Name that Weapon...

[Warrior-Mentor]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

[Roguish Lawyer]

I see that Yon is now claiming to be a former SF soldier . . . :munchin

[CoLawman]

I see that Yon is now claiming to be a former SF soldier . . . :munchin

Michael Yon's Special Forces time is spelled out in his book "Danger Close."

Interesting read. He killed a man in a bar fight which resulted in his going to trial. Probably one of the reasons a popular bumper sticker in Fayetteville is:

You picked the wrong town to pick a bar fight in.

[Pete]

No clue but appears to have rifle scope style optics, shoulder fired and from the look of the shoulder mount area and end - not much backblast.

Then again Eastern style employment never was much on clearing the backblast area. Ouch.

Pete

The first thing that hit my mind when I looked at the picture was the "Poor GI Joe held prisoner".

As a side note - I see the media has a new fancy name for weapons that fire/employ a shaped charge. "A fist size chunk of molten copper". Got to have a fancy 3 letter name for everything these days.

[Snaquebite]

Saw this earlier and have no idea. I put it in Photoshop and enlarged it a bit.
Click to enlarge
7194

Wouldn't be surprised if it's something being made by Hezbollah. They are manufacuting a lot of things these days.

[Gypsy]

I see that Yon is now claiming to be a former SF soldier . . . :munchin

IIRC he was in 10th Group.

[The Reaper]

Saw this earlier and have no idea. I put it in Photoshop and enlarged it a bit.
Click to enlarge
7194

Wouldn't be surprised if it's something being made by Hezbollah. They are manufacuting a lot of things these days.

Looks like a mock-up or semi-homemade weapon to me. That is, as noted, a commerical rifle scope, not a military type which would have a dedicated reticle appropriate to the round, adding to my suspicion that it is modded or homemade.

Definitely not the way you normally fire an EFP, as the diameter is very small for an EFP and you could not contain the blast that way.

As a side note - I see the media has a new fancy name for weapons that fire/employ a shaped charge. "A fist size chunk of molten copper". Got to have a fancy 3 letter name for everything these days.

Not going into too many details here, but I worked on EFPs with Ernie T. and an EFP is not a shaped charge. A shaped charge is launched and detonates at a specific standoff distance from the target, melts the conical liner, and turns it into a very narrow jet of molten plasma. This is an process known as the Munroe effect.

When fired, the EFP inverts the bowl shaped liner and it stays in one solid piece, striking with more mass than the shaped charge, and having much less criticality in standoff distance. Very hard to defeat in sufficient sizes for the desired target thickness.

HTH.

TR

[x SF med]

IIRC he was in 10th Group.

He was in 10th SFG(A)

[Pete]

.....Not going into too many details here, but I worked on EFPs and an EFP is not a shaped charge. A shaped charge is launched and detonates at a specific standoff distance from the target, melts the conical liner, and turns it into a very narrow jet of molten plasma....



Platter Charge?

Anyway - So who fired the 40 lb shaped charge upside down at night? Best results are on a real dark night, no moon and a low rise of ground between you and the charge. On the 4th sometimes you have to improvise.:D

Pete


Oouuuu, aaaahhhh.

[kachingchingpow]

I think they must've gripped the blue prints for my tater gun.

I can think of a few ways that you might be able to launch explosives with a tater gun and a can of ether.

[Pete]

All kidding aside;

You have the shaped charge type weapons that are launched at the target and detonate at the right distance by way of a fuzed nose standoff like the law and RPG family of weapons. Easy to aim and have a good range but can be defeated by standoff protection like grills and chain link fence.

Then you have the platter style charges that explode at the launch site sending the metal chunk through anything. These are limited to range and aiming. Factory built ones would be more consistant on firing/aiming but would still not be a bullseye type but more a "Hit the truck" thing.

A high tech combination of the two, a device that is fired like an RPG but has some type of sensor that detonates it before/or at hitting stand off protection and then fires the metal would be very effective. But you now run into size. How large a platter can be utilized?

Small enough to be moved around and the blast would only shake up the crew and punch a hole where it hit. In a cargo truck if it didn't hit the engine, running gear or driver the truck might keep on going, not even a mobility kill. If the blast was big enough to take out the truck why mess with the platter effect.

As with anything a weapon is designed for a specialized problem and taking it outside that narrow window makes it less efective. Better to switch to a different weapon.

Man, I'd love to get a look at one of those new critters. Maybe a little range time?

Pete

[The Reaper]

A platter charge does not have the armor penetration that an EFP does.

I would say that there is no way to make one that would be safe to launch in a shoulder-fired configuration that would penetrate anything of significance.

The ones we used were at least 100mm in diameter, and you could make them up to 250mm or more in diameter.

I believe that I saw them being shown on Modern Weapons the other night, to include underwater use.

TR

[Pete]

A platter charge does not have the armor penetration that an EFP does....TR


OK Guys;

We can split hairs here all day. I looked up some pictures of the EFP found in Irag. Round concave copper plate backed by explosives.

ST31-180 dated January 1965, pg III-20 "Platters do not have to be round or concave although a round concave platter is undoubtedly best."

EFP - Sexy name for a dressed up old timer. Better materials but the same concept.

Pete

[The Reaper]

Suit yourself.

When I ran Demo Committee, we taught them as separate charges.

Either way, no worries.

TR

[incommin]

OK Guys;

We can split hairs here all day. I looked up some pictures of the EFP found in Irag. Round concave copper plate backed by explosives.

ST31-180 dated January 1965, pg III-20 "Platters do not have to be round or concave although a round concave platter is undoubtedly best."

EFP - Sexy name for a dressed up old timer. Better materials but the same concept.

Pete


Vintage!

Jim

[incommin]

It says here:


COPPER CONE - Using the jet-forming copper cone, the charge produces a jet which may be used to pierce holes, typically through 75mm (3 in) of mild steel or greater thicknesses of concrete or brickwork. It may be used for causing the detonation or deflagration of steel-cased ammunition without any risk of inadvertent disturbance of the target before firing. The usual explosive load is between 20 and 50g.

COPPER EXPLOSIVELY-FORMED PROJECTILE - A wide angled copper cone, essentially a slightly domed disc, generates an explosively-formed projectile (EFP) which may be used to penetrate robust targets at much greater ranges than the jet-forming cone. This enables the VULCAN to be used as a de-armer and disruptor device. It punctures 10mm thick steel at a range of at least 1,500mm.

ALUMINIUM PROJECTILE The aluminium projectile is able to deliver a powerful blow to shell fuses and bomb pistols thus removing them or jamming their mechanisms. It thus provides a low-priced, disposable, alternative to de-armers using heavy steel barrels.

MAGNESIUM INCENDIARY CONE - The jet formed by this cone is less penetrating than that formed by the copper cone but it is a less powerful initiator of detonation. It is used to penetrate even thick-walled shells or bombs and ignite the explosive or pyrotechnic filling. In this application it is much less likely to cause inadvertent high order detonation than other, more conventional, charges. It thus provides a reliable means of bringing about a “low order” deflagration event. The usual explosive load for this purpose is between 30 and 40g.

WATER PROJECTILE A conical cavity is formed in the explosive, water is poured into the cavity, and a plastic cone is inserted to retain the water. The charge thus becomes a shaped charge, able to penetrate steel-cased munitions with thicknesses of up to 10mm, and to disperse their contents with minimal risk of detonation. Charges are quickly assembled and robust.

High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) Armor Piercing Shaped Charge
Armor piercing shells comprise a special type of anti-tank ammunition which is provided with a hollow charge warhead. In principle, a hollow charge comprises an outer casing, a metal cone and an explosive. When the explosive detonates, the metal cone is squeezed together and a metal jet is formed which, with great force, penetrates even very thick and hard armor. Due to its good effect in armored targets, the hollow charges have long constituted a serious threat to armored vehicles.

The High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) rounds take a cone-shaped shaped charge warhead to targets. This shaped charge warhead, with its inherent blast and fragmentation capability, also provides additional weapon defeat capability. A copper shaped charge liner and wave shaper are contained within the warhead.

A sophisticated heavy two-stage shaped-charge warhead is capable of piercing armor of equivalent to 900mm thickness. A triple-shaped charge warhead offers 50mm more penetration. The RPG-7 grenade, with a shaped-charge warhead, has very good armor penetration (330 mm), capable of defeating most types of armored vehicles. Even a small 440 gram shaped-charge explosive is extremely destructive, and can penetrates more than 14 inches (35.6 cm) of armor. The M77 submunition's antimateriel capability is provided through a shaped charge with a built-in standoff, which can penetrate up to four inches of armor. The smaller artillery-delivered M46 submissions have a shaped charge warhead that penetrates 2.75 inches of homogeneous armor.

Explosively Formed Projectile (EFP)
Wide angle cones and other liner shapes such as plates or dishes do not jet, but give instead an explosively formed projectile or EFP. The projectile forms by dynamic plastic flow and has a velocity of 1-3 kms-l . Target penetration is much less than that of a jet, but the hole diameter is larger with more armour backspall.

The concept of using explosive energy to deform a metal plate into a coherent penetrator while simultaneously accelerating it to extremely high velocities offers a unique method of employing a kinetic energy penetrator without the use of a large gun. A typical explosively formed projectile (EFP) is comprised of a metallic liner, a case, an explosive section, and an initiation train. Very often there is also a retaining ring to position and hold the liner-explosive subassembly in place. EFP warheads are normally designed to produce a single massive, high velocity penetrator. After detonation, the explosive products create enormous pressures that accelerate the liner while simultaneously reshaping it into a rod or some other desired shape. The EFP then hits the target at a high speed, delivering a significantly high mechanical power.


Jim

[jwt5]

I've seen these before. There are a lot of variants of this same design that we found my last deployment over there. Most were 'designed' to fire modified rockets. Not RPGs, but more like 40mm rocket type ammunition.
We actually found a few that had blown up and taken out their would be shooter.
OpSec in mind, in our AO it seemed they weren't using them on ground targets.

We also would run across a few that seemed to be designed with the 'EFP' shoulder fire mindset, of course with not so good effects on the shooter of said weapon.

Edit: I hope I didn't step outside my lane when posting here

[Snaquebite]

Some additional coverage...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252409,00.html

[Team Sergeant]

Saw this earlier and have no idea. I put it in Photoshop and enlarged it a bit.
Click to enlarge
7194

Wouldn't be surprised if it's something being made by Hezbollah. They are manufacuting a lot of things these days.

Has any SF’er got a definitive answer???