Canine Analgesia

[ccrn]

I know this seems like an odd post but recalling the use of chondroitin in dogs in a past thread, and the fact that some of you have vet training I thought Id ask this here.

I have an eight year old female gratedane that appears to be suffering low grade pain as evidenced by persistant shivering no matter how warm the house is (I live in a cold clime). I cannot isolate a specific injury by palpation or observation.

When given ASA po BiD the shivering stops. Im calling the vet tomorrow to talk to them about long term tx but I was wondering what some of you might have experience with in treating pain associated with older age in dogs (not necessarily a specific insult).

This particular animal can do about 1.25 mil at 8:30 pace before wanting to stop, can scale a 5 ft cliff with no assistance, and tolerates a two mile walk (lots of running) off leash in the woods no problem. Weight is about 120 lb (shes always been skinnny) and coat and eyes are shiny.

Ive done some preliminary searching on this and it seems that ASA is still the OTC of choice. I also notice that all the recommended NSAIDs and condroitin products are not the same as for people (brands at least).

If this is inapporpriate please delete-
Thanks

[MolonLabe]

Just a lurker here.

I have a 110 pound Akita that has always been active with me. I have had him on Fish oil and Glucosamine and Chondroitin.

Both are precursors to cartilage formation so the initial theory on its usage was to help the current tissue regenerate. Human studies showed 1500 mg for 30-60 days before signs of significant or measurable change in cartilage. Bromaline comes from pineapple stem and has shown to be an anti-inflammatory agent that is fine for dogs as well.

I don’t have to tell you that large dogs like yours tend to age a bit faster, but with the activity level she is used too a long life is ahead I’m sure.

Good luck.

[jatx]

ccrn, sorry to hear that your pal is feeling poorly.

If you haven't already, I would have her checked by a good vet. We had a terrier begin shivering like that a few days ago after about a week of gastric upset. She passed away a few hours later. Never can be too careful. :(

[ccrn]

Yep, she'll be going to the vet...

But without a specific insult or cause Im willing to bet theyll jsut put her on a basic regimine.

Theyre a good large and small rural provider, but it helps to have some ideas when walking in the door. Theyre willing to try more cutting edge modalities if shown examples.

Anyway, its no big deal jsut old age catching up to her Im pretty sure, possibly some arthritis-
Thanks for the replies

[Doczilla]

Dogs don't do well with ibuprofen that we use for humans (causes renal failure), though there are some analogues in the same drug class which are fine for dogs, like Rimadyl (Carprofen, which isn't used on humans). Glucosamine/chondroitin are becoming more common additives for dog food for older dogs. The evidence is still forthcoming (for people OR dogs), but they seem to be safe so far, and there is a suggestion in some of the evidence that they work.

Like people, running and walking can be hard on the knees and hips. There is such a thing as hydrotherapy for dogs (if you have a provider locally), but you may consider shifting some of her exercise to more low impact exercise, specifically swimming. If she can swim. Getting a life jacket can help, as she isn't struggling to stay afloat, but simply paddling around.

For a few more resources: http://www.fda.gov/cvm/nsaids.htm

'zilla

[x SF med]

What do you feed her? There was a MAJOR food recall - check the press - it sounds like the same symptoms - has she been vomiting too?

From Newsday online:

Q: What brands and types of pet food are being recalled?

A: The recall involves Ontario-based Menu Foods' "cuts and gravy" style cat and dog food packaged from Dec. 3 to March 6. The wet food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, is packaged in cans and small foil pouches. The food was sold under numerous brand names _ 40 cat food brands and 50 dog food brands as of Monday.

Q: What happened to the food that led to this recall?

A: The recall started after reports that at least 10 pets _ one dog and nine cats _ suffered kidney failure and died after eating the food, according the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. The FDA on Monday still had investigators at plants in Pennsauken, N.J., and Emporia, Kan., trying to determine the source of the problem.

Q: Where was this food sold?

A: The pet food was sold in the United States, Mexico and Canada at major store chains, including Wal-Mart, Kroger and Safeway.

Q: What should I do if I have some of this pet food in my cupboard?

A: The FDA says stop feeding it to your pet. Many of the major store chains are also granting refunds for returned food.

Q. How do I know if my pet is sick as a result of eating contaminated food? What are the symptoms?

A: Signs of kidney failure include loss of appetite, lethargy and vomiting.

Q. What should I do if I already gave some of this food to my pet? Do I need to take my pet to a doctor?

A: It's best to seek advice from a veterinarian in such situations, according to the FDA.

Q. Who can I call with questions?

A: Menu Foods has a consumer hot line at 1-866-895-2708. The FDA is asking those with sick or dead pets to call FDA state complaint coordinators. A list of contacts for such coordinators is available at http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/complain.html.

Q: What precautions are being taken to make sure it doesn't happen again?

A: The company says it changed suppliers as of March 6, and has increased testing of raw materials and finished goods.

[doctorrich]

Gentlemen,

please excuse the necropost.

Regarding canine analgesia, there are several new meds available to GP veterinarians. Your vet can tailor individual drugs to the specific patient needs.

Glucosamine and chondroitin... now that's another matter entirely, believe it or not.

I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes, but I'm open to questions about this and other veterinary topics.

[11Ber]

My wife is a LVT. Anyone with any animal questions shoot them this way and I will bounce off her.

[doctorrich]

Glucosamine/chondroitin are becoming more common additives for dog food for older dogs. The evidence is still forthcoming (for people OR dogs), but they seem to be safe so far, and there is a suggestion in some of the evidence that they work.



Doczilla is quite correct regarding "joint supplements," like glucosamine +/- chondroitin +/- sulfur or other "MSM" containing formulations.

My experience prescribing analgesics for dogs as a veterinarian:

Glucosamine and other supplement efficacy is highly subjective; some folks swear their dogs do better on them (than nothing), and some say they notice zero difference when their dogs receive them. I get about 20-25% who say they are helpful and if that's the case, more power to you. There is almost ZERO chance of overdosage with a generic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement with dogs... I routinely prescribe 1500mg/dog twice daily, even with a smaller, lighter beast.

Rimadyl (carprofen) was popular a few years ago. What made it unpopular with doctors and owners was that some dogs had some serious drug-induced hepatitis as a result of administration. That is why veterinarians required regular blood tests.

Metacam (meloxicam) is a newer NSAID with fewer side-effects in dogs. I prefer it for long-term administration, if needed.

Deramaxx (deracoxib) is a COX-2 inhibitor (like human Celebrex). It's strong. So strong, as a matter of fact, it's not my primary go-to NSAID. Short-term use is fine, but it has an increased incidence of vomiting, diarrhea, or gastric ulceration.

And there's other options. Who wants more veterinary data?

[Red Flag 1]

doctorrich

If you look at Roguish Lawyer's Redneck Dogshow, you will see that there are a lot of folks on this site that own and just love dogs. I have four rescue dogs myself, and have a keen interest in their welfare. You're my go to guy with questions about my four girls.

RF 1

[doctorrich]

You're welcomed to PM me with any questions. I love doing rescues and I think they make the best pets, period.

If I don't have the answers for you, I'll find out.

[Sacamuelas]

Dr. Rich-
Welcome to the site.

We now have the full spectrum of health care professionals on this site providing expert input and insight into their particular specialties for the medics using this site as a resource. A vet is a welcome addition to the site.

Let's see.....
Trauma surgeons, MD, NP, 18D, DMD, DVM, PharmD, RN, EMT, Rad. Techs, AND SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO STAYED IN A HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS LAST NIGHT too. :D