malfunctioning berretta

[wallowinginfun]

I borrowed a Berretta 92 that is short stroking the slide on almost every round. Before I started shooting it, it was working fine. It began malfunctioning by simply not chambering, and I thought it must have been a mag spring, but I tried all of the mags I had (also borrowed) and I'm pretty sure none of them has been kept loaded long enough for any fatigue on the springs. After I stretched one of the magazine springs out it started cycling so slow that it didn't even eject. I've stripped the pistol numerous times and can't figure it out, because there's barely any fouling and no dust or dirt in it whatsoever. I put about 200 rounds through it on a warm day, and the day I had the constant stoppages it was in the 30-40 degree fahrenheit range. I'm totally at a loss. I've looked the locking block over very carefully, and can't see any cracks, and it's a pretty new gun. It has had a trigger job, but I don't see how that could be causing this issue. Anyone who has ever had this problem, I'd really appreciate some help, because the way it looks is that I broke this guy's gun.

[The Reaper]

1. How do you know it was working fine before you started shooting it?

2. Change mags, ammo, and shooters. Try to get back to the mags and ammo it ran with before, if not the previous shooter as well.

3. Make sure that the recoil spring has not been changed, bent, or broken. Did you change anything else when you took it apart?

4. Inspect the bottom of the barrel lugs and the slide rails for any cracking or failure.

Good luck!

TR

[wallowinginfun]

1. Before I took it off the guy's hands we put a couple hundred rounds through it. Poor choice of words.
2. I tried Sellier & Bellot and Winchester white box, both of which I've never had any problems with. Although all I ever really shoot recreationally is a Glock 17. Should I try something a little more expensive?
3. I didn't want to admit it, but I stretched the recoil spring a little too. This, I realize, might have been very stupid.
4. I'm going to include some pictures of the frame, because it's the only part that looked worn in a way that was out of the ordinary. It looks like there's a scuff on the very front of the left side rail. Also, I put a pic in of the main spring with a ruler, since I figured the 18B's would know if it was messed up. Although to my novice eyes that little scuff doesn't look like it could have anything to do with anything, other than the pistol getting dropped while disassembled, or abused by the guy who did the trigger job.

[HOLLiS]

Wallowing,

My thoughts,

Magazine spring, its job is to push the rounds up to the magazine feed "lips". A weak spring or a restriction in movement of the follower will cause the round to set lower. When the slide goes to strip a round from the magazine, nothing will happen.

To strip a round from a "working" magazine, the slide must move sufficiently far enough back to clear the base of the case, as it begins its forward travel it will strip the round from the magazine.

If it is not chambering a round?

Does it strip a round from the magazine? Does it do it manually?

If yes, then you need to determine why the slide is not going to battery. (see post above)

If it is not stripping a round. Then you need to determine why it is not traveling to rear far enough. When you pull the slide rear wards do you feel, uneveness, excessive drag, or someother type of restriction?

A recoil spring that is either too stiff or too stiff for the ammuntion being used (very light loads?) will limit the rear ward travel of the slide. Too light of a recoil spring will cause excessive "hammering" of the slide against the frame.

As was mentioned above, a good inspection for broken, damaged or worn parts should be done. If you have some dummy rounds, it makes it much safer to to check the action of the pistol, by manually cycling it.

[wallowinginfun]

my theory (for what it's worth) is that either there's something dragging the slide or that the ammo (both types of which worked fine in someone else's sig and my glock, making this kind of a long shot) was light loaded. at first the only problems were failures to feed, and apparently stretching the mainspring was enough to slow it down to the point of not extracting.
the pistol cycles and feeds fine manually, and doesn't stand out to me as restricted. it's not as loose as a glock, but i really don't think it should be.

[The Reaper]

Buy a new mainspring and mag spring from Wolff, and try some 124 gr. ammo.

TR

[Razor]

Spend the $25 or so bucks and buy Wolff replacement springs (Service Pack Type II; it includes a new mag spring to help you figure out if mags are causing your problems). It can't hurt, will ensure you have replacement sprins on hand if one breaks in the future, and will help you diagnose the problem, since you can't know for sure what effect you produced by manually stretching the springs.

[Peregrino]

WIF - Never stretch springs. Any springs you've screwed with - THROW AWAY. And quit "limp wristing" the pistol when you shoot - just because it's a "girl's gun" doesn't mean you can get away with sloppy technique and expect it not to malfunction. :p Seriously - get the standard weight Wolff spring pack, replace ALL of the included springs, and THROW AWAY the old ones. It's cheap insurance for any used semi-auto. FWIW, your problem doesn't sound like a magazine spring. If the slide won't recoil far enough, it can't function. Check for friction points and broken parts. Clean it correctly and use a quality lubricant on all moving parts. Too much or too heavy of a lube (grease) will also slow the reciprocating parts enough to cause malfunctions. HTH - Peregrino

[wallowinginfun]

thanks, all. i'll have to see how a new spring set works when i get out to the range next. it was already lubed; light coat of LSA on the load bearing surfaces. kind of frustrating, since i never cleaned or lubed any glock and they've always run like the wind. To me the pistol seems far cleaner than it should have to be to work. this is pretty aggravating since i'm used to pistols just working, but i'm not going to set myself up for the inevitable "poor craftsman" shot.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Next time buy a Beretta...;)

[wallowinginfun]

yeah, i've never been so great with proper nouns. and next time, i think i'll get a p18. had the chance to run one through its paces a couple months ago and fell in love. it was the first time i'd dumped a mag into paper as fast as i could move the trigger and kept them all inside three inches at seven yards. the price tag, however, has kept me in glocksville. come to think of it, i think i have a spare glock and a beretta i'm not using right now...

[Team Sergeant]

yeah, i've never been so great with proper nouns. and next time, i think i'll get a p18. had the chance to run one through its paces a couple months ago and fell in love. it was the first time i'd dumped a mag into paper as fast as i could move the trigger and kept them all inside three inches at seven yards. the price tag, however, has kept me in glocksville. come to think of it, i think i have a spare glock and a beretta i'm not using right now...

wallowinginfun,

The next time you post use proper english. A few have taken the time to answer your post, you can take the time to write properly.

Quit spending $80 a gallon on Starbucks coffee (yes it really is $80 a gallon) and purchase a good weapon, steer clear of the glocks.

If you do not know or understand what "limp wristing" is; find out and don't do it.

Team Sergeant

[wallowinginfun]

Sorry, I didn't mean any offense. I just thought the tone had gotten a little playful and that I could be more casual. Won't happen again.

As for limp wristing, I know what it is and have a very positive firing grip. Sorry for the confusion.

[wallowinginfun]

TS, I've been looking around for a while trying to get a good feel of why you think Glocks are so inferior, and I was wondering if you could condense it down for me. Honestly I hate the trigger, but they've always run like crazy for me.
And honestly they're all I've shot on a regular basis, so I'd also like to ask what you'd recommend as a replacement.

[Peregrino]

This is gonna be good. :munchin Peregrino

[Team Sergeant]

TS, I've been looking around for a while trying to get a good feel of why you think Glocks are so inferior, and I was wondering if you could condense it down for me. Honestly I hate the trigger, but they've always run like crazy for me.
And honestly they're all I've shot on a regular basis, so I'd also like to ask what you'd recommend as a replacement.


I cannot shoot "bullet holes through bullet holes" with a glock. I would not say that if it were not true. The gun is inaccurate.

The gun is also maldesigned and too many police departments are "making up" techniques tactics and procedures to compensate for a shitty design, ie no thumb safeties, shitty trigger etc.

Tell me wallowinginfun about how many pistols have you fired? Rounds? Trust me when I say I have a fews years of experience in this area.....;)

TS

[NousDefionsDoc]

Ant beds, wasp nests and messing with the Team Sergeant....tsk..tsk... MEDIC UP!

Oh wait....

[wallowinginfun]

With a Glock maybe (a strong maybe) into ten thousand rounds, but I've tried out a few 1911's, Rugers (didn't like at all), a USP, some CZ-Witness-Tanfoglio types, a Beretta, a few XD's, and played around with a pretty nice custom Hi-Power. I've taken some classes and some private instruction from Bill Davison at Tac Pro Shooting Center. He seems to like Glocks, and swears by the 9x19mm. A lot of the posts on this forum are to the contrary, and since I'm sure most of these opinions are from experience, I really wanted to hear them.

I liked the hi cap 1911's the best, but since carrying a Glock on a deployment and in a couple classes I guess I got to like not having to mess with it so much.

I've tried to keep track of what everyone says about certain types of pistols, but I always end up getting lost in the threads. Because as long as some schmoe like me isn't muddying the waters, there's too much good info to just scan over.

[Aoresteen]

I took TS, TR, & Razor's advice and contacted Wolff:

800-545-0077

http://www.gunsprings.com/

I bought a service pack of springs for an M9 for $24 including mag spring. Seems cheap enough to have a spare set in in your kit bag. Nice people. Thanks all for the tip.:)

[Team Sergeant]

With a Glock maybe (a strong maybe) into ten thousand rounds, but I've tried out a few 1911's, Rugers (didn't like at all), a USP, some CZ-Witness-Tanfoglio types, a Beretta, a few XD's, and played around with a pretty nice custom Hi-Power. I've taken some classes and some private instruction from Bill Davison at Tac Pro Shooting Center. He seems to like Glocks, and swears by the 9x19mm. A lot of the posts on this forum are to the contrary, and since I'm sure most of these opinions are from experience, I really wanted to hear them.

I liked the hi cap 1911's the best, but since carrying a Glock on a deployment and in a couple classes I guess I got to like not having to mess with it so much.

I've tried to keep track of what everyone says about certain types of pistols, but I always end up getting lost in the threads. Because as long as some schmoe like me isn't muddying the waters, there's too much good info to just scan over.


So you took a few classes from a British Marine. That’s nice. "Bill has over 20 years of firearms experience" my tee-shirts have more than 20 years of "firearms" experience.
(Actually I have little "firearms" experience, 99.9% of my experience is "weapons" experience. The NRA teaches the use of firearms, the military teaches the use of "weapons".)

Tell me, did you verify his British Service claims? Due diligence cannot be overrated when finding a "authentic" weapons instructor.

With all the fakes out there claiming to be some sort of "Special Forces" commando I’d be highly dubious of this guys claims.

You get what you pay for…… I guess you missed this thread;

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9451

BTW this is not AR15.com or tacticalforums.com. While we will entertain your questions we will not take recommendations or guidance from firearms amateurs.

Team Sergeant

[jatx]

Tac Pro is a great shooting facility. In fact, I spent five hours there today running carbine and handgun drills that I learned in Paul Howe's class. Nice puffy clouds, nobody to bother me or interfere with my training. But I would not under any circumstances take one of their classes. There are only four instructors outside of the Army that I'm interested in, and two of them are on this site. ;)

[Team Sergeant]

There are only four instructors outside of the Army that I'm interested in, and two of them are on this site. ;)

Outside of the Army?

Do tell.

Bio's?

TS

[gunnerjohn]

Hell, I am a factory trained Beretta (notice the proper spelling) Armorer and I am going to steer clear of this thread until called upon. :munchin

[jatx]

Outside of the Army?

Do tell.

Bio's?

TS

LOL, I think you gave me the list. And that's all I have to say about that.

Moving out.

[Smokin Joe]

LOL, I think you gave me the list. And that's all I have to say about that.

Moving out.

Chicken :D :munchin

[wallowinginfun]

I never, ever thought to give anyone advice around here. I am, as you said, an ameteur. I never thought to give any other impression. If there is a way I could change my tone or choice of words to be more respectful I am very much open to suggestion.

[jatx]

Chicken :D :munchin

More like the fly that can sense the swatter coming. :D

[Team Sergeant]

Hell, I am a factory trained Beretta (notice the proper spelling) Armorer and I am going to steer clear of this thread until called upon. :munchin


Feel free to jump in.......:D

[Team Sergeant]

I've taken some classes and some private instruction from Bill Davison at Tac Pro Shooting Center. He seems to like Glocks, and swears by the 9x19mm. A lot of the posts on this forum are to the contrary, and since I'm sure most of these opinions are from experience, I really wanted to hear them.


You didn't answer my question, did you verify this instructors credentials? Do us a favor and invite "Bill" to join our boards, we'll be happy to verify his "British Special Forces" claims.

I have made the owner of the largest indoor shooting facility in Scottsdale Arizona remove his lying cheating bio "I was in Navy Special Operations Warfare etc etc etc" from his website. He is not the first and will not be the last to live off the hard earned reputations of Special Operations soldiers, sailors Marines etc.

"He seems to like glocks", so does my mom. She has no idea why except they're easy to shoot, they're cheap, no messy things like thumb safeties to deal with, just point and pull. Very little training involved in order to use one. She (like "Bill") also "Swears by the glock 9mm", she's not too strong but she says any 75 year old woman can shoot a glock 9mm. Hell 3/4 of the police chiefs across the country think the same way. Cheap, defensive weapon, little training involved in order to know how to operate & employ. Did I mention cheap?

Most police shooting are within 21 feet. Why purchase a high quality gun when the LEO will probably never actually use the "firearm"? We equip the LEO with a $60,000 car and a $200 pistol. The car he/she uses everyday, the pistol may never leave its holster. Cheap defensive firearm. Police chiefs can now spend more money on new weight sets for the swat teams.

Clint Smith likes them too, but I think he's getting paid to say that.;)

No one pays me for my opinion or advice and my integrity is not for sale.

Save your glocks for the amateurs.

Team Sergeant

BTW there’s about 166 threads on this bulletin board with the word glock, I suggest you start reading and not to post anything concerning glocks until you’ve read most of them.

[gunnerjohn]

Feel free to jump in.......:D

OK.... since you insist...

According to the Beretta (see proper spelling again!!) factory 92/92 Armorers Handbook UQAN 1070-8/99 Section D Page 10 Line R that at failure of the Slide to complete travel is caused by two issues.

1. Broken or damaged Recoil Spring
- Quit trying to stretch your spring when you have no idea what you are doing with the weapon

2. Seperated Recoil Spring Guide
-If you broke this... I don't want to know how and you should call Beretta (spelling proper once again) and wait on hold for an hour until you can get another

If my old instructor were alive he would add other issues to the failure

3. Quit dicking with the mechanics of your weapon

4. Quit being a cheap SOB and buy some good ammunition

5. Quit holding the weapon like a sissy and learn proper hold techniques.

If you don't mind waiting on hold for replacement parts, feel free to call Beretta and order what you need. Their number is (301) 283-2191
The Part numbers that you will want to ask for are Part #18 and #19 since they keep things simple for Model 92 ordering.

Enjoy... I have to go to work now.