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the squid
05-31-2007, 17:09
Hello all, as was said in my first post, I'm currently AD navy with about two months left until my EAOS.

And as to my question, I have searched, and if I haven't searched hard enough then I apologize . . . but:

I'm planning on going back to college and keeping my nose in the books and bringing my GPA back up, once I do that, I will be eligible to sign an ROTC scholarship.

My question is, right now I've got mucho admiration and respect for the men that make up Army SF, and I would one day like to be among them:

So upon graduation, is turning down a comission and going 18x a possibility, given the fact that the Army would have at that point invested a great deal of money into a future Platoon Commander?

Either possibility, be it platoon commander or SF NCO would be a great privledge and responsibility, and I realize that I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but I would like to take this into consideration before I obligate myself to an Army comission if what I would rather be is an SF NCO.

Any and all replies, be they criticism or otherwise, would be appreciated.

Thanks.

RTK
05-31-2007, 17:41
Hello all, as was said in my first post, I'm currently AD navy with about two months left until my EAOS.

And as to my question, I have searched, and if I haven't searched hard enough then I apologize . . . but:

I'm planning on going back to college and keeping my nose in the books and bringing my GPA back up, once I do that, I will be eligible to sign an ROTC scholarship.

My question is, right now I've got mucho admiration and respect for the men that make up Army SF, and I would one day like to be among them:

So upon graduation, is turning down a comission and going 18x a possibility, given the fact that the Army would have at that point invested a great deal of money into a future Platoon Commander?

Either possibility, be it platoon commander or SF NCO would be a great privledge and responsibility, and I realize that I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but I would like to take this into consideration before I obligate myself to an Army comission if what I would rather be is an SF NCO.

Any and all replies, be they criticism or otherwise, would be appreciated.

Thanks.

TS, AM, Razor, COL Jack and Reaper, I know this isn't a thread I'd typically be involved in, but it's an Officer question, and I'm pretty sure it's in line with what both of you are thinking anyways.... If not, I'll delete.


Once you sign an ROTC scholorship you're under contract to become an Army Officer.

If I'm reading this right, your intention is to determine the feasibility to break the contract under the premise that the Army invested a lot of money in you so you're in the position to put the Army between a rock and a hard place. This would make the contract worthless in the first place.

Additionally, it would put into question the integrity of any individual who entered into that contract at the beginning. And if integrity is an issue, we don't need you as an officer in the Army. I'm pretty sure the QPs wouldn't want you either.

the squid
05-31-2007, 17:58
TS, AM, Razor, COL Jack and Reaper, I know this isn't a thread I'd typically be involved in, but it's an Officer question, and I'm pretty sure it's in line with what both of you are thinking anyways.... If not, I'll delete.


Once you sign an ROTC scholorship you're under contract to become an Army Officer.

If I'm reading this right, your intention is to determine the feasibility to break the contract under the premise that the Army invested a lot of money in you so you're in the position to put the Army between a rock and a hard place. This would make the contract worthless in the first place.

Additionally, it would put into question the integrity of any individual who entered into that contract at the beginning. And if integrity is an issue, we don't need you as an officer in the Army. I'm pretty sure the QPs wouldn't want you either.


I appreciate the input, sir.

The thought had occured to me that it wouldn't be the most honorable move to sign an ROTC contract with the intention of renigging on it to go 18X, even if that were a possibility.

And keeping in mind that honor and integrity extend to all facets of life, not just the situations which benefit us, I leave now with the idea that should I sign an ROTC contract, I sign it with the intention of making good on it.

Thanks for the correction.

lksteve
05-31-2007, 19:23
[QUOTE=the squid]The thought had occured to me that it wouldn't be the most honorable move to sign an ROTC contract with the intention of renigging on it /QUOTE]didn't go to ROTC, went to OCS...my older son went to ROTC, however...

that said, your odds of getting commissioned are better than your odds of making it through SFQC...nothing personal, that's just the way it is...

life has plenty of forks in the road...do you want to be an officer or do you want to be an SF soldier...? nothing easy along either path...

BTW, this is not new ground...this has to be the bazillionth time this question has been asked...

the squid
05-31-2007, 19:38
[QUOTE=the squid]The thought had occured to me that it wouldn't be the most honorable move to sign an ROTC contract with the intention of renigging on it /QUOTE]didn't go to ROTC, went to OCS...my older son went to ROTC, however...

that said, your odds of getting commissioned are better than your odds of making it through SFQC...nothing personal, that's just the way it is...

life has plenty of forks in the road...do you want to be an officer or do you want to be an SF soldier...? nothing easy along either path...

BTW, this is not new ground...this has to be the bazillionth time this question has been asked...

Well sir, should I decide that being an SF soldier is something I want more than being an officer, I will do so fully willing to accept the consequences should I not make it through.

No disrespect to the officer corps intended, but should I decide to sign the ROTC contract, I want it to be because it is what I want, and not because it was the easier of the two paths. A platoon deserves their lieutenants full attention, and too much is at stake for a PC to spend his time wondering "what if."

Either way, sir, I appreciate your frankness, and your time, in spite of my redundancy.

lksteve
05-31-2007, 19:55
No disrespect to the officer corps intended, but should I decide to sign the ROTC contract, I want it to be because it is what I want...understand...be prepared to have some of these decisions made for you...you may not get a chance to attend SFAS...you may get commissioned and find youself in a branch you didn't choose...the choice you have in front of you is which path to take...after that, it's up to you and the needs of the Army...

the squid
05-31-2007, 20:01
understand...be prepared to have some of these decisions made for you...you may not get a chance to attend SFAS...you may get commissioned and find youself in a branch you didn't choose...the choice you have in front of you is which path to take...after that, it's up to you and the needs of the Army...

Roger that, sir.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-31-2007, 20:20
[QUOTE=the squid][QUOTE=lksteve]
than being an officerQUOTE]

Why would you want to be an officer?

The Reaper
05-31-2007, 20:23
No, you will not be allowed to take a highly sought after, highly coveted, highly compensated MOS if you refuse to accept your commission after signing a contract and taking an oath, unless you are willing to repay the Army for your education then and there.

The fact that you ask, IMHO, means that you are not SF material. As we have noted repeatedly, we cannot teach ethics or morals to people without them. I strongly recommend that you NOT come to the Army, especially SF.

Best of luck in whatever branch you wind up in.

TR

the squid
05-31-2007, 20:31
[QUOTE=the squid][QUOTE=lksteve]
than being an officerQUOTE]

Why would you want to be an officer?

I joined the Navy with the intention of "getting away" and then realized that service to something higher than oneself is one of the most honorable things a man can accomplish. I see so many people who float through life taking everything for granted, taking more than they need, and never contributing back one iota of what they've taken. I do not want to be one of those people.

As I see it, sir, the soldiers/sailors/marines/airmen who voluntarily forfeight many of their personal liberties and much of their personal time are some of the best we've got. Not because of aesthetic or intellectual qualities that society values, but because of their selflessness. And that goes triple for those who risk their lives down range in the defense of our country.

And I would consider it a privledge to lead such men.

No disrespect intended sir, but I have seen officers I wouldn't follow into a bathroom, and I have seen officers that I would follow into the pits of hell.

And I believe, sir, that with a lot of hardwork, and a little bit of humility, if I could be one of the latter, than when I'm sixty five years old, I can look back and say, "Yeah, I did that."

the squid
05-31-2007, 20:35
No, you will not be allowed to take a highly sought after, highly coveted, highly compensated MOS if you refuse to accept your commission after signing a contract and taking an oath, unless you are willing to repay the Army for your education then and there.

The fact that you ask, IMHO, means that you are not SF material. As we have noted repeatedly, we cannot teach ethics or morals to people without them. I strongly recommend that you NOT come to the Army, especially SF.

Best of luck in whatever branch you wind up in.

TR

Roger that sir.

Up until now I hadn't realized that it would be an issue.

Now I realize that the question was short sighted, as I had initially just thought that should I decide to turn down the comission, my honor would still be intact by serving my time and paying back my scholarship in the enlisted ranks. I am at fault for not at first considering the notion that the investment that the Army makes in ROTC cadets is not simply in making a "soldier" but also in a "leader."

lksteve
05-31-2007, 20:36
And I believe, sir, that with a lot of hardwork, and a little bit of humility, if I could be one of the latter, than when I'm sixty five years old, I can look back and say, "Yeah, I did that."being able to say "Yeah, I did that." when you are 65 is a lousy reason to do anything...

you are digging a hole...put the shovel down...

the squid
05-31-2007, 20:38
being able to say "Yeah, I did that." when you are 65 is a lousy reason to do anything...

you are digging a hole...put the shovel down...

Wilco.

NousDefionsDoc
05-31-2007, 20:39
Why would you want to be an officer?
LOL - you would have made a helluva CSM Sir.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-31-2007, 20:41
[QUOTE=And I believe, sir, that with a lot of hardwork, and a little bit of humility, if I could be one of the latter, than when I'm sixty five years old, I can look back and say, "Yeah, I did that."[/QUOTE]

Well actually, if the truth be known, it will not be your tired 65 year old ass that will be the judge of what you did or did not do but the soldiers who have measured you from the day you pinned on your butter bar until the day you hung up your ruck.

the squid
05-31-2007, 20:46
Well actually, if the truth be known, it will not be your tired 65 year old ass that will be the judge of what you did or did not do but the soldiers who have measured you from the day you pinned on your butter bar until the day you hung up your ruck.

Yes sir.

blue02hd
05-31-2007, 21:07
Squid,

I hate to point this out, but your 3 to 4 years in the Navy has done very little to prepare you for a combat arms unit in the Army. Your post has you sitting on the fence between an SF NCO and a "Platoon Commander", which I am here to tell you friend, are no where close on the map. It has been pointed out, that your odds are better at pinning on 2nd Lt bars than that long tab.

That being said, as a young Army Officer, the current state of affairs will have you leading seasoned NCO's ( or even worse, newly issued inexperienced troops) in combat shortly after Benning turns the fire hose off from which you will be drinking from. You will need to have stronger motivation than a simple fuzzy moment of reflection at the age of 65, as you put it: "I did that". Drop the "I" from your vocabulary, because it is not about you, it's about the men you are responsible for.

I am afraid you may have a hard time keeping your head above water, so you may want to concentrate on becoming the best combat soldier you possibly can before you worry about the honor and priviledge of leading anyone anywhere, and yes, that includes to the chow hall.

It has been, and always will be about your platoon.

And as it was said earlier, this was the easier path of the two for you to follow.

the squid
05-31-2007, 21:15
Squid,

I hate to point this out, but your 3 to 4 years in the Navy has done very little to prepare you for a combat arms unit in the Army. Your post has you sitting on the fence between an SF NCO and a "Platoon Commander", which I am here to tell you friend, are no where close on the map. It has been pointed out, that your odds are better at pinning on 2nd Lt bars than that long tab.

That being said, as a young Army Officer, the current state of affairs will have you leading seasoned NCO's ( or even worse, newly issued inexperienced troops) in combat shortly after Benning turns the fire hose off from which you will be drinking from. You will need to have stronger motivation than a simple fuzzy moment of reflection at the age of 65, as you put it: "I did that". Drop the "I" from your vocabulary, because it is not about you, it's about the men you are responsible for.

I am afraid you may have a hard time keeping your head above water, so you may want to concentrate on becoming the best combat soldier you possibly can before you worry about the honor and priviledge of leading anyone anywhere, and yes, that includes to the chow hall.

It has been, and always will be about your platoon.

And as it was said earlier, this was the easier path of the two for you to follow.


Sir, thank you.

It was never my intention to convey that it was or ever will be about "me", and if that was the impression I gave off, well, then that's my mistake.

And at the risk of beating a dead horse, this will be my last post on this thread and I'm grateful for the reaming, as I will take this as an opportunity to better myself.

Over and out.