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Sire24657
02-07-2007, 15:50
I know that Ranger Joes has a conversion to the Poncho liner that adds a full length zipper to it; could that be used as a suitable liner to add to a sleeping bag?

Thanks in advance.

http://www.rangerjoes.com/poncho-liner-conversion-p-3438.html

x SF med
02-07-2007, 16:20
Ummm, just roll up in the Poncho Liner inside the sleeping bag - why zip it in? Waste of time and money IMHO. Your Poncho Liner, your choice though.

Pete
02-07-2007, 16:43
Just something else to get tangled up in while you toss and turn inside the bag.

Why not just tie a real poncho liner inside a poncho? If it gets that cold then just pull the combo over the bag . The combo is also available for "light work".

Snaquebite
02-07-2007, 16:46
Actually they don't zip into the sleeping bag. They just zip up like a sleeping bag and act as an insert. I've had a zippered P-liner for a long time. Did it myself before they started selling them that way. It does work great with a sleeping bag and as a seperate as a light weight bag. No need for the head hole IMO. Also seen them done with velcro.

One of the secrets of staying warm in a sleeping bag is to fill all the dead space.

The Reaper
02-07-2007, 16:57
Actually they don't zip into the sleeping bag. They just zip up like a sleeping bag and act as an insert. I've had a zippered P-liner for a long time. Did it myself before they started selling them that way. It does work great with a sleeping bag and as a seperate as a light weight bag. No need for the head hole IMO. Also seen them done with velcro.

Exactly, I had mine that way since 86 or so.

Great mod.

TR

incommin
02-07-2007, 18:30
Never used a poncho liner inside a sleeping bag. I have, however, wrapped my midsection with a scarf and or put a waterproof bag over the foot section of the bag. I have also used a wool army blanket, folded in thirds, and placed in the bottom of the bag to increase insulation between me and the ground or air if on a cot.

Jim

Warrior-Mentor
02-07-2007, 19:06
I just stuff my poncho liner (woobie) inside the sleeping bag.
It works well just bunched up.

Snaquebite
02-07-2007, 19:21
Eveybody's gotta have a "woobie" :)

CDRODA396
02-07-2007, 19:35
The RI's told me the woobie was rated to minus 50 and I would never need anything else! I didnt even realize the Army issued sleeping bags!:D

Warrior-Mentor
02-07-2007, 20:08
The RI's told me the woobie was rated to minus 50 and I would never need anything else! I didnt even realize the Army issued sleeping bags!:D

Maybe with a tight spoon in effect. :eek:

LibraryLady
02-07-2007, 20:18
My favorite combo is ground tarp, wool blanket and poncho liner, all folded in half together. For those colder nights I'll add a buffalo robe between tarp and blanket.

You gotta love poncho liners! Mine is 20+ years old and still does its job.

LL

Sdiver
02-07-2007, 20:19
Eveybody's gotta have a "woobie" :)

3 cheers for the "Woobie" !!!!! :lifter

The Reaper
02-07-2007, 20:33
Maybe with a tight spoon in effect. :eek:

Hey, we don't talk about that! What goes on in the field, stays in the field.;)


My favorite combo is ground tarp, wool blanket and poncho liner, all folded in half together. For those colder nights I'll add a buffalo robe between tarp and blanket.

You gotta love poncho liners! Mine is 20+ years old and still does its job.

LL

You were issued a buffalo robe? Holy cow, LL, when did you enlist?

Most of the time, a ground cloth, Therma-Rest, and sleeping bag is GTG, at times I will add a cotton or a fleece liner, and a tent, or a bivvy sack if precip is likely.

In the winter, I frequently fly with the fleece bag liner in my ruck, just in case.

TR

LibraryLady
02-07-2007, 20:55
You were issued a buffalo robe? Holy cow, LL, when did you enlist?

You should NEVER query a Lady about her age!

I thought you were an officer and a gentleman; guess a gentleman by an Act of Congress only...

:p

LL

Ambush Master
02-07-2007, 21:02
You should NEVER query a Lady about her age!

I thought you were an officer and a gentleman; guess a gentleman by an Act of Congress only...

:p

LL

:D Good on'ya Lady, THAT WAS A RIGHTEOUS BUST!!!!:D :munchin

lksteve
02-07-2007, 21:08
I thought you were an officer and a gentleman; guess a gentleman by an Act of Congress only...they quit doing that...by the time i was commissioned in '79, we were just officers...the ladies in the class seemed to appreciated the gesture...

The Old Guy
02-07-2007, 21:30
I cannot not count the nights I spent sleeping in a poncho and poncho liner. Clear nights, rain, snow, sleet or hail all in a poncho liner and poncho. If it was real cold then I'd double up the poncho liner and curl up tight. I never slept well but I did get some rest.

I love my poncho liner and poncho.

CSB
02-07-2007, 21:54
This is very much an individual preference item, it depends on the weather and how you sleep.

My $0.02 worth:

Stick the poncho liner in the bag. If it's cold, pull it up for an an additional layer of warmth and padding. If it gets too hot and you're sweating, kick it down to the bottom. Anyway, for short guys like me (5' 7 1/2") it helps fill the bottom of the bag so your feet don't get cold. And you can stuff your morning c-ration in the excess padding in the bottom so it won't freeze when sleeping in the snow. The extra padding cushions the lumpiness.

Peregrino
02-07-2007, 22:05
Beg, borrow, steal, or break down and buy a better sleeping bag! Get the right tool for the job. This isn't the Army of "chicken feather OD green mummy bags that need all the help they can get" any more. Your sleeping system should be good enough that you're not even carrying a poncho liner in cold weather. I know we've all got fond memories of poncho liners but technology has moved on - there's better stuff available to the soldier to improve quality of life. And the Army even issues some of it nowdays. For the same weight/bulk as a poncho liner, the Gore-Tex bivy sack adds much more utility to a sleeping bag. TR's comment about the fleece liner is GTG too. I would much rather have a fleece blanket/liner than a poncho liner. Fleece + bivy make a great summer bag. Bivy + bag + liner should be GTG anywhere in the temperate zone. (And I'm cold-blooded; I need/use all the insulation I can get.) My .02 - Peregrino

Pete
02-08-2007, 05:46
Just a side note since this is a "sleeping" thread.

Gortex covers, cool weather and extended periods in the field with lots of movement. Packing up quick and little time to care/air out/dry gear.

In cold weather the moisture from your body will move through the bag and condense on the inside of the Gortex cover and freeze into a thin layer of frost. Jump up, pack the bag and the moisture will melt back into the bag. It's not a lot but can lead to a damp feeling when you first get back in. This is no problem with man made materials but can build up in goose down bags.

I would not use my Gortex cover unless it was raining or it got really cold.

Besides then you could say "It didn't get that cold, I didn't have to use my Gortex cover".

Pete

Taught the secret to staying warm by a Ranger years ago.

One very cold morning after a very long cold night and our teeth are chattering in the pre dawn light my buddy, a long time ranger, looks over at me and says "You want me to teach you the Ranger way to stay warm?". Of course I say "Yes!". He stands up straight, throws his shoulders back, shakes his head a bit and says "It's not cold." He stands there for a few seconds with me looking at him and then we both started laughing. Yes, we were warm for a few moments. That technique has worked for me many a time since then.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
02-08-2007, 05:59
Maybe with a tight spoon in effect. :eek:

That falls under the classification of "don't ask, don't tell":D

sg1987
02-08-2007, 06:17
. No need for the head hole IMO.
.

Yeah but the holes work great for filling the bag with snow for the soldier who has difficulty waking up in the field!:D

Jack Moroney (RIP)
02-08-2007, 06:32
Get the right tool for the job. This isn't the Army of "chicken feather OD green mummy bags that need all the help they can get" any more. Your sleeping system should be good enough that you're not even carrying a poncho liner in cold weather. I know we've all got fond memories of poncho liners but technology has moved on - there's better stuff available to the soldier to improve quality of life. And the Army even issues some of it nowdays.

Absolutely. Like most I have fond memories of the poncho liner and got mine in the 60's before they screwed it up. Still have it, still use it around home, and took it to my couple of months I spent going thru some physical rehab at the VA to wrap around me when I went outside in my wheel chair. Told the nurses when they came to get me that I was camouflaged and that they should just let me be:D

Anyway, Peregrino is absolutely correct about the fact that the Army actually issues some of this stuff. Most of the stuff that Natick takes credit for actually came from another organization that brought what most of you wear today into the military. It was bought off the shelf from many of the out door companies many of you use, modified under contract to meet, for the most part, SOF requirements, it was SOF tested, and modified to meet troops stated requirements. Because this organization was limited to support of SOF and normally only a small segment of SOF with limited funds many items of the good stuff that was suitable for Army wide use was handed off to Natick. Of course, Natick as is normal for them, has modified a lot of it and for the most part screwed the pooch on many of the items' original design or intent. Some of the older folks here will remember the entire litinany of sleep bags, my "favorite" being Naticks's Extreme Cold Weather Bag for which the larger rucksack had to be developed because it "extremely" filled anything else. This damn thing was so clumbsy that when conventional troops used the old sleeping bag carrier and strapped it to the top of their rucks it would drive their head into the dirt if they had to hit the prone position making them unable to engage the bad guys. No, there is a lot of good stuff out there, however a word of caution is in order before you all try your next good idea and that has to do with Line of Duty investigations. You decide that you have a better piece of equipment than the Army has issued and get screwed up with some injury or disease in the process that is debilitatiing or results in a medical discharge, used to be that you bought the farm as it was caused by actions you decided to take that was considered not in the line of duty. The reasoning used to be pretty simple and that was if you knew the limitations of the equipment then you knew the limitations for the troops. Sort of common sense approach to leadership responsibilities.

CDRODA396
02-08-2007, 11:35
And you can stuff your morning c-ration in the excess padding in the bottom so it won't freeze when sleeping in the snow. The extra padding cushions the lumpiness.

CSB, you're showing your age with this slip...half of those reading this are scratching their head and thinking aloud..."c-ration...does he mean sea ration...and if so why would you stick those in a fart sack?":D

x SF med
02-08-2007, 12:00
Since we stripped C's down prior to the field - and stuffed the cans into socks (Wool, Green, OD, pr) they were handy - but those cans were still cold through the itchy green wool for about 1/2 an hour after crawling into the bag....

sg1987
02-08-2007, 12:13
Im wondering why this info wasnt passed down to the cherries. (Must have been intentional for entertainment)I ate some frozen c-rats before I learned my lesson.

x SF med
02-08-2007, 12:23
At least that way, the Ham and Mofo's were tasteless, as was the Eggs, Chopped with Ham. Neither was in my favorite meals category.

Air.177
02-08-2007, 12:37
Counter hijack -

Does anyone have any experience with Silk Sleeping bag liners like those offered by Snugpak?

Speaking of better quality new equipment, I picked up a Big Agnes Bag and pad from SHOT and I have been quite happy with it. Only downside is that the bag must be used with the pad, as there is a pocket on the bottom that the pad fits in to that has no insulation.

Good times,
blake

Huey14
02-10-2007, 01:58
I have a goretex bivvy bag and I must say it is the best piece of kit I have ever bought. Bar none. (Note civvie).

Lighter than a tent doing the same thing, you can chuck things in there you don't want to get wet and apparently you can use them to float your shit across rivers and things. I've never tried that and I have no idea how it's done but my mate reckons it works well.

MtnGoat
02-10-2007, 08:21
Maybe with a tight spoon in effect. :eek:
Hey WM what happens TDY stays TDY.:p

Woobies are great in a sleeping bag, I use mine typically as a pillow. If I get cold for some reason, -10 bag, I can pull it down as needed. I have a zippered woobies, I just use it when I don't need a sleeping bag.

Save your money and do it yourself or at a local sew shop. Going the Ranger Joes is just extra $$.

VG

Mel
02-14-2007, 00:37
Hey guys, this is an interesting thread, and timely, considering that we are about to introduce our own woobie here at Kifaru. We just thought it was about time to breathe new life into the old poncho liner. Here's a link to a thread about it on our message board for those of you that might be iterested:

http://forums.kifaru.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=100336&page=1#Post100336

Mods feel free to delete this if it's not appropriate.

Air.177: The problem with most sleeping bag liners, is that you have to crawl in thru the top, making entries and exits from your bag a pain in the butt. Silk liners are definately the best for getting the right balance of light weight/size and temperature rating. Have you checked out the Cocoon travel sheets and liners? They offer these in silk and a new ripstop silk. The big advantage with the Cocoon offerings, is that they have a velcro closure side access. This makes for easy entry and exit when in the sleeping bag. These are available in earthtone colors such as their Muddy Elephant, and I think they are coming out in Coyote Brown also. Here's their website with all the info: www.designsalt.com

Mel

The Reaper
02-14-2007, 09:19
Mel, I would like to see the woobie when you have some pics.

The zipper I put around my poncho liner was always one of my favorite mods. Will be interesting to see how the loops work to keep it closed.

How do you keep the insulation from migrating if you do not sew it down?

TR

Snaquebite
02-14-2007, 09:28
+1 especially...
How do you keep the insulation from migrating if you do not sew it down?

Mel
02-14-2007, 10:41
The insulation is sewn down around the perimeter in the seam. That's one of the advantages of the Climashield insulation, in that it does not require quilting or lamination. Here's a link to Climashield for more info:

http://www.climashield.com/

Mel

Aoresteen
03-12-2007, 19:19
I modded my first woobie in '81 while on ODA 5 with a long zipper (most of the team did the same). Stew Carnes told me about it. Used it with my 2.5 lb Northface down bag rated to +20. With a Thremarest pad I've slep snug as a bug in the Bavarian mountians at 0 to 10 degress with a snow wall to cut the wind (Thermarest, Northface bag and poncho liner inside the bag). In a snow cave never needed the woobie, just used my Northface. Used the woobie as a pillow in it's stuff sack.

I have two poncho liners with zippers. I just bought long zippers and had the cleaners sew them in. It is a permanent item in my rucksack as is my sleeping shirt. Never leave home without it.

Fiercely Loyal
07-19-2007, 04:03
The zipper I put around my poncho liner was always one of my favorite mods.

Sir, when you did this are two sides closed or do you have just one side closed so you can put your feet out the bottom if you are sleeping in your uniform?

The Reaper
07-19-2007, 08:30
Sir, when you did this are two sides closed or do you have just one side closed so you can put your feet out the bottom if you are sleeping in your uniform?

Just like a bag.

All sides closed but the bottom. Double ended zipper so that you can open it up completely, if desired.

The zipper is not a heavy one, and will break away if you pull hard.

TR

Snaquebite
07-19-2007, 08:43
Mine is sewn from one bottom corner to the other then up one side so that it can be opened up to full size.

Tom
08-24-2007, 11:54
Use a body bag in conjunction with a poncho liner. The body bag is waterproof and can come in handy as a litter as well. It does have six handles. No, I'm not trying to sound macabre, it is a useful piece of gear. And they don't cost anything. They can be requested through supply. They are roomy as well. Still have mine along with my poncho liner.

Rumblyguts
08-24-2007, 13:29
Use a body bag in conjunction with a poncho liner. The body bag is waterproof and can come in handy as a litter as well. It does have six handles. No, I'm not trying to sound macabre, it is a useful piece of gear. And they don't cost anything. They can be requested through supply. They are roomy as well. Still have mine along with my poncho liner.
The six handles come in great for turning the bodybag into a hammock as well.

The drawback is, that since the bag is waterproof, condensation/frost was an issue on the inside. But it is a nice addition to the liner if you have room for it.

82ndtrooper
08-24-2007, 22:06
I did the same as The Reaper.

Interestingly enough, I had Kims sew the zipper around the poncho liner.

Is Kims still even there off Yadkin Road ? I believe they charged me like $20 at the time. This was like 1985 so it felt like a whopper of a charge for some sewing.

We 82nd guys did not learn the art of self sewing. :munchin

sf11b_p
08-25-2007, 02:03
There used to be covers for the old mummy feather bags, like the bivy cover for the gortex bags. I got one of the old covers and had a poncho liner sewn into that. It has both the zipper and snaps. Poncho shelter over that and I was toasty dry and comfortable. In real cold it was a nice light warmth multiplier to any sleeping bag.

Squintz
01-20-2008, 00:11
Hey guys, this is an interesting thread, and timely, considering that we are about to introduce our own woobie here at Kifaru. We just thought it was about time to breathe new life into the old poncho liner. Here's a link to a thread about it on our message board for those of you that might be iterested:

http://forums.kifaru.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=100336&page=1#Post100336

Mods feel free to delete this if it's not appropriate.

Air.177: The problem with most sleeping bag liners, is that you have to crawl in thru the top, making entries and exits from your bag a pain in the butt. Silk liners are definately the best for getting the right balance of light weight/size and temperature rating. Have you checked out the Cocoon travel sheets and liners? They offer these in silk and a new ripstop silk. The big advantage with the Cocoon offerings, is that they have a velcro closure side access. This makes for easy entry and exit when in the sleeping bag. These are available in earthtone colors such as their Muddy Elephant, and I think they are coming out in Coyote Brown also. Here's their website with all the info: www.designsalt.com

Mel

I have had my paws on this excellent piece of kit. Just haven't purchased one yet as Mel and Kifaru keep separating me from my money by tempting me with other goodies.

Defion69
01-20-2008, 00:47
Ahhh the woobie. That was my sleeping bag; double the fun when wrapped in a poncho when wet times rolled around. No need for a bulky sleeping bag but then again, I made my time in warm spots....unlike my brethren in the cold areas of the world...my sleeping was done in the hot spots of central and south america. 10th group brothers I know....I have no clue what cold is!!! :confused: :cool:

I did try out sleeping in a "bear suit" (for lack of technical name for that big brown suit for the cold). Once that bear suit got wet the fun was done. :eek:

Another fave was the field jacket liner...basically a woobie in jacket form. I still travel with a woobie today as a civilian. It is part of my packing list...never leave home without it!

Ret10Echo
01-20-2008, 19:38
....unlike my brethren in the cold areas of the world...my sleeping was done in the hot spots of central and south america. 10th group brothers I know....I have no clue what cold is!!!

Cho-liner worked well to either shove down to the bottom of the sleeping bag (if you lacked camp booties) or used it to fill the gap where you couldn't quite get the bag zipped all the way up....(All that commo gear had to fit in there too:D)
But it was never too far away...

Blitzzz (RIP)
03-10-2008, 00:02
No need fo zipper ,you can tie the bottom strings together and slide the thing in the bag. just make sure it covers your feet. Also in realy cold -20 weather at night I learned to sleep with my Boots one puched into the other formig a "U" shape. Sleep with your head in the "U" between the boots and in the morning put the nice and warm boots on.:). Blitz also in same weather put your foot of the bag in a waterproof bag feet stay toasty. Blitz

Diablo Blanco
07-01-2008, 04:36
Good ideas Blitz, I've heard the WW bag trick but never tried it

For the field, I've had zippered liners for years now. I love 'em! As part of conditioning I try not to sleep with any components from the sleep system. I find it irritating. I've seen soldiers sleeping with all three pieces in Iraq during the summer! Every deployment I've been on I pack a mexican blanket and a sheet into my sustainment bag for the extended stays. It's nice for the cot and provides just enough warmth. I hate the 3 piece sleep system! It's noisy, bulky and makes people soft. I'll make a bed out of anything.

On a more recent note, I started using an XL MicroNet Fleece towel as a blanket for warmer conditions. It's light, not too hot, keeps the bugs off and packs to the size of a t-shirt. Additionally it dries out in a snap and has additional functions as well: towel, shade, lens cleaner...

The Reaper
07-01-2008, 10:24
I have used the WP bag trick before and usually, it traps a good amount of moisture in the bottom of the bag.

The boot pillow trick is a good one, thanks!

TR

Diablo Blanco
07-02-2008, 01:26
I have used the WP bag trick before and usually, it traps a good amount of moisture in the bottom of the bag.

The boot pillow trick is a good one, thanks!

TR

Side Note: Would you say that the amount of moisture could contribute to a drinking water supply if collected with a sponge?

Pete
07-02-2008, 06:18
Side Note: Would you say that the amount of moisture could contribute to a drinking water supply if collected with a sponge?

No - The bag traps the moisture like an Ice Tea glass. It condenses and then is rugged into your sleeping bag. Same thing with a GorTex cover. Over time with quick packing your sleeping bag will get damp.

In nasty weather you can put your wet feet with the boots on inside a WP bag and then stick them inside your sleeping bag. Keeps the sleeping bag clean and dry but the medics will slape you all over your head for the abuse you are doing to your feet.

Sleep without the covers when you can to allow the moisture to come out of your sleeping bag.

In really cold weather look between the Gortex cover and your bag when you wake up. You'll see a layer of frost inside the Gortex cover.