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View Full Version : So this is the cause of ammo shortages...


MAB32
08-17-2007, 19:00
I guess this tells it all.:munchin

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293657,00.html

82ndtrooper
08-17-2007, 21:21
IMHO there is some truth and some not in the particular article.

First: The price of metals over the last 5 years have skyrocketed. Think steel and brass for casings and primers, copper jacketing etc.

As for powders, I haven't a clue since I do not reload rifle ammunition. I would agree that qaulity powders and flash suppressants are being shipped with a priority to the military manufacturers such as Lake City and Black Hills. Hence the wait time from Black Hills for civillian orders.

While the wars in Iraq and Afghan may have an economic impact I have found no real shortage in commercial ammuniton for both pistol and rifle ammunition. Although there has been a slight increase in price. I used to purchase WWB value packs (100 rounds) for$19.25. Now it is $21.95 for 9mmx19 Luger/Para.

As for training issues. I would have to say that quality training does not necessarily equate to throwing thousands of rounds down range just for the purpose of throwing rounds. With appropriate training methods one can increase his proficiency without the need to heat up his or her barrel to a melting point. Dry firing should be 70% of ones train up and 30% live fire.

Just my .02

Pete
08-17-2007, 22:02
I seem to find plenty of ammo around here. Sure it's more expensive than a few years ago. Some of the military brands are hard to find. Battle packs are a bit short but....

Most of the fliers I get in the mail as well as the Shotgun News has a number of sources selling 5.56/.223 by the case or 20 round box.

I've never seen a gun show in Fayetteville where they didn't have bunches of dealers selling many different kinds of ammo.

Still - not as cheap as it was a few years back.

Import laws has a lot to do with it.

Pete

Still working my way through some middle eastern 8mm Mauser I got years back.

HOLLiS
08-17-2007, 23:16
Also people are stock piling it/hoarding, not just heavy shooters. Sort of like the primer shortage a number of years ago.

82ndtrooper
08-18-2007, 00:48
Also people are stock piling it/hoarding, not just heavy shooters. Sort of like the primer shortage a number of years ago.


I suppose I'm guilty as charged on this account.

Over the past two years I've taken advantage of almost every bulk purchase discount that Cheaper Than Dirt and CDNN has offered through email notices. Some have stated that these retailers only offer what is not necessarily top lot ammunition. I've found nothing with any of their ammunition that would lead me to believe this.

9mm Luger, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and .223 being the culprits of my attention. I've counted about 3,000 various rounds of 9mm Luger ranging from Federal American Eagle to Hydrashock and even Ranger SXT +p+ and +P Also about 1,000 rounds of Remington Golden Sabre in both 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. All varying load weights. Including a bulk purchase of Corbon DPX for the 9mm Luger Sig P228 that I carry.

If there is in fact a shortage and not just a price increase based on rumors of a possible shortage then I haven't seen any evidence that leads me to believe that I need to stockpile anymore in the near future. Most, if not all commercial manufactured ammunition is available somwhere on the net.

As for PD's not having a steady supply I cannot comment as I'm not in the business and do not have any knowledge in this area. Interesting enough though is the fact that almost all of the officers in my city PD are not willing to purchase any ammunition on their own. Personally I find this puzzling since it's available and they too can attend the local indoor range that I an my peers do or their own range for furthering their skill set. I suppose one mans priority is not necessarily anothers. Point being, that if I can purchase and shoot weekly on my own dime then I'd expect them to also.

HOLLiS
08-18-2007, 09:42
82nd, A lot of people I know who shoot on a regular bases have stocked pile not just ammo but reloading components.

I also think HB1022 ( the evil son of the Brady bill) also stimulated hoarding and buying a few extra firearms and accessories.
It all adds up.

H.

The Reaper
08-18-2007, 10:00
Do not forget the fact that the stocks of surplus military calibers has dried up as well.

Two years ago, sealed packs of 7.62x51 NATO could be had for as little as 12 cents per round.

Now, if you can find it at all, it is 40 cents per round or more.

Another issue for military calibers was the closing of Talon, who tore down military ammo for components, and reloaded quite a bit of it. 7.62 and .50 BMG are almost impossible to find now. Last .50 API I bought was $1.25 per round. Now it is $4.00 per round or more.

Ammoman, ammunitionstore, and the usual vendors have been out of .308/7.62 and .50 for months. .223/5.56 has been spotty, but is still out there. I have seen no shortage of sporting or defense ammo, but the price has gone through the roof.

TR

MAB32
08-18-2007, 10:36
I personnaly talked to the owner of the Ammunition Store around late late summer of last year. I asked him why he didn't have any more South African .308 or anything in that caliber. His response was that in middle of Summer some Fed guys came in and bought every single round of .308 in the place, then made him a deal on the incoming palletes that were set to arrive later. I asked him if he new from agency they represented? He said FBI. I guess they may be a little behind on their stockpiling too. Now I thought that the FBI could get theirs directly from the Lake City plant. Yes, no, maybe?

82ndtrooper
08-18-2007, 15:13
82nd, A lot of people I know who shoot on a regular bases have stocked pile not just ammo but reloading components.

I also think HB1022 ( the evil son of the Brady bill) also stimulated hoarding and buying a few extra firearms and accessories.
It all adds up.

H.

I agree, and I'm guilty as charged on this count as well.

The day after the Virginia Tech shooting I was on the net ordering high cap mags (Standard capacity) for a couple of my pistols. CDNN and Cheaper than Dirt had just about any pistol mag in stock the day after the shootings. Two day's after the shooting both CTD and CDNN were completley out of stock of most high cap mags. It did not take long for the media to start to concentrate on the 15 round mags that Cho Sueng Hui used in his Glock. :rolleyes:

I have no doubt that sales of AR15's with telescopic stocks and short barrels went up shortly after rumors of HR1022 hit the net and airwaves. Those people that were putting off the purchase of rifles such an semi auto AK or FAL or AR15 have them now in their possession.

Yes, supply and demand is in place.

By the way, LMT is supposedly unleashing a short stroke gas piston system upper this month. I haven't seen anything on the site yet.

Buffalobob
09-11-2007, 21:00
Fed 210 GMs primers have been just about impossible to get for about a year now. The general word is that the military has figured out that it helps to have accurate bullets in accurate guns and is procureing both as fast as possible. If you try to order a stock or a barrel from one of the military suppliers such as MacMillian you will find the wait to be measured in months not weeks as it once was.

5POINT56
09-18-2007, 14:38
And this is the reason why I have 8,500 rounds of NATO 5.56 that is sitting in reserve. A case of decent 5.56 is over $400 now.

I still pick up single boxes of Hornady TAP whenever I can and throw it on the pile.

The range stuff is just PMC or something similar from Bass Pro Shops.

kgoerz
09-18-2007, 19:18
I agree, and I'm guilty as charged on this count as well.

The day after the Virginia Tech shooting I was on the net ordering high cap mags (Standard capacity) for a couple of my pistols. CDNN and Cheaper than Dirt had just about any pistol mag in stock the day after the shootings. Two day's after the shooting both CTD and CDNN were completley out of stock of most high cap mags. It did not take long for the media to start to concentrate on the 15 round mags that Cho Sueng Hui used in his Glock. :rolleyes:

I have no doubt that sales of AR15's with telescopic stocks and short barrels went up shortly after rumors of HR1022 hit the net and airwaves. Those people that were putting off the purchase of rifles such an semi auto AK or FAL or AR15 have them now in their possession.

Yes, supply and demand is in place.

By the way, LMT is supposedly unleashing a short stroke gas piston system upper this month. I haven't seen anything on the site yet.


Now is the time to stockpile, before the next mass Shooting, not after. Earlier this year I stock piled a few Assault Weapons, Uppers, Lower receivers, threaded Barrels and ordered a couple of weapons. Weapons I planned on ordering in the next two years. GTG on Ammo:D
Stockpiling is a good word to use, not panic buying. The people who wait will be the ones panicking. Here are the possibilities I think about when buying.

1. We elect a Democrat. Both of the front runners are anti Gun.
2. Because of the War. Gun Control isn't the hot topic it once was. Last couple of debates it wasn't even brought up. Don't expect Democrats to bring it up either. Hell, don't expect most of the Republicans to either. Giuliano is for Gun control if anyone is confused. The City he was Mayor of outlawed Guns. How much more proof do people need.
3. All the Republican candidates will pander to the left except maybe one.
4. Dem's ruling the House/Senate.
5. Even if they don't it will still be close.
6. The very strong possibility that in 2008 there will be another VT type mass Shooting.
7. The possibility of a mass Shooting carried out by Terrorist. They won't bother to bring their own Weapons when they can just steal them or buy them here. They didn't bring their own Airplanes on 911. They took advantage of our freedom and rights before.
Now throw an Assault Weapon into this Mix. Doesn't matter if it's Terrorist or some nut job. The picture of the Police holding up Cho's Glocks in plastic Bags is still stuck in my head. But I imagine an Assault Weapon. If they happen to obtained these Assault Weapons legally, BU BY Black Rifles.

Lanyard
09-19-2007, 15:36
A site for 7.62 ammo, very similar to the ARF.com site for 5.56.

http://www.rifle-company.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=431

brianksain
04-10-2009, 17:40
Also people are stock piling it/hoarding, not just heavy shooters. Sort of like the primer shortage a number of years ago.

Those on the outside cannot fathom the understatement of this post.

Brian K. Sain, COO
Black Hills Ammunition

The Reaper
04-10-2009, 19:42
Those on the outside cannot fathom the understatement of this post.

Brian K. Sain, COO
Black Hills Ammunition

Well, they had 18 months to gather momentum.:D

TR

tom kelly
04-10-2009, 20:43
Ironic that most of the raw materials for the manufacture of ammunition are produced right here in the USA, However, there is no shortage of Heroin & Cocaine which are not native to the USA but probably kill more people than bullets! Also, that one more drink for the drunk driver is not in short supply either. Wonder how many fatalities are alchol related? Guess what anti-gun political family has a vested interest in the Scotch import business?...Regard's, tom kelly.

incarcerated
05-20-2009, 19:52
More stockpiling ammunition: Fear of potential Obama laws causing mass sales

By PERRY BACKUS Ravalli Republic
FLORENCE - Every day, Darren Newsom's three Bitterroot Valley Ammunition facilities crank out 300,000 rounds of ammunition.

It's not nearly enough.

“I'm going about 100,000 rounds in the wrong direction every day,” Newsom said. “We probably have about six months of back orders right now.”

Newsom has been in the ammunition manufacturing business for more than 20 years and he's never seen demand this high.

Fearful of the Obama administration's potential to tighten gun control laws, people from all over the country are stocking up on guns and ammunition.

“I went through the Clinton years and there was a bit of a scare then,” Newsom said. “This is like the Clinton years on steroids. ? On the day of the election, our phones started going nuts. It hasn't stopped since.”

As a master distributor for ATK - the world's largest ammunition business - Bitterroot Valley Ammunition supplies other ammunition manufacturers around the country with the components needed to make bullets.

“I get a million primers in every other day and most are shipped out the very next day,” he said. “I have 100 million primers on back order right now. We just can't get enough of them.”

At a recent gun show in Salt Lake City, Newsom sold somewhere between 300,000 and 400,000 rounds in the first two hours....

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2009/05/20/news/local/news02.txt