View Full Version : Iran nabs British sailors in Iraq waters
Eagle5US
03-23-2007, 07:04
UK sailors captured at gunpoint
Fifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says.:eek:
The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.
The Royal Navy said it was doing everything it could to secure the release of the sailors and marines who are based on HMS Cornwall.
They were said to be carrying out a routine patrol in Iraqi waters.
The Ministry of Defence said: "The group boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.
Article in Full (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6484279.stm)
Probably not the smartest move....
Eagle
Monsoon65
03-23-2007, 07:05
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070323/ap_on_re_eu/british_seized_iran
By ROBERT BARR, Associated Press Writer
25 minutes ago
LONDON - Iranian naval vessels seized 15 British sailors in Iraqi waters on Friday, the Ministry of Defense said.
The British Navy personnel were "engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters," and had completed a ship inspection when they were accosted by Iranian vessels, the ministry said.
"We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level and ... the Iranian ambassador has been summoned to the Foreign Office," the ministry said.
A Pentagon official said the Britons were in two inflatable boats from the frigate H.M.S. Cornwall during a routine smuggling investigation, said the official, who spoke on condition on anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the incident.
He said the confrontation happened as the British contingent was traveling along the boundary of territorial waters between Iran and Iraq. They were detained by the Revolutionary Guard's navy, he said.
A fisherman who said he was with a group of Iraqis from the southern city of Basra fishing in Iraqi waters in the northern area of the Gulf said he saw the Iranian seizure. The fisherman declined to be identified because of security concerns.
"Two boats, each with a crew of six to eight multinational forces, were searching Iraqi and Iranian boats Friday morning in Ras al-Beesha area in the northern entrance of the Arab Gulf, but big Iranian boats came and took the two boats with their crews to the Iranian waters."
The Britain government said it had demanded "the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment."
The British Broadcasting Corp. said the British forces were inspecting a ship suspected of smuggling cars. It did not cite a source for the report.
In June 2004, six British marines and two sailors were seized by Iran in the Shatt al-Arab between Iran and Iraq. They were presented blindfolded on Iranian television and admitted entering Iranian waters illegally.
They were released unharmed after three days.
enterfirst
03-23-2007, 07:10
:munchin This should be interesting...
82ndtrooper
03-23-2007, 07:34
Since losing oil shipments from the Soviet Union, this must have seemed like a mouth watering, cant miss opportunity to exploit the UK into a political move.
How far is the Prime Minister willing to go to get his sailors back safely ? :munchin
Perhaps the Iranians are betting that the Brits will do nothing, but negotiate. The Iranians made statements to the effect that they were planning - considering - whatever - capturing American officers. Since the Iranians have done this to the Brits before - in 2004 - I think it's not something they find too difficult to do. Perhaps they did it to re-establish some respectability among their people; since the Iranian Government reported that Iranian Quds force personnel were kidnapped by us.
Kinda' hard to sneak up on somebody during daylight and while at sea.
They had to see the opposition coming, maybe a little "WTF".
All LBBs (Little Bitty Boats) should now be on notice. If you don't out gun them run for the mother ship. She has the big guns.
I'll bet a bunch of op/cont plans are being updated right now.
The has been a bunch of that waterway muscle flexing since the 70s.
Team Sergeant
03-23-2007, 08:17
I'd lend the "US Air Force" and some SOF to the Brits for a week.:lifter
I'd lend the "US Air Force" and some SOF to the Brits for a week.:lifter
I second that!
I vote for letting the Brits take Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his delegation when they come to talk to the UN.
Remington Raidr
03-23-2007, 18:41
The United States Air Force. Hey, peace is thier profession!;)
The United States Air Force. Hey, peace is thier profession!;)
Their profession is making pieces.
Why does Iran even have a navy???
If I were the British PM, I would launch Harpoon after Harpoon until I got my sailors back and Iran no longer had the capability to capture any of my sailors...
Thats just me though. I'm sure someone will "negotiate until a peaceful resolution" is decided upon despite the fact that what Iran did WAS AN ACT OF WAR.
BOHICA
The Reaper
03-23-2007, 19:23
Why does Iran even have a navy???
If I were the British PM, I would launch Harpoon after Harpoon until I got my sailors back and Iran no longer had the capability to capture any of my sailors...
Thats just me though. I'm sure someone will "negotiate until a peaceful resolution" is decided upon despite the fact that what Iran did WAS AN ACT OF WAR.
BOHICA
They are like dogs.
They have gotten away with it since Jimmy Carter let them take over our embassy in 1979, so they keep doing it.
If we had spanked them hard then, we would not be seeing this now.
TR
Monsoon65
03-23-2007, 19:43
If we had spanked them hard then, we would not be seeing this now....
I agree. On "The Simpsons" they called Jimmy Carter the "20th Century's greatest monster". Sometimes, I think they were right. He's the cause of a lot of what's going on in the Middle East at this time, not that he, or any of the other libs, will admit it.
Aoresteen
03-23-2007, 20:51
The Brits should sink an Iranian vessel or two with their RAF boys. Then let their Navy shell a port or two.
Remember what happend last year when the UN Security Council was going to debate the Iran issues? Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldies and drew Israel into a war in Lebanon.
Same thing here. But they think that the Brits won't do anything but talk for weeks on end. Same old play book.
they think that the Brits won't do anything but talk for weeks on end.
Unfortunately, thats what I see happening...
Whatever happened to speaking softly and carrying a BIG MFING STICK?
I hope those sailors make it home safely.
Weren't the Brits getting ready to pull out of Iraq? Maybe this will fire up the British people that they should help stabilize the Middle East.
S
The Reaper
03-24-2007, 08:20
I hope those sailors make it home safely.
Weren't the Brits getting ready to pull out of Iraq? Maybe this will fire up the British people that they should help stabilize the Middle East.
S
I predict the opposite.
Maybe they should create an SOP where when boats are in the water, any craft approaching gets shot first, and questions asked later.
TR
Aoresteen
03-24-2007, 08:59
News sources are reporting that the Brits admit being in Iranian waters (as claimed by the Iranians). Here's what probably happened:
Brits: We were at the corner of Main and 12th streets, Iraqi teritority.
Iranians: Ah, Main & 12th st we claim as ours. Therefore you have admitted to being in Iranian teritority.
Since the Brits were taken by surprise, they must have felt that they were in Iraqi waters. Otherwise, they would have had security out.
My guess is that they checked their GPS and determined that they were in Iraqi waters and forgoe putting out security. Lesson learned. :eek:
The Reaper
03-24-2007, 09:11
My guess is that they checked their GPS and determined that they were in Iraqi waters and forgoe putting out security. Lesson learned. :eek:
Shouldn't it have been a lesson learned the last time it happened?
TR
I predict the opposite.
Ah yes, how silly of me. The ever popular tree huggin' argument of "Well, it never would have happened if we weren't there in the first place." :rolleyes:
Aoresteen
03-24-2007, 10:33
Shouldn't it have been a lesson learned the last time it happened?
TR
Of course. But we're talking about the Brits.. :rolleyes:
The Reaper
03-24-2007, 11:00
Is this the same Royal Navy that was victorious at Trafalgar, that faced the Spanish Armada and the Nazi U-Boat campaign with such stoic bravery against all odds? :confused:
Why not close range and go to "Battle Stations, All Hands to General Quarters, Weapons Free, engage targets at will"?
If the Iranians lost several vessels, as they did when we lit them up last time, what are they going to do about it? Send the rest of the Iranian Navy and AF after them? What an opportunity to eliminate the threat, legally, before it gets any stronger? Maybe we should send out some boarding parties there ourselves? In a "non-confrontational" manner of course, but with two Carrier Battle Groups handy.:rolleyes:
TR
Aoresteen
03-24-2007, 12:57
...If the Iranians lost several vessels, as they did when we lit them up last time, what are they going to do about it? Send the rest of the Iranian Navy and AF after them? What an opportunity to eliminate the threat, legally, before it gets any stronger? Maybe we should send out some boarding parties there ourselves? In a "non-confrontational" manner of course, but with two Carrier Battle Groups handy.:rolleyes:
TR
+1 :D
Noslack71
03-24-2007, 12:59
Jeez, I had no idea that the Iranians were so cocerned and, respectful about everyone playing nice and, staying inside their own borders. Just's gives me a whole new persprective on them!
Noslack
GreenSalsa
03-24-2007, 16:58
My guess is the Brits won't wait 444 days to get their Sailors back.
82ndtrooper
03-24-2007, 17:28
I'm sure Jimmy Carter and Mr. Beckwith and the 1st/75 Rangers would rather keep "Eagle Claw" behind them and not be compared to this situation.
Let's keep things in perspective. :munchin
Manstein
03-24-2007, 19:19
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1563877.ece
Drudge is reporting the sailors are to be tried for "espionage"
A website run by associates of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, reported last night that the Britons would be put before a court and indicted.
Referring to them as “insurgents”, the site concluded: “If it is proven that they deliberately entered Iranian territory, they will be charged with espionage. If that is proven, they can expect a very serious penalty since according to Iranian law, espionage is one of the most serious offences.”
Your move Britain.
The Reaper
03-24-2007, 21:00
[Quote}A website run by associates of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, reported last night that the Britons would be put before a court and indicted.
Referring to them as “insurgents”, the site concluded: “If it is proven that they deliberately entered Iranian territory, they will be charged with espionage. If that is proven, they can expect a very serious penalty since according to Iranian law, espionage is one of the most serious offences.”
[/QUOTE]
Wow!
Imagine what would have happened if a crowd of foreigners deliberately broke into an Iranian Embassy, incarcerated their protected diplomats and stole their classified files and crypto.
How about if someone entered Iranian waters and committed piracy against Iranian vessels and sailors?
Is that a serious offense as well?
Would their be a serious penalty for that?
What if some Anti-Iranian anarchists killed their President while he was here for the UN meeting?
Oh, wait, sorry, we would not let that happen, and I am just doing some wishful thinking.:rolleyes:
TR
Not a lot of options left.
Iran can try to look like the humanitarians/victims of the evil west. Just let them go. Don't think so but it has been done before.
Ask for a formal apology from Britain. Don't think so either but could happen. Britain would have to tell the world they were wrong, attacking Iran and trying to provoke a war with Iran....etc.. A simple sorry won't be enough.
Either way Iran's president has to come out looking strong, or he is gone.
CoLawman
03-25-2007, 00:02
Dicey situation. It looks like the Iranians have the upper hand here. If the Brits, God love them, retaliate it is at their sailors peril. I'm waiting for Colonel Moroney to set the table on this one!:munchin
If the Brits, God love them, retaliate it is at their sailors peril.
All due respect CoLawman, but the sailors are, of course, already in peril. A strong military smackdown in retaliation may protect future servicemembers. I wonder what the world response would be if Britain's answer was "Give us back our 15 men or we'll destroy an installation with 1500 of yours." I also like to think that if, somehow, an SAS or joint rescue team found and recovered those sailors, it would make Iran look weak, incompetent, and out of their league.
It is at times like this that I am thankful that there are folks like SF, who are far smarter in the reality of what is happening.
This whole scenario reminds me of that old boardgame whose tag line was, "You Sunk My Battleship." :confused:
Holly
Team Sergeant
03-25-2007, 08:53
Dicey situation. It looks like the Iranians have the upper hand here. If the Brits, God love them, retaliate it is at their sailors peril. :munchin
I'd rather die as a prisoner knowing my CINC & country attempted to rescue me than sit for weeks, months or years rotting away because of some spineless president/politician doesn't possess the balls to attempt such a rescue. My .02
TS
Updated 11:36 AM ET March 25, 2007
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070325&cat=news&st=newsd8o39ea00&src=ap#
By PAUL AMES
BERLIN (AP) - British Prime Minister Tony Blair said Sunday that the 15 British sailors and marines captured by Iran as they searched for smugglers off the Iraqi coast were not in Iranian waters and warned that Britain viewed their fate as a "fundamental" issue.
I vote for letting the Brits take Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his delegation when they come to talk to the UN.
They aren't coming, they cite the U.S. at fault for passport delays. The U.S. denies this stating only the additional passports requested were delayed at the fault of the Iranians. But what a coincidence, captured Brits, cancelled New York trip.
The Iran dilemma was one of the reasons why the USCG got deployed over there in the first place. The two Iraqi oil platforms right off the Al-Faw Penninsula had been eyed heavily by the Iranians for a long time. They would come out on a daily basis in their Boghammer gunboats and see what kind of $#!t they could get away with.
Taking it to this level is something new- but seeing what they can get away with: This is nothing new.
The Reaper
03-25-2007, 23:09
The Iran dilemma was one of the reasons why the USCG got deployed over there in the first place. The two Iraqi oil platforms right off the Al-Faw Penninsula had been eyed heavily by the Iranians for a long time. They would come out on a daily basis in their Boghammer gunboats and see what kind of $#!t they could get away with.
Taking it to this level is something new- but seeing what they can get away with: This is nothing new.
Who are you?
Have you posted an Introduction, or read the stickies like we ask guests to do?
TR
My bad- I went to fill my intro, right after I sent that one- not a good start to this relationship. Forgive my naivety.
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070326&cat=news&st=newsd8o3v4ro0&src=ap
"Iran is isolated in the world, it has few friends," Burns said in Brussels. "Iranians have to understand they don't run the world, they don't have unlimited power, and we are sending a clear message from the rest of the world ... that we want to contain and block Iranian power, especially on the nuclear side."
Well, it seems that the "red-headed step-child" of the world is either too stupid, or to busy to care. I wonder what is going to happen now that "they" have blown off the U.N.? my .02
Holly
Great, now the Iraqi government we helped produce wants to negotiate with terrorists (Iran) to get the guys back. Wonderful news about the stalwart nature of those in power in Iraq... :confused:
MoonAngel
06-21-2007, 16:36
Found this article interesting....to say the least.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6228342.stm
Iran 'unable to take Australians'
By Frank Gardner
BBC News security correspondent
The Australians have also been patrolling northern Gulf waters
Iranian naval forces in the Gulf tried to capture an Australian Navy boarding team but were vigorously repelled, the BBC has learned.
The incident took place before Iran successfully seized 15 British sailors and Marines in March.
The lessons from the earlier attempt do not appear to have been applied in time by British maritime patrols.
The 15 Britons were searching a cargo boat in the Gulf when they were captured over a boundary dispute.
When Iranian Revolutionary Guards captured the British sailors and Royal Marines in March, it was not exactly their first attempt.
It turns out that Iranian forces made an earlier concerted attempt to seize a boarding party from the Royal Australian Navy.
The Australians, though, to quote one military source, "were having none of it".
The BBC has been told the Australians re-boarded the vessel they had just searched, aimed their machine guns at the approaching Iranians and warned them to back off, using what was said to be "highly colourful language".
The Iranians withdrew, and the Australians were reportedly lifted off the ship by one of their own helicopters.
The circumstances for the Britons in March were slightly different in that they were caught so much by surprise that, had they attempted to repel the Iranians with their limited firepower, they would doubtless have taken very heavy casualties.
But military sources say that what is of concern is that the Royal Navy did not appear to have taken sufficient account of the lessons of the Australian encounter.
In an oblique reference to the threat from Iran, Britain's First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band, has recently admitted there was a need for greater strategic awareness in the northern Gulf.
Team Sergeant
06-21-2007, 16:45
Found this article interesting....to say the least.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6228342.stm
Iran 'unable to take Australians'
By Frank Gardner
BBC News security correspondent
The Australians have also been patrolling northern Gulf waters Iranian naval forces in the Gulf tried to capture an Australian Navy boarding team but were vigorously repelled, the BBC has learned.
The incident took place before Iran successfully seized 15 British sailors and Marines in March.
The lessons from the earlier attempt do not appear to have been applied in time by British maritime patrols.
The 15 Britons were searching a cargo boat in the Gulf when they were captured over a boundary dispute.
When Iranian Revolutionary Guards captured the British sailors and Royal Marines in March, it was not exactly their first attempt.
It turns out that Iranian forces made an earlier concerted attempt to seize a boarding party from the Royal Australian Navy.
The Australians, though, to quote one military source, "were having none of it".
The BBC has been told the Australians re-boarded the vessel they had just searched, aimed their machine guns at the approaching Iranians and warned them to back off, using what was said to be "highly colourful language".
The Iranians withdrew, and the Australians were reportedly lifted off the ship by one of their own helicopters.
The circumstances for the Britons in March were slightly different in that they were caught so much by surprise that, had they attempted to repel the Iranians with their limited firepower, they would doubtless have taken very heavy casualties.
But military sources say that what is of concern is that the Royal Navy did not appear to have taken sufficient account of the lessons of the Australian encounter.
In an oblique reference to the threat from Iran, Britain's First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band, has recently admitted there was a need for greater strategic awareness in the northern Gulf.
Like most iranian military, if you stand your ground they'll turn tail and run home. Glad to see the Aussie Navy won the day!
TS
Mosby Raider
06-22-2007, 11:52
Information was already posted.