Air Force Academy cheating scandal grows

[Monsoon65]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070216/ap_on_re_us/brf_academy_cheating

AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. - The Air Force Academy said Thursday that 24 freshman cadets have now admitted cheating on a test and 12 others are under investigation but have denied wrongdoing.

The school originally said 19 students had admitted cheating and nine others were under investigation.

Two-thirds of the cases involve athletes, Air Force Academy spokesman Johnny Whitaker told The Gazette. The academy did not say what teams were involved.

The cheating occurred when cadets obtained answers to an upcoming test and forwarded them through an Internet social group and private computer messages, officials said.

The test was part of a weekly series of exams on general knowledge about the Air Force. The exams do not affect cadets' grade-point averages but are required for students to advance to their second year.

The cadet honor code forbids lying, stealing and cheating and tolerating anyone who does. Punishment for violating the code can include expulsion.

Academy Superintendent Lt. Gen. John Regni restricted all 4,000 cadets to campus last weekend and closed the only bar on the site for what he called a "strategic pause" for cadets to reflect on the honor code.



The only "strategic pause" that Gen Regni should have given them was a formation to watch the cheaters get kicked off campus and out of the AF. Instead he grounds them.

[tk27]

The only thing wrong is that they got caught.

Frankly, Burke was right, "The age of chivalry is gone", and our nation should drop this Knighthood pretense and realize the Mongols are a better role model.
We need guys who majored in triple double cross and garroting people in the dark, not more Alden Pyle’s. More OSS types and less OSP types.

If we we're serious about the "global war on terrorism”, we would rename the Air Force Academy to Markus Wolf Tech. And then begin recruiting from a pool of scholars without anglofied last names who happen to excel in the fields of identity fraud, charming the pants off of women, and grand larceny.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

The only thing wrong is that they got caught.

Frankly, Burke was right, "The age of chivalry is gone", and our nation should drop this Knighthood pretense and realize the Mongols are a better role model.
We need guys who majored in triple double cross and garroting people in the dark, not more Alden Pyle’s. More OSS types and less OSP types.

If we we're serious about the "global war on terrorism”, we would rename the Air Force Academy to Markus Wolf Tech. And then begin recruiting from a pool of scholars without anglofied last names who happen to excel in the fields of identity fraud, charming the pants off of women, and grand larceny.

Interesting. So you think that officers should not have to obey rules and regulations and that when you give someone a directive that it is not important that you can trust them to carry it out both in spirit and ,if possible, to the letter? You feel that taking short cuts now in an academic environment before they are placed out there in situations where their poor choices can not only cost lives but impact on the future of you and your family is acceptable to you? It is okay that one of these individuals who will take the easy way out might be making decisions for someone in your family? We have many of the folks with the skill sets you have identified, but all of those with whom and for whom I have worked had a core set of values that began with integrity, loyalty, honesty, professionalism, etc. If anyone one of these clowns made it to any unit in which I was in command and cheated, lied to me, or showed an inability to be trusted he would be gone.

[tk27]

Post
Sir, you are correct. I made a brain fart and applied a view that is not applicable to this case. It will not happen again.
Though not in this context, I will standby my sentiment with regards to the mongols and subterfuge.

[The Reaper]

The only thing wrong is that they got caught.

Frankly, Burke was right, "The age of chivalry is gone", and our nation should drop this Knighthood pretense and realize the Mongols are a better role model.
We need guys who majored in triple double cross and garroting people in the dark, not more Alden Pyle’s. More OSS types and less OSP types.

If we we're serious about the "global war on terrorism”, we would rename the Air Force Academy to Markus Wolf Tech. And then begin recruiting from a pool of scholars without anglofied last names who happen to excel in the fields of identity fraud, charming the pants off of women, and grand larceny.

Yeah, lets give a clearance and maybe a 3 billion dollar aircraft with a belly full of nukes to an assclown who couldn't get through a freshman course without cheating, and getting caught.

Right.

If it had been one or two, they likely would have been expelled. The only reason they aren't is because they do not want to lose that many out of a single class.

Closing the bar for a "strategic pause"? Only in the Air Force.

I would have preferred PTing them till they passed out or puked their nuts up, twice a day, every day, for a month. After each session, they could go stand at parade rest in front of the portrait of Lance Sijan for a couple of hours, and think about their futures and motivations.

tk, I think you have watched one too many James Bond or Dirty Dozen movies. People I want with those skills learn and use them in the service of their country, not themselves.

TR

[incommin]

The only thing wrong is that they got caught.

Frankly, Burke was right, "The age of chivalry is gone", and our nation should drop this Knighthood pretense and realize the Mongols are a better role model.
We need guys who majored in triple double cross and garroting people in the dark, not more Alden Pyle’s. More OSS types and less OSP types.

If we we're serious about the "global war on terrorism”, we would rename the Air Force Academy to Markus Wolf Tech. And then begin recruiting from a pool of scholars without anglofied last names who happen to excel in the fields of identity fraud, charming the pants off of women, and grand larceny.

I don't want a professional army full of the individuals you state you prefer........ There is way much more to being a professional soldier than just killing skills.

Jim

[sg1987]

"The age of chivalry is gone",
Do the words Duty, HONOR, Country ring a bell?

[Razor]

Academy Superintendent Lt. Gen. John Regni restricted all 4,000 cadets to campus last weekend and closed the only bar on the site for what he called a "strategic pause" for cadets to reflect on the honor code.

I'm afraid that's not quite true; all USAFA intercollegiate athletes with 'away' games last weekend attended/played those games, to include both men's and women's basketball teams, the fencing team, men's hockey and women's gymnastics. Wouldn't want to take an 'L' through a forfeit and possibly lose money, you know. :rolleyes: Oh, by the way, all the club sport cadets (non-NCAA teams) forfeited their matches if they weren't being held on academy grounds. Another example of the two different categories of cadet.

[Monsoon65]

The only thing wrong is that they got caught.

Frankly, Burke was right, "The age of chivalry is gone", and our nation should drop this Knighthood pretense and realize the Mongols are a better role model.
We need guys who majored in triple double cross and garroting people in the dark, not more Alden Pyle’s. More OSS types and less OSP types.

If we we're serious about the "global war on terrorism”, we would rename the Air Force Academy to Markus Wolf Tech. And then begin recruiting from a pool of scholars without anglofied last names who happen to excel in the fields of identity fraud, charming the pants off of women, and grand larceny.

And since I'm in the Air Force, and have been since I was 17, let me have the chance to pile on for this statement.

General AF knowledge. Simple subject that everyone in the AF has to do, regardless of what rank they hold. Enlisted troops have to complete a PFE test when getting promoted, which deals with that subject.

These buttpuppets cheated to get ahead!! I busted my ass to get where I am today, just like my dad did (24 years in the AF) and my kid brother. None of us cheated. We all served.

I want troops with me that are hard chargers and have the "never say quit" attitude, but they better have the honor to back it up.

TR, you're right. Just kicking them out was the easy way. PTing their sorry asses until they dropped, THEN kicking them out would be much more fun. Maybe busting them down to E-1 and letting them slop hash at a chowhall would be a good idea, too.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Maybe busting them down to E-1 and letting them slop hash at a chowhall would be a good idea, too.

They are not worthy of wearing the uniform at any grade.

[Monsoon65]

They are not worthy of wearing the uniform at any grade.

You're right. How about tshirts that say, "I'm a loser and cheated my way out of the AF Academy."

I get really steamed reading stories like this, simply because it gives the AF a black eye. We take a lot of static as it is (The General took away bar privledges?), but getting caught cheating on something as simply as general AF knowledge is lame.

[CoLawman]

I see a silver lining in this story. One of these individuals will one day run for political office as a Democrat! Hope Google is still up and running in 20 or 30 years!

To be fair some of these cheaters are or will be something other than Democrats............on second thought..............NAHHHHHH!

[spectre919]

PTing their sorry asses until they dropped, THEN kicking them out would be much more fun. Maybe busting them down to E-1 and letting them slop hash at a chowhall would be a good idea, too.

Ah, Ahh! You know we cannot PT folks for discipline. The "brown shoe" AF is long gone and we will live with TQF...and like it!

Oh! It's not a "chow hall" it's a dining facility. ;)

A few less cheating "ring knockers"....we keep it up at this rate and things may turn around.

[Defender968]

While I totally agree with Col Moroney, unfortunately this behavior happens all too often in the AF, not just the academy. While in Pilot training I can't tell you how many times I heard the saying "If you're not cheating, you're not trying" and I'm not just talking about the students. I saw all my buddies getting 98's on our academic tests, couldn't figure out how they all seemed to know everything. I had a paltry 88 average, a full 8 points below nearly everyone else, one day I asked, how the hell do you guys know all this stuff, I study constantly and still can't seem to retain enough to constantly get 98’s, my buddy looked at me and said, what you're not cheating? He was actually surprised. I've apprehended way more officers than you can imagine in the last 6 months alone for having just that mindset. It's really sad and I'm ashamed as an officer every time an Lt or Capt thinks he doesn't have to obey orders, or shows his ass and my troops have to apprehend him. Guess you can see where it begins. Maybe if they actually start enforcing the honor code early on in the AF the culture would change, I know I'd love to see it.

If they were serious about the honor code, and about actually building good officers they'd either kick those pukes straight out, or pt them until they quit. But I guess that wouldn't be the kinder gentler corporate AF.

[sg1987]

It seems as if there are those that are more concerned with deleting traditions such as the Naval Academy formally saying grace before meals than addressing honor violations.
Who needs worthless outdated concepts such as prayer, morality, honor, sacrifice and the like?:mad:

[sfbaby1982]

With all due respect to everyone in the "I need oxygen, I'm so high up in rank," catagory I got a pretty good chuckle out of the whole comment made by TK27. Granted that it disgusts me what they did and torture...i mean PT is the proper answer, but I think that everyone reacted to that kind of "knee jerkish," shall we say. Just IMO.

V/R
R

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

With all due respect to everyone in the "I need oxygen, I'm so high up in rank," catagory IR

Whom do you include in this category?

[sg1987]

Is that the sound of incoming I hear?

[sfbaby1982]

Sir,

I used that statement in reference to the mentality that the COC at high levels cannot relate to the mentality, certainly the humor of others who would choose to make a joke out of an obvious right/wrong situation. I'm one of the ones who lives and breathes the whole army values. But I do now understand how a totally rigid right and wrong stance on everything can hurt a team. I hate backpedaling and am generally inclined to stand my ground but I hope that everyone understands that my statement was made lightly. If that incites any feelings other than that I do apologize.

V/R
R

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Sir,

I used that statement in reference to the mentality that the COC at high levels cannot relate to the mentality, certainly the humor of others who would choose to make a joke out of an obvious right/wrong situation. I'm one of the ones who lives and breathes the whole army values. But I do now understand,**************, how a totally rigid right and wrong stance on everything can seriously hurt a team. I hate backpedaling and am generally inclined to stand my ground but I hope that everyone understands that my statement was made lightly. If that incites any feelings other than that I do apologize.

V/R
R

Your enthusiasm needs to be tempered with a little more experience. While many have seen what you allude to and understand those frustrations no one in SF has been made by virtue of a cookie cutter. We are not about producing corn flakes. Rank in SF, and certainly in my case, has nothing to do with anything other than an increase in levels of responsibility and most of those "who fall within your category of needing O2" of my ilk were soldiers that just happened to be officers. While I am obviously of the old school and probably less relevant to many in today's terms and view point, there is absolutely nothing humorous about violations of integrity when it comes to anyone and especially those that would be officers-both commissioned and non-commissioned and none more so than in SF. Your comments concerning the rigidity *************and *** inability to work within the grey areas between right and wrong come with maturity, experience, good leadership, training, and good personal/professional working relationships with those on the team. I cannot speak for him anymore than I can evaluate your current situation. You are certainly welcome to express your point of view and opinion, but when you start to paint with a broad brush those with whom you have neither served or know you are bound to get a little backsplash on your kit. Now pardon me while I go hook up to my O2 tank-not because of my rank but because of my age.

[sfbaby1982]

Haha, very understandable Sir. We're on the same page with integrity.

V/R

Ricky

[The Reaper]

I had the TV on last night for background noise, and they had a program on where they followed a bunch of kids going through the BUDS Course.

The officers were catching their own share of shit about being in charge and leadership failures.

One of the really good points from the whole show was in one of the later phases, when they were supposed to be setting a 14 minute delayed non-electric underwater charge and it did not go off until well after 18 minutes.

The officer got smoked for it as he was in charge, but the reason was that the kids who put the firing system together failed to do a test burn on the time fuse. The Master Chief pulled the enlisted students off that team aside for a little professional counseling. I suspect that he sanitized his language because of the cameras, but basically his message was very clear.

He started off by telling them that it was their fault, not the Os, and that the consequences went well beyond the mission failure. He said that he really hated micro-managing officers, and that the team had just helped start one down that path. According to him, ohe reason that many officers micro-manage is that their people have let him down in the past. The test burn should have been done by a team member and was not. Next time, the O may require that it be done with his participation because the men let him down. A good team member should just be able to tell the boss that the firing system is GTG, and the good CO should know that it is and he doesn't have to worry about it. For the enlisted to do any less was to disrespect their MOS, the Teams, the mission, and the officer.

I think that was one of the best, most professional NCODP/counseling sessions I have ever witnessed. And he made them pay of course.:D

A good ODA should take a good officer, educate him, make him better, give him confidence in SF NCOs, and leave him looking really good.

I don't want an cheating officer on a team. Our NCOs deserve better.

Trust, like loyalty, is a two-way street. Think about it.

TR

[sfbaby1982]

TR what you just said is so poignant right now. I'm doing some training with our cousins here in the UK with guys from all of the Grps. and it’s a wonder why officers even trust ODA's at all. PCI's are a regular negative AAR comment after our exercises here and the problem is that young NCOs (I am a young NCO) are neglectful. Especially the other 18x's here and allot of the problem is they aren't willing to take accountability for their mistakes. They feel like they are too good for that. This is going outside of the scope of this thread but I appreciate that anecdote. I haven't looked but I'm going to try and find a thread for "professionalism and ethics" to express my frustration over that very issue. I'd love to read some input on that.

Ricky

[Razor]

While not taking responsibility for their screwups is pretty bad, it sounds like the real problem is that the guys have started to believe their own press. "Hell, I'm SF...I know what I'm doing, so I don't need to do a PCI/read the manual/practice giving that class/learn more about my MOS on my free time/etc". The secret, high-speed training that makes SF guys great is mastery of the basics. Its boring, its repetitive, its not sexy, it takes a lot of work, but without it, you'll never get to the next level because you're still stuck on the first one.

Getting back to the topic at hand, the "basics" for aspiring officers are integrity and honor. You can teach them whatever skills they need later, but the bedrock of integrity and honor needs to be in place before you can trust them with the lives of others. Without those basic characteristics, you don't have an officer, you have an individual that's wearing rank.

[sfbaby1982]

Amen brother.

[hoot72]

Cheating is cheating. There is no excuse and if you get caught, you better be prepared to accept the responsibilities that go with it.

If you get away with it, know that one day, maybe not anytime soon, it will either come back to haunt you or you will eventually get caught doing it again.

I am of course referring to cheating in exams.