Clinton Promises to End War if Elected

[The Reaper]

It seems to me that the war is easy to end, if winning is not a requirement.

We just pack our bags, surrender, and come home. Kind of like we did in Vietnam. Voila. Peace with honor. Then they come to visit war upon us here, and where do we go?

Wonder why the MSM is not picking up on this?

TR


Clinton Promises to End War if Elected

Feb 2, 4:29 PM (ET)

By NEDRA PICKLER

WASHINGTON (AP) - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday she would not have attacked Iraq if she were president in 2002 and would end the war if elected, as she tried to blunt rivals like John Edwards who are stoking anti-war passions in the Democratic Party.

Clinton, raising her voice at one point to be heard above anti-war hecklers, suggested that calls from Edwards and others to cut off funding for President Bush's troop increase are unlikely to win approval in a narrowly divided Senate.

"Believe me, I understand the frustration and the outrage," Clinton said in a speech to the Democratic National Committee meeting that brought the party's nine White House hopefuls together for the first time. "You have to have 60 votes to cap troops, to limit funding to do anything. If we in Congress don't end this war before January 2009, as president, I will."

The New York senator's comments were her strongest against the war and signal an effort to confront one of the biggest threats to her front-runner status. As the conflict nears the four-year mark, she has been on the opposite side of the most outspoken anti-war activists who are a force in the Democratic primaries.

Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois reminded the party's rank-and-file - twice - that he was against the Iraq invasion from the beginning.

"But whether you were for it or against it then, we all have a responsibility now to put forth a plan that offers the best chance of ending the bloodshed and bringing the troops home," Obama told the audience.

Edwards voted with Clinton in 2002 to authorize Bush's war against Iraq, a vote he defended during his 2004 presidential race but has since said was a mistake. The former North Carolina senator has gone from being a war apologist to one of the most outspoken critics of the invasion in this campaign.

"Silence is a betrayal," Edwards said, one of 11 times he used the word betrayal in his 18-minute speech. "It is a betrayal not to stop this president's plan to escalate the war when we have the responsibility, the power and the ability to stop it. We cannot be satisfied with passing nonbinding resolutions that we know this president will ignore."

Edwards was referring to a measure being debated in the Senate that would say lawmakers disagree with the president's decision to increase troop levels in an effort to stabilize Baghdad. Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd, another 2008 candidate, also criticized the effort as meaningless.

"I don't believe spending a week debating a nonbinding resolution is the change that America voted for" in November when Democrats won a majority in Congress, Dodd said. "With all due respect, a real bill and real teeth and real accountability is what is needed in our country again."

Clinton said while the resolution may not be perfect, it represents the first time Congress has stood against the president on the war.

"There are many people who wish we could do more," Clinton said.

"You can!" came a call from a small gathering of activists from the peace group Code Pink. Others in their group standing along a side wall chimed in, calling for a binding resolution that would end the war immediately, while some nearby audience members asked them to quiet down.

"But let me say," Clinton said, her voice rising above the din, "that if we can get a large, bipartisan vote to disapprove this president's plan for escalation, that will be the first time that we will have said no to President Bush and began to reverse his policies. Now, I want to go further."

"Bring them home, then," said a man dressed in desert camouflage that said "Iraq Veterans Against the War." Clinton said she has proposed capping U.S. troop levels and pulling funding for Iraqi forces, but won't cut funding for U.S. troops while they are on the battlefield.

"And let me add one other thing, and I want to be very clear about this," she said. "If I had been president in October of 2002, I would not have started this war."

Former Gen. Wesley Clark, who has not indicated whether he will run, said he's the only potential candidate with the battlefield experience to succeed in Iraq.

Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich called for an immediate end to the war - the same message he ran on in 2004. But it's now is being echoed by several other candidates in a stronger position to win the nomination.

[Roguish Lawyer]

I hate that bitch.

[Bill Harsey]

She didn't seem to pay attention to this stuff the last time she was president.

[HOLLiS]

I hate that bitch.


Now now, there is a reason she wears long dresses so technically she is not a bitch, But it would violate the rating of this group to explain.

[CDRODA396]

Oh, she'll end it alright..in Iraq... then just like TR said, we can look forward to the front lines of the War On Terror being in our backyard...and the very real possibility she'll win is out there...If the voting public doesnt wake the fuck up and get out and vote, it could get really ugly, really ugly.

[bandycpa]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

She didn't seem to pay attention to this stuff the last time she was president.

LOL! Nice one, Mr. Harsey! :lifter

That one should go in the "Best Of" Quotes section.


Bandy

[Gypsy]

Clinton said while the resolution may not be perfect, it represents the first time Congress has stood against the president on the war.



And that's obviously more important than anything else as it relates to the war. You know, the war against the animals who want all of us dead and will not stop in their quest.

[jasonglh]

Its amazing how quickly she adapts to the new audience:

Senator Clinton won't run out use of force to stop 'pro-terrorist' Iran (http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Senator_Clinton_wont_run_out_war_0203.html)

At a speech Friday to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) said "no option can be taken off the table" when dealing with Iran, RAW STORY has learned.

[bandycpa]

Originally Posted by jasonglh
Its amazing how quickly she adapts to the new audience:

The scary part is: that's how her husband won the Presidency back in 1992.

Hopefully, lightning won't strike twice.


Bandy

[The Reaper]

The scary part is: that's how her husband won the Presidency back in 1992.

Hopefully, lightning won't strike twice.

Bandy

Well, anybody tried throwing a bucket of water on her yet?

TR

[CoLawman]

Those who are advocating leaving Iraq without winning apparently pay little attention to the what if scenarios:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

November 2006 Import Highlights: Released on February 2, 2007
Monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in November 2006 has been released and it shows that three countries have each exported more than 1.40 million barrels per day to the United States, and one country shows exports of greater than 2.00 million barrels per day. Including those countries, a total of four countries exported over 1.00 million barrels per day of crude oil to the United States (see table below). The top five exporting countries accounted for 71 percent of United States crude oil imports in November while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 89 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports. The top sources of US crude oil imports for November were Canada (2.064 million barrels per day), Mexico (1.462 million barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1.444 million barrels per day), Venezuela (1.088 million barrels per day), and Nigeria (0.919 million barrels per day). The rest of the top ten sources, in order, were Iraq (0.573 million barrels per day), Angola (0.505 million barrels per day), Algeria (0.253 million barrels per day), Kuwait (0.253 million barrels per day), and Ecuador (0.243 million barrels per day). Total crude oil imports averaged 9.837 million barrels per day in November, which is a decrease of 0.295 million barrels per day from October 2006.

Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum products in November, exporting 2.598 million barrels per day to the United States, which was a large increase from last month (2.144 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum products was Mexico once again with 1.584 million barrels per day.

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Nov-06 Oct-06 YTD 2006 Nov-05 Jan - Nov 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA 2,064 1,704 1,778 1,756 1,609
MEXICO 1,462 1,481 1,606 1,658 1,542
SAUDI ARABIA 1,444 1,322 1,417 1,267 1,445
VENEZUELA 1,088 1,125 1,148 1,009 1,246
NIGERIA 919 1,049 1,046 1,163 1,068
IRAQ 573 505 566 572 540
ANGOLA 505 506 504 658 458
ALGERIA 253 449 352 265 230
KUWAIT 253 234 180 273 223
ECUADOR 243 315 274 264 270
BRAZIL 156 171 134 65 88
UNITED KINGDOM 119 74 131 229 241
CHAD 118 109 93 33 78
NORWAY 81 120 97 103 124
AZERBAIJAN 77 88 23 0 0

The point being.......we are going to wind right back in there as soon as Iran and Venezuela try to bring us to our knees by choking off our oil from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Venezuela.

And it won't take long to bring us to our knees. I seem to recall the oil embargo in the early 70's, and that was miniscule when compared to this most probable, IMO, scenario if we pull out.

These zealots realize our vulnerabilities and Iran and Chavez will take advantage of our weak kneed and vocal anti war posturing. Hillary Clinton does not strike fear in the hearts of these zealots.

What was the result of pulling out of Viet Nam? 2 or 3 million deaths?

I do not buy into the argument that stopping imports to the US would be "cutting off their nose to spite their face...." where Iran and Venezuela are concerned.

As I see it, fighting terror on our shores is going to be the least of our problems, if we pull out.

Are we going to seek UN resolutions to resolve an oil embargo? If Hillary or a Democrat get in.......it is a guarantee. Meanwhile our economy reels with disastorous results.

It is time to kick the lawyers out of the military and become Trumanesque! Get mean and stop waiting for approval from JAG before conducting operations. POTUS has only weeks before this tsunami over takes his best intentions.

Since the Dems rally around the premise that everyone hates us, why does it matter if we cast aside the niceties. Will this cause them to hate us more? Ridiculous.

Various MSM outlets and Left wing organizations already blame us for each and every civilian casualty, knowing full well that the deaths were the result of insurgent actions. If we are getting the tally, then we might as well ignore collateral damage.

I know this sounds like a Michael Savage rant, but I am really concerned that people like Hillary are leading us like sheep to a slaughter.

History is replete with foolhardy optimism:

The Holocaust
The Killing Fields of Cambodia
Rwanda
9/11
Hiroshima
Korea
Pearl Harbor

I hope and pray I am wrong, but taking copious notes from the "Be Prepared Thread" takes on a new light when considering what if a major oil embargo.

Thank you for allowing me to vent, to someone other than my elected officials. I wonder if they think I am a nut?:mad:

[CoLawman]

Well, anybody tried throwing a bucket of water on her yet?

TR

Now that was funny!.............Wicked witch....Get it? LMAO!

[The Reaper]

Now that was funny!.............Wicked witch....Get it? LMAO!

See amigo?

I knew you could laugh!

BTW, I thought Hiroshima was pragmatism?

TR

[BMT (RIP)]

Another what if scenario:

The Red Diesel get's elected.
The troops are pulled out.
Recuriting and retention drops across the board.

Major city gets hit.

What will the Red Diesel do now??



:munchin

BMT

[Goggles Pizano]

Another what if scenario:

The Red Diesel get's elected.
The troops are pulled out.
Recuriting and retention drops across the board.

Major city gets hit.

What will the Red Diesel do now??



:munchin

BMT

Blame it on the right wing conspiracy.:rolleyes:

[CoLawman]

BTW, I thought Hiroshima was pragmatism?

TR


It certainly was, see my "Trumanesque" comment.

I was using Hiroshima as an historical event that was unimaginable and unprecedented in immediate alteration of lives, economy, and governmental rule. That single event ( and Nagasaki) ,arguably, even changed the people's perception of their Diety.

[rubberneck]

What will the Red Diesel do now??

BMT

Bring suit in federal court and issue arrest warrants.:rolleyes:

[The Reaper]

Another what if scenario:

The Red Diesel get's elected.
The troops are pulled out.
Recuriting and retention drops across the board.

Major city gets hit.

What will the Red Diesel do now??

:munchin

BMT

Well, what has happened to most of the other enemies of the Klintons? Do we need to bring that list out again?

No doubt the opponents will commit suicide or die under mysterious circumstances.

Seriously, I predict that if the Dims hold the Congress and win the Presidency, there will be another attack on the US, possibly with WMD.

TR

[JMI]

Seriously, I predict that if the Dims hold the Congress and win the Presidency, there will be another attack on the US, possibly with WMD.

TR
I respectively submit that Dems said the same thing when Bush got elected to a 2nd term, and in fact some of the same things I am hearing from the right I was hearing from the left.

We will be attacked when they are ready, and not because of who is in the WH, IHMO. What better time to attack than now, when we are overextended on two fronts. Probably because they are not ready.

[The Reaper]

I respectively submit that Dems said the same thing when Bush got elected to a 2nd term, and in fact some of the same things I am hearing from the right I was hearing from the left.

We will be attacked when they are ready, and not because of who is in the WH, IHMO. What better time to attack than now, when we are overextended on two fronts. Probably because they are not ready.

I disagree.

As strong anti-terrorism policies, like the database mining, warrantless wiretaps, interrogations and incarcerations at Gitmo, etc. are discarded by the Dims, the odds of catching terrorists before the event goes way down.

Under a Dim Administration, terrorists will have their full Constitutional rights to privacy, which will include to plan strikes against the U.S.

How many terrorist acts have occurred in the U.S, under the Bush Administration, compared to the Klinton Administration, and what have the responses been? How many have occurred in the U.S. since 9/11?

If I were a terrorist, I would much rather operate under the Dims than the Repubs. What are they going to do, cruise missile some more empty camps?

TR

[tk27]

Do you think extreme-right wing terrorism will come back if Hillary is elected?
What about collaboration w/ the and AQ? I still have my suspicions about the Nichols-Cebu City link.

I don't see much of a difference between repubs and dems, but I see these nuts coming back out of the woodwork if Hillary is elected. I think Hofstadter nailed it for the ages with his paranoid style of American politics.

[Dub]

If there has ever been a difference its now, with more repubs wanting an active persecution of the war on terror, while dems would rather get out, and watch what happens (which will be things going further south). Thats a large difference to me.

[Team Sergeant]

Another what if scenario:

The Red Diesel get's elected.
The troops are pulled out.
Recuriting and retention drops across the board.

Major city gets hit.

What will the Red Diesel do now??

:munchin

BMT

I'll add to this.........

Red Diesel vows, if elected, to end war in the Middle East.

Red Diesel gets elected.

US troops are given a 6 month deadline to pull out of the ME. At the same time Red Diesel secretly orders all covert missions to capture/killing Al Qaeda members cease immediately. Red Diesel also orders all secret prisons closed and the GWOT POW’s immediately repatriated to country of capture.

Al Qaeda (without pressure) goes to ground and waits/plans. A global islamic terrorism strategy is discussed between the terrorist leaders of North Korea, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, UAE, Jordan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Europe and the United States.

US Contractors continue the mission in Iraq.

Military moral, recruiting, retention, patriotism drops to a historic low. Red Diesel’s answer is to drop standards and offer $50,000-$100,000 sign up bonus. Moral, recruiting, retention, and patriotism continues to drop nationwide.

The six month deadline passes, as a show of peace all US troops are withdrawn from the M.E. to include the Straits of Hormuz & Persian Gulf.

islamic radicals are smiling, thank allah and strike simultaneously in Iraq, Lebanon, Israel, north and central Africa, Europe, and the United States.

In Iraq shite and sunni unite to rid Iraq of the infidels. Unarmed contractors are targeted first, kidnapped by the hundreds, tortured and beheaded on al jazeera news. Red Diesel asks UN intervention, UN security consul convenes and discusses the situation for weeks before condemning the torture and beheadings. UN security will take no action to deploy troops to the ME. Thousands of contractors seek refuge in Kuwait, thousands more are captured and held hostage by islamic radicals demanding war crimes charges be brought again the former POTUS. They also demand war reparations be paid to Iraq and the Taliban reinstated as the true government of Afghanistan, or the beheadings will continue. Red Diesel breaks a long standing principle and publicly negotiates with the terrorists.

Lebanon; Hamas, Hezbollah and Abbas’s Fatah cease fighting and attack Israel with a massive wave of diversionary suicide and rocket attacks. These diversionary attacks keep the forces of Israel occupied as a small team of Iranian commandos place a low yield nuclear device in the heart of Israel. After the device explodes war planes from Syria and Egypt attack Israel’s military bases and infrastructure ensuring the destruction of Israel.

As the western world discusses the events low yield nuclear devices detonate in various places in Europe and the UK. These attacks coincide with the yearly muslim hajj. (As a side note millions of European, UK and US muslims are highly encouraged to attend this years hajj by local muslim inmans.)

Al Qaeda contacts former friends of Pablo Escobar to have 10high yeild nuclear devices professionally smuggled into the US from Mexico. This event is made even easier because Red Diesel has "opened" the Southern border to further free trade and better relations with Latin America countries. Eight of ten devices are successfully detonated in the United States. All denotations are located in large cities and all have the same results, millions are killed or wounded. Radiation levels are such that the contaminated areas will be a no man zone for decades. The radioactive particles are traced to a North Korean reactor but Red Diesel demands public confirmation of these results before she will take action. Millions of muslims around the world rejoice at the news of the destruction, millions more join the islamic jihad.

The United States, UK and European Union are on their collective knees.

With no specific country to target no retaliation was taken. During an emergency UN Security meeting China and Russia voted to take no action against Syria and Egypt for their actions against Israel thus negating any action considered by the beleaguered Western Nations. (side note: France’s new muslim president abstained from the vote.)

There are just a few thoughts I had if and when Red Diesel becomes POTUS.

TS

[82ndtrooper]

It certainly was, see my "Trumanesque" comment.

I was using Hiroshima as an historical event that was unimaginable and unprecedented in immediate alteration of lives, economy, and governmental rule. That single event ( and Nagasaki) ,arguably, even changed the people's perception of their Diety.

WOW !!!:eek: Here I was all ready stirring up the cocktails for the Super Bowl and TR and COLAWMAN are talking 3 dimensionally about the philosophy of truth and concequences !!

One think can be said about Hiroshima. If it was simply a pragmatic act, it certainly delivered consequences to Japan that were far beyond Pierces original study of what became "Pragmatism"

I'm back to the beer !!! :munchin

[The Reaper]

Do you think extreme-right wing terrorism will come back if Hillary is elected?
What about collaboration w/ the and AQ? I still have my suspicions about the Nichols-Cebu City link.

I don't see much of a difference between repubs and dems, but I see these nuts coming back out of the woodwork if Hillary is elected. I think Hofstadter nailed it for the ages with his paranoid style of American politics.

That will depend on the policies she tries to create, if she is elected. The Nichols conspiracy theory ranks right up there with black helicopters and wearing tinfoil hats.

Personally, should Hillary become POTUS, I am much more worried about nuts like Janet Reno and Sandy Berger coming out of the woodwork and taking positions of power again.

TR

[pegasus]

I'll add to this.........

Red Diesel vows, if elected, to end war in the Middle East.



Would you mind if I shared this entire post?

[Team Sergeant]

Would you mind if I shared this entire post?

Be my guest.

[82ndtrooper]

That will depend on the policies she tries to create, if she is elected. The Nichols conspiracy theory ranks right up there with black helicopters and wearing tinfoil hats.

Personally, should Hillary become POTUS, I am much more worried about nuts like Janet Reno and Sandy Berger coming out of the woodwork and taking positions of power again.

TR


with Janet Reno one statement comes to mind..."The MP5 has become the instrument of American civil policy"

[CoLawman]

I respectively submit that Dems said the same thing when Bush got elected to a 2nd term, and in fact some of the same things I am hearing from the right I was hearing from the left.

I recall the Dems spewing rhetoric regarding how we got into Iraq, the need to pull out of Iraq, and the denigration of personal liberties and freedoms due to the Patriot Act etc. I also recall they intentionally downplayed the threat of new terrorist threats on our shores. To have mentioned this as a threat would have highlighted one of the Bush administration's successes......no post 9/11 attacks.

We will be attacked when they are ready, and not because of who is in the WH, IHMO.

Again, I must disagree. The terrorist attacks are not forumlated in a vacuum. Were they not emboldened during the Clinton years by his failure to act on;
First WTC attack?
Khobar Towers?
African Embassies?

They have attempted new terrorist attacks post 9/11 but were interrupted do to the Patriot Act and other policies put into place under this administration.

What better time to attack than now, when we are overextended on two fronts. Probably because they are not ready.

Over extended is relative. If we were not engaged in the GWOT in the current theatres, would the threat to our homeland be greater? I believe so.

One can argue that we were overextended in WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam, as well as Gulf War I. When we are at war, then the bulk or our assets are engaged.

We have assets in the Navy and Air Force that are currently twiddling their thumbs. Other enemy nations are clearly aware of the Shock and Awe that can be brought to bear without ground forces.

Perhaps that is why Iran and Russia are concentrating their efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Another what if scenario:

The Red Diesel get's elected.
The troops are pulled out.
Recuriting and retention drops across the board.

Major city gets hit.

What will the Red Diesel do now??



:munchin

BMT

I guess I'm a little slow, but I don't get the "red diesel" name . . . :confused:

[sg1987]

I'll add to this.........

Red Diesel vows, if elected, to end war in the Middle East.
TS

Here's hoping that you’re not a prophet!!!

[BMT (RIP)]

RED DIESEL was a name given the bitch by the WH staff.

BMT

[CRad]

Excellent nutshell analysis.

Over extended is relative. If we were not engaged in the GWOT in the current theatres, would the threat to our homeland be greater? I believe so.

One can argue that we were overextended in WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam, as well as Gulf War I. When we are at war, then the bulk or our assets are engaged.

We have assets in the Navy and Air Force that are currently twiddling their thumbs. Other enemy nations are clearly aware of the Shock and Awe that can be brought to bear without ground forces.

Perhaps that is why Iran and Russia are concentrating their efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[CRad]

I'll add to this.........

Red Diesel vows, if elected, to end war in the Middle East.

US Contractors continue the mission in Iraq.

Al Qaeda contacts former friends of Pablo Escobar to have 10high yeild nuclear devices professionally smuggled into the US from Mexico. There are just a few thoughts I had if and when Red Diesel becomes POTUS.

TS

My thoughts are this -

1. Politicians lie especially her. She'll say anything to get elected but won't carry through once she's in the WH.

2. Jan Schakowsky (D-Illinois 9th) She sits on the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations and House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Schakowsky already thinks contractors operate without accountability and in secrecy.

3. It's my "uninformed" opinion that drug dealers will look at the plus and minus of acting in concert with terrorists to smuggle nukes. Al Qaeda may pay them big bucks for the assist which is a plus but what will it cost the narco-terrorists in the long run? That would be a minus.

Provide AQ with safe houses, contacts, etc? They are likely doing this already.

[CoLawman]

If there has ever been a difference its now, with more repubs wanting an active persecution of the war on terror, while dems would rather get out, and watch what happens (which will be things going further south). Thats a large difference to me.

I concur with you Dub, just a little editing comment:

I believe you mean prosecution and not persecution. It is the Dems that would like to "persecute" the war on terror and anyone involved in that endeavour.

Patriotism : Thoughtfully considers Medical School or 18D.;)

[CoLawman]

[QUOTE=82ndtrooper]WOW !!!:eek: Here I was all ready stirring up the cocktails for the Super Bowl and TR and COLAWMAN are talking 3 dimensionally about the philosophy of truth and concequences !!


Go back to stirring cocktails rather than the pot! :p

[Sdiver]

RED DIESEL was a name given the bitch by the WH staff.

BMT

I'm with R.L. on this. How did The Wicked Witch of the East get this name?

BMT....you said it was given to her by the WH staff. Was it this Staff, or was it by the staff when she was POTUS before?

....and what's the back story, to this title?

Inquiring minds would like to know. :munchin

[Dub]

Good catch. Its been too long a day studyn in the library. Immunology anyone?

[82ndtrooper]

[QUOTE]


Go back to stirring cocktails rather than the pot! :p



Pot ? Aint no weed in this car officer, I swear it's not mine, where'd that come from? it was the hookers, not mine officer :munchin :p

[82ndtrooper]

Good catch. Its been too long a day studyn in the library. Immunology anyone?


Immunology ?? I'm still confused on how to cross multiply to find the percent composition of Na in NaCl :(

[kgoerz]

Was Red Diesel the Secret Service name given to her? Maybe we need to start a new thread if you want, but doe's anyone have a list of the names POTUS or the people close to him were given while in the WH. I know they are released publicly once POTUS leaves the WH. I believe Clinton's was Bubba, Reagan's was The Duke. I remember what they call the current president from a demo we did for him but will keep it to myself for op sec. Spent a week with current and former Secret Service guys at about the beginning of Clinton's second term...oh the stories I heard over a few Beers with them.

[tk27]

If there has ever been a difference its now, with more repubs wanting an active persecution of the war on terror, while dems would rather get out, and watch what happens (which will be things going further south). Thats a large difference to me.
You are correct in implying the democrats are going to get stuck without a chair when the music stops. They are going to be the scapegoat for failure in Iraq. The "surge" is a half measure, even the Kagan-Keene plan called for 30k troops. But it does get the dems on record as being against the increase in troop levels. Which is enough for a good blame-shame campaign.
You paint with too wide a brush on your distinction between the two parties, but it is exactly how it is going to be spun (reality does not exist in our nations politics, so actually, you will be right).

[Sdiver]

Was Red Diesel the Secret Service name given to her? Maybe we need to start a new thread if you want, but doe's anyone have a list of the names POTUS or the people close to him were given while in the WH. I know they are released publicly once POTUS leaves the WH. I believe Clinton's was Bubba, Reagan's was The Duke. I remember what they call the current president from a demo we did for him but will keep it to myself for op sec. Spent a week with current and former Secret Service guys at about the beginning of Clinton's second term...oh the stories I heard over a few Beers with them.

Oh please do. :D

[kgoerz]

Oh please do.

Not here. Did a goggle but found mostly nicknames that we all heard before

[pegasus]

I'm with R.L. on this. How did The Wicked Witch of the East get this name?



I liked the name and a few things crossed my mind when I read it. Probably has nothing to do with why she got the name.

Diesel: Noisy, hates the cold and slow to heat up. Runs on compression, i.e. a lot of hot air. I'm sure Shrillary thinks she has a lot of power and torque (leverage).

The red part I equate to running constantly at excessively high RPM's. I can't explain the mechanics of it, but I know a diesel can keep on running to the point of exploding. Once it reaches this self-generating state of execution there is no way to shut it down.

Only one problem with the name - I like my diesel.

Ok - end hijack.

.02

[spectre919]

Wouldn't that possibly increase recruitment as many potential recruits who originally might not have joined would reason, "Great! Now I can join the Military, make money, and not have to worry about getting shipped over to Iraq and possibly losing a limb or my life."

B-

If that scenario played out, the number of turds in the military would go up, and the number of good soldiers, sailors, and airmen will decrease. We currently have those types of folks in the military....a certain Army officer comes to mind. The problem is these types of folks are disruptive and bad for good order and discipline. Leadership spends most of it's time coddling and babysitting these assholes, and not on the mission.

I have been told by a few subordinates " I joined the military to pay for college; not to fight in some war." Never forget, the job of the US military in it's most basic form is to "Break shit and kill people"; not Global Meals-on-Wheels or a Feel Good Club.

Oh, and as hard as one might try; You can't pollish a turd.

S

[Dub]

I agree. I would much rather join the army or army SF knowing that a republican, or someone who would carry the fight on would be in power. It scares me to join at a time when someone like 'Red Diesel' could come to power.

It scares me because I feel if she wins we really stop fighting to win and instead pull things a la Blackhawk Down. If I want to join SOF I want to be applied to a fight my country is determined to win not thrown around in a short-winded muscle flexing by Hillary with no real determination, just as a political show. Do any of you feel that was the way some things were treated under previous dems like Bill Clinton?

If I join I want to be out there doing my damnest to win, or damnest to train the indigenous to win. How much more disheartening can it be to know that you may have worked so hard for the past 8 years under Bush to have much of that ripped out if Hillary ever had much of her way?

Am I on target here at all?
- Don

EDIT: How much damage to what has already been accomplished could she really do?

[JMI]

but why would recruitment levels possibly decrease if the troops were pulled out of Iraq?
I don't remember anyone saying levels would go down, but that morale would go down.

[CRad]

Team Sergeant predicted dropping in morale, patriotism, and recruiting in his post.

TS has a good point on the face of it. My thoughts are if she really were elected (and I don't think she will be) the military would remember (after the initial shock) that their commitment is to the Constitution and the United States. They would realize that with her in office they would be needed more than ever and step up.

[jatx]

Team Sergeant predicted dropping in morale, patriotism, and recruiting in his post.

That would be a shame to see. All I can say is that it will take a lot more than some Socialist retread in sensible shoes and a dye job to affect my level of morale and patriotism. Count me in for the duration.

[Hipshot]

..., I agree completely, I just meant overall, that since such people join when it's safer, that recruitment levels might go up instead of down.

:confused:

Do you really think that after having lost a second war that you would have people beating the doors down to join? Just like at the end of WW2, there would be a mass exidus of troops wanting to get out. With the Dems in power, troop levels will be reduced to save money for social programs (their "Peace Dividend"). Like TS forecasts, the Bad Guys sit back, regroup, restock, and wait for us to pull back into our shell - then Bang! Only this time Bang is over here.

[The Reaper]

You guys are scaring the bejeezus out of me with these posts:eek: By the way, just wondering, but why would recruitment levels possibly decrease if the troops were pulled out of Iraq? Wouldn't that possibly increase recruitment as many potential recruits who originally might not have joined would reason, "Great! Now I can join the Military, make money, and not have to worry about getting shipped over to Iraq and possibly losing a limb or my life."

1. The increase in end strength that the Army and Marines are getting would be viewed as unnecessary if we were not fighting a ground war, especially by the Dems (can you say, "Peace Dividend"?

2. Anti-military policies like more gays and more feminization would be pushed through by the Administration. When the Klintons were in with a Dim Congress, there was a commission at Bragg every week investigating some alleged discrimination or bogus hate crime.

3. More peacekeeping responsibilities like the good deals brought by President Klinton like Somalia, Haiti, and the Balkans rather than a real war.

4. As noted, with Hillary as the CINC, morale would drop like a stone. Who wants to work for someone who loathes the military.

5. I saw people get out early or stay longer, just to keep from having Klinton's nam,e on their discharge paperwork. Soldiers have long memories, especially of people who slight them.

6. The soldiers I want are signing up because there is a war going on and their country needs them. Those who come on board for the money, family medical benefits, or college education are not the troops I want to serve with.

HTH.

TR

[NotME]

I'm not sure I could salute this!

[spectre919]

On a side note, you've literally had subordinates say that they joined the Military to pay for college, and not to fight in a war!? I mean, I know many do that, but I can't believe a soldier would actually have the guts to say something like that, especially to a higher-ranking person.


Yes this has actually happened.
Previous to being told this, this particular individual was a persistant problem. After numerous "WTF" sessions, he finally went and did the doozie (don't ask). I went to check on him in pre-trial confinement I asked him "why did you even come in the military?" I explained to him that his actions showed he had NO desire to be in or around the military, and simply wanted to know why he wasted so many peoples time and money. "I didn't come in the military to do this shit, I just wanted money for college." He also stated he didn't think he should have to go fight in a war he didn't start.

This is just one POS that turned out to be a statistical "outlyer." But I have heard others communicate the same point, only they did their jobs and stayed out of trouble.

Back to Skynard.....

[echoes]

Prophetic words from some very Wise Men, IMHO...

Definately generates some perspective on what is happening, unfortunatly, now.:(

02-04-2007, 07:10
Another what if scenario:
The Red Diesel get's elected.
The troops are pulled out.
Recuriting and retention drops across the board.
Major city gets hit.
What will the Red Diesel do now??
:munchin BMT
02-04-2007, 10:39
...
As strong anti-terrorism policies, like the database mining, warrantless wiretaps, interrogations and incarcerations at Gitmo, etc. are discarded by the Dims, the odds of catching terrorists before the event goes way down.

Under a Dim Administration, terrorists will have their full Constitutional rights to privacy, which will include to plan strikes against the U.S.

How many terrorist acts have occurred in the U.S, under the Bush Administration, compared to the Klinton Administration, and what have the responses been? How many have occurred in the U.S. since 9/11?

If I were a terrorist, I would much rather operate under the Dims than the Repubs. What are they going to do, cruise missile some more empty camps? TR
02-04-2007, 11:55
I'll add to this.........

Red Diesel vows, if elected, to end war in the Middle East.

Red Diesel gets elected.

US troops are given a 6 month deadline to pull out of the ME. At the same time Red Diesel secretly orders all covert missions to capture/killing Al Qaeda members cease immediately. Red Diesel also orders all secret prisons closed and the GWOT POW’s immediately repatriated to country of capture.

Al Qaeda (without pressure) goes to ground and waits/plans. A global islamic terrorism strategy is discussed between the terrorist leaders of North Korea, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, UAE, Jordan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Europe and the United States.

US Contractors continue the mission in Iraq.

Military moral, recruiting, retention, patriotism drops to a historic low. Red Diesel’s answer is to drop standards and offer $50,000-$100,000 sign up bonus. Moral, recruiting, retention, and patriotism continues to drop nationwide.

The six month deadline passes, as a show of peace all US troops are withdrawn from the M.E. to include the Straits of Hormuz & Persian Gulf.

islamic radicals are smiling, thank allah and strike simultaneously in Iraq, Lebanon, Israel, north and central Africa, Europe, and the United States.

In Iraq shite and sunni unite to rid Iraq of the infidels. Unarmed contractors are targeted first, kidnapped by the hundreds, tortured and beheaded on al jazeera news. Red Diesel asks UN intervention, UN security consul convenes and discusses the situation for weeks before condemning the torture and beheadings. UN security will take no action to deploy troops to the ME. Thousands of contractors seek refuge in Kuwait, thousands more are captured and held hostage by islamic radicals demanding war crimes charges be brought again the former POTUS. They also demand war reparations be paid to Iraq and the Taliban reinstated as the true government of Afghanistan, or the beheadings will continue. Red Diesel breaks a long standing principle and publicly negotiates with the terrorists.

Lebanon; Hamas, Hezbollah and Abbas’s Fatah cease fighting and attack Israel with a massive wave of diversionary suicide and rocket attacks. These diversionary attacks keep the forces of Israel occupied as a small team of Iranian commandos place a low yield nuclear device in the heart of Israel. After the device explodes war planes from Syria and Egypt attack Israel’s military bases and infrastructure ensuring the destruction of Israel.

As the western world discusses the events low yield nuclear devices detonate in various places in Europe and the UK. These attacks coincide with the yearly muslim hajj. (As a side note millions of European, UK and US muslims are highly encouraged to attend this years hajj by local muslim inmans.)

Al Qaeda contacts former friends of Pablo Escobar to have 10high yeild nuclear devices professionally smuggled into the US from Mexico. This event is made even easier because Red Diesel has "opened" the Southern border to further free trade and better relations with Latin America countries. Eight of ten devices are successfully detonated in the United States. All denotations are located in large cities and all have the same results, millions are killed or wounded. Radiation levels are such that the contaminated areas will be a no man zone for decades. The radioactive particles are traced to a North Korean reactor but Red Diesel demands public confirmation of these results before she will take action. Millions of muslims around the world rejoice at the news of the destruction, millions more join the islamic jihad.

The United States, UK and European Union are on their collective knees.

With no specific country to target no retaliation was taken. During an emergency UN Security meeting China and Russia voted to take no action against Syria and Egypt for their actions against Israel thus negating any action considered by the beleaguered Western Nations. (side note: France’s new muslim president abstained from the vote.)

There are just a few thoughts I had if and when Red Diesel becomes POTUS. TS

[echoes]

:confused: Like TS forecasts, the Bad Guys sit back, regroup, restock, and wait for us to pull back into our shell - then Bang! Only this time Bang is over here.

In addition to the previous points, well said Sir!

Holly:munchin