View Full Version : Hood or balaclava for Urban/CQB?
This is an equipment-related question, but not a "tip" or recommendation, so I did not post it in the Kit Tips section. Let me know if this is the wrong forum for this type of question.
I've noticed on pictures/videos of SF soldiers training or doing demonstrations of raids/CQB work, it's very rare to see them wear a facial hood, or what is called a balaclava, to conceal their faces.
This is interesting since most other special operations units, and even many police SWAT teams seem to always use them for raids and CQB. In Europe, for example, the 'intervention groups' like the GIS or GIGN, for example, throw these on at all times for PERSEC and intimidation reasons.
I'm curious to know whether SF soldiers also use them for some operations or whether it is not a common practice in SF. If not, why is it so, since it is an easy way to protect the identity of operators and also can have an effect on the enemy?
Best,
jdoval
Team Sergeant
08-05-2007, 19:37
This is an equipment-related question, but not a "tip" or recommendation, so I did not post it in the Kit Tips section. Let me know if this is the wrong forum for this type of question.
I've noticed on pictures/videos of SF soldiers training or doing demonstrations of raids/CQB work, it's very rare to see them wear a facial hood, or what is called a balaclava, to conceal their faces.
This is interesting since most other special operations units, and even many police SWAT teams seem to always use them for raids and CQB. In Europe, for example, the 'intervention groups' like the GIS or GIGN, for example, throw these on at all times for PERSEC and intimidation reasons.
I'm curious to know whether SF soldiers also use them for some operations or whether it is not a common practice in SF. If not, why is it so, since it is an easy way to protect the identity of operators and also can have an effect on the enemy?
Best,
jdoval
In Europe, for example, the 'intervention groups' like the GIS or GIGN, for example, throw these
on at all times for PERSEC and intimidation reasons.
And its working right? :rolleyes:
I'm betting European swat may have seen too many hollywood movies.
Doesn't really matter if the terrorist is dead on the floor now does it........
We don't need no stinking masks.;)
TS
The Reaper
08-05-2007, 19:40
This is an equipment-related question, but not a "tip" or recommendation, so I did not post it in the Kit Tips section. Let me know if this is the wrong forum for this type of question.
I've noticed on pictures/videos of SF soldiers training or doing demonstrations of raids/CQB work, it's very rare to see them wear a facial hood, or what is called a balaclava, to conceal their faces.
This is interesting since most other special operations units, and even many police SWAT teams seem to always use them for raids and CQB. In Europe, for example, the 'intervention groups' like the GIS or GIGN, for example, throw these on at all times for PERSEC and intimidation reasons.
I'm curious to know whether SF soldiers also use them for some operations or whether it is not a common practice in SF. If not, why is it so, since it is an easy way to protect the identity of operators and also can have an effect on the enemy?
Best,
jdoval
I'm wondering what the difference is to you?
TR
Just to throw something in on this, the majority of the SWAT teams down here in South Florida are not full time teams. They're pulled from all the other 'units' within the department. A friend of mine is on a SWAT team and is also a Narcotics detective. He wears a full face cover when doing SWAT raids to maintain his cover.
Perhaps this is why you see a lot of SWAT guys doing this... or they're just trying to look cool :cool:
Peregrino
08-05-2007, 20:24
They're all secret squirrels. :rolleyes: Use some common sense. There are any number of reasons to wear balaclavas, all of them mission/threat specific. We had them available for playing in environments with a real risk of flash fires. As a soldier concealment of my identity was not a big concern. LEOs face different threats. Many of them have legitimate reasons to want to protect their identity. If you can't live without one, I recommend nomex. Fires tend to cause the polypro "Ranger Joe" specials to turn into shrink wrap. (The medics love that.) Peregrino
The Reaper
08-05-2007, 20:26
They're all secret squirrels. :rolleyes: Use some common sense. There are any number of reasons to wear balaclavas, all of them mission/threat specific. We had them available for playing in environments with a real risk of flash fires. As a soldier concealment of my identity was not a big concern. LEOs face different threats. Many of them have legitimate reasons to want to protect their identity. If you can't live without one, I recommend nomex. Fires tend to cause the polypro "Ranger Joe" specials to turn into shrink wrap. (The medics love that.) Peregrino
Why do you think an 18 y/o "security officer" needs one anyway?
TR
They're all secret squirrels. :rolleyes: Use some common sense. There are any number of reasons to wear balaclavas, all of them mission/threat specific. We had them available for playing in environments with a real risk of flash fires. As a soldier concealment of my identity was not a big concern. LEOs face different threats. Many of them have legitimate reasons to want to protect their identity. If you can't live without one, I recommend nomex. Fires tend to cause the polypro "Ranger Joe" specials to turn into shrink wrap. (The medics love that.) Peregrino
I've always been partial to the Ronald Reagan mask myself....:D
They're all secret squirrels. :rolleyes:.......... Peregrino
Hey Now!!!!! I don't ever wear a hood, or balaclava.....I work in 1st Bn, 3rd Grp....My guys in the 2 shop wear gimp masks. :D
Yeah.... we're freaks!
brianksain
08-05-2007, 20:39
My comments mirror Peregrinos.
The fire danger is often present with the labs (meth), explosive entry, pyro, etc. common to the job. Nomex is the way to go ... just like the firefighters and NASCAR folk.
Shrink rap! ... ha ha ha ... lol So true!
Narcs need to remain anonymous ...
But me ... I WANT 'em to see who is grinning over an EOTech at them with a boot on their neck.
Hell ... when you have a police car sitting in the driveway ... anonymity is not big on the importance list. :rolleyes:
I'm wondering what the difference is to you?
TR
No difference, just a matter of curiosity. I'm always interested in the work methods of different units, why they do things a certain way, or differently from one another.
blue02hd
08-06-2007, 08:50
jdoval,
One easy way to understand why hoods are not always used: Go buy a full face hood and run around your block twice while breathing through your nose.
THEN consider all the kit an assaulter would carry.
You'll drop the mask.
.....I work in 1st Bn, 3rd Grp....My guys in the 2 shop wear gimp masks. :D
Make sure the lads have the new tactical leather models from RFI. Flash fires can cause problems with the old SOPMOD vinyl model, resulting in "permanent mouth zipper". :D
NousDefionsDoc
08-06-2007, 18:37
Doesn't really matter if the terrorist is dead on the floor now does it........
And there will be only one version of events told and it will be mines....
And there will be only one version of events told and it will be mines....
That reminds me of something we saw the other day driving around town. A guy on a Harley wearing a t-shirt that said:
"Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead." :p
The hubby guffawed.
Tomahawk202
08-06-2007, 18:50
It is strictly mission specific. I used to wear a full faced mask when I was on the tac team in Philly, because I was the same guy that bought the dope out of the house for the search warrant, 10 hours ago. We didn't want to blow our cover, for future operations.
If you have a "need" to know, then talk to your boss and the guys that have been doing the job for a while.
Otherwise, get Q'd first, then worry about all the "sexy stuff", your never going to wear......:rolleyes:
Peregrino
08-06-2007, 18:55
.... then worry about all the "sexy stuff", your never going to wear......:rolleyes:
That one's going to sting a bit. :D Peregrino
They are for looks, serious. One of the advantages they provide is a psychological edge over the enemy. Why Black? Black has always been associated with Evil, The unknown and Death.
Black Kit is now the unpopular color. Originally Tactical SWAT Gear came in one color, Black. The different shades of Foliage we see today became available around 2000. These Foliage colors only became readily available around 2004. These Foliage colors only become common in the last year.
We are not at the point of not paying a little more or having to ask if xxxxx comes in OD, Ranger Green. But we are close.
Equipment we never thought could be anything but Black is available in Foliage Colors. Magazines, Lower Receivers, Slings, Pelican cases and yes, the BC.
I don't think the desire to look Alien and scare People was the deciding factor for choosing Black. I have taught a few Equipment classes over the years. Most Equipment Poi’s I have used. Do teach these effects of Black Kit on the Enemy. But I never saw anything that stated this being the reason for Black.
The BC doesn't only protect and hide your face. It also can protect your neck and hair from hot ambers produced by explosive charges. This is part of the reason you don't see SOF using them much today.
Helmets weren't mandatory for most SOF until the early nineties. They were not considered cool either. So the only way to protect your hair was with a BC. What I'm saying is anyone who thinks helmets aren’t cool. Probably spends a lot of time on their Hair. They would never expose their hair to the obvious ambient threats produced by explosions and Gun fire. Today helmets provide this protection. Because they are mandatory and cool;)
The Reaper
08-06-2007, 20:50
Giv' that man a PISS test!:D
Farkin' bastidges!
TR
Just to add one more thing, I'm not SF or anything, but the only time I would ever where one of these dodads was when I was gunner on my truck. It would help shield my face from the elements as well as the dust. It's really the only application where I can see wearing a balaclava/face mask would be practical for the everyday soldier. Heck, even then, when not in motion, the shite would get hotter then hell....
Tomahawk202
08-07-2007, 12:59
That one's going to sting a bit. :D Peregrino
LOL, you got it boss.....:cool:
Giv' that man a PISS test!:D
Farkin' bastidges!
TR
Damm....I have to remember not to post on days like that. Should of seen what was edited out.
The Reaper
08-07-2007, 17:20
Sorry, I slipped into my Russian 3/7 CSM impersonation mode there.:D
"Leave my farkin' banana trees alone you corksackers."
TR
when I was on the tac team in Philly,
Tomahawk - check your PM
Why would you want to cover your ears and nose, depriving yourself of important senses?