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jatx
06-30-2007, 10:25
Background

Since attending Paul Howe's course at CSAT in February, I have continued to work on my carbine fundamentals. On average, I'm shooting about 1,000 rds per month, divided into two half-day training sessions during which I drill on Paul's standards, plus 30 minutes of dry fire once per week. My progress on those standards has been satisfactory. For example, Paul's failure drill at 7 yds calls for 5 rds center mass and 1 rd to the head in under 3 seconds. I am now averaging 2.1-2.2 seconds on a pretty consistent basis while maintaining accuracy.

As a result, I recently began looking for a follow-on course that would help me develop incrementally, adhere to the same basic philosophy regarding stance, etc., and provide a higher-pressure training environment. I found all of these things and more in Jeff Gonzales's Combative Carbine 1/Shooting on the Move Carbine course held over three days last weekend in Corsicana, TX.

Facilities

Our class was hosted by Predator Ranch, a new facility 1 hour southeast of Dallas that is operated by a former classmate from CSAT. Facilities included a very nice classroom building with whiteboards, plasma TVs, kitchen, etc., plus a 100 yard flat range with a high berm on three sides. There was also a large, covered equipment staging and weapons cleaning area located near the range. Additional ranges and facilities are planned and should be an excellent resource for those of us in North Texas.

Conditions during the course were challenging. Temperatures were in the mid-90's with high humidity and intermittent thunderstorms. Given the pace of training, remaining hydrated was a real challenge for most students.

Overall Orientation

Jeff Gonzales draws on his years of experience with SEAL Team 4 to instruct students in the effective use of the carbine during close combat. All shooting is conducted at ranges of 50 yds or less. Jeff deliberately stresses shooters with aggressive time and accuracy standards, by constantly switching between a seemingly endless variety of drills, and by demanding laser-like focus on the firing line for about 10 hours per day with minimal breaks for reloading and rest.

Added to this mix is Jeff's status as a superb teacher. He is extremely personable and down to earth, has a great pedagogical sense, and a nearly photographic memory. Strolling the firing line during a drill, he has the talent to watch 12 students simultaneously and provide meaningful, actionable feedback to each shooter afterwards. Although he was alone as instructor of this course, I probably received more personalized attention than I did at CSAT, where the student/teacher ratio was more like 2:1. That is really saying something.

This particular weekend was divided into two parts. First, CC1 focused for two days on the basics of combat marksmanship, as well as Jeff's personal philosophy regarding basics such as fighting stance and weapon manipulation. Second, SMC offered an introduction to the controversial topic of shooting while moving.

jatx
06-30-2007, 11:18
Key Learnings

I am still digesting many of the lessons and realizations from the weekend. Training was fast and furious, and Jeff himself stated that we wouldn't really internalize everything for some time afterward.

The first photo below shows Jeff in what he terms the Universal Fighting Stance. In short, his preference is for using a single, slightly bladed stance for all fighting, whether it be with carbine, handgun, edged weapon or hard hands. This stance was the same as what I learned at CSAT, although Jeff advocates running the weapon with the stock almost fully collapsed and the butt mounted closer in toward the shooter's center line. While I was reluctant at first to alter my stock position, I found that it did not adversely affect my accuracy while stationary and actually improved accuracy and follow-though considerably while moving.

Fighting from the familiar Low Ready position was offered as an option, but we were encouraged to also experiment with the High Ready position during the course. This was a real revelation for me. The High Ready offers better leverage during a weapon grab scenario, provides the non-lethal option of muzzle jabbing the opponent, is less tiring to maintain during a long training session involving hundreds of mounts, and offers a mount that is just as fast (or faster) than Low Ready. I made the switch half way through the first day and never looked back. Photos two and three show Jeff in both ready positions.

Manipulation of the weapon after a failure, whether a jam or an empty magazine, was addressed with what Jeff terms his "power stroke". Essentially, he is attempting to limit the number of movements for which the shooter must develop muscle memory, eliminating the use of the bolt release. In the event of a failure, the shooter taps, tugs, rolls and racks (using the charging handle) with the weak hand. It took me awhile to catch onto this approach, especially rolling the weapon and working the charging handle with my left hand, but it does have a certain logic to it.

Another key learning involved transitioning to a secondary weapon. While I was previously trained to let my carbine drop straight down and draw, Jeff points out that a weapon dangling near our center line can make it difficult to move if the need arises (i.e., to move to cover or go hands-on with a prisoner). The solution offered was to sweep the weapon to our weak side with the weak hand so that it hangs with the mag well facing rearward. Whether using a single point or two point sling, this prevents the weapon from swinging or twisting and is a simple, effective solution.

The SMC module was also a great learning experience. Like many people, I have often been warned to stop and take my shots, and the corresponding logic has usually had to do with accuracy. Jeff offered some statistics about the number of gunfights involving either a moving shooter or target, and it became clear that this is a non-solution. Our toolkit simply must include the ability to make solid hits while in motion.

The approach in getting us to that point was crawl-walk-run. We began by simply taking a specific number of steps in the direction called before taking our shots, then progressed on to more complex drills involving movement in multiple random directions during a course of fire, box drills, and closing with the target from a variety of distances and at a variety of speeds.

It will come as no surprise to those of you who have previously developed this skill, but shooting on the move is hard work. Jeff teased me mercilessly for moving like a "tactical ballerina", which stemmed from my anxiety about tripping with a hot weapon, telling me that "you look great but might try moving like a normal person". :D

(Feel free to chuckle, I'm not perfect.)

Equally surprising, though, was the progress possible in just one day. About half of the students were still throwing at least one wild shot out of twenty (an automatic DQ under Jeff's scoring scheme), but I and the other half were able to achieve hit rates on the standard kill zone of 75-95%. End result, this is definitely something that requires more practice, but success is possible and it is a valuable tool for anyone that expects to fight with a rifle.

Finally, a couple quick notes on equipment issues. I was using my 14.5" POF for the course, and had the dissatisfaction of seeing it go TU on day one. The op rod sheared in two after fewer than 400 rds, preventing the gun from returning to full battery and the upper from being removed. After some fiddling, I finally got the op rod out and removed the upper, which I replaced with a 16" LMT of Jeff's. This upper had a new Aimpoint M4 mounted and functioned flawlessly for the rest of the course (not counting a few malfunctions caused by cheap reloads).

However, I am cross-eye dominant so shooting an Aimpoint with both eyes open causes me double vision and a POI shift regardless of mounting position. I do not have this problem with the Eotech (hence my purchase of the 553), but the end result was that I had to close one eye for all of my shots during the course. This didn't really slow my split times down, but could negatively affect SA in a more dynamic environment.

In closing, this was an intense, productive class and I learned an awful lot. I'd encourage anyone to train with TRICON if they have the chance, but remember that the courses are not for beginners and you'd better bring your A game to class. Fire away if you have any questions!

:lifter

82ndtrooper
06-30-2007, 12:02
Jeff teaches the same transition method that Larry Vickers used during the training in Fayettville. At first it seemed unatural to pull the primary weapon to the weak side with mag facing front to move to the secondary weapons system, but with practice it made more sense than to simple allow the primary to drop in front of you. with a 3 point sling it was virtually impossible without having to tug your weapon over to the left . Timing for this method with a 3 point sling was simply downright poor. I've now purchased a two point sling.

Nice AAR for Trident Concepts. Thanks for sharing.

jatx
06-30-2007, 12:06
Just to clarify, it does not sound like the same technique. Mag well is facing to the rear. The extra "twist" in the sling keeps the weapon stationary, not just out of the way. Try it!

82ndtrooper
06-30-2007, 12:25
Just to clarify, it does not sound like the same technique. Mag well is facing to the rear. The extra "twist" in the sling keeps the weapon stationary, not just out of the way. Try it!

Your correct ! I think I was trying to explain that with a 3 point sling it was virtually incapable of the "twist" placing the mag well facing rearward. My wording just wasn't right. With the two point sling, the transition that you described is what is actually the achievment in weapon placement during the transition to the sidearm.

Hope that clears it up.

Team Sergeant
06-30-2007, 17:43
Background

Since attending Paul Howe's course at CSAT in February, I have continued to work on my carbine fundamentals. On average,

Jeff Gonzales draws on his years of experience with SEAL Team 4 to instruct students in the effective use of the carbine during close combat.

Easy jatx.......

Most SF'ers have decades of experience, Jeff Gonzales spent what 5 years on a SEAL team?

I personally know what and how Paul Howe was trained, and Jeff Gonzales's training does not hold a candle to that.

Team Sergeant

The Reaper
06-30-2007, 17:56
I know both guys, and while Jeff G may be a decent firearms instructor, I would take Howe's tactical knowledge every time.

That man has killed a lot of bad guys on the two-way range.

Jeff G's knowledge is theoretical, IIRC.

TR

NousDefionsDoc
06-30-2007, 18:14
Good review. Sounds like you are getting a well-rounded view of the subject and some good training. Keep what works for you (after an honest evaluation) and work hard.

kgoerz
06-30-2007, 18:59
Those cheaper AR brands are OK for plinking every know and then. But try to put a couple thousand rounds thru one in a couple of days. Something will usually break. If you have to take a cheap AR to one of these courses bring a back up or make sure they have loners to use.
As far as the transition. Sweeping the weapon out of the way is nice. More then likely if your wearing a lot of gear and move around after transition. The AR is going to swing back to the front anyway.
For future schools. If you found a class and Instructor you liked. Stick with it, Just attend the same School again. Just push yourself harder. There really aren't a whole lot of ways to do it. Advanced training is just doing the Basics better. I know I don't push myself as hard alone as I do in a class. Heck, here at home I can just sit down if I get tired;)

Gene Econ
06-30-2007, 19:05
Key Learnings (Cut) I was using my 14.5" POF for the course, and had the dissatisfaction of seeing it go TU on day one. The op rod sheared in two after fewer than 400 rds, preventing the gun from returning to full battery and the upper from being removed.....However, I am cross-eye dominant so shooting an Aimpoint with both eyes open causes me double vision and a POI shift regardless of mounting position. I do not have this problem with the Eotech (hence my purchase of the 553), but the end result was that I had to close one eye for all of my shots during the course. This didn't really slow my split times down, but could negatively affect SA in a more dynamic environment.:lifter

jatx:

Man, and I thought OP Rods were the key to success with a semi-automatic rifle! He, he, he. Kind of sounds like the M-1 and M-14 days myself although we never broke one in half. Only bent them to the point where they would jam in the op-rod guide. Take note op-rod fans.

Try bringing the sight to your eyes instead of the other way around. Cant the carbine as needed. Just keep your head in a very natural position and bring the sight to your eyes. You may find this to do the trick for your cross eye dominent thingee. Now, I will say I have heard of left or right eye dominance but not cross eye dominance. Eye dominance is a learned trait believe it or not.

Question -- so what is the point about shooting someone five times in the chest and once in the head? If you figure that after two shots to the chest that the guy won't at least fall over, they why waste your time? Why not just shoot five times at the head to begin with? At those distances out of five shots at the head, at least two will hit and I bet the fellow will drop. Or use better ammo and shoot at the chest. Must be a SEAL thing.

I say this because when under stress, you will do what you train yourself to do.

Sounds like you had a great time though. Motivational to say the least.

How much did this guy charge you if you don't mind?

Gene

jatx
06-30-2007, 19:09
Gentlemen, I'm not sure what part of my comments caused offense. I wasn't setting up a SEAL vs. SF comparison, just giving the man credit due for being a really good teacher.

As far as tactics go, that is a whole 'nother discussion. I'm still working on becoming a good shooter. :D

The Reaper
06-30-2007, 19:20
Gentlemen, I'm not sure what part of my comments caused offense. I wasn't setting up a SEAL vs. SF comparison, just giving the man credit due for being a really good teacher.

As far as tactics go, that is a whole 'nother discussion. I'm still working on becoming a good shooter. :D

It isn't SEAL vs. SF.

It is gamer versus veteran.

TR

jatx
06-30-2007, 19:24
Man, and I thought OP Rods were the key to success with a semi-automatic rifle! He, he, he.

The op rod sheared off just below the "head" (for lack of a better term), which contacts the gas piston in POF's design. Upon examination, it appears that the rod met this head at very nearly a 90 degree angle, making it easier for the shearing effect to take place. Frank at POF also mentioned something about variability in their early heat treating batches. The replacements he sent (at no cost to me) appear to be radiused in that area, which I'm hoping will make them stronger.

Try bringing the sight to your eyes instead of the other way around. Cant the carbine as needed. Just keep your head in a very natural position and bring the sight to your eyes. You may find this to do the trick for your cross eye dominent thingee.

Thanks for the tip! I don't mean to say that I shoot cross-eyed, but rather that I am left eye dominant and right handed. I will work on your technique during my dry fire practice.

Question -- so what is the point about shooting someone five times in the chest and once in the head?

It's one of the ten or so standard drills that Paul Howe teaches. He does not like the combination of the 5.56 round and drugged-up bad guys, and this is his approximation of "shooting them to the ground".

How much did this guy charge you if you don't mind?

$550 for three days.

jatx
06-30-2007, 19:26
It isn't SEAL vs. SF.

It is gamer versus veteran.

TR

Roger that.

Gene Econ
06-30-2007, 20:30
Thanks for the tip! I don't mean to say that I shoot cross-eyed, but rather that I am left eye dominant and right handed. I will work on your technique during my dry fire practice. It's one of the ten or so standard drills that Paul Howe teaches. He does not like the combination of the 5.56 round and drugged-up bad guys, and this is his approximation of "shooting them to the ground". $550 for three days.

jatax:

Not a bad price per day compared to others.

Still strange to me about the five to the chest and one in the head thing. Seems to me that if you have so little trust for your carbine and ammo that you would either get something you trusted or forget the chest shooting and just go straight for the head with five or ten rounds.

1K rounds a month is very sufficient IMHO. Very much common sense.

Gene

Smokin Joe
07-02-2007, 03:44
jatax:

Not a bad price per day compared to others.

Still strange to me about the five to the chest and one in the head thing. Seems to me that if you have so little trust for your carbine and ammo that you would either get something you trusted or forget the chest shooting and just go straight for the head with five or ten rounds.

1K rounds a month is very sufficient IMHO. Very much common sense.

Gene

Gene,

I do not persume to speak for Paul Howe but... I recall from reading his book that he developed the 5 to the chest and 1 to the head because he had "serviced" a few BG's with 2 to the chest and they just stood there wondering what and just happened. For all intensive purposes they were most likely clinically dead but due to the "Qat" they remained standing still posing a threat. As such he came up with the failure drill of 5 to the chest and 1 to the head. I believe he mentioned something about the ammo at the time as well... something about the SS109 is pinging in my brain.

Again that is what I recall from his book.

HTH

Gene Econ
07-02-2007, 07:57
Gene, I do not persume to speak for Paul Howe but... I recall from reading his book that he developed the 5 to the chest and 1 to the head because he had "serviced" a few BG's with 2 to the chest and they just stood there wondering what and just happened. For all intensive purposes they were most likely clinically dead but due to the "Qat" they remained standing still posing a threat. As such he came up with the failure drill of 5 to the chest and 1 to the head. I believe he mentioned something about the ammo at the time as well... something about the SS109 is pinging in my brain.
I again that just what I recall from his book. HTH

"Joe":

I understand his theory and reasoning. Just being devils advocate is all. Also being a wise guy. He, he, he. Not sure if anything will be effective if the guy is totally out of it on drugs.

Gene

Razor
07-02-2007, 16:03
Not sure if anything will be effective if the guy is totally out of it on drugs.

I dunno Gene, your "5 to the head" technique sounds like it may do the job, unless you're fighting in Ichabod Crane's neck o' the woods. :)

x SF med
07-02-2007, 17:12
Expanding boattail could reduce that to 2 in the brain housing group - only because there's not much left to aim at with the last 3 rounds. With milspec ball - 3 to the dome should get it done too, and every 3rd or 4th BG is a freebie on your ammo supply - bonus BG's as it were.:rolleyes:

NousDefionsDoc
07-02-2007, 17:42
Shooting heads when both you and the head are moving is easier said than done.

Gene Econ
07-02-2007, 21:52
Shooting heads when both you and the head are moving is easier said than done.

Doc:

Roger that but if you believe your ammo will not be effective in the chest (which I don't believe) then why waste your time? I am also being a Wisenheimer. Partially serious and partially not serious.

Blast the guy in the chest and let physics do the rest.

Has a ring to it, don't you think?

Gene

Gene Econ
07-02-2007, 21:55
I dunno Gene, your "5 to the head" technique sounds like it may do the job, unless you're fighting in Ichabod Crane's neck o' the woods. :)

Razor:

Headless Horseman? CRS myself. Age you know -- just like you old boy!
Ahhh, the Classics. Kind of like the old classic "use a bigger hammer", or "BFFI".

Gene

Guy
07-02-2007, 22:27
Clip-On Knee Pads

I loved them until, a buddy decided to borrow them.:eek:

Stay safe.

jatx
07-03-2007, 07:33
Clip-On Knee Pads

I loved them until, a buddy decided to borrow them.:eek:

Stay safe.

Those look interesting. I'm using the Skydex ACU inserts and they are awesome!