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Surgicalcric
04-14-2004, 09:14
It has come to my attention, while responding to the FAK (home/vehicle) thread, there are many here who have never been in the medical field as a care giver and subsequently may lack sound first-aid training. While there are many good threads in this forum which cover a multitude of illnesses and injuries, from the perspective and training level of a wide range of medical fields, we rarely if ever cover the most basic of injuries and illnesses. I personally believe we may take for granted that everyone here is able to treat the most basic of scenarios given the advanced scenarios and subject matter we present here.

I would therefor like to put this out there. If there are any scenarios/illnesses/injuries anyone would like to see discussed, that has not been previously covered, please feel free to contact one of us with the request or post the question here in the open. We will help you where we can.


James D

myclearcreek
04-14-2004, 14:35
1) Emergency snakebite treatment recommendations seem to change every few years. The snakebit kit you recommended seems like a great idea for my family, but in a situation where that is not available, nearest hospital is 30 minutes away after you reach a vehicle, and ambulance response time is 30 minutes on a perfect day. We have both copperheads and diamondback rattlers here. There was also a mature adult velvet tail rattler spotted last year, which is still around somewhere. 12 year old, 90 pounds, asthmatic male or 19 year old, 6', 230 pound male. Different treatments?

Sacamuelas
04-14-2004, 14:39
Originally posted by myclearcreek
1) Emergency snakebite treatment recommendations seem to change every few years. The snakebit kit you recommended seems like a great idea for my family, but in a situation where that is not available, nearest hospital is 30 minutes away after you reach a vehicle, and ambulance response time is 30 minutes on a perfect day. We have both copperheads and diamondback rattlers here. There was also a mature adult velvet tail rattler spotted last year, which is still around somewhere. 12 year old, 90 pounds, asthmatic male or 19 year old, 6', 230 pound male. Different treatments?

MCC-
Snake bite info thread (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=634)

DunbarFC
04-14-2004, 14:44
How about what to do about twisted ankles, knees etc ?

I play in an over 30 soccer league and with the horrible field we play on and the fitness level of a lot of the folks we wind up with a lot of injuries

Invariably there is the ' leave his cleats on ' ' no take them off ! ' debate that rages

So what should we do for a turned ankle or a twisted knee ?

Also our " First Aid Kit " is rarely anything more than one or two chemical ice packs

myclearcreek
04-14-2004, 14:53
Originally posted by Sacamuelas
MCC-
Snake bite info thread (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=634)


Oops. Caught me napping. :( Thanks for the link.

Sacamuelas
04-14-2004, 14:58
Originally posted by DunbarFC

So what should we do for a turned ankle or a twisted knee ?


Here you go DunbarFC... I admit it is a little more severe an injury than you will likely see. Good info though. I can't remember offhand a specific one on ankles....

Twisted Knee (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=257)


MCC- no problem. :cool:

DunbarFC
04-14-2004, 15:12
Thanks Sac I appreciate it

We've seen some pretty nasty stuff over the years but that does take the cake

myclearcreek
04-14-2004, 15:12
Originally posted by Sacamuelas
MCC- no problem. :cool:


Thanks. Great thread on snakes...and just my kind, too, lol. I HATE those things.

I would be surprised if you encounter asthmatics as a routine in the field, but it concerns me that my son may have an unusually severe asthma attic as a result of trauma. While I am normally calm in the face of an emergency, that possibility is one I have been concerned about as he grows older and takes more risks. To date, the nebulizer has stabilized him enough to get him to the hospital, but I am not sure what to do if it didn't, other than call 911 and/or DRIVE, depending on the sitaution. I keep praying he will outgrow this, but he is almost thirteen and it hasn't lessened in severity.

Surgicalcric
04-14-2004, 15:44
DunbarFC:

Treatment for sprains and strains are pretty much the same. The biggest thing is knowing its a sprain/strain and not a fracture or some sort of other torn connective tissue. This cannot be done in the field.

DunbarFC
04-14-2004, 15:46
Originally posted by Surgicalcric
DunbarFC:

Treatment for sprains and strains are pretty much the same. The biggest thing is knowing its a sprain/strain and not a fracture or some sort of other torn connective tissue. This cannot be done in the field.

Ok is there anyway right there with the poor guy sprawled out on the sidelines waiting for the game to end for someone to drive him to the hospital which it might be ?

Surgicalcric
04-14-2004, 15:56
HUH? I did not follow that at all.

DunbarFC
04-14-2004, 15:59
Are there any signs to look for that would lead one to say this person needs to see a doctor now as opposed to waiting a bit

Is there anything to do for them besides here have an ice pack in the mean time

Surgicalcric
04-14-2004, 16:13
The level of injury will dictate when he should see a MD. Do you guys not have a sports trainer or anything out there with you?
If not, one of you should pony up and get some training.

A nice cheap SAM splint or 2 and roll of 4" elastic ace wrap for splinting.

Eagle5US
04-14-2004, 18:21
with ankles...
1. Crunching noises are bad
2. If it no longer looks right-there is generally something wrong
3. Immediate swelling usually indicates a significant sprain secondary to the tearing of vascular structures. If it swells-radiate it.
4. With significant ankle injuries, always press on the top of the fibula (just below the knee on the outside)-enough torque can fracture the proximal tibia
5. If there is a cut on the suspected sprain...radiate it-it may be an open fracture that has receeded back into the skin.
6. Immobilize as close to 90 degrees as possible, make certain that the toes are still pink and the nails still blanch.

Ankle sprains suck...no getting around it.

Eagle

DunbarFC
04-14-2004, 18:34
Thanks Eagle and Cric I apprecaite it

My league is definitely on the cheap - no uniforms so we don't have any trainers on the field

We did have a doctor on the team for a bit which was super handy - especially when my foot made that crunching snapping sound Eagle described a few years ago

Now it's just a short prayer and hope you don't hurt yourself.


I appreciate the advice , but I hope it doesn't sound bad if I say I hope I never have to use it !

Pandora
04-14-2004, 19:57
MCC wrote:

I would be surprised if you encounter asthmatics as a routine in the field, but it concerns me that my son may have an unusually severe asthma attic as a result of trauma. While I am normally calm in the face of an emergency, that possibility is one I have been concerned about as he grows older and takes more risks. To date, the nebulizer has stabilized him enough to get him to the hospital, but I am not sure what to do if it didn't, other than call 911 and/or DRIVE, depending on the sitaution. I keep praying he will outgrow this, but he is almost thirteen and it hasn't lessened in severity.

I would also be interested in treatments for adult asthmatics. Attacks are infrequent, but severe for mid-30's male, non-smoker, rare drinker. Previous history of severe allergic reactions, pericarditis, frequent sinusitis (steriod spray). Runs, walks, arm routine nightly 1-2 hours. Percursors include "allergy eyes"- swollen,puffy, grey pouches beneath eyes.

Surgicalcric
04-15-2004, 10:29
Does the individual have an inhaler (albuterol, advair, etc) or a nebulizer at home? If not I would suggest contacting MD to get one of each if the attacks are recurring.

What are the allergic reactions to: pollen, animal dander, bee stings, etc?

Maya
04-15-2004, 10:31
MVA's Whether here or over in the current AO's this is a common tramua situation that will face.

Thanks,

Maya

Surgicalcric
04-15-2004, 10:36
Maya:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=747

Any specific questions please feel free to ask.

crew341
04-15-2004, 17:09
Since I spend most of my time in a blackhawk;

Scenario:

A hard landing has occurred and a pilot is unconscious and needs to be removed from the aircraft quickly. He can either be removed from the cockpit door or by tilting the seat back and removing him though the cabin. No medical equipment is available besides a basic first aid kit and none of the crewmembers have any advanced medical training beyond CLS.

What do you do? What is the best method of extracting the pilot from the aircraft considering the expected neck/back/leg injuries from a hard landing? Obviously, it is unit SOP to only remove a crewmember of a greater threat exists (fire), so the removal procedure needs to be quick, yet not cause any further injury.

Thanks,

Andy

NousDefionsDoc
04-15-2004, 17:21
Andy,
Training or combat? It makes a difference as to what I would do.

After you tilt the seatback, does it lay flat? Can you unbolt the seat?

Surgicalcric
04-15-2004, 18:54
Edited out:

crew341
04-15-2004, 21:29
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Andy,
Training or combat? It makes a difference as to what I would do.

After you tilt the seatback, does it lay flat? Can you unbolt the seat?

Training or combat?....both, and the reasons why the methods differ. The seat can be tilted nearly flat but cannot be unbolted. Looking forward to your responses.


Andy

NousDefionsDoc
04-15-2004, 21:34
I'm not a helo dude, but...

Combat - He's coming out however I can get him out. When those things are on the ground, they're bullet magnets for some reason.

Fire - Coming out now however. I don't like to be burned.

Peace time - no danger of fire - CRIP!!!!

I kind of like the idea of laying the seat down. I thought maybe we could use it for an FE backboard, but at any rate, probably less twisting than out a window. I'd have to dry run it to see for sure.

Just my 2 pesos.

Surgicalcric
04-15-2004, 21:55
Non-combat scenario: Lay the seat back. One person holds C-spine after removing the helmet, one person on the PT's right side takes hold at the waist and shoulder by the flight suit and same on the left side. The person holding C-spine calls all movements and the PT is slid backwards out of the seat and gently laid onto the floor of the helo. Call for EVAC.

If the bird is a Medi-vac there should be a folding stretcher the PT could be placed on instead of on the floor. The stretcher could be held in place while resting the other end on the headrest of the seat.

Combat scenario: PT comes out as fast as possible. I would probably still lay the seat back and bring them out the cargo door as opposed to trying to snake them around the joystick and out the door. Same holds true for stretcher as above.

Fire: Same as combat. Same holds true for stretcher as above.

NDD, good thinking on the FE stretcher.

DoctorDoom
04-20-2004, 20:11
x

DoctorDoom
04-20-2004, 20:14
x

Surgicalcric
04-20-2004, 20:19
DD:

No LSB's in combat on the helo unless its a medivac and using one for trainup for combat would be counter-productive, IMHO if you wont have them when the bullets are flying. As for the other, the flight helmet would need to be removed because of its size. Also, as per the scenario and equipment noted by crew341, I do not believe a C-collar would be part of a CLS's equip, nor would the LSB.

HTH.

DoctorDoom
04-20-2004, 20:42
x

crew341
04-21-2004, 00:48
Thanks for all the responses,

I hope to never have to put any of this info to use, but to be honest, if bullets are flying or the aircraft is melting, I will do wahtever it takes to remove the crewmember. Also, in any other scenario, I believe I would try to wait for assistance before moving him.


Now, anybody need aviation support? :D Seems like every month we are doing more and more SF missions. It is great training though, and we are happy to help out. I'll see you at HFF this Friday. ;

-Andy

Maya
04-21-2004, 12:53
As to the removal of the helmet.

I would assume that it would be a 2 person effort, same as motorcycle type, where one stabilizes while the other disconnects straps. Then switch, previous holder pulls apart and off helmet while then the strap remover holds pt's head rigid. Is this correct?

Maya