Rep. John Murtha Wants Lottery for 'Citizens Army'

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/3/123706.shtml?s=ic

BMT

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

BMT:

The link doesn't work for me. :munchin

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

BMT:

The link doesn't work for me. :munchin

Me neither. But then there is very little I have found coming out of Murtha's mouth that has any relevance to reality.

[incommin]

The link worked for me....

So the dumb ass thinks we need a citizens army to go with a professional army.

I think he has eaten too much chocolate.......too many trips to Hershey Park!



Jim

[Monsoon65]

Lottery is just a nice word for "draft".

And how come the left isn't up in arms about this? Had Bush made the suggestion, DC would be in flames.

[kgoerz]

Many Gays that oppose the Militarys don't ask don't tell policy will suddenly change their minds. If there was a lottery/Draft It would be interesting to see the number of draft dodgers today, compared to the number during the hight of the Vietnam War. More or less?
Besides more or less. IMO, sadly the majority of draft dodgers today would be running for selfish reasons, ignorant to facts. Not for opposing violence, War, Religious beliefs, political opinions....etc.

[TENGU]

For a former combat seasoned veteran like Murtha, to spew the rhetoric he does and calls our Army "broken" and joins the surrender/cut & run crowd,
my personal theory is that the man must have a brain tumor!

[jbour13]

For a former combat seasoned veteran like Murtha, to spew the rhetoric he does and calls our Army "broken" and joins the surrender/cut & run crowd,
my personal theory is that the man must have a brain tumor!

Murtha is weak, plain and simple.

[Sionnach]

For a former combat seasoned veteran like Murtha, to spew the rhetoric he does and calls our Army "broken" and joins the surrender/cut & run crowd,
my personal theory is that the man must have a brain tumor!

No, he has something much worse than a tumor, and that's an agenda. The only thing thing uniting the looney left is a hatred of George Bush. They don't care about the nation, they only care about embarassing Bush. Even if it costs our nation its future, losing in Iraq means making George Bush look bad, and that is all that matters to them.

Murtha knows why our military is so small. We used to have a fairly large all-volunteer army. Perhaps some young men who would join the army see the way our politicians, *cough* Murthaf-cker *cough* Pelosi *cough*, and press treat the military, and choose not to serve. Murtha, more than any of them, seems to despise the POTUS with a passion that borders on sanity. Murtha liks to scream, “I’m a VETERAN! Behold my Absolute Moral Authority Card™!”, but he fails to understand that past heroism does not excuse present conduct. Besides, his heroism, like "The Poodle's" is suspect (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=25637).

Edited for clarity.

[GreenSalsa]

The leftist in this country want a draft (lottery) in order to place a “check” on the military. Most liberals are stunned that retention rates continue to meet or exceed goals, AWOL rates are below pre war training levels, and that we in uniform are not in “open revolt” and burning ID cards to avoid going to war. They fear us.

During the Vietnam War era the average civilian male was VERY concerned with going to war (you older guys will have to verify this for me). This was the cause of most of the angst back then—the war was real and could impact genuine family members—hence why the nation took it much more personal.

Fast forward to today, and the average American still feels concerned but only between beers and sporting events. There is no real personal interest in the war because they really are not worried about fighting because there is no draft—thus this is why although most of the nation just doesn’t get the war on Terror they are not willing to riot.

I believe the left (specifically the “peace and any price” crowd) in this country want more Americans off the couch and in the street to cement their pacifist / defeatist views and swell their power base. The surest way to do so is to put the war in very real terms; by reconstructing the conditions of the 70s and reinstituting the draft.

This would also have the added impact of weakening the military, which they are more than happy to do. They want a larger unwilling segment of the military and society to hesitate, desert, or revolt at the though of going to war. They want to end the All-Volunteer force.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

During the Vietnam War era the average civilian male was VERY concerned with going to war (you older guys will have to verify this for me). This was the cause of most of the angst back then—the war was real and could impact genuine family members—hence why the nation took it much more personal..

You bring up a very interesting perspective that I never really paid any attention to. When I entered the military I sort of broke all ties with the civilian side of things and never really had any use for civilians as all they really seemed to do was treat us as lepers. Even today I cannot seem to even identify with many of the civilian woes and problems that I see many sniveling like rats eating onions over as they are concerned more with trivial minutia than real problems. I have really tried to make some kind of transistion and have failed miserably and it is probably me but when you all have to sit down and build some kind of consensus to address simple problems that can best be solved by common sense and someone standing up and taking charge it drives me nuts. I have more important things to do with what time I have available. So I live in the woods and because I can't get anyone to drop me a resupply bundle I ease into the civilian world only when necessary.

[Ret10Echo]

You bring up a very interesting perspective that I never really paid any attention to. When I entered the military I sort of broke all ties with the civilian side of things and never really had any use for civilians as all they really seemed to do was treat us as lepers. Even today I cannot seem to even identify with many of the civilian woes and problems that I see many sniveling like rats eating onions over as they are concerned more with trivial minutia than real problems. I have really tried to make some kind of transistion and have failed miserably and it is probably me but when you all have to sit down and build some kind of consensus to address simple problems that can best be solved by common sense and someone standing up and taking charge it drives me nuts. I have more important things to do with what time I have available. So I live in the woods and because I can't get anyone to drop me a resupply bundle I ease into the civilian world only when necessary.

Sir,
Concur with the inability to understand the issues that the average civilian seems to find so troublesome. (Besides, who the heck is in charge of these guys?) Rats whine...I figure, heck if I'm not freezing, wet, broken or getting shot at life is pretty good.


(Main Entry: lot·tery
Pronunciation: 'lä-t&-rE also 'lä-trE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ter·ies
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle French loterie, from Middle Dutch, from lot lot; akin to Old English hlot lot
1 a : a drawing of lots in which prizes are distributed to the winners among persons buying a chance b : a drawing of lots used to decide something
2 : an event or affair whose outcome is or seems to be determined by chance)

Interesting that the Dims choose the term Lottery:

Downside: I am not sure if there remains much institutional knowledge within the services to deal with a draft military.

Up-side: Many of those rats will find a new perspective on life. Maybe then when my cell drops data coverage I won't completely crumble.

Enjoy the woodline...wish I could do likewise.

[LongWire]

If they want to get more Volunteers, and keep retention high, then they need to bring in more incentives for those on the fence.

I propose that all soldiers serving should be Tax Free for the duration of service, with an added % of that after 10 yrs of service as well as benefits. For instance, someone who separates after 10 yrs, would get 50% retirement, and 50% tax free, and on up to 20 yrs. at 100%. Stay in longer than 20 and get added incentives, I.E. more pay.

This would help, bring in more prospectives, and help retention for those that are on the fence with staying.

Not to mention a fix to the SDP program, more like a 401K...........

[incommin]

Has $$$$$ ever been the main motivator of soldiers??????

I think history says that it is not!

Jim

[LongWire]

Has $$$$$ ever been the main motivator of soldiers??????

I think history says that it is not!

Jim


You'd be surprised these days...........There is a lot of money out there in the private sector, I see a lot of guys getting out to go work some contracting gig.

My main point is this, America as a whole are not franchised into the war effort. I think that this would help, plus it raises the bar and playing field for those that Do Serve. Those in Congress, do not pay into Social Security, and they get paid for life even if they only serve 1 term. Meanwhile, those of us that commit a lifetime to service, are seeing our retirement, and benefits dwindle year after year. To me this would spark a whole other interest in serving and actually franchise those who do commit a lifetime to service.

Money isn't a motivator for me, and never was..........but every little bit counts.

[Kyobanim]

Sure, money is usually not a motivator but it is a great incentive.

[504PIR]

My suggestion is a very simple one on the pay issue. Make all military pay, not just combat pay, federal tax free.

That would greatly boost the real earned income of our troops.

[LongWire]

My suggestion is a very simple one on the pay issue. Make all military pay, not just combat pay, federal tax free.

That would greatly boost the real earned income of our troops.



I believe thats what I said................

[Eagle5US]

I think incommin was correct in saying that in the past money has not been a motivator. After all, soldiers were some of the most poorly paid of any working class. As a result, any little bump or bonus we got we were ecstatic about and ran around giddy to our eyeballs singing hte praises of whatever re-up program that gave us the extra 2-3 thousand dollars. Big deal to us....upturned noses to civilian comparitives.

My younger son saw one of my SocSec statements before I crossed over to the dark side. First year in the Army I made less than $5000 in wages as an E-1. Fifteen years later, as an E-7, I made about $26K. After working at the same job for fifteen years I was still making less than $30K. My son looked at me and asked "WTH? That's ALL you made after 15 yrs?!?:confused: "

Money was never a motivator for the armed forces.....but if it WERE, I do believe we would have a bigger force. Along with that though, I also think there should be stricter enforcement of standards and discipline again to ensure that those bucks are EARNED and not given. Just because soldiers never did it for the money BEFORE....doesn't mean they won't STAY for the money now.

Eagle

Oh-and please don't bring the whole "but the benefits" arguement into play. I think it is a crock the "value" that they place on availability of various services in order to equalize the numbers.:boohoo

[The Reaper]

Oh-and please don't bring the whole "but the benefits" arguement into play. I think it is a crock the "value" that they place on availability of various services in order to equalize the numbers.:boohoo

That piece of paper they send out once a year has got to be one of the funniest things ever disseminated, and has the completely opposite effect of what was intended. I wonder how many people get it near a reenlistment window and decide at least partially because of it not to reenlist?

The generous leave program, for example, doesn't mention lost leave, weekends and holidays counting against leave days, block leave requirements, restrictions to a specific area while on leave, etc.

I wish that soldiers could sent the same sort of bill back to the Finance Office. Ever changing uniform purchase requirements, no charge. Unfashionable high and tight haircut requirements, no charge. Living in substandard housing, no charge. Participating in forced relocations every 3-5 years, no charge. Increased family stress, no charge. Being a guinea pig in a health care system where foreigners and interns learn how to practice medicine, no charge. No facial hair, no charge. Deployments for months on end, no charge. Disability pay subtracted from retirement pay, no charge. Deployment tours extended by 90 days, no charge. Having a job that requires you to go where many people are trying to kill you, no charge. Having people spit on you when you get back home, no charge.

You know the deal. We do it because we want to. Mama does like having a new dress every now and then, and the kiddies occasionally need new shoes.

TR

[incommin]

I lived pay check to pay check for most of my career in the Army. My wife and I never had a lot of discretionary money until I retried, got reeducated, and started a new career. If I could go back I would do the same thing again......or almost the same thing again!

Soldiers don't stay because they can't do anything else...... fellow soldiers and that Flag start to mean something....


Jim

[Monsoon65]

In the AF, one of the "retention perks" was the leather flight jacket for aircrew. Yeah, like I do my job for a freakin' jacket.

I had forgotten about that benefits letter that's sent out once a year. I don't think I spent too much time looking at it because it is a joke. Never once heard an Airman read that and say, "Damn, look at this! I'm staying in!"

And growing up in an AF family, at Andrews AFB in 1967, my dad (an E-5 at the time) had to take a second job to afford new shoes for me because money was that tight.