.300 WSM

[Classic]

Gentlemen-

I'm building a custom rifle off a Remington 700 donor action I have, and was set on using .308. However, I had the opportunity to shoot a .300 WSM using the same stock, scope, action, barrel, that I have. I enjoyed it, and was very happy with it. However rounds are a bit more expensive and seem to be harder to come by. Rifle will be used for shooting steel/paper at 100-1000 yards. I plan to reload custom loads, regardless of choice.

I am basically asking if anyone has any advice, experience, or recommendations.

Thank you.

[The Reaper]

Do you currently have a complete reloading set-up?

If not, and you don't want a hunting round, stick with the .308.

Do you have access to a 1000 yard range on a regular basis?

If not, the .308 should get it done for you.

TR

[Peregrino]

Since you've decided on a custom rifle, you might want to consider something other than the .300 WSM for your stated purposes. FWIW - This is a topic where art, science, and egos get really mixed up. There's a lot of personal preference/prejudice that leads to people taking "dogmatic" positions that ignore rational thought. IMHO - If you're target shooting price, recoil, and barrel erosion are negatives for any magnum cartridge. Custom guns are an expensive investment; I would recommend A LOT of research before deciding on a particular COA. In any case, the bolt face on the donor receiver will dictate the most "cost effective" build-up. That and short action vs. long action.

I believe that .308 is still a respectable performer in long range competition. I've watched members of the US Palma team shoot .308 at 1000 yds. and I certainly wouldn't want them shooting at me. For cost-effectiveness, i.e. minimal action work (barrel swaps- something relatively common in bench rest circles) I submit that the family of cartridges built on the .308's case lends itself to (arguably) better (than .308) target rounds, e.g. .260 Rem, 7mm-08, and .243 (IF YOU RELOAD/HAVE ACCESS TO PREMIUM AMMO!). A close relative, the 6.5-.284, is a recent favorite in long-range competitions. Stick to a family of similar cartridges and the biggest expense is the barrel.

I'm not disparaging the WSM (family), in fact my gunsmith is currently building me a 7mm WSM on a Win 70 action for longrange competition (600-1000 yds.). But - I've already got the other bases covered (and the gunsmith is also a good friend). If I get another action for the right price, I'll look into getting it built in .300 WSM or .325 WSM for hunting.

Gene Econ and Longrange 1947 will probably be along shortly to expand the discussion.

:munchin Peregrino

[Classic]

The Reaper, Peregrino-

I reload, and I have access to a 1000 yard range. I have a pretty good selection of hunting rounds already at home, and want this to be a custom target rifle based on a tactical platform, not benchrest. I will be using it to develop my marksmanship skills past 600 yards. I originally started this build with the intention of .308. Cheaper ammo, very common, and this specific round has been doing this stuff for longer than I have been alive. We use it in all branches of the military, and it is proven. However I kinda got a little excited about shooting my friends WSM and read some more 'pro' articles/reviews. Due to your points, and me realizing what I already have, the choice is easy.

Peregrino, you brought up the point of bolt face. My donor action is chambered in .243 and the bolt face is .473. Only work I would need to do is get the action trued/lapped and my new barrel installed/chambered. I have forgotten about the barrel life of Magnums and that brings up a good point. I have heard of certain .308 barrels going 6k+ rounds of sub MOA accuracy. Some even 10k. I plan to shoot the shit out of this gun, and knowing it will last a long time until the next barrel swap is a huge selling point.

I have been researching .308 for around 6 months now, and until last week, I was set. So when its complete I'll post pics and spec's if anyone is interested. Thanks for the help Gentlemen. Still willing to hear any suggestions etc.

[The Reaper]

Nightforce optics, Badger rings and bases, Lilja barrel, McMillan stock.

Frankly, I concur with Peregrino, the 6.5-.284 is a better long range round. If you are stuck on the .30 bore, the .300 Win Mag has a lot more data and history available for long range shooting. The .30-.338 is probably a bit better as a 1000 yard round, if you do not mind case forming.

TR

[Gene Econ]

I have a pretty good selection of hunting rounds already at home, and want this to be a custom target rifle based on a tactical platform, not benchrest. I will be using it to develop my marksmanship skills past 600 yards. Still willing to hear any suggestions etc.

Classic:

A custom target rifle and a tactical rifle are mutually exclusive for 1000 yard work. You will also see distinct differences at 600 yards. There is no compromise so choose one or the other.

The Palma rifles Peregrino talks about are single shot quad locks with 30 inch barrels and the shooters smoke the 155 Palma Match bullet out of the rifle. 2000 rounds from a barrel if one is lucky.

If you are going to sharpen your marksmanship skills, you need to compete in NRA High Power. I advise you research High Power to see what the disciplines entail and what types of rifles are allowed. You won't shoot a 300 WSM over the course but can (if you want to lose badly) in F-Class.

I liken a 300 WSM to a 30-06. About the same powder capacity and the same ideal bullet weight for cartridge efficiency. I believe the 300 SM is ideally suited for a 180 grain bullet. I figure barrel life will be 2000 - 3000 max.

I figure it is your choice -- I wouldn't because a .260, 6/5-06, or 6.5/284 will smoke a 300 WSM to 1000 yards.

Gene

[Classic]

The Reaper-

I have chosen to go with US Optics, Seekins Precision Base/Rings, McMillan A4 stock, and a Schneider 1:12 twist barrel, 6 grove.

I have heard people praising .260 or 6.5/284 over .30 cals a lot for 1000 yard guns. However, I have to admit my ignorance with either of these rounds. Secondly, 1000 yards is something I will have to work up to, and pretty much where a .308's performance ends. From my understanding a 6.5/284 would have to be equipped with a Long Action. I am a southpaw, and left handed actions are pretty rough to come by at a decent price. I happen to have the short action available; have my McMillan stock inletted for SA, picatanny base is SA, the Schneider 30 cal tube, etc. Changing it now would cost more money than finishing it. I was told the 6.5/284 can be loaded into a short action by removing the bolt, loading, then replacing the bolt. Like I mentioned, I am ignorant about this caliber and forgive me if I am incorrect.

Gene Econ-

Thank you for your post and the points you make. Again, you are another who recommends or mentions a 6.5/284 for a 1000 yard rifle. Sadly my Fiance, (wife in 2 months) doesn't know it yet, but I am already thinking of my next build. :D I was considering either going with a .338 Lapua, or looking into a one of the 6.5 family calibers. (284/06 etc) But for now, I am worried about my current situation as well as learning to effectivly use what caliber I have to its max potential before stepping it up a notch. I am confident in the 100-600 yard range. Past that, I will require a lot of practice and more experience. Like Peregrino mentioned, a .308 will provide cheaper reloads, less recoil, and slower barrel erosion which will ultimately result in more practice.

For this rifle, I have pretty much made up my mind to stick with .308.

However I am going to do a lot of research on that 6.5/284. Does anyone here have any experience with it? I'll be on Google and another forum I use to learn more about it until then. Thanks again Gentlemen.

[TonyY]

I agree with Gene. My choice for a 100 yard target rifle would be with a 6.5mm. I have a 260 with a 20" heavy Pac Nor barrel on it and it will hit at a 1000 all day with a 142 gr SMK. I also have a 6.5-06 with a 21" Hart barrel on it and that too will hit at a 1000 all day. From what I have seen with 6.5s is that they are similiar to a 308 out to 500 and after that they match or exceed the 300 WM. My 6.5-06 needs about 29moa to hit at 1000. The short barrel 260 needs about 34. I don't have a 6.5-284 but I have shot them. They shoot well and the recoil is light. Because of the velocity I wouldn't expect more than 2000-2500 rds before a rebarrel.

I also have a 30-338 that I like. I just put it together last year so I only have about 400 rds through it so far. I don't fire form cases, I just neck up 7mm rem cases. The Nolser cases seem to work well as do plain old win cases. The win cases just require a little more prep work before they are match quality.

George Gardner has been shooting a 7mm WSM and he has been doing very well in many of the sniper matches around. He also builds very good rifles no matter what the cal.

[The Reaper]

The Reaper-

I have chosen to go with US Optics, Seekins Precision Base/Rings, McMillan A4 stock, and a Schneider 1:12 twist barrel, 6 grove.

I would be cautious of picking the barrel and twist before deciding the caliber and bullet.

TR

[Classic]

George Gardner has been shooting a 7mm WSM and he has been doing very well in many of the sniper matches around. He also builds very good rifles no matter what the cal.

TonyY- GA Precision is where I am going to have the smith work done. I emailed him about it yesterday and he recommended building a .260 for a LR round.

The Reaper- I was set on .308 and using 175's. Basically I questioned myself halfway through and made this post. Despite the mistake of doing so, I have learned from everyone's information and I appreciate it. I'll just stick to what i was doing and ask later when the next build comes around.

[Peregrino]

TonyY- GA Precision is where I am going to have the smith work done. I emailed him about it yesterday and he recommended building a .260 for a LR round.

Classic - GA Precision is giving you good advice (and it isn't costing extra). Consider the source; this is one time free advice is worth something. In the long run (range) you'll be much happier with the .260. With the right barrel and powder it has less recoil, less barrel erosion (believe it or not), and better accuracy. BC (ballistic coefficient) is the key to long range accuracy. The .308 can't use the best .30 cal bullets; not enough powder capacity. A 1:12 barrel may not (168s yes, 175/180 maybe, 200+ definitely not) maximize the potential of the high BC bullets either. If you haven't already bought the barrel, you can still ponder the variables (change your mind).

Gene - Forgot about the 6.5-06, course I've been trying to stick with SAs. (I respect, but am not personally interested in acquiring a 6.5-.284 so that doesn't count.) How does the idea of a 6.5 WSM grab you? My buddy has a custom reamer and built one with a Lilja barrel JFTFOI. He's happy with the performance but seems to prefer the 7mm WSM for serious shooting. Something about Sierra's 175 MK he can't pass up.

Peregrino

[HOLLiS]

Peregrino, I just check my Sierra manual and they don't post ballistic coefficients anymore. Last time I looked, 7mm had probably the best at that time.

[Gene Econ]

Gene - Forgot about the 6.5-06, course I've been trying to stick with SAs. (I respect, but am not personally interested in acquiring a 6.5-.284 so that doesn't count.) How does the idea of a 6.5 WSM grab you? My buddy has a custom reamer and built one with a Lilja barrel JFTFOI. He's happy with the performance but seems to prefer the 7mm WSM for serious shooting. Something about Sierra's 175 MK he can't pass up. Peregrino

Peregrino:

I have no experience with the 6.5 WSM so can't comment too much. I do believe a shorter and fatter cartridge case probably burns the powder more efficiently than a long skinny case though. The issue may be a supply of relatively inexpensive brass. Not sure what the barrel life would be -- probably about the same as any other magnum.

Gene