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LongWire
07-27-2007, 22:16
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/28/us/28chopper.html?ref=us

By PAUL GIBLIN
Published: July 28, 2007
PHOENIX, July 27 —Two television news helicopters crashed in midair Friday while covering a police chase near downtown, killing all four people aboard.

The helicopters exploded in the air, then crashed in a grassy area of Steele Indian School Park, with at least one helicopter exploding again as it hit the ground, witnesses said.

Two men in each helicopter died at the scene. No one on the ground was injured. The park is surrounded by a Veterans Administration hospital and high-rise office buildings and condominiums.

Three other news helicopters covering the police chase broadcast images of the burning wreckage.

“I saw the helicopters up there,” said Frank Bartholic of Phoenix, who was sitting at a nearby bus stop.

“All of a sudden they got up over the park,” said Mr. Bartholic, 47. “They looked like they was going to go two different directions. They just came back around and went right into each other. I mean, whoa.”

Several police officers who were involved in the chase ran to the wreckage, but were driven back by the flames and heat, witnesses said.

The police arrested the man involved in the chase, a suspect in a car-jacking, several hours later after a stand-off at a private residence.

Those killed were a pilot, Craig Smith, and a photographer, Rick Krolak, of KNXV, the ABC affiliate; and a pilot, Scott Bowerbank, and a photographer, Jim Cox, of KTVK, an independent station.

Six helicopters were in the air at the time of the collision — five news helicopters and a police helicopter.

Accounts of the collision varied. Some witnesses said that the helicopters were hovering one above the other and that the lower one rose and hit the other one. Other witnesses said they hit head to head.

“All of us in this community have had a special loss today,” Mayor Phil Gordon of Phoenix said at a news conference.

KNXV was broadcasting the chase live as the collision occurred. One of the men aboard the helicopter, identified by The Associated Press as Mr. Smith, was describing the scene as the driver leading the chase abandoned a utility truck and jumped into a parked pick-up truck. Then Mr. Smith said, “Oh, jeez!” The video went out, but sounds of a collision and swirling continued for a few seconds before the station cut away.

Witnesses said one helicopter fell nose first while the other spiraled down.

Both TV stations covered the crash, though their reporters, photographers and technicians on the scene said they had been instructed not to speak to other members of the news media about the collision.

Flags few at half-staff and the lobby doors were locked at KTVK .

Omar Garcia of Phoenix was outside preparing to have lunch with his co-workers when they heard the first explosion.

Debris sprayed the area, said Mr. Garcia, 31. “I was so scared,” he said. “I was trying to hide so it wouldn’t reach us.” Flames from the wreckage were initially about four-stories high, he said.

Chief Jack Harris of the Police Department told reporters, “This is just a terrible tragedy for both of our families — the media family as well as the Phoenix Police Department.”

The authorities will consider charges against the truck driver in connection with the helicopter collision, Chief Harris said.

Officials said the suspect, whom they did not identify, rammed at least two police cars in the chase.


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Yeah good luck trying to stick those charges on the suspect.

Team Sergeant
07-28-2007, 09:08
Went down very close to the VA center. It was on our airwaves for hours after the crash.

On an unrelated note, a Phoenix Police officer was shot and killed last night and the perp is still on the loose.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/0727shot0727.html

The Reaper
07-28-2007, 09:33
And a pair of P-51s collided at Oshkosh.

Not a good day for aviation in the U.S.

I have been wondering how long it would be before these news choppers crashed, where the pilot is also the reporter and the cameraman is the only other crew member and there seem to be several at every event.

I guess VFR are more difficult when you are trying to fly, chase, observe, and report all at the same time, and before the competition scoops you.

TR

LongWire
07-28-2007, 11:03
I thought it was interesting that they would try and pin the crash on the suspect.
Yeah if there were no chase, no crash.....but come on??? Do trees really make a sound when falling if no one is there?

That would be like every family member suing the Government for the loss of their servicemember!!!!!!!!

SFS0AVN
07-28-2007, 12:36
It was just a matter of time for this to happen. Live police chases on TV are a big thing all over the US. Everyone in the aircraft is looking at the chase and no one is looking where they are going or is aware of the other aircraft around them. Air traffic control probably called them, but they were too busy with the chase to hear. I still believe that in these high density areas they should be required to have Proximity Warning Devises.

Fiercely Loyal
07-28-2007, 15:12
I still believe that in these high density areas they should be required to have Proximity Warning Devises.

Sir, aren't those called Crewchiefs?

On a seperate note, Are the civilian pilots held to lower or higher standard of flight training than military from your experience?

smokfire
07-28-2007, 17:17
An airshow pilot was killed today at Dayton, OH. as well. Sounds like he stalled out at the bottom of a loop and impacted the runway. After the flames were extinguished firefighters cut him out of the aircraft but he expired enroute to the hospital. Sad couple of days in aviation. With the volume of planes EAA fly-in at Oshkosh handles; the law of averages will eventually catch up.

smokfire

smokfire
07-28-2007, 20:59
Both of these helos did have separate reporters. Two pilots and two reporters were killed. I think the FAA would not allow a single pilot to fly, commentate and operate a remote camera.

smokfire

The Reaper
07-28-2007, 21:21
Did you guys not understand?

Reports said that there were TWO people per aircraft. One cameraman, and one pilot/reporter.

One reason they don't carry more people is salaries, another is seats. Those aren't Chinooks they are flying. :rolleyes:

TR

smokfire
07-28-2007, 23:16
Sir, I understand there were four people killed, two per aircraft. I was commenting to the total killed and not their roles inside the aircraft. I was extremely surprised to read that the pilots perform any other task than flying in these situations. IMHO, with six aircraft from competeing news organizations over a small, mobile target constantly changing direction and speed, the pilot would be too busy to report or operate a remote camera. Also the pilot needs to maintain effective communications with air traffic control and other aircraft to maintain visual separation. I agree with broadsword that for safety reasons the reporter should be trained to operate the cameras and not the pilot.

smokfire

SFS0AVN
07-29-2007, 09:36
Sir, aren't those called Crewchiefs?

On a seperate note, Are the civilian pilots held to lower or higher standard of flight training than military from your experience?

The civilian standard is high BUT not as high as the military standard.
It should be pointed out that many (not all) news media pilots are/were military pilots.

Retired W4
07-29-2007, 10:30
Yesterday was not a good day for civil aviation, but not an unusual one. The fact that air shows and news helicopters were involved contributed to the MSM attention.

As for task saturation in the cockpit(s) is concerned, we used to teach Aero Scout pilots to fly, navigate, observe, report, coordinate, designate targets, perform all the various recon missions, etc., all while flipping through a CEOI while under modified AN PVS-5’s. This was pre-GPS and ANVIS, in some of the most complex airspace overlays in the world.

It all comes down to a phrase heard repeatedly on this website. SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.

PSM
07-29-2007, 11:17
This is interesting solely because it’s unusual. Nobody would be discussing it if the four had died as a result of two news vans colliding at an intersection.

Pat

Ambush Master
07-29-2007, 11:30
Both of these helos did have separate reporters. Two pilots and two reporters were killed. I think the FAA would not allow a single pilot to fly, commentate and operate a remote camera.

smokfire

They were most likely operating under Part 91 Regs, and even if they were under Part 135, Single Pilot is legal.

What they either did not have or were not paying attention to/had turned on was a TCAS System!!!

TCAS = Traffic Collision Avoidance System!! See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_Collision_Avoidance_System

This is not "Radar", but it tells the pilots where other aircraft are in their immediate area and also what control response is needed to avoid them!!

The two ships involved are not required to have it, but most likely should!!!

Any further explanation would best be handled via PM/Phone!! It is extremely complicated!!

Fiercely Loyal
07-29-2007, 16:59
The civilian standard is high BUT not as high as the military standard.
It should be pointed out that many (not all) news media pilots are/were military pilots.

Rgr Sir. Many of our pilots retire and go the the civil side in AK. I just seem to remember a mind boggling amount of regs and reqs during my RL progression and wondered if they had something similar civil side. Thanks Sir.

FL