PDA

View Full Version : Kerry and his medals - in the news again


Maya
04-26-2004, 11:34
"I stood up in front of the country, reached into my shirt, visibly for the nation to see, and took the ribbons off my chest, said a few words and threw them over the fence," the Massachusetts senator told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Monday. He calledtheflapa "phony controversy."

It seems to me the only thing phony is Sen. Kerry. He threw medals, "visibly for the nation to see", given for honor, bravery, and duty, to the ground, as he put it "the administration forced him to do it". It also seems that it is always someone else's fault, for it is all about JK and what will advance JK's power and wealth, and never his responsibility or fault.

Here is the full story:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118142,00.html

Old news but he brings it up every time he claims his Vietnam service, and heroic actions today

Maya

colmurph
04-28-2004, 11:37
He may have more trouble coming his way. According to the guy who was skipper of his boat before Kerry got it, Kerry's first Purple Heart was for an action that happened to HIM before Kerry even got on the boat. Kerry's Purple Hearts may be bogus.

Maya
04-28-2004, 16:51
Oh Really? Why doesn't that shock me.

Maya

Solid
04-28-2004, 16:57
I think NDD made the most accurate statement. Kerry is from the JFK school. Veteran status + medals (bogus or not) = election triumphs.

I hope that doesn't offend anyone, it seems like a genuine observation. I've heard that Kennedy was closer to being court marshalled than given a medal for his PT actions before his Dad stepped in. However, and it's a big however, this could just be the British media trying to destroy an American Icon.

Solid

echoes
04-28-2004, 17:50
The bottom line in the case of Mr. Kerry, is that He willingly, and knowingly threw his medals.
What a piece of SH**.

Only a coward does that. Only someone who is seeking attention and great amounts of it, could do that.
I find it hilarious that He could even consider running for President.
Some of the same "Brave Soldiers" who were with Him in 'Nam, now serve in Our Government. What's He gonna say: "Oh, well, I uh, ummmm...."

DOn't think so. It does not fly with me, and I hope more of Us are out there.

Holly:mad:

Solid
04-28-2004, 18:08
I differ slightly on this. If someone wants to make a statement, which Kerry did by throwing down his medals, then they should be allowed to do it as long as they are willing to face the consiquences.
He is apparently not, as he continues to play off of his 'war hero' persona. While I didn't appreciate him throwing down his medals, I certainly don't approve of his hypocrisy.

Solid

echoes
04-28-2004, 18:26
Originally posted by Solid
I differ slightly on this. If someone wants to make a statement, which Kerry did by throwing down his medals, then they should be allowed to do it as long as they are willing to face the consiquences.
He is apparently not, as he continues to play off of his 'war hero' persona. While I didn't appreciate him throwing down his medals, I certainly don't approve of his hypocrisy.

Solid

THEN WHY, DO YOU DIFFER? It is really simple when one does the math. Kerry threw down his medals=He threw down the Memory and Honor of Those that were lost. Peroid!

Holly

Solid
04-28-2004, 18:35
I didn't see it that way. Then again, I haven't heard any statements from the event, but at least symbolically it can be interpreted differently. I see it as Kerry protesting the war in which he won those medals. However, I understand where you're coming from. Either way, neither act correlates AT ALL with him using his veteranship as a platform. My point was basically that it's the hypocrisy that stands out, in all cases, as his worst characteristic, despite the fact that his actions before hand were also disrespectful.


Solid

brownapple
04-28-2004, 20:11
Originally posted by Solid
I didn't see it that way. Then again, I haven't heard any statements from the event, but at least symbolically it can be interpreted differently. I see it as Kerry protesting the war in which he won those medals.

While still holding a commission as a Naval Officer.

Airbornelawyer
04-28-2004, 21:33
John F. Kerry's political ambitions were molded early, and he found a role model in his family's friend, the other JFK, quite early as well.

After finishing his undergrad degree Kerry initially trying to get a deferment to study abroad. But Vietnam had heated up, and deferments were harder to get. With no deferment and a draft number likely to put him in Army fatigues, he volunteered for the Navy, where his role model had served. After a desultory year on a ship, he realized he had no "Profile in Courage" to capitalize on, so he volunteered for an assignment closer to the action.

He volunteered for Swifts because (a) that was as close as the Vietnam War had to JFK's PT-109 and (b) unlike the River Patrol Force and the Mobile Riverine Force, the Swifts were coastal patrol vessels, so they weren't considered as risky. He got his orders in the Summer of 1968 and went to Coronado to train, arriving at a Coastal Division in late November 1968.

Unfortunately for him, on November 5, 1968, VADM Elmo Zumwalt, who had taken command of Naval Forces Vietnam in the Fall, issued OPLAN 111-69. That OPLAN set in motion the "South-East Asian Lake, Ocean, River, and Delta Strategy" or SEALORDS. One of Admiral Zumwalt's changes under SEALORDS was that Swifts were no longer coastal patrols, but were assigned to the inland waterways alongside the River Patrol Force and the Mobile Riverine Force.

So our intrepid JFK wannabe suddenly finds himself searching sampans upriver rather than cruising around China Beach. Three Purple Hearts come in rapid succession, for minor wounds which cause him no lost duty. One was described as a little scratch (LCDR Grant Hibbard, Kerry's commander to whom he reported his wound, stated later (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/04/14/kerry_faces_questions_over_purple_heart/) "I've had thorns from a rose that were worse."). In March 1969, after four months on two different boats, he's on his way back to the world.

A cushy gig as an Admiral's aide gives him time to evaluate what direction to take his future political ambitions.

Soon he is off active duty, joining the anti-war movement , and calling his fellow servicemembers war criminals and his government's policies deliberate in that regard. When the anti-war movement starts to get out of hand and contemplate political assassinations, he steps back and seeks to preserve his political viability. He leaves VVAW, but doesn't tell anyone about the threats against political leaders and later claims to not recall being at the meeting where the assassinations were discussed.

On reaching political office, he earns one of the most liberal voting records possible. On defense issues, he can be relied on to oppose almost any program. The issue that really motivates him in the 1980s is banning testing of anti-satellite weapons. He also supports a nuclear freeze, unilateral cuts of US chemical weapons stockpiles, an end to SDI and cuts of cruise missiles, ICBMs and other strategic programs. Apparently, the only WMDs he ever got exercised about were American ones.

Of course, if you think America is the kind of place that purposefully sends its soldiers off to act "in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan", naturally you would consider the US to be the rogue state in need of reining in by the international community.

In the 1990s, the Clinton Administration cuts in defense aren't deep enough, and Sen. Kerry drafts a bill to cut more programs across the board, including $1.5 billion from the intelligence budget. He later claims he was trying to press for efficiency and better resource allocation (“What we were trying to do, some of us, was push the funding not into technical means. There was a fascination always with satellites, listening devices, not with human intelligence. I’ve always been somebody who has felt that we needed human intelligence, that’s our failure.… I wanted to reduce spending from national technical means and change the culture of our intelligence gathering.") But the actual text of his proposal says only "[r]educe the Intelligence budget by $300 million in each of fiscal years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000." Nothing about pushing funding in any direction; just straight cuts.

Senator McCain's defense of Kerry, that GOP charges that his votes against various defense programs are spurious because many Senators end up opposing omnibus bills laden with pork even while supporting specific programs within the bill, rings hollow. S. 1290, the proposal that sought the $1.5 billion intelligence budget cuts and other caps on defense and related spending, was authored by Kerry. It wasn't a take-it-or-leave-it bill Kerry found himself presented with, where conscience dictated that he vote against the pork even if that meant voting against all those wonderful weapons he really supported. This bill reflected Kerry's views and Kerry's priorities. A list of all the caps and cuts Kerry wanted can be seen in my post here (http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35221).

The medal flap - demostrating his political extremism and opportunism, his inability to keep his stories straight and his sheer arrogance when confronted with his character flaws - is a metaphor for his entire public life.

Solid
04-29-2004, 05:01
AL, as always that was extremely helpful and ludicrously well-written. Thank you.
I ass'me that throwing medals around while still in the military is a crime?
No punishment??

Solid

Roguish Lawyer
04-29-2004, 10:02
Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
A list of all the caps and cuts Kerry wanted can be seen in my post here (http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35221).

It figures he'd want to eliminate the selective service system. Huge budget item and no national security benefits at all associated with registration. :rolleyes:

echoes
05-03-2004, 17:54
Originally posted by Solid
AL, as always that was extremely helpful and ludicrously well-written. Thank you.
I ass'me that throwing medals around while still in the military is a crime? No punishment?? Solid

He should have been, IMO. WHat a degrading ACT. TO piss on the memories of Those who had already died... I think Kerry is a POS, and deserves to be BEATEN in the Election.

Holly

Gypsy
05-03-2004, 20:00
Looks like a firestorm is headed his way. About time. Hundreds of former commanders and military colleagues are gathering at a press conference in Washington tomorrow to declare in a signed letter that he is "unfit to be commander-in-chief."

Wish I could be there to watch this.

The Reaper
05-03-2004, 20:03
Originally posted by Gypsy
Looks like a firestorm is headed his way. About time. Hundreds of former commanders and military colleagues are gathering at a press conference in Washington tomorrow to declare in a signed letter that he is "unfit to be commander-in-chief."

Wish I could be there to watch this.

I predict minimal, if any coverage.

TR

Gypsy
05-03-2004, 20:06
You could be right Sir, but I hope you're wrong. Just this once mind you...

MSNBC did give it a mention this evening as well.


Full article:

Kerry 'Unfit to be Commander-in-Chief', Say Former Military Colleagues
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
May 03, 2004


(CNSNews.com) - Hundreds of former commanders and military colleagues of presumptive Democratic nominee John Kerry are set to declare in a signed letter that he is "unfit to be commander-in-chief." They will do so at a press conference in Washington on Tuesday.


"What is going to happen on Tuesday is an event that is really historical in dimension," John O'Neill, a Vietnam veteran who served in the Navy as a PCF (Patrol Craft Fast) boat commander, told CNSNews.com . The event, which is expected to draw about 25 of the letter-signers, is being organized by a newly formed group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.


"We have 19 of 23 officers who served with [Kerry]. We have every commanding officer he ever had in Vietnam. They all signed a letter that says he is unfit to be commander-in-chief," O'Neill said.


O'Neill, currently a Houston, Texas, based attorney, is no stranger to Kerry. O'Neill served in the same naval unit as Kerry and commanded Kerry's swift boat after Kerry returned to the United States. Kerry's command of the PCF boat lasted four months and ended shortly after he received his third Purple Heart. According to naval regulations at the time, any soldier who received three Purple Hearts could request a transfer out of the combat zone.


Kerry and O'Neill engaged in a nationally televised debate in 1971 on The Dick Cavett Show over Kerry's allegations that many Vietnam soldiers had routinely engaged in atrocities such as raping and cutting off ears and heads of Vietnamese soldiers and citizens. Kerry was the then spokesman for the anti-war group Vietnam Veterans Against the War.


"We are going to be presenting a letter that deals with Kerry's unfitness to be commander and chief that has been signed by hundreds of swift boat sailors, including most of those who served with Kerry," O'Neill explained.


"The ranks of the people signing [the letter] range from admiral down to seaman, and they run across the entire spectrum of politics, specialties, and political feelings about the Vietnam War," he added.


Among those scheduled to attend the event at the National Press Club and declare Kerry unfit for the role of commander-in-chief are retired Naval Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, who was the commander of the Navy Coastal Surveillance Force, which included the swift boats on which Kerry served.


Also scheduled to be present at the event is Kerry's former commanding officer, Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard. Hibbard recently questioned whether Kerry deserved the first of his three Purple Hearts that he received in Vietnam. Hibbard doubted both the severity of the wound and whether it resulted from enemy fire.


"I've had thorns from a rose that were worse" than Kerry's wound for which he received a Purple Heart, Hibbard told the Boston Globe in April.


Organizers are confident that Tuesday's event and the letter with hundreds of signatures will educate people about Kerry.


"It is one of the largest outpourings of concern about him being commander-in-chief that anybody could have in a presidential campaign and it is by the people who know him best," O'Neill said.


'Unfit Commander-in-Chief'


Swift Boat Veterans For Truth maintains that Kerry's fellow Vietnam veterans are almost uniform in their disdain for his military service and anti-war protests.


"Not only a majority of the people who served with him feel that way, but a vast and overwhelming majority," O'Neill said. He added that more than "ninety percent of the people contacted by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth responded to the request to sign their name, with only 12 declining to sign.


"Comrades who actually served with him, almost all of them, are opposed to him, and believe he would be an unfit commander in chief and intend to bring the truth of his actual record to the attention of the American people," O'Neill said.


O'Neill hopes the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth can reveal to the American people what he sees as Kerry's flawed character.


"In the military, loyalty between commanders and the troops serving them is a two-way street. We have here a guy (Kerry) that with all of us in the field [in Vietnam] -- actually fighting the North Vietnamese -- came home and then falsely accused all of us of war crimes at a time when the people in uniform couldn't even respond," O'Neill said.


"And he did that knowing that was a lie," he added.


'Real John Kerry'


B. G. Burkett, author of the book Stolen Valor and a military researcher, believes that Tuesday's event will not be dismissed easily by Kerry's campaign as a "partisan" attack.


"There are probably just as many Democrats amongst sailors who sailed swift boats as there are Republicans. What Kerry fails to realize is this has nothing to do with politics -- this has to with Vietnam Veterans who served, who have a beef with John Kerry's service, both during and after the war," Burkett told CNSNews.com.
"The American people do not know John Kerry and hopefully the swift boat crews and other Vietnam veterans will make sure that the American public knows the real John Kerry," he added.


Jim Loftus of Kerry's press office referred questions about Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's event on Tuesday to spokesman David Wade. Wade did not return CNSNews.com's requests for comment.