What is it to "serve"?

[thebaffler]

I read an article in today's Wall Street Journal about an enterprising young documentarian that turned his back on his former life as a Hollywood agent and headed over to Iraq in order to get the "real story" from soldiers and marines in country. Later in the day I recalled the story and did a quick Google search of the guy's name - Pat Dollard (http://patdollard.com). I skimmed the summary of his experiences and thoughts until I came upon a small phrase describing the Mr. Dollard's film that somehow rubbed me the wrong way: "as told by the Marines he served with". What follows is my initial email to the site, admittedly I was hot under the collar (directed to Mr. Dollard):

From your “about page”: “Pat Dollard as told by the Marines he served with.”

In what capacity did you “serve”, Pat? As an 11B? 21B? 18A? Or did you roll into country, cruise around a little bit, get some footage, and head back stateside to wrap it all up into a neat little package for Maxim Magazine and your vanity documentary? To “serve” is to place oneself in a position subservient to a greater thing. In my case and in the respective cases of my fellow soldiers, we’re serving the United States. You serve yourself. This may seem like a nuance or a simple matter of verbiage but to us it is how we define ourselves. I welcome your thoughts on this matter.

A few hours later the "webmaster" responded:

Greetings 1LT,

First off, it wasn’t Pat who used those words. It was I, Chad, his webmaster and firm supporter. And this response is entirely of my own accord.

Pat actually suggested to use the words “patrolled with and filmed”, but I told him to use “served’. Because thats exactly what he did. I don’t need to sign a contract with uncle sam in order to serve my country. No American does.

The guys who took down the terrorists on Flight 94 over Pennsylvania served their country, and they didn’t need to be in the military.

Here’s Pat, gettin blown up by IED’s, while volunteering to travel down the worst parts of Iraq for 7 months just so he can come back and paint you in a good light, unlike the MSM… and all you can do is badmouth him???

I ain’t a soldier. My brothers are. My father and grandfather were. I have plenty of respect for a soldier, and I would have been one if I was able.

But after reading this feedback, I would say that you are the self-serving one, so high up in your tower.

-Chad


SO - I am wondering if I am in the right or the wrong here. Does chronicling constitute service? Should I have rephrased? Am I correct in requesting a simple change in terminology? Is it even important to make this distinction? I'd welcome thoughts on this matter.

:confused:

[The Reaper]

I think Chad is full of himself, and full of shit. Tell him to drop by here if he wants to talk about service. If he wants to see some in person, let him go to DC and visit Walter Reed to see the cost of service. Maybe he can visit Arlington in the afternoon and see the real price to be paid. He seems to be pretty casual with the word "service".

Flight 93 passengers served? Well, they did something significant for their country, and one another, but what choice did they have? Doing something brave while you are under a threat may be serving, but the passengers, IMHO, could never, regardless of the outcome, say that they served. Service is more than doing the right thing, when you have to.

Almost every wannabe I know says the same thing, "well, I would have gone, but I wasn't able". Well, ole' Chad might be helping to pay for the war, but he isn't doing much more about it. As Jefferson said, "a hen has an interest in a ham and egg breakfast, but the pig has an investment." Having military relatives rings akin to the racist having black friends. It is a defensive statement, and implies nothing about the individual.

"Paint you in a good light"? I thought Pat was there to cover a story accurately? Did he make up stuff, or render a false report? Who is Pat, Ernie freaking Pyle? He could have given up the money and enlisted to be a military correspondent, if he really wanted to serve. And I take nothing away from his documentary, which may be great. But IMHO, he never served.

Would a documentarian who traveled with an NFL team be a team member player at the end of the season? Take a ride with a NASCAR team and be a real team member? I think the true value of service is in the risk, and in your contribution to the cause. Pat Tillman served too. For real. So did Chad Buehring, and Dan Petithory, and Stan Harriman, and John Chapman, and about 3,000 other brothers.

It is easy to take the money to go over and shoot a little video, and take a small risk for a few months. Big freaking deal. Once in a lifetime risk, for God and Country maybe, and for potential personal profit. Would he have gone for $1501 per month, to obey the orders of the men appointed over him, to kill and possibly be killed? Sounds like a helluva good guy. Served his country? I don't think so. And Chad should keep his honorifics for those who have earned them, if he also understands Duty, Honor, or Country.

What Pat did is not serving, it is doing his civilian job, whether he did it better, or braver, or longer. As you noted, service implies doing subornation and something for a greater cause or for someone else. It also means not having a lot of choice in the matter. He is not doing Jack for this country, he is there of his own free will to make money. He may have made more had he stayed home and done his Hollywood thing. Was he responsible for the lives of others? Did he have to follow orders which might have cost him his life, or stay after he wanted to come home? That is the difference between serving, and working. The day he wanted to come home, he could leave. And never have to worry about going back. Clearly, Chad does not understand the meaning of the word "service" and if Pat did, he would not let Chad use that language either.

Does he understand the meaning of swearing an oath to support and defend, follow orders, etc? Clearly not. At the end of his response, Chad sounds to me a lot like Arkin does. Bitter at those better men who jock up and step into the ring. Calling a media trip "serving" cheapens the word service and steals the sacrifice of better men who have paid the real price of service.

Let him sit in his nice little cozy life here in the USA, knowing that better men than he DO still understand the meaning of service, and serve that he might live free at home, safe and sound, seeing his loved ones every night, with little real danger to face, and to talk smack on the internet to a real soldier serving his country. What has he done for his country today? More directly, what has he done for someone serving his country today?

Yeah, that is really service. Thanks for your service, Pat. You too, Chad. Though thanks for a job well done might be more appropriate.:rolleyes:

TR

[CoLawman]

Well Lt. It looks like they posted your comments on the FRONT PAGE:

http://www.patdollard.com/

There is a link to a video on You Tube called Mud and Guns. Chad stars in the amateur video.

Let me just say that Chad is very very scary! I would like to see MMPI results on him. Let me see if you can figure out what stereotype he would fit into:

Cowboy hat, BIG porkchop sideburns, 4X4 Pickup, six gun on each hip, a pistol grip shotgun..........

[JMI]

Thank you for your service, Lt.

[bluebb]

Hey I used to have one of those. Of course it was just for opening doors:)

Blue

[CoLawman]

Hey I used to have one of those. Of course it was just for opening doors:)

Blue

In the "real" old days they were called "auto burglars". Not sure why, maybe some "older than me" will know the reason.

Edited: Found the answer to my question on Google: Imagine that!

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/sawyer.html

Most sawn-offs have been created by taking a conventional double-barreled gun and chopping the barrels and usually most of the stock too. There have been a few purpose designed guns. In the 1920s Ithaca produced the Auto & Burglar gun with 10" barrels, 16"loa and a weight of around 4.5lb. Grip resembled that of a revolver but on the early models had a comb or spur like projection designed to spread recoil forces into the hand. Some models had barrels of 12.5". Similar was Holland's Auto-Burglar gun and Defiance's "Anti-Bandit". All of these were 20 gauge in either 2 3/4 or 3" chambering. A French company makes a 12 bore OU pistol, the GC54. This is mainly used with riot rounds such as CS cloud and rubber shot.

[x SF med]

Ummm, 1LT Castle, if my foggy old brain is still working right, a 1LT wears a silver bar, correct? An Infantry 1LT, or even 2LT is a paper pusher? Odd, because in the old days they were field leaders, Platoon Leaders, responsible for the lives of 53 men in garrison and combat - part of the job requires paperwork - but that paperwork gets bread, bullets and pay to the 52 men he serves as a leader. (Damn, never thought I'd be defending an officer's position - kidding, sir, kidding)
Some of the rebuttal comments must have been from this guy's family members, and they don't understand that the Marines he is "patrolling and filming with" will have to pull his ass out of the fire if the defecation hits the oscillating air movement device. He is a documentarian, not a fighter, a possible liability to the platoon into which he is embedded, he has no role in keeping that same platoon alive, where they have a responsibility to keep him alive.
I applaud the fact he is trying to show the Marines and Soldiers in a light that the MSM refuses to shine, but he is not serving.

Thank you for your Service LT, it is appreciated.

[thebaffler]

I was a bit ticked when I initially headed this way for some neutral(-ish) perspectives and wanted to at least confirm with those I respect that I was justified in pointing out the distinction in terms. I hate that there's a hint of self-congratulation on my part (i.e. "been there, done that") and almost wish that I had presented myself as profession-neutral in my remarks to the webmaster and Pat.

On the flipside, however, who are these people?! From what I can tell about Pat Dollard's chronicling of events, he's cast himself in the lead role and is framing life over there as a hyper-reality of big guns and Hollywood stunts. If he truly sought to provide an accurate account of company-level life in a combat zone, why not step back behind the camera and let things unfold? Why include paragraphs on your website of self-aware nonsense like, "I co-owned a prosperous talent management firm, Relativity Management, lived in a four-story mansion, and somehow success*fully stumbled (often drunk and stoned) through the whorehouse called Hollywood." Why sell t-shirts on your website that say "Jihadi Killer" (incidentally, isn't it obvious to Pat that these shirts could be taken in two ways?)?

Additionally, I found another reference to Pat's "service" in the section exhorting us to buy t-shirts. Reproduced verbatim here:

"Help get out the message to support the war in Iraq and the troops there. Help the Marines who served have their story told. And help the families of the Marines I served with who were killed. I gave it all up, my life and my income, to serve my country in the War in Terror, with the one weapon a 42 year old civilian like me could use: a camera. " (italics mine)

I would respectfully mention that there is a "comments" area available on Pat's site for interested parties to provide their opinions. Thanks for all of your perspectives and kind words.

[Max_Tab]

I've heard of him, and for the most part like what he does and why he does it. I've seen a couple interviews with him and read a couple articles this being one of them
http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=7341 granted it's Maxim but still a decent article.

I don't think he think's he "served" but he is deffinately a supporter of the military. Plus how can you not like a guy who say's this.

When I bought a new Hummer H2 back in 2002, I ordered a custom license plate that read U.S. WINS. I got it because I believed in the message. I wanted people to have a reaction to the plate, usually negative, and then examine their thinking. Would it be so bad to win this war? Plus, I knew it would fucking piss everyone in the city off because it was Los Angeles.


As to this Chad guy, he sounds like a tool.

[NousDefionsDoc]

I didn't see this one. There are two things to keep in mind:
1. When you go over as other - you can come home anytime you want. You can simply take your ball and go home. You can stay in the wire because you simply don't feel like going out. Those serving cannot.

2. Nobody expects shit from you or depends on you for anything when go over as other. If you don't do anything, nothing will happen, nobody will die.

When you serve, your Brothers are depending on you. If you don't cover your sector, somebody will die.

Mr. Asshat didn't serve.

[echoes]

Sir,

Normally don't comment on Your posts... but You hit the nail on the head, again!

Holly

[82ndtrooper]

Chad is one of those "look at me I'm pretty" types. His websight is filled with pictures of himself hunting, riding, hunting, cleaning dear, grinding meat, hunting, etc, etc, etc, and some rediculous video of him with an AR15 with some kinda stupid music as if he's a hero. In his own mind perhaps. But I remember running across it somewhere.

[x-factor]

LT - When I first read your post, I understood why you might be annoyed but I was inclined to write it off the guy's use of "served" as a good-intentioned error in etiquette and not a sin. But after reading the webmaster's response, I'm less willing to stick up for the guy. At the very least, he could have made his point about there being different kinds of "service" in a more respectful tone. As it is, I agree, he comes off as a poseur.

Did you notice the line about his brothers and father? Not to play amateur shrink, but I think the guy's defensive reaction might be based on a sense of inadequacy compared to the rest of his family. (Maybe he's disabled or something?)

I deploy as a civillian intel officer and I'm trying to think of what term I usually use to describe my time in the field. I want to say that I usually say "deployed," "worked with," "went out with," or something like that...but to be honest I probably have said "served with" at some point. In retrospect, I hope I haven't offended anyone.

[beauty123]

Thank you all for this valuable thread!

[Guy]

When you serve, your Brothers are depending on you. If you don't cover your sector, somebody will die.

Mr. Asshat didn't serve.thebaffler:

Tell him this...

"Those of us that serve; are willing to lay it ALL on the line!" Especially for each other...

There are NO time-outs, I'm tired, I can't and/or won't do it, I give up, I quit, etc.

You'll see some Independent Contractors saying they served...that's BS!

Anyways, stay safe and thank you for your service!

[The Reaper]

Thank you all for this valuable thread!


__________
Government Software and Service Providers (http://www.top-10-business.com/top/2883-government-software-and-service-providers.html)

You need to pay attention to the instructions you were sent in your registration message.

Particularly the parts about filling in your profile, introducing yourself in the proper place, reading all of the stickies and "Read This" threads, and especially the part about no commercial solicitations or links in your posts. Please pimp your wares somewhere other than our website.

TR

[Snaquebite]

Well I guess he's still "serving".
From his latest blog 29 July.....
Our specific mission: find IEDs, which mostly happened by getting blown up by them.

[longjon]

Funny that he claims he is "serving" the only way a 42 year old guy can. It seems to me that the maximum enlistment age went up to 42.

Not that I want that tool on my flank.

[beauty123]

Thanks!That's Great!


__________
RF Detectors (http://www.top-10-business.com/top/2142-rf-detectors.html)

[The Reaper]

You can't say you weren't warned.

Next time, follow instructions.

TR