PDA

View Full Version : Jordan


lrd
04-27-2004, 05:08
Jordan says major al Qaeda plot disrupted
Authorities: Chemical cloud would have been released in Amman

Monday, April 26, 2004 Posted: 3:54 PM EDT (1954 GMT)

AMMAN, Jordan (CNN) -- Jordanian authorities said Monday they have broken up an alleged al Qaeda plot that would have unleashed a deadly cloud of chemicals in the heart of Jordan's capital, Amman.

The plot would have been more deadly than anything al Qaeda has done before, including the September 11 attacks, according to the Jordanian government.

Among the alleged targets were the U.S. Embassy, the Jordanian prime minister's office and the headquarters of Jordanian intelligence.

U.S. intelligence officials expressed caution about whether the chemicals captured by Jordanian authorities were intended to create a "toxic cloud" chemical weapon, but they said the large quantities involved were at a minimum intended to create "massive explosions."

Officials said there is debate within the CIA and other U.S. agencies over whether the plotters were planning to kill innocent people using toxic chemicals.

At issue is the presence of a large quantity of sulfuric acid among the tons of chemicals seized by Jordanian authorities. Sulfuric acid can be used as a blister agent, but it more commonly can increase the size of conventional explosions, according to U.S. officials.

Nevertheless, U.S. intelligence officials called the capture of tons of chemicals that together could create several large conventional explosions "a big deal."

The plot was within days of being carried out, Jordanian officials said, when security forces broke it up April 20.

In a nighttime raid in Amman, Jordanian security forces moved in on the terrorist cell. After the shooting stopped, four men were dead. Jordanian authorities said. They said at least three others were arrested, including Azmi Jayyousi, the cell's suspected ringleader, whom Jordanian intelligence alleges was responsible for planning and recruiting.

On a confession shown on state-run Jordanian television, Jayyousi said he took orders from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a suspected terrorist leader who has been linked to al Qaeda and whom U.S. officials have said is behind some attacks in Iraq.

"I took explosives courses, poisons high level, then I pledged allegiance to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, to obey him without any questioning," Jayyousi said.

Jordanian intelligence suspects Jayyousi returned from Iraq in January after a meeting with al-Zarqawi in which they allegedly plotted to hit the three targets in Amman.

In a series of raids, the Jordanians said, they seized 20 tons of chemicals and numerous explosives. Also seized were three trucks equipped with specially modified plows, apparently designed to crash through security barricades.

The first alleged target was the Jordanian intelligence headquarters. The alleged blast was intended to be a big one.

"According to my experience as an explosives expert, the whole of the Intelligence Department will be destroyed, and nothing of it will remain, nor anything surrounding it," Jayyousi said.

Details of the alleged plot were shown Monday on Jordanian television, including graphics of how the cell apparently intended to carry out the attack.

In an videotape shown on Jordanian TV, Hussein Sharif said Jayyousi recruited him as a suicide bomber.

"The aim, Azmi told me, was to execute an operation to strike Jordan and the Hashemite Royal family, a war against the crusaders and infidels," Sharif said. "Azmi told me that this will be the first chemical attack that al Qaeda will execute."

Jordanian authorities said the attack would have mixed a combination of 71 lethal chemicals, which they said has never been done before, including blistering agents to cause third-degree burns, nerve gas and choking agents.

A Jordanian government scientist said the plot had been carefully worked out, with just the right amount of explosives to spread the deadly cloud without diminishing the effects of the chemicals. The blast would not burn up the poisonous chemicals but instead produce a toxic cloud, the scientist said, possibly spreading for a mile, maybe more.

The Jordanian intelligence buildings are within a mile of a large medical center, a shopping mall and a residential area.

"And there is no one combination of antidote to treat nerve agent, choking agent and blistering agent," the scientist said.

Al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian, has been accused of plotting chemical attacks before, and authorities said it would not be his first attempt to strike Jordan.

In 2000, a Jordanian court charged him in absentia with planning to blow up a hotel and attack tourist destinations.

U.S. officials have said he was behind the 2002 assassination of American diplomat Lawrence Foley, who was gunned down outside his home in Amman.

According to the televised confessions, $170,000 came from Zarqawi via messengers from Syria.

In last week's raid, Jordanian forces seized cash, bomb-making equipment and weapons, investigators said.

CNN was not allowed access to any of those arrested. But the videotaped confessions offer a rare glimpse inside an alleged terrorist operation.

The Jordanian government said the videotapes were made with the full cooperation of the suspects and their attorneys.

CNN's John Vause, Henry Schuster and David Ensor contributed to this report.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/26/jordan.terror/index.html

Roguish Lawyer
04-27-2004, 06:52
Is it in our long-term strategic interest for al Qaeda to be attacking muslims?

Will doing this help achieve al Qaeda's goals or will it backfire?

Are there lessons to be learned from the VC?

Roguish Lawyer
04-27-2004, 14:58
No one wants to discuss this?

Jimbo
04-27-2004, 17:20
You have the patience of a house-fly.

If AQ kills more Muslims, that is good for us.

Roguish Lawyer
04-27-2004, 17:48
Originally posted by Jimbo
You have the patience of a house-fly.

Should I be nervous that you know me so well? LOL

My instincts agree with you. Anyone else? :munchin

Ambush Master
04-27-2004, 18:10
Originally posted by Jimbo

If AQ kills more Muslims, that is good for us.

Except that they are attempting to "Teach those that align themselves with us a lesson". If they succeed, the result will not be good. With the kind of Op that went down, that helps us. It's far easier to maintain aliances when there is Anger and Fear, than when you are dealing with Grief and Fear.

my .02

The Reaper
04-27-2004, 18:31
Concur.

They won few hearts and minds with that one, and a G without popular support is like a fish out of the water.

This war will be won or lost by intel, mostly low level collection. This attack helps our cause by alienating the populace to their cause.

TR

Jimbo
04-27-2004, 18:52
I once heard someone who should know say that AQ's attacks in Saudi were a strategic miscaluclation on their part. Let's hope for more of those.

danjam
04-28-2004, 00:01
Jordan is ruled by a minority (beduin), pro western royal family.
Most of Jordan's population is Palestinian. The attempted attacks like Ambush Master and Reaper said would show that AQ are strong and willing to take on the heads of state. Like they are doing in SA and now Syria. AQ have an agenda, and they are doing a pretty good job of it.
The arab version of communism, in that the Islamic extremists are selling their version of Islam/Anti establishment to the poor/uneducated masses. Although there are quite alot of not so poor in their ranks. Like I said, it reminds me of communism.

The attacks are a bad sign of the strength of the enemy.

Roguish Lawyer
04-28-2004, 08:39
The VC used the same approach. It worked for them, or did it?

How does this issue intersect with our response to the Fallujah atrocities? Should we be concerned that AQ is more feared by the locals than we are?

Ambush Master
04-28-2004, 09:23
Originally posted by danjam
Jordan is ruled by a minority (beduin), pro western royal family.
Most of Jordan's population is Palestinian. The attempted attacks like Ambush Master and Reaper said would show that AQ are strong and willing to take on the heads of state. Like they are doing in SA and now Syria. AQ have an agenda, and they are doing a pretty good job of it.
The arab version of communism, in that the Islamic extremists are selling their version of Islam/Anti establishment to the poor/uneducated masses. Although there are quite alot of not so poor in their ranks. Like I said, it reminds me of communism.

The attacks are a bad sign of the strength of the enemy.

Or a good sign, that they are Desperate?!?!

Jimbo
04-28-2004, 09:50
or they have overestimated the number of people that support them.

danjam
04-29-2004, 01:50
These people believe in what they are doing. Desperation I don't think factors into their belief system. All is the will of their god. Having said that, I take in mind that the leadership might be thinking something in more logical terms than that of the sheep that follow them.

Overestimating, well, here I would remember that arabs tend to go for the strong guy. A local example, Israel got out of Lebanon, this act in the arab world is considered weakness, and we haven't stop paying for it yet. The tactics used by Hamas and their kind are learned from Hizbollah, and like Hizbollah said would happen, armed resistance will work. And yes, now there is talk of getting out of Gaza. From their perspective we are weak. It does not matter the body count being in our favour. Arabs think in very long term, they are quite patient. We (west) tend to think in short term achievments, (to achieve a goal) and I don't say we are wrong, it is just we also need to understand how they think.

My understanding is, that US forces should kick the shit out of Falujah. I mean go in hard, and kill as many terrorist/fighters as possible, get Sadr and put him on trial. Talking only enhances Sadr's legitimacy, and already the guy is very powerful (the whole world knows him).

We should (as I understand) go into Gaza and do the same thing. I know we do in a limited way, however Israel, although not liked in the world, still has a western concious and this limits our actions. I know what our military is capable of.

Life has a different value/meaning in different parts of the world. I think RL hit a note, when he mentioned the VC. There the communists were able to field 300,000 new soldiers each year (If I am not mistaken) and here to AQ and the like can field large numbers of willing fighters. They are the strong man, and not us, because we don't live with them, they do, we are just visiting, so to speak.

sorry for the ramble...

brownapple
04-29-2004, 06:41
Originally posted by danjam
These people believe in what they are doing. Desperation I don't think factors into their belief system. All is the will of their god. Having said that, I take in mind that the leadership might be thinking something in more logical terms than that of the sheep that follow them.

That doesn't match up with their offer of a truce to Europe.

I think one item that everyone has missed here is the reaction of the King. This is not someone to piss off (as the Palestinians learned a few years ago) and Al Queda has just pissed him off. I'd say we have just gained an ally, whether declared or not.

Solid
04-29-2004, 06:59
Greenhat- Do you think that AQ miscalculated, or that they anticipated the King's likely reaction?

Thank you,

Solid

danjam
04-29-2004, 07:02
Jordan was and as long as the royal family rule Jordan will be an ally to the west. The last king of Jordan was married to an american arab woman. Their (royal) culture is very western.

Remember the the king' s wife is Palestinian, and most probably done in order to pasify the majority of the population who are Palestinian.

Jordanian soldiers work very closely with us on the border, for the vast majority of the time. Remember Syria, who had a long internal war with the Muslim brotherhood, and they too struck hard against them. Egypt had/has the same problem.

As for the offer for a truce. I find it very hard that people took that seriously. Remember this type of offer is "valid" according to their religious teachings, in order to gain the upper hand..."hudna" comes to mind.


I would like to add, that AQ do not want an ally they want to get rid of the royal family, as they do in SA and any other regime that is not ...Islamic extreme.

Try this link http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/hashemites.html
Look at the family tree.

brownapple
04-29-2004, 07:07
Originally posted by Solid
Greenhat- Do you think that AQ miscalculated, or that they anticipated the King's likely reaction?

Thank you,

Solid

I think it would be very difficult to miscalculate what the King of Jordans reaction would be. He has a history (or at least his father did). I think they figured he'd be dead.

Roguish Lawyer
04-29-2004, 08:31
Originally posted by danjam
sorry for the ramble...

Hardly! Good points, danjam. Glad to have you here.

Roguish Lawyer
04-29-2004, 08:33
Originally posted by Greenhat
I'd say we have just gained an ally, whether declared or not.

Well this raises an interesting question, same one we discussed re: Saudi Arabia. Wasn't Jordan already our friend? I suspect the answer is complicated and dependent on how you define "Jordan."

Airbornelawyer
04-29-2004, 09:55
Originally posted by danjam
As for the offer for a truce. I find it very hard that people took that seriously. Remember this type of offer is "valid" according to their religious teachings, in order to gain the upper hand..."hudna" comes to mind. I've said it before but I'll note it again. It was not a "truce" offer. It was a demand for unconditional surrender. "We will not attack you if you remove all your troops from Muslim countries and stop interfering in the affairs of Muslims" is functionally no different from "We will attack you unless you remove all your troops from Muslim countries and stop interfering in the affairs of Muslims."

This is not limited to Iraq. It is not limited to Afghanistan. It is not limited to anti-terrorism efforts. It is categorical.

And for those thinking "fuck 'em, let's just pull up the stakes and leave them in their medieval cesspool," it isn't even limited to the dar al-islam. France's attempts to enforce secularism by banning the hijab is just as much an "interference in the affairs of Muslims" as French SOF searching for al-Qa'ida along the Afghan-Pak border from their FOB in Spin Boldak. The most virulent anti-British Muslim activism comes not in former British colonies in the Muslim world, but in Muslim enclaves in Britain itself. And there are parts of Amsterdam where non-Muslims, including the Dutch police, fear to tread.

Jimbo
04-29-2004, 10:38
Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
from their FOB in Spin Boldak.
So that's where they are.

pulque
05-03-2004, 00:02
Jordanian Queen Joins Protest Against Terrorism

"Queen Rania joined at least 20,000 Jordanians in a street protest Thursday against a failed plot by an al-Qaida-linked terror cell to launch attacks in the capital, Amman, that officials say would have killed tens of thousands.

The queen, wearing a white and orange shirt and blue jeans, held hands with students during the two mile march that ended at the parliament building.

The protest was the largest in recent history and attracted tribal leaders, businessmen, political activists, Muslim and Christian clerics and students from across the kingdom. . ."

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2857076