View Full Version : On my way!!
I recently decided to become an SF soldier and in doing so, I have gotten the support of friends and family. The word has spread of my decision to become SF and to my surprise, not everyone is I should say supportive of my decision. Mostly my command and peers at work. My 1SG laughed at me, my CO told me that he would see me in 2 weeks after I leave, my PLT SGT called me out in formation, "We have another SF failure." My eyes are on the prize at the end, and no matter what it takes or how long it may take I WILL REACH THE END despite what anyone thinks. Im the one that is going to be carrying that ruck, or doing those push ups, not them. It's ok that they make fun of me for doing what I'm doing, all they are doing is adding fuel to the fire. I guess I'm asking if it's normal for someone to get this kind of negative attention when one decides to become SF?
I see you're here, I'll let you chat with him.
I guess I'm asking if it's normal for someone to get this kind of negative attention
Post a intro before you get more negative attention.
The Reaper
07-24-2007, 13:00
I recently decided to become an SF soldier and in doing so, I have gotten the support of friends and family. The word has spread of my decision to become SF and to my surprise, not everyone is I should say supportive of my decision. Mostly my command and peers at work. My 1SG laughed at me, my CO told me that he would see me in 2 weeks after I leave, my PLT SGT called me out in formation, "We have another SF failure." My eyes are on the prize at the end, and no matter what it takes or how long it may take I WILL REACH THE END despite what anyone thinks. Im the one that is going to be carrying that ruck, or doing those push ups, not them. It's ok that they make fun of me for doing what I'm doing, all they are doing is adding fuel to the fire. I guess I'm asking if it's normal for someone to get this kind of negative attention when one decides to become SF?
It is if you fail to follow the instructions that you received in your registration message, to read before talking, to search on your own with the Search button before asking, or to ignore stickies that say "Read This First" or "Your First Post Goes Here", and if you are the sort to go around asking questions of strangers without introducing yourself first.
Are you the kind of individual who likes attention enough to act up or ignore the rules in order to get it?
TR
TR
THAT WAS MY MISTAKE, AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.
Scimitar
07-24-2007, 22:53
I can understand a CO being frustrated with lossing good soldiers to another unit like SF.
But is this kind of attitude typical of those going the internal route to SF?
I understood that the conventional army is somewhat weary of SF but.....
Scimitar
I can understand a CO being frustrated with lossing good soldiers to another unit like SF.
But is this kind of attitude typical of those going the internal route to SF?
I understood that the conventional army is somewhat weary of SF but.....
Scimitar
Jag36's case is a alittle extreme I think.
the reg Army Units are faced with a man power shortage so I am sure all the commanders will be disapointed at the loss of another soldier in thier command.
On the brighter side.
One monkey never stopped the show. (Conventional Army)
The diffrence is in (SF) one monkey can make the show happen...
The Reaper
07-25-2007, 08:52
I can understand a CO being frustrated with lossing good soldiers to another unit like SF.
But is this kind of attitude typical of those going the internal route to SF?
I understood that the conventional army is somewhat weary of SF but.....
Scimitar
Unfortunately, that happens all too often, particularly in a couple of conventional infantry units tired of losing guys to SF.
I spoke with SFAS students about this and collected surveys on it for four years.
The Ranger Battalions are the worst. The funny thing is that they will literally give a guy time off to prepare for selection for another Spec Ops unit, but they will try to screw over any guy who puts in an SF packet, try to cause him to fail SFAS, then release him from the Regiment back to a conventional unit. That goes for officers and enlisted.
There is also one Brigade in the 82nd and most of the 3rd ID that are big time SF haters. Curiously, most support units help guys going to SFAS, and infantry units try to stop them.
These units that hate SF or do not want soldiers going to Selection have a history of refusing to process SFAS packets and sitting on them, putting guys with SFAS packets on extra duty, unexpectedly taking them on deployment ADVONS, hiding orders till 24 hours before flight time, removing them from leadership positions, pulling them off E-5 promotion rosters, moving them back into the barracks, taking them off Sep Rats, threats of UCMJ actions, unfavorable personnel actions, deletion from other school rosters and OMLs, rewriting completed (but not submitted) NCOERs and OERs, threats, intimidation, coercion, etc.
Ironically, most of the kids that this happened to felt that this motivated them to do better, since the bridge was already burned behind them. Those who did not get selected and did not come back to SFAS probably opted not to reenlist when the window opened again. IMHO, this attitude by the CoC hurts the Army, the unit, and the soldier.
Units are not required to allow time off or independent PT, but at the same time, putting guys on the CQ roster for days at the time is a violation of the regs.
The root cause is command influence, to include the NCO side of the house. For every guy who got threatened by his Company Commander, four got leaned on by their Platoon Sergeant or First Sergeant over submitting a packet and becoming a "traitor". This is pretty short sighted, since from a one-month school, the kids who are selected will help the Army and make their mission easier, becoming force multipliers, and the ones who attend SFAS and are not selected (but do not quit) have learned a ton about themselves and how to operate in the woods.
Some guys go to SFAS for the wrong reasons, like doing it to get out of a unit, to change MOSes, to get to dress differently, because they want to grow beards and long hair, to do HSLD DA missions, they like the CDI factor, they want the green beret, to get out of deployments, they are Badgefinders, because of a perceived "Big boy rules" environment, etc. These guys are normally not selected, because their motivation and focus are inadequate to sustain them through the difficulties of the SFAS program.
I would personally advise anyone submitting a packet to consider their motivation for this decision. If you want to do it for the right reasons, talk to the recruiters. Then talk to your spouse, significant others, etc. Next, ask the guys in your unit who have submitted packets themselves about how they were treated by the chain of command. If any peers have been to SFAS, talk to them as well. Unless the command climate is extremely positive, I would wait till any promotions or NCOERs are complete, things were solid in the unit and at home, I was physically prepared within the window of class dates, and then hand carry the 4187 through the CoC, remembering that they do not get to approve or disapprove, but may only recommend approval/disapproval. It helps to be on the good side of the clerks and admin people who can call when the packet is ready. This may, or may not be easier to process when key CoC members are present. Personally track the 4187 and make sure that it is in the system and then track the status and class dates. Once you know the class report date, track the status of the travel orders. The recruiter should be able to help with quite a bit of this.
Generically, the spring and fall classes are the best time to attend. The summers here are pretty hot and humid, and the low lying vegetation tends to be more difficult to move through and blocks sight lines. The winters can be cold with freezing rain or ice storms, but not normally any significant accumulation of snow. In the winter, the low vegetation is thinner, but the water crossings can suck pretty badly. Personally, I would rank the order of preference as spring, fall, winter, summer, but if you want it badly enough, any class will do. Your motivation and focus are more important than your boots, the season, or the opinion of your CoC.
Best of luck.
TR
Scimitar
07-25-2007, 09:11
TR & 7624U fantastic feedback gentlemen.
Your time and knowledge is always appreciated.
Thank you
Scimitar
My husband's best friend made it through SFAS (he was told by his command that he could only go over the block leave leading up to deployment - so that's when he went during the middle of July :D ). His (ranger qualified, high speed infantry group) BN CO was very unhappy with the decision and even more unhappy when he was picked up since he was faced with losing his S2. He was supposed to deploy with them but return 6 months later to start the pipeline. Unfortunately for our friend, he's too good at his job and his BN CO can't bear the thought of losing him (especially while deployed), so his orders to return stateside to start training have been cancelled a couple of times by some major drug deals very high up the rank structures. To make matters worse, he's getting insulted at every turn being called a traitor, deserter, etc because of his decision to go SF. This guy has never and would never give less then 110% and he's brilliant to boot. We're just back here hoping he doesn't throw the towel in completely after the crap he's being put through. I'm pretty sure he'll come out fine because SF has been his ultimate goal since he entered the service and he's just that kind of guy - but it stinks nevertheless.
It's been going on for a loooong time. All the things TR mentioned happened to me when I tried and finally left the 82nd. I think some of it is also lack of knowledge and maybe a little jealousy from the loosing unit.
TR
Thanks for the advice that you have written, and the knowledge you bring to the table for younger minds like myself have to take in. Being put down by someone I thought I could turn to for guidence and support to further my career is a horrible thing. I don't think anyone making a decision to further their career i.e becoming SF should be put through anything like that. I guess it's just something that can't be avoided but can be overcome. Now that I found a place that I can come to for support and serious advice when needed, helps not only me, but others like myself looking for guidence. Again thanks for the replies and keep em coming, I still have lots to learn.
JAG
On another web site, under my screenname is the tag line:
"Been *****, when being ***** wasn't cool."
Based on the country song "... and I was country, when country wasn't cool."
In 1975 my Infantry Branch manager (this being back in the days when Special Forces officers kept their branch) tried to talk me out of Special Forces school and assignment. I was at Ft. Bragg, and had made it through a less formal and structured assessment and selection process, but my branch manager wanted me to go to the 82nd Airborne Division instead of commencing training with SF Officer's Course and an assignment to 7th Group.
"Don't you know," he said, "Viet Nam is over. Special Forces is over. One entire SF group has already been inactivated [3rd Group, Okinawa] . 5th Group left 'Nam in disgrace after that murder thing with the six SF officers [MAJ Budge Williams, et al.] what we need is armor divisions for when the Warsaw Pact comes through the Fulda Gap. Special Forces is the kiss of death to an officer's career!" and so on
And I told him that I predicted that Special Forces was the future of the Army, that we would be needing more, not less unconventional warfare capability. Not what the Major wanted to hear from a 1st Lieutenant. So I was allowed to "ruin my career" by earning the full flash.(Today, we would say "the Long Tab").
SO, bottom line: we need Special Forces more than ever. They will always be few in number. Yes, they will be a brain drain on the rest of the conventional army (and yes, I used the words "brain" and "Special Forces" in the same sentence; the 'pushup/rucksack' part of SF qualification is much overrated), but those who can see the future of warfare will know what is required and will not be discouraged from seeking to serve in the most demanding of positions and assignments.
Bill Harsey
07-25-2007, 18:38
My history lesson on this stuff goes back to the 14 years I spent working for one Col. Rex Applegate, one of the core founding members of the OSS in WW2.
The situation of SF versus regular army has a long history.
Edited to add: Like SFSOAVN says.
Are some of the reasons that someone rejects the idea of someone goin SF are because they couldn't, can't see someone else succed farther than they went, or just basically just try and bring that person down to their level?
Aequitas
07-25-2007, 22:22
TR's post should have given you the information you asked for. It would benefit you to stop focusing on the negative aspects of this situation and start focusing on how to succeed at your new found goal in life. Staying positive is a life changing philosophy. It does wonders...Don't waste the precious energy you have on trying to figure out someone's thought processes. You're going to need every ounce and then some. You'll find out shortly that this is a battle within yourself. There's no help, no coaching, no encouragement. It's time to stand up and prove what you've got. Good luck on your journey.
Aequitas,
Thanks for the reply. I am a fresh mind in the world of SF and learning alot along the way. The more information that I can get from anyone helps me that much more to completing my goal. I know it's not bad to want to prove people wrong, but is it bad to think that when I do accomplish my goal that I want everyone that told me I wouldn't do it, see me in my career? Again thanks for the insight.
Aequitas
07-25-2007, 22:49
Aequitas,
Thanks for the reply. I am a fresh mind in the world of SF and learning alot along the way. The more information that I can get from anyone helps me that much more to completing my goal. I know it's not bad to want to prove people wrong, but is it bad to think that when I do accomplish my goal that I want everyone that told me I wouldn't do it, see me in my career? Again thanks for the insight.
I would say that's human nature to want to stick it to the man or make people eat their words, but do remember the profession you wish to join. Just look to the top of this page and reread the words on the top right side. I believe it's better to do everything you can without the hope of getting the recognition b/c no matter what you think...someone is always watching. There are probably others that can hit on this a lot better than I can. Just watch your six and protect the guys to your left and right. Stay safe.
The Reaper
07-25-2007, 23:23
Just wondering, but how can they threaten UCMJ against someone wanting to go SF?
The commander can threaten anything he wants, and offer UCMJ.
If an idiot accepts it, he can punish him as well.
The smart man, and the innocent, should refuse and request the Court Martial.
jag36, there is a lot more important stuff to worry about than the actions of a few knuckleheads. Your time would be better spent searching and reading here rather than beating this dead horse further.
TR
TR
You're right, I just have to keep my eye on the prize at the end of the road and do everything I can to reach it. In the end I'm the one with the ruck sack on my back doing those marches. It's up to me. Thanks for the advice TR.
frostfire
07-26-2007, 10:21
Scimitar, jag36, in case you haven't found this:
Does the "Regular Army" hate SF? (http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4642)
stanley_white
07-26-2007, 11:25
I would say that's human nature to want to stick it to the man or make people eat their words, but do remember the profession you wish to join. Just look to the top of this page and reread the words on the top right side. I believe it's better to do everything you can without the hope of getting the recognition b/c no matter what you think...someone is always watching. There are probably others that can hit on this a lot better than I can. Just watch your six and protect the guys to your left and right. Stay safe.
My best friend and I always reference the film "The Karate Kid" as strange as that may seem.
Mr. Miyagi was the man because he kept his Medal of Honor in a box underneath his bed. He didn't need to publicly display it or tell stories about it. He knew he earned it and that was enough.
I know it's not bad to want to prove people wrong, but is it bad to think that when I do accomplish my goal that I want everyone that told me I wouldn't do it, see me in my career? Again thanks for the insight.
I'm not a Quiet Professional, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night...however as with most things in life, the best "revenge" is living well. Which translates into doing what you love, excelling and being happy with your choices. They'll get it...and even if they don't does it really matter as long as you're living the life you wish to live? ;)
Good luck to you, thanks for stepping up to serve.