope.
The shooter is a dipshit.. Either he forgot that he was once a teenager with over-active hormones, or he forgot that the lad didn't let himself in. The daughter is just as guilty.
Here's a fact: Kids are gonna get it on - it's a biological function and a fact of life. As a parent you don't have to like it, but you'd better believe that it's gonna happen - it did way back when, it is now, and it will long after all of us have gone to the big GB Club in the sky.
To blast anyone through a wall like he did is just stupid. He's gonna do time for this one - betcha.
:munchin
The Reaper
08-20-2007, 12:53
All those with daughters seem to be on one side here.:D
If you read the article, the dad beat the young man with a pool cue till he used it up, and then went to get the gun.
While I agree that he should not have fired randomly through the door, and he could have hit his daughter as well as the boy, why did the kid stick around till dad went and got the gun? Bar the door, bust a window, and run for it.
The point that the facts are not all here is salient. Judgement at this point would be akin to commenting on the "surface to air missile" that the OPD received, based on the initial reports (yet uncorrected, BTW). I will wait for the rest of the story before pronouncing judgement.
TR
Kyobanim
08-20-2007, 13:05
All those with daughters seem to be on one side here.
LOL, saw that one coming when the thread was posted.
Hey don't come down on my OPD. They can't help what they are.
All those with daughters seem to be on one side here.:D
If you read the article, the dad beat the young man with a pool cue till he used it up, and then went to get the gun.
While I agree that he should not have fired randomly through the door, and he could have hit his daughter as well as the boy, why did the kid stick around till dad went and got the gun? Bar the door, bust a window, and run for it.
The point that the facts are not all here is salient. Judgement at this point would be akin to commenting on the "surface to air missile" that the OPD received, based on the initial reports (yet uncorrected, BTW). I will wait for the rest of the story before pronouncing judgement.
TRI'd claim temporary insanity...:munchin
82ndtrooper
08-20-2007, 13:25
No daughters here. :) Two sons, and their both girl crazy. But, if I catch the youngest hiding in some 17 year old girls closet he's going to be doing flutter kicks with Aqualung Rocket II's till he's busted a gut. Besides, his current little girl friends father is a cop with COLAWMAN. :eek:
And, I do not envy TR and TS one bit. I and you know what that 19 year old wanted and it wasn't her Girl Scout cookies.
Fathers were feared, a GF father was feared even more...
Stay safe.
In this case maybe not, in some states yes it does in fact constitute statutory rape.
Get your facts straight.
TS
Nearly every state in the union (if not every single one) has a "Romeo and Juliet" clause that states that it is not statuatory rape if the victim and offender are within 3 years of one another, regardless of "minor/legal adult" status (this does not take into account children under the age of 13).
Also, the term "minor" when talking about ability to consent to sex is not the same as "minor" in the sense of entering into a contract or being able to enlist. In many states, it is as low as 14, others 16, 17 etc. When state rape laws are talking about "minor" children, they are often referring to the age of consent, and not the age of 18. Sound confusing? It is. :D
Even without the Romeo and Juliet in effect, this still would not have been statuatory rape due to the age of the girl (17). Simply put, 19 year olds are not being arrested for having sex with 17 year olds, or the prison walls would buckle.
No disrespect intended.
The age of consent is 14 in Arkansas (18 if the partner is a first cousin). ;) I think the Dad is a danger to his family and the community, and yes, I have an 18 year-old daughter.
PS -- I once confronted a very attractive girl on the roof of my house tapping on my son's second-story window at 0100 (he's a heavy sleeper). I didn't ask how old she was when I drove her home and handed her over to her parents, but my son was 17 at the time.
There's 17 and then there's 17.
Some more details....
http://nwanews.com/bcdr/News/52443/
As a father of both a boy and a girl I can see both sides of this coin. However, the door would never have been closed in my house. In fact, the door wouldn't even be on the hinges beforehand.
Goes back to IPB and Mission Analysis:
- Always have an exfiltration plan and a disengagement criteria. Getting hit with a pool cue until it's broken and the operator of the pool cue breaks contact temporarily to acquire another suitable counselling device would fall into this catagory. I seem to recall the use of dimensional lumber as another couselling device.
- Don't date a girl who lives on the second floor without a good rope ladder or tree to leave by.
- Don't date a girl who has no windows in her room and only one way out.
- Don't date a girl whose father has a high caliber firearm, a shovel, and the ability to use both of them at any time.
- Don't date a girl whose father is faster than you are in a dead sprint.
- Be cautious of a girl who only gets horny when her father is in the house.
- If you're 19, use common sense and your ability to finance a motel or hotel room as a legal resident of said establishment if you find yourself in violation of any of the above rules.
The shooter is a dipshit.. Either he forgot that he was once a teenager with over-active hormones, or he forgot that the lad didn't let himself in. The daughter is just as guilty.
Here's a fact: Kids are gonna get it on - it's a biological function and a fact of life. As a parent you don't have to like it, but you'd better believe that it's gonna happen - it did way back when, it is now, and it will long after all of us have gone to the big GB Club in the sky.
To blast anyone through a wall like he did is just stupid. He's gonna do time for this one - betcha.
:munchin
Sir, I agree with this 100%! However, my mom (not Dad) raised me and my sis, and I can tell you...She put the fear of God in us, and our dates!:D
(No messing around for us, heck I did not even kiss a boy until I was 16...and nothing else until I was well into my twenties.) :p
And I am glad she did...it was strict, but looking back, it saved a lot of this type of drama.
The daughter is responsible for her part in this. It is a respect of authority issue IMHO.
Just my .02
Holly
Some more details....
http://nwanews.com/bcdr/News/52443/
According to a probablecause affidavit in the case, Guzman and the girl had been dating for the past four months. The girl had told her mother Guzman had been sneaking into the house at night. The two were allowed to continue dating, but Guzman was told not to come to the residence without being chaperoned, the affidavit states.
Guzman came to the home that morning while his girlfriend’s parents were away. He parked his car on a dirt road about a quarter of a mile from the home, and his girlfriend picked him up. They then went back to her home, according to court documents.
I'm not saying; the father was justfied! The young man had been warned.....:munchin
Stay safe.
Roguish Lawyer
08-20-2007, 15:05
PS -- I once confronted a very attractive girl on the roof of my house tapping on my son's second-story window at 0100 (he's a heavy sleeper). I didn't ask how old she was when I drove her home and handed her over to her parents, but my son was 17 at the time.
So does your son still hate you or did you hide the incident from him? ;)
So does your son still hate you or did you hide the incident from him? ;)
His only concern was that I'd apparently embarrassed her by driving her the three blocks to her house. She, and he, thought I should have just let her wander back home.
I don't think it was his last opportunity with the young woman.
Paraplegia is a very steep price to pay.
Paraplegia is a very steep price to pay.Stay safe.
Well the kid's got balls... maybe not for long though!
That is hirlarious btw!
My wife and I raised 3 daughters who were 13 months apart (twins) and I have interviewed every boy that showed up at our home.
I always stressed that I EXPECTED my daughters to act like ladies and the guys had better act like a gentleman. I always made my point that the boys were guests in our home and that we let our daughters go out with them.
I had to deal with a few hard headed young men who had an overflow of hormones.
I found that the point of a KABAR applied just under the chin with just enough pressure to make the young man stand on his tip toes, always got my point across and ensured that he would respect my family and our home.
We live in Mississippi and perhaps I am a little old fashioned but we never had any problems and our daughters are all in college and doing well.
I do agree that the father was stupid for shooting thru a door. Once you send that round down range, you can never take it back.
I found that the point of a KABAR applied just under the chin with just enough pressure to make the young man stand on his tip toes, always got my point across and ensured that he would respect my family and our home.
Man...we live in different worlds. Where I live you'd be up on an assault charge so fast your head would spin. And it would probably stick.
I have "neighbors" who were trying to hang a felony rap on me for driving some inpaired kids home from a party... Two A.M. the daughter gets a call from a girl I've known since she was 5. They're at a graduation party one town over and their DD is seriously inebriated. Their only other way home is with a kid who has also been drinking. Now in my enlightened home state, anyone under the age of 21 who has drinkers in the car is up for a misdemeanor reckless endangerment charge, even if the driver is stone cold sober (smart, eh?). So the daughter and I drive to the party and the daughter drives the girl's car home (alone) while I drop the girls off.
One week later I'm in the asst. attorney general's office dicussing a potential custodial interference charge (a felony, usually brought against a spouse who kidnaps their children post-divorce). She hears my story (which matches the girl's), shakes my hand, thanks me and sends me on my way.
Why didn't I call the kid's parents and have them drive them home? Judgement call. We've had nine kids killed on the roads around here in the last 12 months, three of them who were in the exact same situation as the girls I drove, except in their case no one came when they called around for a ride. I thought they did the right thing and I wasn't about to do anything to stop someone from doing the same in the future.
OK, fire away...my wife thinks I'm an idiot, too.
The Reaper
08-20-2007, 21:39
How bad I would hurt a young man would depend on what he had done to my daughter.
At some level, I believe that it could come close to killing him. Consequences be damned.
He doesn't need to know what that point might be, just that it is a potential consequence of his actions.
TR
My impression are:
1) the article does not give enough information.
That being said, the father had no clue of fire control. Shooting blindly? Lucky he did not send his daughter to Valhalla. Seems the boy, daughter and dad all had something in common, candidates for the Darwin award.
I have a daughter too and I hope that I have raised her to use her head and take care of herself. I doubt a incident like this would happen in my house.
What Dad really needed was 40 acres and a backhoe with an extending reach for greater depth, some lye, and an alibi.... Find that body! :D
JUST KIDDING!!!!
the young man shoulda got an ass whooping, pool cue is excessive, shooting the poor sucker, well under certain circumstances it coulda been a crime of passion no? But yes, that is over the top, after all his daughter (bless her precious heart) was behind the door too. Did this happen in a trailer?:p
Well, it isn't the first time something has happend to Jody while hiding in the closet. This is just another one of them stories that will get passed around so that young men know better then to mess around with some crazy guys daughter. Besides, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree you know?
Yes, sometimes the Dad really does pull out a shotgun.
Hey Mugwump,
I guess we do live in different worlds. My county sheriff is a close friend of my family and he always told me make sure there were no witnesses to my counseling the boyfriends in the right direction.
However, I know you made the right decision concerning picking up those kids at the party. I have done the exact thing myself and the parents thanked me profusely.
Maybe you need to move to the south.
Consequences be damned.
T, You're a smart guy - I'm surprised to see you write that.
There are way too many different scenarios that could lead to way too many outcomes to discuss them in here. If some dipshit did something that resulted in the loss of my daughter's life, limb or eye sight, then the outcome would be signicantly different than if I caught some kid knocking the bottom out of it at 0200.
Hey Mugwump,
I guess we do live in different worlds. ...Maybe you need to move to the south.
I'm working on it. :)
The issue with the ride was that I was supposed to call the parents the next day. I can see their point, but it was an exercise in situational ethics. They could have driven their car as drunk as they were, and probably would have the next time if I'd snitched.
Did he deserve an ass whupping? Sure. i would buy that. Beat him till he can't walk. But shooting him? Nope.
I wouldn't even go that far (and me, the old-timer, from Appalachia).
Please let me rephrase the story.
Teenage girl lets/allows/permits teenage boy to enter residence. Father beats and shoots teenage boy.
About the same as his shooting someone he didn't care for that his wife let in, isn't it?
If that teenage boy had been actually having sex then it would have been "they" who were having sex. The idea that, when a couple has sex, the male was doing something wrong to the female is nonsense. That's the old myth.
If he had beaten them both, I'd say he was an idiot, but punishing two people for both doing something he had forbidden.
As a father of three sons, that man would be lucky if he made it to trial.
And, when I turned 18, my high-school sweetheart was still 17.
Perspectives...................
The Reaper
08-22-2007, 09:16
T, You're a smart guy - I'm surprised to see you write that.
There are way too many different scenarios that could lead to way too many outcomes to discuss them in here. If some dipshit did something that resulted in the loss of my daughter's life, limb or eye sight, then the outcome would be signicantly different than if I caught some kid knocking the bottom out of it at 0200.
My point exactly.
You seriously injure one of my kids intentionally, some significant consequences are going to happen in return.
Again, all of the facts are unknown at this point. But if a study date turned into a sexual assault, then the ass-whipping might make sense. Especially since the young man was over 18. If it was consensual, even that was probably uncalled for. As already noted, shooting through a door with one of his own kids inside is stupid and unjustifiable.
TR
I have always believed that preemptive counseling was the best way to handle teenagers. Raising hell after the fact may do some good, but teaching respect for yourself and your family and putting fear into the boyfriends, those who need it, is the best way to handle teenage problems before they happen.
I feel that the value of human life has seriously eroded over the years and people let their emotions govern their actions.
I would do harm to someone who has killed or raped my child or wife, but at the right time and the right place and would never place my family in harms way while extracting vengance or justice, howver you wish to define it.
FearMonkey
08-22-2007, 18:57
All I know is that the girl can officially say goodbye to her dating life.
All I know is that the girl can officially say goodbye to her dating life.
Either that or it's just getting warmed up with daddy in the slammer.
A career in the adult entertainment industry, perhaps, just to show daddy who's boss?
I wouldn't even go that far (and me, the old-timer, from Appalachia).
I'm comfortable going that far. :D One thing that we do know from the articles is that the young man was not allowed inside the home without a chaperone. Regardless of whether the daughter invited him in or not, he knew it wasn't his house and that he wasn't welcome by the owner.
Disrespect the rules of my home, enter without my permission, and you are definately the proud owner of an ass whuppin'.
The next step would be to enroll my daughter in a convent.
In Arkansas it is not illegal for a 19 year old to have sex with a 17 year old as the age of consent is 16. Contrary to popular belief, the age of consent is 18 in only 12 states.
I think I'll end up purchasing a taser, if I have daughters one day.
Still have the satisfaction of a trigger pull, but it won't kill.... plus watching him try to low crawl out of the house, while missing time hacks and "getting the hose again" will make it fun.
LLoE, alaska's a big state and there's an awful lot of places to deposit a body which will never end up being recovered. Friends with aircraft make this easier.
Firing blind into your own daughter's room is just idiotic. Regardless of the door being blocked. he'll have to come out sometime, and it would have been much easier to press tresspassing before even breaking out the beat-stick.
FearMonkey
08-22-2007, 22:29
I think I'll end up purchasing a taser, if I have daughters one day.
Still have the satisfaction of a trigger pull, but it won't kill.... plus watching him try to low crawl out of the house, while missing time hacks and "getting the hose again" will make it fun.
Now, that's the best idea I've heard yet. That's just got fun for the whole family written all over it! :D
And chicks dig older guys. I have known of alot of girls 16/17/18 who are dating guys already out of high school, and even those who are in their twenties.
And chicks dig older guys. I have known of alot of girls 16/17/18 who are dating guys already out of high school, and even those who are in their twenties.
That's not even the half of it. I went to many a parties during my one year of college (before the Army) and you HAD to id the girl you were talking with. There were countless times that you'd find high school girls at these parties. Heck I knew a few that would come to the barracks when I was in the Army that would try to crash our parties...
Smokin Joe
08-23-2007, 01:35
Paraplegia is a very steep price to pay.
I completely agree. (Based on the little info we have) This seems like way to steep of a price.
I'm also with TR on the issue of "if you hurt my kid, you WILL hurt in return"
Also just to through a wrench in the works. In Arizona Deadly force is justified in stopping the commission of a sexual assault.
Now beating the kid with a stick until there is no more stick, THEN getting your gun is a bit different.
Something no one has thought of....what if he was trying to kill his daughter along with the boyfriend, when he shot through the door. One of those guy's who think's his daughter is ruined because she had sex.
Not likely, but there are people out there like that.
Tasers are scary, my brother got a good one and that big blue spark scares the crap out of people. There are legal ramifications though even for tasers... when my bro got it he researched them. Forget what they all were now.
My last day at work this summer as a waiter around the pool at a hotel I started chatting with this gorgeous girl and her family. Looked 19/20. Turned out she was 16. YIKES.
I think I'll end up purchasing a taser, if I have daughters one day.
Still have the satisfaction of a trigger pull, but it won't kill.... plus watching him try to low crawl out of the house, while missing time hacks and "getting the hose again" will make it fun.
LLoE, alaska's a big state and there's an awful lot of places to deposit a body which will never end up being recovered. Friends with aircraft make this easier.
Firing blind into your own daughter's room is just idiotic. Regardless of the door being blocked. he'll have to come out sometime, and it would have been much easier to press tresspassing before even breaking out the beat-stick.
Something no one has thought of....what if he was trying to kill his daughter along with the boyfriend, when he shot through the door. One of those guy's who think's his daughter is ruined because she had sex.
Not likely, but there are people out there like that.
...or she had sex with a boy named Guzman.
Defender968
08-23-2007, 17:06
My father had a great way to counsel my sister’s young suitors. Keep in mind he's 6'3 220 bald and a little scary to begin with. When my sister’s date would come over my mother would escort him into the family room where my father was cleaning his shotgun while eating jalapenos out of the jar. The jalapenos always made his bald head turn red and sweat. He would talk in a very low tone where you could just barely hear him, and he'd ask what time they were planning on having my sister home. The answer usually ended up something similar to "anytime you'd like her home sir!" Short sweet and very legal like, no overt threats, but the message was understood and he couldn't be accused of anything, accept for having a clean weapon!
Smokin Joe
08-23-2007, 21:21
Tasers are scary, my brother got a good one and that big blue spark scares the crap out of people. There are legal ramifications though even for tasers... when my bro got it he researched them. Forget what they all were now.
My last day at work this summer as a waiter around the pool at a hotel I started chatting with this gorgeous girl and her family. Looked 19/20. Turned out she was 16. YIKES.
I've been Tasered 6 times (in training environments) but I can testify... they really are fun for the entire family. :p
A little juice is nothing compared to a bullet.
GratefulCitizen
08-23-2007, 21:58
After reading this, and thinking about it, I'll state an opinion.
The father committed a selfish act.
He was more concerned about his own emotions than the well-being of his family.
It may well be that he did everything right and his daugher insisted on making poor choices.
Given his actions, it seems unlikely, but it is still possible.
He had every right to feel angry (very angry).
Strong emotion does not license any action.
His lack of self-control resulted in the unnecessary maiming of another human being.
It will result in severe long-term problems for his daughter (whom he was supposedly protecting).
It will result in hardships for his family because of his absence due to incarceration.
The word that matters here is responsibility.
Even if he did everything right for the previous 17 years, even if he is under severe emotional stress, he is still responsible to make the right decision.
This is a tragedy for all involved.