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rubberneck
03-23-2007, 10:39
This just hit the Drudge report. Not being a former serviceman I was surprised that the entire unit was asked to leave the theater. I am assuming that expelling an entire unit from a theater is a highly unusual move.



Top general in Afghanistan expels Marines
37 mins ago Top general in Afghanistan expels Marines
Mar 23, 2007 11:52 AM (37 mins ago)
by Rowan Scarborough, The Examiner



(U.S. Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command)

WASHINGTON (Map, News) - The top American general in Afghanistan has expelled a U.S. Marine special operations company for the way the men responded to an ambush March 4, Marine sources said.

Maj. Cliff Gilmore, a spokesman for Marine Special Operations Command, confirmed to The Examiner that the company of 120 Marines is redeploying.

He said the decision followed an ambush on the company's convoy by a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device. A second Marine source said the Marines retaliated and some civilians were killed.

The action brought an abrupt end to what promised to be a historic deployment. The unit sailed in January from Camp Lejuene, N.C., as the first Marine Corps special operations company sent overseas. The Corps joined U.S. Special Operations Command a year ago.

The company is now redeploying to Kuwait after just a few weeks in Afghanistan in what was supposed to be a six-month tour.

A Marine officer assigned to special operations said Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the top U.S. commander, took the extraordinary step of expelling the unit after he consulted with Afghan Prime Minister Hamid Karzai.

A spokesman for Eikenberry could not be reached today.

Gilmore said, "The unit responded to the ambush and the local population perceptions of that response have damaged the relationship between the local population and the Marine special operations company."

rscarborough@dcexaminer.com

Team Sergeant
03-23-2007, 10:59
I do not think we should “speculate” concerning this re-deployment. We were not there on the ground and should keep our opinions to ourselves.

Team Sergeant

rubberneck
03-23-2007, 11:02
I do not think we should “speculate” concerning this re-deployment. We were not there on the ground and should keep our opinions to ourselves.

Team Sergeant

Fair enough.

Remington Raidr
03-23-2007, 18:37
Good relations with the host government is second to the safety of the warrior, but if it is a toss-up, adios muchacho.

Basenshukai
03-23-2007, 22:31
Unfortunately, this is SOP. I saw this treatment for an SF team from one of our sister groups in Afghanistan. A coalition soldier was fatally wounded during a fight. Somewhere during an investigation, the ownership of that fatal bullet was in question. The team was removed from their location and later redeployed to CONUS. They left in what they perceived was "disgrace". They felt blamed. Evidence later showed that no one in that team was manning the kind of weapon that delivered that fatal round on the day in question.

Unfortunately, our MARSOC brothers will suffer from the high visibility they have endured since their activation. No one said SOF work was without its pitfalls.

These guys are fellow elite warriors. They will survive this and go on to kick butt again.

Five-O
03-24-2007, 08:11
Fighting under a microscope is going to get Americans killed if it has not already. Makes me sick to hear all the second guessing of split second decisions made during a fire fight.

The Reaper
03-24-2007, 08:27
Too many people already do that with cops, so it is a normal extension of that mindset.

As soon as they let people start suing over tactical military decisions, the US will be done for.

I would be more concerned over what the ROE was, how they reacted, and what they did after the fact to remediate the problem and the damage.

TR

Five-O
03-24-2007, 10:06
Too many people already do that with cops, so it is a normal extension of that mindset.

I would be more concerned over what the ROE was, how they reacted, and what they did after the fact to remediate the problem and the damage.

TR


Right on target Sir. Its not exactly the same as an LE shooting but damn if "they" are not trying to make it so. We have guy's volunteer for military service; more specifically the Army and Marines who actually want to be trigger pullers, and try to bone them up the a@# when they do their job. If the ROE's have de-volved into a sucide pact, who the F would want to raise their hand???

SRT31B
03-24-2007, 17:47
"Nothing in the ROE prohibits your right to self defense..."

That in mind, since this was in response to an ambush on the unit, and the Marines felt to be in imminent danger the response should be justified. Obviously, you should know your target and whats beyond, but after being hit by an IED I can see where you might be a bit disoriented.

Don't think its grounds to send them home though. I thought CFC-A disappeared after NATO took over?

abnremf
03-24-2007, 18:11
A Marine officer assigned to special operations said Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the top U.S. commander, took the extraordinary step of expelling the unit after he consulted with Afghan Prime Minister Hamid Karzai

It doesn't suprise me these guys were expelled after seeing this name. Anybody in SOF that has been near this guy knows why.

NousDefionsDoc
03-24-2007, 18:45
Is LTG Eikenberry an armor officer?

abc_123
03-24-2007, 18:46
Amen, brother. In spades.

Team Sergeant
03-25-2007, 07:56
Lieutenant General Karl Eikenberry is the commander of Combined Forces Command - Afghanistan.

Prior to his current assignment, he was the director for Strategic Planning and Policy for U.S. Pacific Command at Camp H.M. Smith, Hawaii.

His operational assignments include service as commander and staff officer with mechanized, light, airborne, and ranger infantry units in the United States, Korea, and Europe, most recently as an assistant division commander with the 25th Infantry Division (Light) at Schofield Barracks, Hawaii.

He has served in various strategy, policy, and political-military posts, including as the U.S. security coordinator and chief of the Office of Military Cooperation in Kabul, Afghanistan; as an assistant Army and later defense attaché at the United States Embassy in Beijing, China; as the senior country director for China, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Mongolia in the Office of the Secretary of Defense; and as the deputy director for Strategy, Plans, and Policy on the Army Staff.

He is a graduate of the U.S. Military Academy, has earned master’s degrees from Harvard University in East Asian Studies and Stanford University in Political Science, and was a National Security Fellow at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. He earned an Interpreter’s Certificate in Mandarin Chinese from the British Foreign Commonwealth Office while studying at the United Kingdom Ministry of Defence Chinese Language School in Hong Kong and he has an Advanced Degree in Chinese History from Nanjing University in the People’s Republic of China.

His military awards and decorations include the Defense Superior Service Medal, the Legion of Merit, the Bronze Star, the Ranger Tab, the Combat and Expert Infantryman badges, and master parachutist wings. He has also received the Department of State Superior Honor Award, the Director of Central Intelligence Award, and Afghanistan’s Akbar Khan Award presented by President Hamid Karzai.

He has published numerous articles on U.S. military training, tactics, and strategy, on Chinese ancient military history, and on Asia-Pacific security issues. He was previously the president of the Foreign Area Officers Association and is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:R3TAOOFL66UJ:www.cfc-a.centcom.mil/BIOS/Lt%2520Gen%2520Eikenberry%2520Biography.htm+Lt.+Ge n.+Karl+Eikenberry&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


LIEUTENANT GENERAL KARL W. EIKENBERRY, U.S. ARMY
FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL
COMBINED FORCES COMMAND-AFGHANISTAN
BEFORE THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE ON DEFENSE
AN ASSESSMENT OF SECURITY AND STABILITY IN AFGHANISTAN
FEBRUARY 13, 2007
http://armedservices.house.gov/pdfs/FC_Afghan021307/Eikenberry_Testimony021307.pdf

NousDefionsDoc
03-25-2007, 08:09
Roger, I saw that too when I was searching for his branch. I think they should post the branch when they put the bios together.

The Reaper
03-25-2007, 08:17
Amen, brother. In spades.

Not likely, with an EIB, a CIB, and Master Wings.

According to his bio, "commander and staff officer with mechanized, light, airborne, and ranger infantry units in the United States, Korea, and Europe".

Ranger, mech, and light guy, with a tour or two in an airborne unit like the Deuce.

GOs give up their branches when they are promoted, BTW.

That is why you will not see them with branch insignia.

TR

NousDefionsDoc
03-25-2007, 08:34
I know what branch BG Kearney was...

Sweetbriar
05-12-2007, 20:56
http://euphoricreality.com/2007/05/10/ilario-pantano-asks-for-help/

"Three years ago, I was leading Marines in Fallujah. Two years ago, with lawyers that many of you helped pay for, I walked into a courtroom at Camp Lejeune to face off against prosecutors in a fight for my life.
Today, I am back in the fight, and ask for your help in defending a team of true American heroes. Drawn from the elite ranks of “Force Recon,” the hand-picked men of Marine Special Operations (MARSOC) are literally the best of the best, and instead of being honored they are being investigated for simply doing their job. Our commandos became the latest victims of rushed judgment and political posturing when they were accused of using “excessive force” to defend themselves during a suicide car-bomb triggered ambush targeting the Americans because some purportedly innocent Afghanis got caught in the cross-fire. But that day on March 4, 2007 in the town of Bati Kot, Afghanistan, our Marines became the victims of more than just suicide bombers, they were caught in the teeth of a thoughtfully engineered media ambush that has ensnared them, and by extension the U.S., in the Taliban’s fight to wrest control of Afghanistan from the Karzai government......."

NousDefionsDoc
05-12-2007, 21:14
http://euphoricreality.com/2007/05/10/ilario-pantano-asks-for-help/

"Three years ago, I was leading Marines in Fallujah. Two years ago, with lawyers that many of you helped pay for, I walked into a courtroom at Camp Lejeune to face off against prosecutors in a fight for my life.
Today, I am back in the fight, and ask for your help in defending a team of true American heroes. Drawn from the elite ranks of “Force Recon,” the hand-picked men of Marine Special Operations (MARSOC) are literally the best of the best, and instead of being honored they are being investigated for simply doing their job. Our commandos became the latest victims of rushed judgment and political posturing when they were accused of using “excessive force” to defend themselves during a suicide car-bomb triggered ambush targeting the Americans because some purportedly innocent Afghanis got caught in the cross-fire. But that day on March 4, 2007 in the town of Bati Kot, Afghanistan, our Marines became the victims of more than just suicide bombers, they were caught in the teeth of a thoughtfully engineered media ambush that has ensnared them, and by extension the U.S., in the Taliban’s fight to wrest control of Afghanistan from the Karzai government......."
From what I have seen, this individual is not well thought of by his fellow Marines.

moobob
05-12-2007, 22:35
From what I remember about the story, Ilario Pantano was accused of murder in Iraq, acquitted, and the prosecution's main witness was read his rights on the witness stand (for perjury I think). He wrote a book about his experiences, but I never picked it up.

It's clear if you click the link and read the intro before the actual letter, but if you're not familiar with him, Ilario Pantano was not involved in the incident with MARSOC. He was involved in a possibly similar incident, hence his letter defending the MARSOC Marines.

I'm not a fan of the military times papers, but this article did come out last week:

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/05/marine_marsoc_070505/

Lawyers: Evidence backs MarSOC’s claims

By C. Mark Brinkley and Trista Talton - Staff writers
Posted : Tuesday May 8, 2007 14:29:35 EDT

JACKSONVILLE, N.C. — Photos of shot-up military vehicles and a classified Army intelligence report confirm that a group of spec-ops Marines was attacked with small-arms fire during a March 4 ambush in Afghanistan, according to the Marines’ attorneys.

Those claims directly contradict public statements made by the top special operations officer in the region, who said the Afghans who were killed at the site of the ambush were innocent, and that there was no evidence that members of the Marine special operations company took small-arms fire from Afghans after the Marines were ambushed by a car bomb........

Joe S.
05-22-2007, 12:24
Pulled this from the "official" MARSOC website.

It was written by the unit's Public Communication Team.

http://www.marsoc.usmc.mil/QandR.htm

Last I heard, one of our components has approved and given funds to the families of those indigenous peoples killed in the incident.

Not too sure if I like that idea. But then again I'm not in their meetings.