View Full Version : Civilian Skydiving Help
The Daughter has been saving for skydiving lessons since she was 15. She's now 18, and this summer looks to be the time. Can anyone offer advice on how to evaluate training programs? I'm concerned that I don't even know what I don't know.
Training options appear to follow two divergent paths: 1) tandem progressing to solo 2) assisted solo/accelerated freefall from the outset.
What worries me is the "we'll beat any price" crapola I'm seeing on the websites. That's the approach that destroyed SCUBA training, IMO.
She's already done a tandem jump (and was hooked). Assume for the sake of discussion that she's bright, mature, and experienced in evaluating personal risk and setting boundaries.
TIA for any help.
Team Sergeant
02-09-2007, 08:31
"Accelerated Free Fall Program (AFF) requires approximately 5 hours of ground instruction before you are ready for your first skydive. You wear your own harness and parachute. After climbing to 12,500 feet, you depart the aircraft with 2 AFF Instructors to assist you in freefall where you will fall for approximately 60 seconds."
http://www.jumpraeford.com/coaching.htm#2
This is the best way to go IMO. Probably costs the most but it's the safest.;)
http://www.jumpraeford.com/coaching.htm#2
This is the best way to go IMO. Probably costs the most but it's the safest.;)
Thanks, safest is good. The costs aren't that different if the endpoint is a solo ticket. If you drop out after a couple of jumps it's more. This is the route she wants to go as well.
This is what worries me -- at least they got him on his belly at the end...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLCf766EX7I
Team Sergeant
02-09-2007, 08:53
Some individuals just spaz out, forget their training and pray the instructors are good.
If your daughter is in possession of a mature level head and can function in a stressful situation she'll do well.... if not she'll wind up on a youtube video.....:rolleyes:
The Reaper
02-09-2007, 08:59
I second the AFF over tandem suggestion.
A tandem is for a once in a lifetime ride, the instructor is keeping you flat and stable.
The AFF will teach more. I particularly like the ability to do a little Vertical Wind Tunnel time first.
Some of the questions I would ask is if they have ever had a fatality, how many accidents they had in the last year, and if they are current on their insurance.
This is like Laser eye surgery, you don't get a lot of second chances.
HTH.
TR
82ndtrooper
02-09-2007, 09:00
"Accelerated Free Fall Program (AFF) requires approximately 5 hours of ground instruction before you are ready for your first skydive. You wear your own harness and parachute. After climbing to 12,500 feet, you depart the aircraft with 2 AFF Instructors to assist you in freefall where you will fall for approximately 60 seconds."
http://www.jumpraeford.com/coaching.htm#2
This is the best way to go IMO. Probably costs the most but it's the safest.;)
This is your best bet. Although here we do give the option of vertical wind tunnel during the 5 hours of ground instruction. Some of the students have enjoyed the wind tunnel, and it aided them in stabilzation once out of the bird.
Depending on the the instuctors, the wind tunnel may be mandatory with an additional cost. It seems to vary from USPA facility to another.
In a nutshell TS gives the easiest way to start the AFF program to advance to the USPA "A" license. Eventually she'll be doing unassisted AFF dives.
Any particular skydiving company the QP's would recommend in NC or VA?
Thanks
kachingchingpow
02-09-2007, 09:28
I did the combo method myself back in 88. Not even sure if they do that route anylonger. I wasn't making a whole lot of dough at the time, so I did a couple AFF's just for the thrills (didn't have enough cash to continue the program). When I did get the money my cirruculum went something like:
Few hours of ground school
2 tandems, (I think it's normally 3, but I had 2 aff's at another facility, and he took that into account). Each tandem had a circle of awareness exercise and PRCP's. You drive the rig to the DZ.
2 aff's (more PRCP's demonstrate stability, and basic turns I think)
1 static line @3000'. Poised with a 4 second delay and simulatd rip cord pull. (Demonstrated that I could get out of the plane and pull in an emergency).
The next 5 were aff's.
All told I liked the approach. I'm about average size... 5'10/180. The guy who did my instruction is world renown(D-1180), and a large fella so the tandem wasn't uncomfortable (I've seen some rather small guys do tandems with bigger passengers... seemed uncomfortable to me).
If I had any advice to give it would be to get a recommendation for an instructor. Hopefully you'll get one here.
I dropped out somewhere between 350 and 400 jumps, but hope to get back into it when my kids are around your daughters age. I'd like to start jumping again a year or so prior to them, so that I can geek them on their jumps.
Can anyone share any horror stories and walked away? I had one when a group of very experienced hippies talked me into doing a horny gorilla on or about my 20th jump. I still wake up in a sweat every so often from that one.
The Reaper
02-09-2007, 09:48
....a group of very experienced hippies talked me into doing a horny gorilla on or about my 20th jump. I still wake up in a sweat every so often from that one.
I am sure that was an experience, and was something to see.
Not my cup of tea, but just out of curiosity, do gorillas bite when you do that?
TR
kachingchingpow
02-09-2007, 09:54
:o
man, that one was right over the plate.
Take note mugwump... there's some really "interesting" language around DZ's. Don't be shocked when daddy's little girl comes home bragging about doing her first 3 way, hot 4 way, or tube dive.
Some individuals just spaz out, forget their training and pray the instructors are good.
If your daughter is in possession of a mature level head and can function in a stressful situation she'll do well.... if not she'll wind up on a youtube video.....:rolleyes:
On about her 60th dive she was ambushed by an "out of air" diver (from a cattle-boat group: panicked, over-breathed her rental regulator, plenty of air) who ripped her reg out of her mouth -- she handled that well.
That's my worry about skydiving -- we'd already discussed that scenario and her training hadn't.
Anyone in the Chicago area have a personal recommendation for a trainer?
:o
man, that one was right over the plate.
Take note mugwump... there's some really "interesting" language around DZ's. Don't be shocked when daddy's little girl comes home bragging about doing her first 3 way, hot 4 way, or tube dive.
LOL
The Reaper
02-09-2007, 11:35
On about her 60th dive she was ambushed by an "out of air" diver (from a cattle-boat group: panicked, over-breathed her rental regulator, plenty of air) who ripped her reg out of her mouth -- she handled that well.
That's my worry about skydiving -- we'd already discussed that scenario and her training hadn't.
Anyone in the Chicago area have a personal recommendation for a trainer?
Keep a sharp lookout during descent, avoiding fellow jumpers.
I would further add to that to say that once I near opening altitude, I move away from the group, and during descent under canopy, stay well clear of others. No CREW taking place here, once that bad boy is open, I am just trying to ride it clean to a good landing near the target.
Primary causes of civilian injuries appear to be intoxication, poor packing, unfamiliar or modified equipment, entanglements with others, and hotdog landings with high performance canopies.
You stay clear of that, jump a decent DZ with few obstacles, use good gear, and know your emergency procedures, you should be good to go and low risk.
Murphy is always out there looking to bite you in the ass though.
TR
Warrior-Mentor
02-09-2007, 17:39
Any particular skydiving company the QP's would recommend in NC or VA?
Thanks
NC: I did my first AFF (and many civilian sky dives) out at Raeford.
Has a good rep as safe DZ...many point to the large military influence, as jumpers and many instructors (plus Golden Knights).
VA: Only been to Sky Dive Orange once here, but seemed like a good DZ...I liked what I saw from the instructors.
Sinister
02-09-2007, 17:43
Mugwump, try here:
http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/Detailed/48.shtml
It was founded by a guy named Roger Nelson. Quite a story in itself.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
02-09-2007, 19:48
My daughter in law did the AFF bit at Raeford and had no problems. She used to jump with a pink parachute and still holds it over my son that she has more jumps than he has:D
:munchin
You can't go any better than Raeford, NC for a good DZ. I began the first of my 2,653 jumps there back more years than I'd like to think about. The training was first rate even back then and watching guys like Chuck Collingwood nail dead centers one after another (downwind landings under a Para Commander was an experience) was something to see.
Keep a sharp lookout during descent, avoiding fellow jumpers.
I would further add to that to say that once I near opening altitude, I move away from the group, and during descent under canopy, stay well clear of others. No CREW taking place here, once that bad boy is open, I am just trying to ride it clean to a good landing near the target.
Primary causes of civilian injuries appear to be intoxication, poor packing, unfamiliar or modified equipment, entanglements with others, and hotdog landings with high performance canopies.
You stay clear of that, jump a decent DZ with few obstacles, use good gear, and know your emergency procedures, you should be good to go and low risk.
Murphy is always out there looking to bite you in the ass though.
TR
:eek:
Let me echo TR's comment about knowing emergency procedures! Maintaining SA when things aren't going well will save your butt. I speak from personal experience with twelve and a half reserve rides (PM me if you want to find out about the half ride). Some were equipment related (pin lock, broken suspension lines, torn canopy), but most were due to hurried packing or not having a good, stable body position at opening. Don't skimp on gear if you decide to get your own and an AOD is always a good idea.
Roger that about Murphy. He will show up when you least expect him and usually meaner than you'd like.
Mugwump, try here:
http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/Detailed/48.shtml
It was founded by a guy named Roger Nelson. Quite a story in itself.
Thanks for this. The training reviews look great, and the dropzone looks to be huge and level (big flat dz was one of those unknown unknowns until it was pointed out.)
:eek:
Let me echo TR's comment about knowing emergency procedures! Maintaining SA when things aren't going well will save your butt. I speak from personal experience with twelve and a half reserve rides (PM me if you want to find out about the half ride). Some were equipment related (pin lock, broken suspension lines, torn canopy), but most were due to hurried packing or not having a good, stable body position at opening. Don't skimp on gear if you decide to get your own and an AOD is always a good idea.
Roger that about Murphy. He will show up when you least expect him and usually meaner than you'd like.
Emergency procedures: This is my big worry. Her incomplete scuba training left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm worried about a repeat of that experience in this situation. At least with scuba I knew how to fill in the training voids.
The Skydive Chicago place Sinister recommended looks reasonably priced but doesn't advertise the fact (+), says they can't lay out a hard-and-fast schedule of training because they tailor it to your developing skill level (+), have in-air instructor-to-pupil comms (+), and stress safety and thoroughness in their training prospectus (+). I'm digging further but that place looks like my focus right now.
On about her 60th dive she was ambushed by an "out of air" diver (from a cattle-boat group: panicked, over-breathed her rental regulator, plenty of air) who ripped her reg out of her mouth -- she handled that well.
By "well" do you mean she grabbed her own reserve and put in, then pulled the mask off the tweaker and delivered a sharp palm strike to her nose? :D
By "well" do you mean she grabbed her own reserve and put in, then pulled the mask off the tweaker and delivered a sharp palm strike to her nose? :D
Should have! She put in her reserve, grabbed hold of the idiot's bc and manged to keep her from dragging both of them to the surface. It took both of us to control her ascent to about 20', where she pulled the bit off of the primary and bolted to the surface with it clenched in her teeth. It was one of those nice molded-to-your-bite ones, too. :( You ever see someone try to claw their way out of the water? Not a very efficient form of egress; I didn't think she was going to make it. Overheard her later in the week saying she ran out of air -- that was her story and she was sticking to it.
No palm strike, but I did dump a guy onto his can. A pushy photographer kicked the regulator out of my mouth later in the same trip and left an empty bit in my mouth, just like tweaker. That was our very last trip on a cattle boat (Bonaire), we stuck to shore diving the rest of the trip.