Top 10

[John A. Larsen]

Among other jobs I have been writing for Tactical Knives magazine for the last 10 years. One question that has come up lately is what are the top 10 knives being carried in Iraq and Afghanistan? I was in Khandar in April/May 2002 training the 101st and then it was what was in the local PX, Cold Steel SRK's, Gerber Applegate Folders, SAK's and multitools. I expect it is still the same but anyone with current experience in either country I would like to hear from you. Thanks.

[jbour13]

Among other jobs I have been writing for Tactical Knives magazine for the last 10 years. One question that has come up lately is what are the top 10 knives being carried in Iraq and Afghanistan? I was in Khandar in April/May 2002 training the 101st and then it was what was in the local PX, Cold Steel SRK's, Gerber Applegate Folders, SAK's and multitools. I expect it is still the same but anyone with current experience in either country I would like to hear from you. Thanks.

Is this for market research or your edification?

Additionally, Top Ten for what purpose. Stabbing, slashing, prying, multi-use, survival, etc.

Not being hostile, just curious as to the intent, and for a more refined response.

I carry a handful of knives, mostly Benchmade. PX knives from my experience are marketed towards cool, not function. FWIW

Best to you SGM and welcome to the board

V/R
SSG B

[John A. Larsen]

jbour13, as I said it is a question that we received from our readers, would like to be able to give them a good answer, not someone's flight of fantasy about de-animating bad guys, although it seems most people would rather believe fantasy then fact. Case in point, I had a John Nelson Cooper 8 inch bowie in VN, that I never carried as it was carbon steel and rusted very quickly. I used it one time to cut up a block of hamburger meat and the blood stained the blade. No one would believe me when I would say how the blood stain got on the blade, but when I would say "Ok, I de-animated 3 VC " then everyone was happy. To your question, what are the general purposes knives being carried, not only by SF personnel but by the big Green Army. Thanks.

[casey]

I know one 19 year old in Baghdad who swears by his Harsey T2.

[Bill Harsey]

jbhour,
PX knives are selected by someone in the Army and price point is a big issue.

All my cards on the table face up: John A. Larsen is a friend of mine and he can ask any question he wants here, in whatever manner he sees fit.
Please note the title "Quiet Professional" under his name. He is both and this forum is lucky to have him around.

Casey, Thank you.

[RTK]

Among other jobs I have been writing for Tactical Knives magazine for the last 10 years. One question that has come up lately is what are the top 10 knives being carried in Iraq and Afghanistan? I was in Khandar in April/May 2002 training the 101st and then it was what was in the local PX, Cold Steel SRK's, Gerber Applegate Folders, SAK's and multitools. I expect it is still the same but anyone with current experience in either country I would like to hear from you. Thanks.


Sir,

I've told Mr. Harsey that I've had his Harsey-Applegate on my hip since I bought it in Iraq in 2003 through the second half of OIF I and all of OIF III.

[jbour13]

jbhour,
PX knives are selected by someone in the Army and price point is a big issue.

All my cards on the table face up: John A. Larsen is a friend of mine and he can ask any question he wants here, in whatever manner he sees fit.
Please note the title "Quiet Professional" under his name. He is both and this forum is lucky to have him around.

Casey, Thank you.

No disrespect meant Mr. Harsey. I'm somewhat familiar with the SGM and his history, and I am actually excited to learn from him while he is a board member here.

I just wanted to give him a better persepective if I could from a regular troops standpoint. That is why I asked is this market related or his own edification. I see how I came off as curt, not my intent. I do apologize if any disrespect was thought to have occured.

Agree that price point is a big issue. I'm familiar with the SGM's work as a specialist in the area of blades.

[jbour13]

jbour13, as I said it is a question that we received from our readers, would like to be able to give them a good answer, not someone's flight of fantasy about de-animating bad guys, although it seems most people would rather believe fantasy then fact. Case in point, I had a John Nelson Cooper 8 inch bowie in VN, that I never carried as it was carbon steel and rusted very quickly. I used it one time to cut up a block of hamburger meat and the blood stained the blade. No one would believe me when I would say how the blood stain got on the blade, but when I would say "Ok, I de-animated 3 VC " then everyone was happy. To your question, what are the general purposes knives being carried, not only by SF personnel but by the big Green Army. Thanks.

I use my knives for mostly (honestly) office related work. I'm and Intel geek and have to cut anything from 550 Cord to 100 MPH tape. I've learned that Benchmade knives hold an edge well for multi-use. Gerber on the other hand does not (PX special). Cutting paper is the biggest thing that has taken an edge off of my knives. Gerbers are quick to dull when cutting paper and cardboard.

I'm below novice level on the reasoning as to why one steel composition holds and edge vs. another.

I've carried Leatherman and Gerber multi-tools and the Gerber has served me well. Multiple trips to SE Asia, Iraq, Afghanistan and around the house. Has everything a support knucklehead needs.

Appealing to me is that Benchmade will re-sharpen your knives for a small fee. I have a few that are pricey to me and I take this option over attempting to sharpen them myself. The Benchmade rep asked me why it needed sharpening and I told them I was a soldier, they actually expedited it and covered the cost to send it to them and back. I just paid $5 for the re-sharpening. I need to re-read Mr. Harsey's sharpening advice over and attempt it on a Wal-Mart special.

As far as de-animation of enemy personnel. If it comes to the point that I have to kill someone, things have gone extraordinarily wrong, even more so if I have to do so with a knife. :D I'm the Fobbit that everyone talks about, and I'm not ashamed at my role.

[The Reaper]

CSM, I suspect that most of the knives carried in theater fall into one of these categories, in this order.

1. Free
2. Cheap
3. Look cool
4. Big

If we limited the survey to edged items that worked, or to respondents who actually know much about blades, you would find that the types are more like this.

1. Practical
2. Good value
3. Handy
4. Quality

IMHO, the knives that I always had in the woods were a good heavy duty folder, a multi-tool, and some sort of chopping/fighting/survival knife.

The folders I liked were Al Mar, Chris Reeve, or Harsey.

For a multi-tool, I have used a bunch of them starting with the Victorinox Swiss Army knives, and it is hard to beat the Leatherman, especially the value of the Wave.

For longer, heavy working blades (which many units ban troops from carrying), I have used kukris, hatchets, machetes, Kabars, etc. which were a great value, but I have also used Harsey, Reeve, Brend, Al Mar, and the like when I could afford them.

It is hard to take a very valuable knife like some of these I named and abuse them busting open ammo crates, digging, chopping, cutting wire, pounding on things, using them as a sharpened pry bar, etc. Right now, if I had to take a large knife that my life depended on, it would be an S30V blade, something like the Yarborough or the Reaper, because I know that if I damage it accidentally, the manufacturers will make it right, regardless.

Probably the most common blades in theater are the bayonet, the issue survival knife, the Leatherman multi-tool, and whatever inexpensive folders the AAFES stocks, like the Spydercos.

HTH.

TR

[Monsoon65]

When I was active duty, I used a Kabar. Great for when you have to trench field wire in the Oklahoma dirt!

We were issued Benchmade switchblades when I went over for OIF, but a lot of guys complained about them getting fouled with grit, so we went to a SOG folder (X-Ray) which is pretty nice.

But the one I've carried for years, and still do in my flight suit, is a Gerber LST. Has a nice edge that's easy to care for and really light.

[OIFDan]

.

[kgoerz]

CSM, I suspect that most of the knives carried in theater fall into one of these categories, in this order.

1. Free
2. Cheap
3. Look cool
4. Big

I would have to agree. Knives that are free/issued would be the number one choice for the E-5 and below Soldiers. Is the regular Army even issuing a common Knife for cutting, or is the Bayonet it? I know in SF it depends on what unit your in. I have a draw full of Spydercos type Knives. Seems every time I walked thru a door someone was handing one to me.

[Hostile0311]

Sir,
I got out in '03 so I hope my '02 is not to out of date. The Gerber Multi-Plier 600 DET multi-tool is a great piece of gear for demo capability/everyday multi-tool combo. Also, I have carried many brands of fixed-blade & folders such as Benchmade, Emerson, K-Bar, SOG as well as many others. I saw many soldiers carry the biggest, baddest, coolest looking, most expensive blades they can find. As other's mentioned, it seems the "cool factor' outweighs the 'functionality factor'. Pound for pound, its hard to beat an old-fashioned K-Bar (Marines in my unit were issued K-Bars in addition to the M9 from the armory) for heavy use and abuse because they are relatively cheap and can take a fair amount of punishment in the everyday field environment. My last fixed blade was a SOG Seal. It held up alright. As for folders, I still carry the Emerson CQC-7 I bought 6 years ago while on AD for everyday use. Its a great blade that holds a decent edge. I have never had the pleasure of owning one of Mr.Harsey's knives but by what the QP's say on this board I don't think you could do any better. I wish I could get one over here thru customs.

[John A. Larsen]

To all that have replied to my question, thanks. I too use a Victorinox multiitool, as well as a Victorinox one hander, that I have carried since 2002. Just wish it had a red handle, as most folks associated SAK's with red handles, not as threatening as some knives. Currently I am carrying a Benchmade DeJavoo, designed by another Oregon knifemaker, Bob Lum. Very nice, S30V blade and smooth opening and closing. I also got a laugh out of the categories ie free and cool. The "Cool" factor has always outweighted the practical. I am quilty too, carried a British Sykes/Fairburn commando knife on my first tour. I did take a file and knock about an 1 1/2 inches off of the point as I thought it would snap if I hit anything with it. Then I carried a Ben Hibben Jungle Fighter, forged 440C for the next two tours, and ended up with a stainless (440B) Randall 14 on my last tour, and carried it till I retired in 91. I had Wayne Goddard (another Oregon knife maker) re-handle it in 1988. Always had a SAK (since 1972) for real use, and when I went back to Okinawa I got a parang in Brunei. Hands down, the SAK saw more use than all my other knives combined.

[SOKOOLJ]

I am by no means an expert on knives, which is why I purchase only quality blades that are not carried in the PX, and I usually have to wait several months to get them in hand after ordering them.But, my favorite has to be a kukuri that I got during a JCET to Nepal in '96. Made of leaf spring, decent balace, tougher than nails, and sharpens quite easily...especially since it is not intended to be a razor blade. I have always carrieid it on my kit, and will be living hell, for all around, the day it is gone.

[WhiskeyBoarder]

I was last in theatre in 2005 while still on active duty. I am also no expert on knives. While my information is lacking because of these negative factors, I can offer information that reflects exactly what an almost completely light, highly-exercised line infantry unit was utilizing during our year in Ar-Ramadi (1/503rd).

I understand why the prevailing thought here would lead to the assumption that being “cool” outweighs utility in terms of equipment choices by current soldiers. In many regards, I would agree. However, I would totally disagree with this sentiment as far as blades are concerned. Case in point: our soldiers decided to disregard certain grooming standards (*COUGH* haircuts…shaving *COUGH*) because it was cool, however hardly anyone carried any sort of extensive knives out of vanity.

With that being said, the 1/503rd’s most popular choice of blade, in my assessment, was any sort of multi-tool. I think the Leatherman versions were more popular then the Gerber products as they were given to us freely (REPEATEDLY) through the Rapid Fielding initiative. I knew of only a single soldier that carried a blade any larger then a utility knife. He was my P.L. and he, undoubtedly, did so because he thought it was “cool.”

I think it would come as a surprise to most; however, in my experience, the usefulness and interest in the carrying of blades has been lost on this generation’s line soldiers. In all honesty, the most useful knife for us was one that could handle opening MREs repeatedly without dulling, which- apparently- was asking a lot from our multi-tools.

My bottom line is this: If I were publishing an article of the sort as being done by the original poster, I would emphasize just how little attention line soldiers give to blades these days. If I had to pick a single example as being the most utilized, I would suggest some sort of Leatherman multi-tool.

I know some of this was said before but, if so, the restating was done for emphasis.

Thank you.

[Bill Harsey]

WhiskeyBoarder,

You have an interesting perspective. If all your guys are carrying Leathermans, of course thay don't have to care about knives, they already have them.

I know from various point of sales information and returns for maintenance that many knives are being carried and used by Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen in the current war zones. One single project I'm involved with has delivered 50,000 knives to guys going over.

Half the damn Oregon National Guard working "over there" is outfitted like SF guys when it comes to knives.

[kgoerz]

One of my biggest mistakes involved a Knife. It was a KGB Knife. I bought it off a Russian Street vendor in Ecuador. That is the real name for this Knife. It was a little bigger then a Kbar. The blade was spring loaded into the handle. It required applying all of my wight to load it. When you pressed a button on the handle it shot a good 15 feet accurately. It would penetrate a solid wooden door no problem. No safeties on it at all. Very heavy.
I sold the dam thing not realizing it was actually an issued Russian Knife. I later found out right before I purchased this Knife. The Russian Embassy closed down in Ecuador. A lot of the Russian residents decided to stay in Ecuador. Many of them living on the streets around Quito. I paid about ten bucks for it in 1993. Sold it for $100 thinking I would pick up another one in Ecuador.
Seems I actually did get lucky encountering this Russian selling a knife. Never could find another one. I saw one very similar with the same name in a Magazine. But it looked like a cheap copy. This one was forged from molten steel, Muscle and hammer.
Wasn't sure if it was legal or not. So we loaded it to get thru customs. To appear like a regular Knife. What we did was take it apart and remove the spring. It probably would of went thru my suitcase if it went off during flight. It was that powerful. Or imagine a customs Agent launching The KGB Assassins Knife inside Miami Airport
" Please let me go Officer, it's the truth, the guy who sold it to me, didn't mention anything about launch type capabilities"

[Bill Harsey]

Kgoerz,
Did that knife look anything like this?

[WhiskeyBoarder]

You have an interesting perspective. If all your guys are carrying Leathermans, of course thay don't have to care about knives, they already have them.



Fair point. In that case, I guess my only further point of clarification is that I saw, within the limited viewpoint of my own battalion living in near isolation, very little demand from the soldiers for knives to add to their arsenals outside of the already provided Leathermans. Looking back, this just seems interesting and maybe even poignant. Mileage may vary among units as you have clearly shown.

[kgoerz]

Kgoerz,
Did that knife look anything like this?

The handle might of been different. But the inside looks very familiar. It's been awhile since I last saw it. If I sold some rare treasure, break it to me easy.

Forgot, if thats a safety pin. Mine didn't have it. I'm pretty sure there wasn't a hole for one either. I remember thinking how dangerous it was to carry because there wasn't a way to render it safe.

[HaveBlue]

The only 2 that I can speak for as fact are my office manager's nephews. They each have Harsey T-3 folders and Strider BT fixed blades;)

[Rob_0811]

Sitting here in my room in Baghdad, I have a Leatherman Wave on my belt and a Microtech LUDT Automatic (gift from my father-in-law) in my pocket.

Out on missions, I carry the above mentioned plus a SOG Pentagon (borrowed) in my assault pack.

My Bark River Teddy is now locked in my footlocker, soon to be shipped home.

To add to what Mr. Harsey was saying, I would carry a fixed blade knife on me on missions if I could find a sheath system that I could attach to my belt and still be able to sheath the knife with my IBA and crap on. Right now, I need help putting my knife back in its sheath because the IBA is in the way. I think some of the joes are eschewing non-folding knives because of all of the crap we have to wear outside the wire.

Hope this helps

Rob
B 3/144 IN

[CharlieMike]

I was told by my senior Drill Sergeant back in 2000 that a soldier should always carry paper, a pen, a good knife, and a leatherman. I took that advice. Daily I carry an Emerson CQC-15 clipped in my pocket and a Leatherman Surge on my belt. On mission I still carry both of those, the Emerson in my weak pocket, the Leatherman on the MOLLE of my thigh holster, and I also have an SOG SealPup attached to my thigh holster. I have had the SealPup since 2004 in Korea. I have used it for everything from a trowel digging for that last freakin piece of 9mm brass to get 100% to a pry bar to break banding. It has been utterly reliable. I love the customer service at Emerson and the CQC-15 is actually my second Emerson. Their knives are really well made. IMHO.

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

All good stuff to carry but a Pencil is better than a pen. ink runs in the rain. Blitz

[Razor]

...ink runs in the rain.

And won't flow in the cold.

[Jeff Randall]

Hello John,

Missed you at the Blade Show. Hope all is well with you in the Northwest.

[John A. Larsen]

Jeff, sorry for the slow reply but I was working the Spec Ops Trade Show in Tacoma, WA. Get paid to do that, have to pay to go to the Blade Show. Maybe next year.

[cold1]

One of my biggest mistakes involved a Knife. It was a KGB Knife. I bought it off a Russian Street vendor in Ecuador. That is the real name for this Knife. It was a little bigger then a Kbar. The blade was spring loaded into the handle.

It is a class 1 misdomenor to even posses it NC.
§ 14‑269.6. Possession and sale of spring‑loaded projectile knives prohibited.

(a) On and after October 1, 1986, it shall be unlawful for any person including law‑enforcement officers of the State, or of any county, city, or town to possess, offer for sale, hold for sale, sell, give, loan, deliver, transport, manufacture or go armed with any spring‑loaded projectile knife, a ballistic knife, or any weapon of similar character. Except that it shall be lawful for a law‑enforcement agency to possess such weapons solely for evidentiary, education or training purposes.

(b) Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. (1985 (Reg. Sess., 1986), c. 810, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 167; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



The two that I have seen have sold in $2000 and up range.

[Jake0331]

We (2d Bn 8th Marines) were never issued knives outside of bayonets and those Marines who were issued M9s got a Kabar. We all carried CRKT M16s, though. Likely because they were always in the PX, and pretty cool. They work great for throwing at each other's boots, too...

I always carried a SOG Sealpup because it was rugged enough to beat around as a utility/survival blade and small enough to not be ridiculous. I've bought them for friends as "deployment gifts" as I think a good knife should be a part of an infantryman's kit - whether it's a SOG or not.

Good thing for me, their factory outlet store is just down the street from my place.

[11B2V]

I am not a knife guru by any means, but I can provide an observation or two for you.

My first time in Iraq (2003) I was issued the standard black Gerber multitool. I liked it, however the pliers flex easily if you are really working on something. My buddy carried a Leatherman Wave which seemed a seemed sturdier, as well as having a better plain edge blade. I like the SOG multitools, but the Gerber has always got the job done for me. I also bought a SOG Seal Pup (BEFORE the PX was carrying them:)) and wore it every day. I still like that knife, it is somewhat simple, but feels capable in my hand, and when sharpened properly it is a vicious blade. A $70 MRE opener was a little expensive for a PFC though.

Last time I was in Iraq, I had the Gerber again, as well as a Benchmade Auto Stryker(9100SBK). The Benchmade has been in my pocket through 12 different countries, countless jumps, and hundreds of MRE's (the true litmus test). Seriously though, it maintains an edge well, can take a beating, and the pocket clip is still as strong as when it was new. I have tied a loop of 550 through the handle to assist getting it out faster, and hanging on to it better.

I bought a SOG Flash 2 at one point but returned it an hour later. I thought the opening mechanism was interesting, but It didn't feel like a worthwhile alternative to the Stryker.

Recently, I was issued a Gerber LMF ASEK2. Good knife, good weight, lots of uses, blade seems very strong. If I had to FIGHT with it, I believe my mind would be wondering where the heck my Seal Pup was...lighter=faster. Personal preference. Also, I don't like the fact that places are charging more for the Foliage color than for Coyote Brown. They call it 'reduced IR signature', I think it's designed to separate the ACU wearer from their money. They know that big Army Joe has to be dress right dress, only foliage with foliage, no brown or black mixed in. http://www.rangerjoes.com/gerber-knife-system-lmf-asek-p-3800.html
It's not the money, it's the principle of the thing:D!

Finally, as stated before, I am not a knife guru, just a gRunt. If I had to look for a great knife spared no expense, I would probably start by looking at Tops Knives. Okay uh..........hey WAKE UP! Sorry, I'm done running my trap now!

[Kit Carson]

Hey, John. Great seeing you around again. Been too long.

I'm with Bill on this one..John is an old friend and certainly has my respect.

Based on some of the things I've seen, somebody over in the sand is carrying a few CRKT knives....:)

[swpa19]

In the early 60s, I picked up a knife in Holland that had a spring loaded blade. This one however didn't propel the blade, it was intregal with the handle. It was spring loaded when activated and also spring operated on retraction. It was known then as a Panzer Messer.

If you held the handle tightly against a carton of cigarettes (at this time in history, usually someone elses carton) and activated the "pushbutton" the power of the spring would drive the 4 1/2 blade completely through the carton.

Mine was similar to the one below, except that instead of a plastic case, mine had a stamped aluminum one.

I dont know whatever happened to that knife. It did make it back stateside, but then it just disappeared. I may have "Put it somewhere so I'd know where it would be".

[Bill Harsey]

...Also, I don't like the fact that places are charging more for the Foliage color than for Coyote Brown. They call it 'reduced IR signature', I think it's designed to separate the ACU wearer from their money. They know that big Army Joe has to be dress right dress, only foliage with foliage, no brown or black mixed in. http://www.rangerjoes.com/gerber-knife-system-lmf-asek-p-3800.html
It's not the money, it's the principle of the thing:D!

You are not correct in your assessment of how these knives are priced.

The reduced IR signature knives by Gerber are produced at the request of the buyer which is the United States Army.
The added chemical which produces the reduced IR signature in both the handle and sheath costs more and because of the type of purchase these knives must be Berry Amendment compliant. The 100% Made In USA materials cost more too.

This is why you see the price difference, not because of the reason you state.

[11B2V]

In that case I wish my unit had sprung for the foliage ones instead. :D I learned something today! I guess I can go home now........

*Edit - I had been led to believe the difference in color alone reduced the IR sig.

[CHRISTIN]

Hi John,

When I was in Baghdad 2004-2006 as a contractor, It was common to see the majority of troops with a Cold Steel SRK or a PX Kabar attached to their kit. They were decently priced, readily available and no sleep lost should the knife be misplaced. Everyone had some version of a Multi-tool, due to the many functions that they provided.
On the other hand, our SOF guys had a mixed bag of high-end Harsey's, Randall's, Stryder's and even a Bagwell or two... nice blades. Action Guys... you know the type.

B i l l
remember me SGM... Your "problem child" with the Mac10 stashed under the fridge and the cute naked chick hiding in the wall locker... during a health & welfare.

p.s. When I was there, I carried a Victorinox Multi-Tool (very well made), and the same Randall #14 that you recommended me to purchase back in the B-3-10 days... and non-serrated, of course ; )

[Bill Harsey]

*Edit - I had been led to believe the difference in color alone reduced the IR sig.

Me too until I got taken to school on this stuff last year on a project we are working on.

[DJ Urbanovsky]

I can tell you that people in all branches as well as PMCs are currently carrying and using my stuff over there. These are either people who want something made to their specs to fill a particular set of requirements, they want something unique, or they're just knives hounds like me.

I suspect the average military user these days is much like I was when I was in - I was young, didn't have a lot of money, was into knives, and I'd never owned anything custom (back then, $80 for a knife was a lot for me). I carried whatever I could get that was available at the PX: A Gerber Bolt Action, multi-tool, and MK-II, and then whatever bayonet they issued us at the arms room (usually the Phrobis M-9). Honestly, the MK-II is a one purpose knife and was about the most useless knife I ever owned. I think the only thing I ever used it for was to cut 550 cord and open MREs. But it was a damn sexy knife.

Most military users realize that any knife you're going to really use probably isn't going to stay very pretty for very long, they don't want to spend a lot of bread to get it, and they don't want to feel bad if it's lost or they break it.

[122418b]

It's been a few years since I was under a rucksack, but here are a few observations:

Carried a Al Mar Sere VI a on my web gear for years and never regretted spending the money. For keeping an edge, chopping, prying, etc, can't beat a quality blade.

I dont know how many swiss army knives I have had and ended up trading OCONUS to counterparts. I love the things and still carry one every day.

Spydercos are a great low cost clip knife.

Gerber or leatherman multitools are great. My gerber multitool that I was issued in 12th SFG(A) was given to my secretary's son, who took it to Iraq twice. At least my knife got in theater.