PDA

View Full Version : El Ejercito de Los Estados Unidos-or US ARMY?


Eagle5US
05-14-2007, 13:49
What language should the Army and other Armed Forces of the United States utilize? We are a diverse group of citizens and "striving to be citizens" from across our Nation and territories-seemingly united in our cause and belief as dictated by, if nothing else, our oath of enlistment.

Army Regulation 600-20, Army Command Policy, has a small blurb in Chapter 4, paragraph 13. So aptly named, the Army Language Policy. I quote from the regulation:

4–13. Army language policy
English is the operational language of the Army. Soldiers must maintain sufficient proficiency in English to perform their military duties. Their operational communications must be understood by everyone who has an official need to know their content, and, therefore, must normally be in English. However, commanders may not require Soldiers to use English unless such use is clearly necessary and proper for the performance of military functions. Accordingly, commanders may not require the use of English for personal communications that are unrelated to military functions.

What this means to me is that in the general performance of official duties, personnel in uniform should speak English. This of course does not apply to dealings in foreign nations where utilization of another language is necessary for official duties etc.....
Further, in a service members off time, if they choose to speak another language-no issue. I have no difficulty with this particular interpretation, as it is my own.
We have several units on our FOB from Puerto Rico and other predominantly Spanish speaking areas (USAR / NG units)...they come to the aid station QUITE FREQUENTLY and very often our medical staff has to wait until the unit sends up a translator because the soldiers cannot, or will not, speak English. I have become quite fed up with this situation and have refused to be the "translator" any longer.
The other day, one of their medics came in with a patient who I know speaks English because I treated him for a VERY minor / superficial GSW about 3 weeks ago. Graze wound, no sutures required etc....the medic brought him BACK in for visit number 7 since his incident and he refused to interact with my medical staff in English, preferring instead to speak Spanish to his medic and have her relay the information. I considered this as part of official military duties, not personal conversation, and stated it as such. Further, I told them that while wearing the US Army uniform and presenting in my aid station as either a medic or a patient, they would speak English because the remainder of my staff didn't speak Spanish and had no way of knowing what was being said.

So TODAY...I get notified of my pending EO complaint. I was confronted by their unit's leadership because I "wasn't nice to their soldier" when I told them they would speak English around my staff and while performing official duties. Their argument was that the conversation was a private matter and therefor protected by the language policy.
I asked him exactly how anyone ELSE was supposed to know the conversation was a private matter who didn't speak Spanish? For all my staff knew, they were being belittled and berated and were the butt of unfriendly comments. After all, who was going to say otherwise if they weren't fluent in another language?
I know the complaint will go nowhere because the medic was acting in an official capacity and translating the patients words. This is not my concern or the point of this topic.


I'd like to offer this up for discussion because this is disturbing to me. Perhaps my views are antiquated, or just plain wrong?

I speak Spanish. I have worked in countries all over the world. When I am working someplace else, I make every attempt to learn as much about the language and culture as I can-because that is a part of that nation's identity and their populations identity. I know more than 50, but less than 75 words in Arabic from my time here, and I utilize them to interact with the locals. If nothing else, they get a kick out of it:rolleyes: But, if I were to join their Army, I would be expected to know and use their language. I do not think this request unreasonable.

I have a very negative view regarding illegal immigration and it's effects nationwide. I realize that these soldiers are NOT illegal immigrants, but also that they are making little to no demonstrated effort to assimilate themselves into the language portion of the culture of the United States. This then bleeds into service in the Armed Forces outside their own secluded little area back home; where speaking only in Spanish is acceptable. Some of them have even produced their deployment medical record....all forms and entries are in Spanish.

So, I open the floor to points of view and opinion.
Eagle

Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-14-2007, 14:00
You are obviously a better person than am I. I think I would do a little play on words and post a large sign that reads: "Those that cannot/will not speak English are obviously suffering from Hepatitis Si and will report to the rear of the dispensary for a cold GG shot.:D

The Reaper
05-14-2007, 14:07
The 82nd used to be an ESL organization at one point. I think they solved that problem.:D

I agree with you that when wearing a US Army uniform and operating in an official capacity on a US military facility, soldiers should speak English.

You might ask them how the got into the US Army, since all of the schools in PR teach English, and the Army requires a certain level of proficiency to join. You can pretty much bet that the drills they had did not put up with the "No hablo Engles" BS. US Army soldiers reporting to your Aid Station should find a "speak English to the staff or no treatment" policy in effect.

I could care less what they speak in their off duty hours. On duty, you speak English. Medical care is serious business. Proper diagnosis and treatment requires good dialogue between the practioner and the patient. Otherwise, serious misunderstandings could result. Like believing that all patients refusing to speak English have a serious social disease requiring 2.4 million units in each cheek. A DRE on every visit. And the consequent loss of shot records, requiring frequent revaccinations. I would say that patient privacy concerns should also prohibit translators between soldiers of the same military.

The Commander needs to publish a policy letter reiterating AR 600-20, requiring English be spoken during duty hours, and offering remedial classes for those who are unable to speak English at a 2/2 level or better.

How about asking your CoC to support the Army policy and go to the PR CoC requesting their support? Soldiers not complying should be counseled, retrained, and if willfully not complying, UCMJed for ART. 89 DISRESPECT TOWARD SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER, ART. 90. ASSAULTING OR WILLFULLY DISOBEYING SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER, and ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION. You are a commissioned officer, if your CoC fails to support you in compliance with the AR, request a transfer.

TR

Eagle5US
05-14-2007, 14:11
The Commander needs to publish a policy letter reiterating AR 600-20, requiring English be spoken during duty hours, and offering remedial classes for those who are unable to speak English at a 2/2 level or better.

TR
Sir,

THIS is a most outstanding idea. I do believe that I will embark on this mission tomorrow.:lifter

Eagle

The Reaper
05-14-2007, 14:15
Sir,

THIS is a most outstanding idea. I do believe that I will embark on this mission tomorrow.:lifter

Eagle

Do you want to volunteer to teach it in your spare time?:D

Hey, how did you wind up deploying with this leg unit, anyway, 754 brother?:munchin

TR

BMT (RIP)
05-14-2007, 14:24
Way back when I was a DS in a Basic Tng Reg't, that problem was easy to solve. I made the best one that could HABLO their squad leader. Smoked his ass if the job wasn't done right.
Time for on post pass, I would put up a list for those wanting a pass. They were always first in line. Sorry no HABLO I can't let you out of the Co. area. Next mornin' they all spoke good English.

BMT

NousDefionsDoc
05-14-2007, 14:28
This shouldn't even be a point of discussion as far as I'm concerned. Les digo otra hijueputa cosa también, si la gente no puede hablar como es, no deben de estar en el ejercito. La mierda ya está el reglamentación, lo que falta es castigar la primara marica que la viola. Para mí, es una falta de respeto a hablar en español o cualquier otro idioma que los comandantes no pueden entender. Dios sabe lo que están diciendo.

Eagle5US
05-14-2007, 14:31
To be honest Sir,

I called it like I saw it with someone who had significant influence over my immediate future. Though it was the right thing to do, I am now living the consequences of voicing the truth:D

This is very temporary though. I have been making contacts. My reputation is solid in the community it seems. For that I am both humble and greatfull.

As far as teaching.....no friggin thanks.:boohoo

Eagle

Ambush Master
05-14-2007, 18:30
This shouldn't even be a point of discussion as far as I'm concerned. Les digo otra hijueputa cosa también, si la gente no puede hablar como es, no deben de estar en el ejercito. La mierda ya está el reglamentación, lo que falta es castigar la primara marica que la viola. Para mí, es una falta de respeto a hablar en español o cualquier otro idioma que los comandantes no pueden entender. Dios sabe lo que están diciendo.

Sounds like NDD just volunteered to come over and lend a hand/BOOT for you!!!:D

Peregrino
05-14-2007, 19:40
Try the FFL method - hand them an English-Spanish dictionary and treat IAW whatever they translate. Ought to be "good for whatever ails 'em". A la otra mano - estoy de acuerdo completo con NDD. Los vale vergas deberan aprender a hablar Ingles. Si no lo hagan bien, sus lideres tienen el DEBER de mandar entrenamiento extra en Ingles - tal como todos sus subordinados tienen un mando adequado. Supuestamente no es un castigo ni esta en contra del intento del reglamiento si tiene un proposito militar - tal como La Escuela del Soldado. NDD - How do you get the Spanish characters on an English keyboard? My .02 - Peregrino

NousDefionsDoc
05-14-2007, 19:46
There is a Spanish spell checker for Firefox, but it don't work real good. I usually type it in word and then paste it.

I'm sure some smart ass will now come on here and tell us all how there is a better way and I'm doing it wrong...

Great idea about remedial training.

Kyobanim
05-14-2007, 19:55
There is a Spanish spell checker for Firefox, but it don't work real good. I usually type it in word and then paste it.

I'm sure some smart ass will now come on here and tell us all how there is a better way and I'm doing it wrong...

Great idea about remedial training.

Well, there is a way. . .

. . . can I be the smart ass? :p

Peregrino
05-14-2007, 20:08
Well, there is a way. . .

. . . can I be the smart ass? :p

Only if it's comprehensible to the average (ME :p ) knuckledragger. I don't do as much Spanish language work as I ought to to maintain proficiency; but, when I do I would like to "do it right." Peregrino

NousDefionsDoc
05-14-2007, 20:15
Split it please. We're off-topic on Eagle's thread.

Ambush Master
05-14-2007, 20:23
While working in Puerto Rico a few years back, the "Locals" would always revert to Spanish when I entered the area. After being down there a while, I could understand and read more than I could speak, having had 4 years of Latin and beeing around Hispanics all of my life. One afternoon, I answered the phone in the Supervisors Office and called to him in the following manner: "Jose.....while waving my hand towards him....ding wa lade!!" He came over and asked me what I was trying to say in Spanish and I replied: I was not "attempting" to say something in Spanish, I was talking to you the way I would have spoken to one of my Rhade tribesmen!! He said "Who are they??!" and I replied that they were the Mountain People in Viet Nam and if his crew didn't start speaking in English, that I would start telling him what needed to be done each day in "Rhade" and then jumping his ass the next day because it hadn't been done!!!:D

It worked!!

Later
Martin

The Reaper
05-14-2007, 20:39
I agree.

Most of them speak at least passable English and do it just to screw with the gringos or because they are more comfortable doing it.

At least they don't normally laugh at you when you try to speak their language, like the Phrench do.

TR

groundup
05-14-2007, 23:32
With all of the ESL Soldiers I have met, the only ones that I have met that were hard to deal with were PR. Like the French, Arabs, and French Canadians they only speak English when it suits them. Then again, I have no idea what they are saying in LA, US Virgin Islands, and in some of those other backwoods states - so I guess Spanish goes along with that. It is very annoying when they speak Spanish when in uniform. I try to learn as much as possible from them, as well as any other language I come across. It doesn't make up for them disrespecting (IMO that is what it is) the US, the uniform, and Americans.

HOLLiS
05-15-2007, 00:07
groundup, I very much support the notion of having people in school learn a second language. One study pointed out that a person will learn more about their own language when learning another. It would avoid those incidents that you mention. A lot of multilingual people know most "Stereo typical Americans" do not speak a second language. I was fortunate as a kid, mom spoke a number of languages. I spoke three. I had friends who were 1st and 2nd generation German who did not speak German. Adults would go to German so the kids would not know what was talking about. Is it rude?

I enjoyed the story the AM told. When I was in RVN My partner and I was setting next to some Viet-Namese. They were talking about us. My partner spoke both dialects of Viet-Namese, North and South. After a while he responded to a comment they made. The look on their faces was worth it. They asked who he was. He stated to them he was Bac Biet (NVA). They look at me, Obviously a Marine, and asked, "what about him?" He told them not to say anything, I might kill him.

I think it is pretty universal people will do this sort of thing, switching to a native language so others can not hear. It can be done for all sorts of reason.

groundup
05-15-2007, 01:08
I agree, I think we should all learn another language. To your question if it is rude - it depends on the situation. I recently went to court and most of the courtroom did not speak English - that is rude. I spent 3 hours waiting to speak to the prosecutor because we waited on translators. Speaking another language to talk about another person in their presence is VERY rude. Switching to another language when in conversation with another person is rude. Using words that someone doesn't understand to make them feel stupid is rude. That doesn't just go with other language, but English as well. If you don't need to use big words to express your point, don't.

Kind of funny how people react when they think you don't know the language. When I was dealing with Arabic speakers, they would talk about me and say things. I didn't know much Arabic, but I learned a lot from them. They would start blabbing off, and then I say something in Arabic and they go in to a frenzy. They start asking each other questions like "is the baby Lebanese" (I have a young face) and asking if I was a spy or something. I would say those common words that you learn in every language - please, thank you, good, bad, hello, good bye, open, shut, money, "how do you say ___", etc

mike-munich
05-15-2007, 04:35
I had friends who were 1st and 2nd generation German who did not speak German. Adults would go to German so the kids would not know what was talking about. Is it rude?


LOL, I like that. I would do the same thing, if somebody hasn´t the need to know (like the kids). If we don´t want northern Germans or non-native German speakers to understand us we switch to the local Bavarian dialect. They only catch 20% of that. The official language in Germany is " German high" and that should be spoken for official business within the PD. Just like English within the US Army.

Radar
05-15-2007, 06:46
Directly from DOD Regs...

Enlistment into any branch of the US Armed Forces, by citizens of other countries is limited to those foreign nationals who are legally residing in the United States and possess an Immigration and Naturalization Service Alien Registration Card, commonly known as a 'Green Card' (INS Form I-151/551). Applicants must speak, write and read English fluently.


Completar cualquier documento militar oficial en un texto extranjero es incorrecto.

Para hablar en un idioma extranjero en un ambiente médico donde está vital la comunicación y todo el personal médico no entiende es incorrecto.

Traer una queja para que el ser mandado hable en inglés es incorrecto.

No hay nada más decir sobre esto.

Oh, sorry, forgot myself...

To fill in any official military documents in a foreign text is wrong.

To speak in a foreign language in a medical environment where communication is vital and all medical staff does not understand is wrong.

To bring a complaint for being instructed to speak in english is wrong.

There is nothing more to say about this.

x SF med
05-15-2007, 11:44
Even Le Legion d'Etrangere de France requires ALL recruits to speak phrench while on duty or when conversing with officers, hmmm, I believe there are consequences for not parlaying the froggy in the Legion. If the phrench can do it, why can't we?

Ret10Echo
05-15-2007, 12:19
Even Le Legion d'Etrangere de France requires ALL recruits to speak phrench while on duty or when conversing with officers, hmmm, I believe there are consequences for not parlaying the froggy in the Legion. If the phrench can do it, why can't we?

I'm sure many members of congress would love for us to speak only phrench.