View Full Version : Results of lower standards?
Sionnach
04-27-2007, 14:04
Is this what happens when you lower the standards?
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Apr27/0,4670,SoldiersHomeAttack,00.html
11 Soldiers Arrested in Home Invasion
Friday, April 27, 2007
WATERTOWN, N.Y. — Eleven Fort Drum soldiers burst into a fellow soldier's home and attacked him and his wife, kicking him repeatedly and punching her in the face, authorities said Friday.
The attack late Wednesday was in retaliation for the earlier arrest of another soldier, state police said. The 11 were charged with burglary and one also was charged with second-degree assault for allegedly hitting the soldier's wife with a bottle.
Carl Laws, 22, and his wife, Emily Hernandez, 21, were released from Samaritan Medical Center after treatment for multiple cuts and bruises.
Additional charges are possible after the case is presented to a grand jury, state police investigator Randy Pound said.
The soldier who had been arrested earlier did not take part in the attack, Pound said. That arrest stemmed from a complaint made by the couple involving the alleged violation of an order of protection, authorities said. No further details were given.
Fort Drum spokesman Lt. Col. Paul Fitzpatrick confirmed that all 11 soldiers are members of the 10th Mountain Division stationed there.
Although the investigation and prosecution are being handled by civilian authorities, Army officials will review the case.
"We support the investigation," Fitzpatrick said. "The Army does not tolerate this kind of conduct. ... It is totally out of character with our training and values."
Charged with burglary were Tyson Tucker, 20; Martin Johnson, 22; Jason Cofield, 25; Erica Hodges, 19; Shavonn Wynne, 22; Vianka DelCid, 19; Tyrone Lihpai, 22; James Skinner, 27; Carlton Causey, 28; Randi Bush, 18; and Shalota Williams, 22. Wynne was also charged with second-degree assault for allegedly hitting the soldier's wife.
Williams was turned over to her military superiors; the other 10 were ordered held in the Jefferson County jail on $5,000 bail each.
Fort Drum is about 75 miles north of Syracuse. The 17,000-member 10th Mountain Division, which is based there, has been one of the mainstays of Army deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Fitzpatrick said he did not believe any of the arrested soldiers had been recently deployed to either place.
:mad: This just disgusts me. It's a damn shame when soldiers need to think about getting a CCW to protect themselves from other soldiers.
ETA: Looks like Shalota has a myspace page... I'm not a fan of Myspacers. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=31961061
Mz. Balla? I don't get it. I'll take a small army of professionals over a large army of wannabe thugs any day.
The Reaper
04-27-2007, 14:23
Yo, its a thug Army life, word?:munchin
Peace, Ooooouuut!
TR
I wonder how many of the "gang" are looking at the charges and wondering "How could I have been so stupid? What was I thinking?" and how many are thinking "So what." Don't mater, they can all kiss the Army good by.
Hard to read between the lines but it appears to have been over a woman. I wonder about the details of the court order. Best to not remember their names until you're over 25, and first name only after that until you're over 30.
Pete
The Reaper
04-27-2007, 15:03
After seeing rappers defend their use of words much more serious than the ones that got Imus fired, and then to state that they would not turn in a serial killer living next door because of their "gangsta code" this in no way surprises me.
I believe that they thought the Army would tolerate their behavior and do not care if they are chaptered out.
They wuz keepin' it real, Sahge.:rolleyes:
Check out the myspace page. Maybe the Army should start reviewing these.
TR
The Army does not tolerate this kind of conduct
HA! If I could only count the number of times... In fairness, I haven't worked at FDNY (and hopefully never will), but if it's anything like here the only reason these guys even SAW a D-Cell was because this was off post. Had it been in post housing, they would have been apprehended, processed, and released to their units about 2 hours later...
Williams was turned over to her military superiors
Which usually means restricted to quarters pending an article 15 (and thats if they even post someone to make sure they stay in their room).
The only people I know that haven't been deployed at least once are the new privates we just got in, so I would guess these are the same, straight out of the Army's "new and improved" basic training.
Monsoon65
04-27-2007, 15:51
The problem is that jail time for these pukes is just giving them the "street cred" they want and crave.
How come everytime I see one of these gangbanger wannabe's, I think of Hooper X in the movie "Chasing Amy"?
incommin
04-27-2007, 18:12
Gang member across the nation are joining the military services "to get training" ........ then they get out, come home, and teach the boys on the street......
I guess you can take the boy out of the gang but can you take the "gang" out of the boy??????
Jim
Leozinho
04-27-2007, 19:34
Gang member across the nation are joining the military services "to get training" ........ then they get out, come home, and teach the boys on the street......
I guess you can take the boy out of the gang but can you take the "gang" out of the boy??????
Jim
People have been saying this for years, but I'm not convinced. Weren't folks worried that black vets returning from Vietnam were going to join the Black Panthers en masse and use their combat experience to wreak havoc back here? (I imagine some did, but not at the levels some predicted.)
Do gang members join the Army? Sure. And it's probably easier now with the lax enlistment standards.
But is there a concerted effort by gangs to send members to the Army and come back and train other gang members? Well, if there is, they aren't being very smart about it. The last soldiers that I saw that fit the look and profile of a gang member were at my basic training, which was exclusively for support MOS's. How much tactical experience they are gaining as pay clerks and supply clerks is questionable.
Maybe I have a sheltered view, having spent most of my time here at Ft Bragg at SWCS and seeing our squared away neighbors in the 82nd. It could be different in leg units.
But I'd wager that those involve in the assault were not in combat MOS's.
"Mz. Balla"??? I'd think that it's kinda hard to "ball" on her E-3 (probably about to be E-1 or unemployed) pay. Myspace... I use mine as email with pictures. It's entertaining to see people that use it for more.
I have only about 3.5 years of service and still remember how my peers generally conducted themselves as new soldiers. The difference is noticable. It's getting worse, but I'd say that for the most part, we still get quality people coming into my unit. The problem we have is that they come onto a short tour after being through 6 months to a year of zero discipline basic and AIT, so if they started off borderline, they're so far in the gutter that by the time you correct whatever they're screwing up, they'll be halfway gone. These are kids that at least have high GT scores.
The Army keeps "rollin" along... but a lot of good people will want to "roll" somewhere else.
I believe that the general makeup of the Army gets better and worse with the economy, wars, many factors affecting it. The biggest thing hurting it these days has got to be the mentality that most American youth are growing up with these days... which has been flogged to death on this board so many times.
futureSoldier
04-27-2007, 20:08
From talking to people who are at or just returning from basic, it seems that fights are quite common there. Maybe it has always been this way and is something that I never thought of (I always thought the main worry would be the DS), but a lot of the time "thug" or "wanna be gangster" is in the description of the people fighting.
Joe
ETA: Looks like Shalota has a myspace page... I'm not a fan of Myspacers.
Is there any possible way I can have that vision medically removed from my Brain?
incommin
04-28-2007, 05:39
"Weren't folks worried that black vets returning from Vietnam were going to join the Black Panthers en masse and use their combat experience to wreak havoc back here? (I imagine some did, but not at the levels some predicted."
Never heard that before.....never heard a black soldier say anything kind about the Black Panthers.
Jim
..Never heard that before.....never heard a black soldier say anything kind about the Black Panthers.
Jim
IIRC this was around 68-73ish. Back during the big riots, Burn Baby Burn, and a few years after. It was not the soldiers but the Black Panthers making the "call to arms". It was to try and round up all the disgrunted black VN vets. While it made a small splash here and there it really didn't come to pass.
It appears the VN vet who got out just wanted to get on with his life.
Pete
It's a shame that this type of thing goes on. I've seen it from one of my drill sergeants in basic all the way to Ft. Stewart, when a week before I left post there was a drive by shooting at one of the barracks.
To echo someone else's previous comments, I agree that most of this stems from the 'support' field. I know I've dealt with some mechanics and supply personnel that weren't even trying to hide it. But never from the infantry or armor guys I worked with. Suppose it has something to do with the discipline, or lack there of. :rolleyes:
How much tactical experience they are gaining as pay clerks and supply clerks is questionable.
Zilch. I promise.
I agree that most of this stems from the 'support' field.
I'm 99% sure this event certainly was because of the involvement of female "soldiers."
Hell, two guys got led out of welcome center on Bragg in handcuffs Friday. I assume it was a fight. I'll be interested to see the fates of these eleven knuckleheads.
incommin
04-29-2007, 16:53
"Hell, two guys got led out of welcome center on Bragg in handcuffs Friday. I assume it was a fight"....
Fights????? I remember lots of them. SF against 82nd guys..... SF and 82nd guys against "legs"......I don't remember anyone leaving in handcuffs though.
Jim
LongWire
05-01-2007, 21:58
"Hell, two guys got led out of welcome center on Bragg in handcuffs Friday. I assume it was a fight"....
Fights????? I remember lots of them. SF against 82nd guys..... SF and 82nd guys against "legs"......I don't remember anyone leaving in handcuffs though.
Jim
Times, they are a changin!!!!!!
Eagle5US
05-02-2007, 01:21
from our FOB. Admitted gang member, enlisted on a waiver for previous crimes, 3rd time E-1, tatted up to his jawline, and a full gold grill with a "bullet" shape on his front tooth. He "felt disrespected" by one of his NCO's so he went after him with a claw hammer.
Did he CARE he was arrested and charged with attempted murder and assualt with a deadly weapon?
No.
As was pointed out earlier....
"Dem chahges doan mean shit-dey only meanz dat I doan take no shit. Dey grants me my respeck"
I was HAPPY to do his incarceration physical. When we took him outside the aidstation, all his "homey's" were outside to give him a pat on the back for his "good job" before CID took him.:rolleyes:
Eagle
82ndtrooper
05-02-2007, 01:50
With reports like these it seems even the "Good Conduct Medal" may be held in a somewhat higher esteem. :munchin
groundup
05-07-2007, 00:12
Does this mean there will be a miltary Jerry Springer coming out? :munchin
There appears to be several women involved in the burglary. 'day be whilin yo'
The Reaper
05-07-2007, 07:52
Maybe they should have watched Dave Chappelle's "Keepin' It Real" series.:munchin
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/chappelles_show/videos/season_2/index.jhtml
Specifically, the "Keepin' It Realer" Brenda Johnson episode.
TR
D9 (RIP)
05-07-2007, 08:04
Like others said.... at least on Bragg I'm pretty sure all these douchebags come out of the support side of the house, so I would say we have very little to worry about if they decide to share their "combat skills" with street gangs. In fact, that may be a good way to REDUCE injuries and deaths associated with urban crime.
IMHO, if you like rap music, you should be thrown out of MEPS on your ear.
Sionnach
05-07-2007, 09:35
Maybe they should have watched Dave Chappelle's "Keepin' It Real" series.:munchin
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/chappelles_show/videos/season_2/index.jhtml
Specifically, the "Keepin' It Realer" Brenda Johnson episode.
TR
Hah, hah! That was a great skit!
IMHO, if you like rap music, you should be thrown out of MEPS on your ear.
I'm going to get dog-piled for this, but... I like some hip-hop. Not the "b*tches and h*es" kind, but there's some intelligent stuff out there. De La Soul, Talib Kweli, and Mos Def come to mind. I don't agree with some of their politics, but the groups I just mentioned, and De La Soul in particular, strongly encourage positive thinking and hard work. Yeah, those guys have their "sex songs," but every genre has those.
The crap that plays on the radio, however, is pure garbage.
They have the perp's pictures in this weeks Army Times.
So their unit goes to Iraq and they get to stay home to face punishment.
Pete
I work in the heart of the ghetto.
I have also arrested numerous thugs who were home one leave from the Army, Navy, and Marines. Off hand, I can't think of any USAF types that I have arrested. Without exception, they have all been support types. I have yet to come across a thug that was in combat arms.
The crimes were everything from drugs to car theft, aggravated assault to weapons charges. One soldier had his DLI course books and uniforms with him as he was holed up in a hotel room selling meth and crack. He was armed to the teeth as well, and then cried that we were going to ruin his army career by arresting him.
Guess that is what happens when you get high on your own product, strip down to your boxers, and start threatening other guests with a Glock 17.
I can never understand why someone, who has obviously made it -out- of that environment, would choose to come back and screw it up by acting like a "gangsta."
"Hey, I have 2 weeks leave, think I'm going to go home and sell some crack.... then steal a car."
Unfortunately, there is a great deal of truth in those "Keepin it real" skits.
It has been known for years that gang bangers are joining the Army to get training in combat skills so that when they go back, they can train their buddies. Fortunately, I haven't met any of these jokers on an SFODA. I think all the screening/psyche processes that we use in/around the SFQC has kept those guys out. I believe that will continue. Lets continue to preserve our lineage, heritage, and credibilty and make sure these guys never make it into SF.
groundup
05-10-2007, 02:30
I am adding fuel to the fire for the AD *vs* Reserve components debate but: The worst gang ratio that I have seen is in the Infantry in Northeast NJ.
I think any decent recruiter asks himself "will this person be a benefit to the Army and how will the Army benefit him". If the recruiter is not pulling numbers, they are more likely to say "well, they might not be so good for the Army and they probably won't change much, but ... (sign here)"