Lights and Home Defense

[chuterigger]

Reaper,

Thank you for your hard earned EXCELENT ADVICE

The only thing I disagree with you on is the "granpa" 12ga, while I agree that a tricked out M4 "may in some localities...CALI, DC..." be somewhat a liability in home defense, I do not think there is any evidence to a person ever being convicted mearly because of this, without serious underlying issues, are you aware of any?

Personally I beleive a home defense weapon WITHOUT at least a light is a terrible liability, making a tired and startled homeowner much more prone to taking a life accidentally or without ligitimate reason.

A great comprimise I guess would be a 28" vent rib bbl 870 with surefire forend:D

[Team Sergeant]

Personally I beleive a home defense weapon WITHOUT at least a light is a terrible liability, making a tired and startled homeowner much more prone to taking a life accidentally or without ligitimate reason.


You may believe, but I know, a weapon with a light without proper training is a bigger liability.

Team Sergeant

[chuterigger]

You may believe, but I know, a weapon with a light without proper training is a bigger liability.

Team Sergeant

Intrigueing sir,

I cannot understand how, in a static home defense senerio, identifying your target with white light instead of shooting at a shadow in the dark could increase liability.

Is it a killer or the neighborhood retard? Weapon?

How can these things be determined in the dark while confused, tired and startled, without a weaponlight?

I did not intend to take a great post about weaponry and get it off topic on training, instead the discussion was about the inherent liability of a "military" type weapon for home defense.

Please excuse my ignorance.

[Team Sergeant]

Intrigueing sir,

I cannot understand how, in a static home defense senerio, identifying your target with white light instead of shooting at a shadow in the dark could increase liability.

Is it a killer or the neighborhood retard? Weapon?

How can these things be determined in the dark while confused, tired and startled, without a weaponlight?

I did not intend to take a great post about weaponry and get it off topic on training, instead the discussion was about the inherent liability of a "military" type weapon for home defense.

Please excuse my ignorance.

First off fill out your profile if you wish to discuss this issue with a Quiet Professional. You might want to re-read the rules and comply.

Team Sergeant

[Pete]

....Personally I beleive a home defense weapon WITHOUT at least a light is a terrible liability,......


Any homeowner should be able to jump up out of bed and move to any location of the house with all the lights out. With no lights the intruder is at a serious disadvantage.

Who should be in the house, their size, shape in the darkness, where they should be and would be coming from. That nasty little SA thing again.

Now if I can just get my wife to quit moving things aroound on me. The dogs have been stepped on more than once and have learned.

Pete

Who heard a scratching sound at the back door one night and moved next to it. When the guy stuck his hand through the screen I said "You don't want to do that." By the time I finished saying that he had launched about 10' up in the air, came down and was half way down the block. I don't chase people when I'm barefoot. That was the only problem I ever had at that address.

[mugwump]

Intrigueing sir,

I cannot understand how, in a static home defense senerio, identifying your target with white light instead of shooting at a shadow in the dark could increase liability.

Is it a killer or the neighborhood retard? Weapon?

...or am I shaking with adrenaline, pointing a G23 at my son with my finger on trigger, because the only light I have is attached to a weapon?

An honestly friendly hint: stating that a weapon light without training is a liability is not the same as advocating "...shooting at a shadow in the dark..." You can stake out a position around here if it's based upon personal, relevant and informed experience, but your stay will be short if you put words into a QP's mouth.

[chuterigger]

...or am I shaking with adrenaline, pointing a G23 at my son with my finger on trigger, because the only light I have is attached to a weapon?

An honestly friendly hint: stating that a weapon light without training is a liability is not the same as advocating "...shooting at a shadow in the dark..." You can stake out a position around here if it's based upon personal, relevant and informed experience, but your stay will be short if you put words into a QP's mouth.

Why is Reaper's good post being spammed with a dogpile?

How am I "putting words" in anyones mouth?

I said,

"while I agree that a tricked out M4 "may in some localities...CALI, DC..." be somewhat a liability in home defense, I do not think there is any evidence to a person ever being convicted mearly because of this, without serious underlying issues"

Because I believe this is a myth that has been perpetuated too long, We have all heard it, but I do not believe anyone can site a single case where someone has been wrongly convicted of manslaughter in a home defense senario just because of the type of weapon used, or if they used certain ammo...etc

You may attract more suspicion, but if the facts are in your corner and you are not breaking the law otherwise, use any legal firearm you want.

[Peregrino]

CR - Liability has more than one meaning. You misinterpreted TS's usage. To clarify - a weapon mounted light, used by an untrained person, can be a TACTICAL liability. Pointing a gun at someone because the only light you have is mounted on it exposes you to LEGAL liability. Both are reasons why I investigate strange noises with a flashlight vs. a weapon light. The operative mindset is "prudent". If I'm ever unfortunate enough to be in combat again, I'll be happy to use an M4 w/Surefire 910. Until then, I'll be tempering my actions with an eye to the inevitable court case. If you (or anyone else) wants to continue this discussion - open a new thread (or better yet revive any one of a multitude of pre-existing "home defense" threads). None of this has anything to do with "Rifles, Carbines, and Accessories, a Primer." Peregrino

[chuterigger]

Peregrino,

Thank you for removing my posts from Reapers excellent thread, I did not mean to detract from the topic, and agree with 99% of what he said.

[Peregrino]

Sorry, wish I could claim credit. I put a stop to the hijack, somebody else cleaned up the mess. Admins & Moderators tend to cover each other like that. FWIW - there are a number of threads that address your concerns/issues. Some of them are even interesting reading. The search button is your friend. If you have something to contribute (in a relevant thread), please feel free. Peregrino

[TF Kilo]

In regards to my state's laws, taclight or no..

1) Lethal force is a legal course of action when an occupied dwelling is burglarized.

I know my house, my wife does too. I have 2 weapons in the house with mounted taclights, and those are the weapons that we respond to any unusual noises with, after whispering a go-out into my german shepherds ear.

I don't have kids, and when we go to bed anyone in the house after that point had to breach something to get inside... which establishes intent of burglary, which leads to #1.

Situation dictates response, and if I want light I have lights in the house, as well as on my weapon. If my dog is heard downstairs doing anything other than puttering then returning, then I have EVERY reason to clear the house with aggressive intent, using the weapon mounted lights.

If she comes back with only saliva around the mouth, then I'm turning on the home lights to find out what aroused my suspicions. No need for a taclight and coenciding barrel orientation.

There's a escalation of force matrix... but I legally and wholly reserve the right to jump into that matrix at the level that I deem necessary to contain a situation. Even if it means primer ignition is the first thing I do.

All of this is supported by state law, and although legal, I remain cognisant of the fact that if I pull the trigger it's going to cost me dearly... but at that point I will still have a lifetime to make the money to pay the fees.