Supplements

[stinney]

Hey Guys,
I’m sorry if this topic has bee covered in another post, I Searched. No ceegar.
I was wondering what if any supplements are allowed at SFAS and the rest of the pipeline, I know that Ephedra based products and Creatine are not but was wondering what is? Not necessarily performance enhancement supplements but more like the Multivitamin, calcium E & C, Fiber kind?
Along those same lines what about Sports bars/drinks (power bars etc..

Also, I was wondering what the operator’s eat/drink/supplement with both in garrison and in the field.

Thanks

[Radar Rider]

Is it on the packing list? Have you seen the packing list? No? If it's not on the list, don't take it.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Radar Rider
Is it on the packing list? Have you seen the packing list? No? If it's not on the list, don't take it.

Exactly.

This is Special Forces Assessment and Selection, NOT Gucci Gear Try for the Wannabe Straight Guy.

Read the list.

Deviate from it at your own peril.

For you 18Xs, that would be 5 years in an Infantry Division, not necessarily the 82nd.

TR

[Solid]

My doctor tells me that supplements are pretty useless unless you have a deficiency, which most healthy people don't.

Is that right??

Solid

[NousDefionsDoc]

Solid,
Take it to the med forum.

Stinney - do pushups.

[stinney]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Stinney - do pushups.

Roger that,Doc. How many and with which hand?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Let's see, SBT 12, so 1,200 for that. Navy alone is worth another 1k, so that's 2,200. That should do it.

Since you're Navy, you may use both arms and not elevate your feet.

Recover on you own.:lifter

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

SFAS is assessing you not your ability to perform on supplements. We want to see how you perform as a person not a chemist.

Für die Sicherheit
Jack Moroney

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

I use suppliments for my current training program, but thats only to stay healthy up until selection.

Honestly all you really need is a good multi-vitamin and possibly a Protein suppliment. I've increased all of my physical abilities and added 30 points to my PT test... But this aint shit unless you prepare mentally. How do you do that? How the hell do I know, I've never been. Just going to prepare physically, and hope that I make it through based on my preparations and experience by listening to BTDT's...

[Razor]

Protein supplements? What, are you a competitive bodybuilder? Significant research has shown that you only need 0.6 - 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day to meet your nutritional needs, even if you're preparing for SFAS, BUD/S, or what have you. Would you like to guess where all that expensive, extra protein in your diet is going? Literally, right down the toilet in the form of excess urea in your urine. Additionally, you're putting unnecessary stress on your system by requiring more water to assist in the metabolism of the extra protein, and putting an extra workload on your liver and kidneys for no appreciable gain in muscle mass, strength or endurance. But hey, if you want to believe that it gives you an edge, drive on with your bad self. Just be sure to pack a couple extra gallons of drinking water in your ruck during SFAS. At 8lbs a gallon, you will really appreciate the additional challenge.

[Surgicalcric]

I could not have explained better the use/abuse of protein supplements Sir.

Also if any of you are using Creatine Monohydrate stop. It also does very bad things to your kidneys if not used wisely.

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

I don't use creatine nor do I use Protein in any excess amount. Protein is not just for bodybuilders and if used correctly can and will increase strength and muscle endurance. Also, I will obviously not be using protein suppliments during selection. Of course, results will not be the same for everyone. As for myself, I know my body well enough and can testify that protein has helped. You are correct in the fact that consumption of mass amounts of water is recommended. All I ever really drink is water. On heavy workout days I will consume anywhere from 2-3 gallons of water.

4x per week: +40g of Protein added to normal diet
Off Days: +18g of Protein added to normal diet

Bodybuilders consume anywhere from 60-80g of Protein if not more. I am in no way buff in those respects.

APFT before Protein, Multi-Vitamin Suppliment, Diet: 260's (Steadily increased from 230 at approximitly 5-8 point increase per month of steady workout program.)

APFT after Protein, Multi-Vitamin SUppliment, Diet: 320 (Increase from 260's at approximitly 9-12 point increase per month of the same steady workout program.)

My disclaimer is this; this is based off my body and my body limitations. Results will not be the same for all, but I wanted to share my experiences here incase others could benefit. Adding 90 points to your APFT is not easy and takes dedication. Protein and Suppliments alone will not help. They are not cure-alls. You have to use them correctly and the way that best fits to your physical needs. It should be said noted that while I am in the 320's, I have not increased significantly in the past 2-months (Maybe 2-5 points). Levels of physical fitness are met by tiers of difficulty. With my current work-out, I doubt I will break 330 unless I step it up. It is twice as hard to stay in shape, as it is to get in shape.

Hope this explains my previous post better.

-Chaotic the "Body" Virtuoso ;)

[DoctorDoom]

40 grams a day of extra protein? Wow... I would have thought that your body can't process that much protein... probably crap it right out, doesn't even reach the kidneys as urea...

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by ChaoticVirtuoso
I don't use creatine nor do I use Protein in any excess amount. Protein is not just for bodybuilders and if used correctly can and will increase strength and muscle endurance. Also, I will obviously not be using protein suppliments during selection. Of course, results will not be the same for everyone. As for myself, I know my body well enough and can testify that protein has helped. You are correct in the fact that consumption of mass amounts of water is recommended. All I ever really drink is water. On heavy workout days I will consume anywhere from 2-3 gallons of water.

4x per week: +40g of Protein added to normal diet
Off Days: +18g of Protein added to normal diet

Bodybuilders consume anywhere from 60-80g of Protein if not more. I am in no way buff in those respects.

APFT before Protein, Multi-Vitamin Suppliment, Diet: 260's (Steadily increased from 230 at approximitly 5-8 point increase per month of steady workout program.)

APFT after Protein, Multi-Vitamin SUppliment, Diet: 320 (Increase from 260's at approximitly 9-12 point increase per month of the same steady workout program.)

My disclaimer is this; this is based off my body and my body limitations. Results will not be the same for all, but I wanted to share my experiences here incase others could benefit. Adding 90 points to your APFT is not easy and takes dedication. Protein and Suppliments alone will not help. They are not cure-alls. You have to use them correctly and the way that best fits to your physical needs. It should be said noted that while I am in the 320's, I have not increased significantly in the past 2-months (Maybe 2-5 points). Levels of physical fitness are met by tiers of difficulty. With my current work-out, I doubt I will break 330 unless I step it up. It is twice as hard to stay in shape, as it is to get in shape.

Hope this explains my previous post better.

-Chaotic the "Body" Virtuoso ;)

Body:

I disagree with your program, your thesis, and your cause and effect analysis.

I think you are in for a great big surprise here, but hope it works out well for you regardless.

What will your body do when you get deprived off all of this chemical assistance and you get broken down for several weeks should be an interesting case study.

I look forward to seeing you, or your report.

TR

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

40g is not boat-load. And yes much of it is 'crapped' out, but what isnt? Your body never utilizes all the goodies you consume.

[DoctorDoom]

Originally posted by ChaoticVirtuoso
40g is not boat-load. And yes much of it is 'crapped' out, but what isnt? Your body never utilizes all the goodies you consume.

I guess I'm with Razor, it doesn't sound like there is any utility to the increased protein intake if you can't actually absorb it... and although it's true that we don't utilize all that we consume as a matter of course, consuming any nutrient over the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE metabolic processing rather than consuming enough to account for normal wastage are two different issues.

I am also confused as to how protein intake increases muscle endurance?

Then again, I'm a surgery runt, so what do I know...

[QRQ 30]

DAYEM!! The virtuoso truly sounds chaotic as well as being a walking commercial for GNC.

I'm not a medic but I have learned that under most circumstances the normal diet supplies sufficient vitamins and minerals and other $hit. The body doesn't store them up, it eliminates excess. So to speak, you are pissing your money down the drain. You may not believe it, but army rations were engineered to supply the necessary nutrients for the stated mission. That is a reason rations are doubled and tripled under certain circumstances such as the Arctic.

GRRRRW!! :lifter

[Surgicalcric]

CV:

Do a search and find out how many triathletes, bikers, long distance runners use protein during training.

Protein suppliments are for mass gains, not increasing muscule endurance during a specific exercise/task. If you have some scientific proof I, like a few others here, would love to see it.

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

Reaper, respectively you reply as if my current intake of suppliments is off the chart. As with anything concerning nutrition, too much of anything is not good. +40g of Protein on workout days will not adversely effect performance after the suppliment is not being taken. The only forseeable difference will be in muscle mass which will deteriorate in SFAS anyways. Performance will suffer over time of course, but in 24-days I do not see it as being any significant problem.

Deprivation of a daily multi-vitamin and added (ONLY +40g) protein will not harm me in such a way that I it should warrant great concern.

It should be noted that protein from a plant source (whey) is completely recommended over the comsumption of an animal source (meats).

Even at 0.6 - 0.8g per /lb. of body weight (which I think could be on the low end), I am still consuming 110-150g of Protein a day. +20-25% is not all that detrimental.

-CV

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

I am not here to provide scientific proof. Just wanted to share my experiences and what I use and do. I personally have experienced a good deal amount of improvement physically. I have no intent of being a body-builder and can only go on results. I use whey protein purely for the added amino-acid benefits for muscle recovery and building.

Ill stop replying as this is turning into a brush-fire =P

Ill leave it with stats and results. Take or leave... Either way, anyone looking to take suppliments should first do research.

Height: 5'10
Weight: 185
Sex: Male
Age: 22

Suppliments Used---
GNC Pro Protein: 40g workout days/18g daily otherwise
Centrum Silver: 1-tablet daily (Aye the one for old people believe it or not =P)

Results:---
APFT before Protein, Multi-Vitamin Suppliment, Diet: 260's (Steadily increased from 230 at approximitly 5-8 point increase per month of steady workout program.)

APFT after Protein, Multi-Vitamin SUppliment, Diet: 320 (Increase from 260's at approximitly 9-12 point increase per month of the same steady workout program.)

Workout Program?---
I could post a few pages on this, but I go for reps and sets over increased weight. I'm into the hindu squats and push-ups. And I focus more on doing reps slowly and correctly rather than muscling my way through. Off-Days consist of running. Of course every morning we as well have PT which is in addition to my personal program.

-CV

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great debate comrades...

[DoctorDoom]

Originally posted by ChaoticVirtuoso
It should be noted that protein from a plant source (whey) is completely recommended over the comsumption of an animal source (meats).

Even at 0.6 - 0.8g per /lb. of body weight (which I think could be on the low end), I am still consuming 110-150g of Protein a day. +20-25% is not all that detrimental.

-CV

CV, I don't mean to come across as jumping on you, I will be the first to admit I know very little about protein supplementation and the like in the context of demanding physical training. I'm pretty old school that way, just pound regular food and drink water. Plus my workouts just aren't that extreme. So bear with me and my questions.

Protein is protein right? So other than eating low fat non-red meats, why is whey protein considered better than meat protein? Is it more protein per unit weight? per kcal? biologically it wouldn't seem to make a difference.

Are you taking 40gms of protein per day or 40gms of extra protein per day? I read you as taking the whey proteins in addition to dietary protein. Even if you were taking 50% more than metabolic maximums, I don't think it would necessarily be detrimental, but it would mean a significant monetary expenditure on whey protein that seems unnecessary.

Thanks.

*Edited for typos.

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

I take 40g of protein in addition to my current diet. The type of protein I take is from Whey. The only advantage of taking the Whey suppliment is concentration of the protein without the added deficiencies of eating more meats. I could get 40g from a food source however I don't necessarily want to get everything else that comes from it.

Whey protein is easier to digest and contains higher levels of amino-acids (22 in total I believe) all without the calories and toxins of animal protein foods.

Yes, there are plenty of ways to increase protein from eating naturally from low-fat, non-red meats. Chicken and Fish are excellent choices.


EDIT: The proteins are wasted if you do not give you body a chance to use them. You have to have a good workout program to go by in order to maximize the effectiveness of the added suppliment.

EDIT x2: Fellas, I'm in the field and currently on a shower-run. I would love to continue this convo, but may not get to for another week. I will be coming out of the field 13MAY04 and in the mean-time will try to hook-up with the TacSAT fellas and get a slot for internet connection (its good to be commo =P). Thanks for the debate, everyone has good points.

-CV

[Team Sergeant]

CV,

Your medical education or lack there of is showing. I would advise you not to give advice to anyone concerning their training program at least until you are successful in your current endeavor, or possess the proper medical credentials to substantiate your claims with medical facts.

In simple terms, your opinion in regards to the above posts carries very little weight.

If and when you successfully complete Special Forces training I/we would be happy to hear your opinion concerning your “train up.�

Good luck.

Team Sergeant

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

Roger, Out.

[Deception]

My funny thing with this is, 40g of protein would not suffice a bodybuilder, 40g of protein suffices a light workout program.

A bodybuilder on HUGE gains is eating 1.5g of protein per lb of his body weight, and 40g of protein, unless you're sub 20lbs, is far to light for what you should be referring to "bodybuilder" status.

I am a active bodybuilder and I take in a LOT of protein and 2gallons of water a day.

Looks like you've been reading fad diets and how you think they work.

Sorry to tread onto the SF territory, but, I am also training for SFAS and 40g of protein, id lose to much damn muscle mass when I cardio, as I can bet you do as well.

High Reps, Lower Weight, or Low Reps, Lots of Sets, High Weight, either way, your low protein intake is killing you, whether you know it or not.

I wont even rant on supplements, personally ...you need to know what to take, how to take it, what cycles it, and in what dosage to be a real supplement wiz, which, from the post above, and this is me being nice, you need to do some research on the FDA standards of testing for potency and ingredients for what you think your taking.

99% of the time, a multi-vitamin will not cut it, unless its FDA approved for the ingredients it SAYS it has, and not what the BOTTLE says.

Any other questions as to what you wanna beleive you know on supplements and protein intake can be forwarded to me via PM.

Deception Out

Edit : Also, on a SF type of workout with heavy cardio and the like, 0.5 - 0.8g of protein per lb is not gonna be enough to supplement your workout, you WILL lose muscle mass, and go into a spiral, just a FYI.

[QRQ 30]

I thjought this was over but: The human body accustoms itself to its diet. Not speaking of addiction or dependency but what happens if you are deployed and youe supply of magic potients is suddenly cut off?:mad:

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Deception
Any other questions as to what you wanna beleive you know on supplements and protein intake can be forwarded to me via PM.

Deception Out

Edit : Also, on a SF type of workout with heavy cardio and the like, 0.5 - 0.8g of protein per lb is not gonna be enough to supplement your workout, you WILL lose muscle mass, and go into a spiral, just a FYI.

Deception:

If you make it to Camp Mackall, you are going to be smoked, you know that?

What will happen to you after Basic, AIT, Airborne, SOPC I, SFAS, SOPC II, PLDC/BNCOC, and Phase II (six months or so) before you get to visit a gym regularly, or have access to your supplements again?

I would recommend that you guys work on endurance, cardio, and the few specialty events we have discussed, while eating a normal diet with few if any supplements.

QRQ, I can tell you what happens when someone is on steroids too long, and it isn't pretty.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

Need to eat pork - lots of pork. And biscuits. Big biscuits. No potatoes. :D

[Razor]

Deception, I'm in no way a dietician or medical doctor, so I can't argue the protein amounts that I posted from a first-hand point of view. However, I will say that I found those amounts in a published compilation of studies done on the dietary requirements of US Navy BUD/S students, done by a pair of Ph.D.-holding nutritionists who are also accomplished endurance athletes themselves. The studies provided me with scientific, well-researched data and results using several large study groups. What can you give me to endorse your position?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Deception has been deceived by Joe Weider. :lifter

[BadMuther]

Razor hit the nail on the head with his first post.

I went through a "bulking phase" awhile back......I was taking in 350-450 grams of protein a day. I wasn't doing cardio in an effort to gain as much muscle as possible.

What was the outcome? I grew....alot. I was fucking big and strong.........and FAT!!!

I was also shitting CONSTANTLY, and wasting a lot of money.....a GALLON of water a day isn't shit with that kind of protein intake. I was constantly backed up.

I have not been to SFAS. I have read a lot of the same studies that Razor has. I'll tell you what you need for Ranger training...CARBS...lots of them...and water. I imagine it's the same for SFAS.

Protein supplements and weight training really don't have as much correlation with rucking as you might think.

[DoctorDoom]

So Deception, are you saying heavy cardio draws down energy stores so much that you are burning protein for energy? What about glycogen and fat stores?

No matter what, I still think that once you reach a metabolic maximum, taking in extra protein is just a waste.

[Deception]

Ok..

1.) Reaching max cardio is optimal, and I do a LOT of cardio, and I mean, LOTS, and when you do this, if you dont eat a lot, and supplement it with protein in low fat meats, etc, your muscle mass falls victim to your body looking to burn something

2.) I dont use supplements, so I dont need to worry about getting smoked, and besides, im expecting to get smoked, im not expecting to walk into SFAS being all super human and all that jazz, so no worries to me on the experience at SFAS, but thank you for your thoughts Reaper, they are noted and being taken into consideration.

3.) if you have a heavy cardio, heavy weights plan which involves rucking, elliptical, running, rowing, swimming, and focused weights on a set of your body per day, you burn a lot of calories

4.) Im not against eating a lot, you need to eat to keep going, and keep burning off the excess, calories fuel the fire, without calories, you go onto a crash diet and that is not wanted by anyone because in all eventuallity, you will gain what you lose back or fall into a very unhealthy diet.

5.) Lots of protein can be a waste, yes. I reccomend anywhere between 0.88 and 1.25 g of protein per body lb if you are on a heavy workout plan, and doing a lot of activity.

6.) I am in no way a supplement/weight training expert but I do know what works as I have lost well over 85lbs in under 6 months, in a HEALTHY way, not using a crash diet, and the weight still flies off, so you can take my opinions for what they're worth.

7.) Steroids, like in Reaper's reply, yes, are BAD, anabolics will mess you up beyond beleif, ranging from lack of endurance to sluggishness, and all the popular side effects like acne and erectile dysfunction, so....yeah, if you wanna bald early, have horrible skin, and...not please a woman like a man should be able to, go for the anabolics, just take the reccomended dose and not 10x the amount like most juicers do, that is the big mistake they make when they take steroids, is practically ODing on the substance but just enough to where they get the results they want, sad thing is though, once you come off anabolics, you lose muscle mass like its going out of style.

Different diets and plans work out for different people and everyone has their own style, right now, im in fat burn mode which is I take in 50% of the calories for what I burn per day and I get optimal results from this.

Hope that explaination was sufficient for the above comments in my other post.

Deception Out

[QRQ 30]

Deception, yesterday TM said to "stow it". You said: "Roger, Out!" which indicates you understand. Now try "Wilco"!!

BTW: BadMuther is right on. We used to take honey just prior to long swims and long runs. Candy bars are at a primium in Ranger School if they can hide and smuggle them. :munchin

[The Reaper]

Deception, you are an adult and may do as you wish. The Course will be the ultimate arbiter of your prep program.

I strongly suggest that the others who read this do not emulate your regimen, but simply eat healthy and follow the SFAS PT Prep Handbook program.

Good luck to all.

TR

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by QRQ 30
Deception, yesterday TM said to "stow it". You said: "Roger, Out!" which indicates you understand. Now try "Wilco"!!


I had the same reaction, but you are thinking of a different poster, Chaotic Virtuoso. Same issue, though!

[Sacamuelas]

Originally posted by Deception
I am a active bodybuilder and I take in a LOT of protein and 2gallons of water a day.
I wont even rant on supplements, personally ...you need to know what to take, how to take it, what cycles it, and in what dosage to be a real supplement wiz, which, from the post above, and this is me being nice, you need to do some research on the FDA standards of testing for potency and ingredients for what you think your taking.

99% of the time, a multi-vitamin will not cut it, unless its FDA approved for the ingredients it SAYS it has, and not what the BOTTLE says.



1.) Reaching max cardio is optimal, and I do a LOT of cardio, and I mean, LOTS, and when you do this, if you dont eat a lot, and supplement it with protein in low fat meats, etc, your muscle mass falls victim to your body looking to burn something

2.) I dont use supplements, so I dont need to worry about getting smoked, and besides, im expecting to get smoked, im not expecting to walk into SFAS being all super human and all that jazz, so no worries to me on the experience at SFAS, but thank you for your thoughts Reaper, they are noted and being taken into consideration.

3.) if you have a heavy cardio, heavy weights plan which involves rucking, elliptical, running, rowing, swimming, and focused weights on a set of your body per day, you burn a lot of calories

4.) Im not against eating a lot, you need to eat to keep going, and keep burning off the excess, calories fuel the fire, without calories, you go onto a crash diet and that is not wanted by anyone because in all eventuallity, you will gain what you lose back or fall into a very unhealthy diet.

5.) Lots of protein can be a waste, yes. I reccomend anywhere between 0.88 and 1.25 g of protein per body lb if you are on a heavy workout plan, and doing a lot of activity.

6.) I am in no way a supplement/weight training expert but I do know what works as I have lost well over 85lbs in under 6 months, in a HEALTHY way, not using a crash diet, and the weight still flies off, so you can take my opinions for what they're worth.

7.) Steroids, like in Reaper's reply, yes, are BAD, anabolics will mess you up beyond beleif, ranging from lack of endurance to sluggishness, and all the popular side effects like acne and erectile dysfunction, so....yeah, if you wanna bald early, have horrible skin, and...not please a woman like a man should be able to, go for the anabolics, just take the reccomended dose and not 10x the amount like most juicers do, that is the big mistake they make when they take steroids, is practically ODing on the substance but just enough to where they get the results they want, sad thing is though, once you come off anabolics, you lose muscle mass like its going out of style.

Different diets and plans work out for different people and everyone has their own style, right now, im in fat burn mode which is I take in 50% of the calories for what I burn per day and I get optimal results from this.

Hope that explaination was sufficient for the above comments in my other post.

Deception Out

I am not going to waste my time by making a rebuttal to each of the things you have "recommended" in your infinite knowledge.

I will suffice it to say that anyone that:

who has lost 60lbs in the last SIX months(in a healthy manner of course),
talks as if supplements are needed to "cut it" in one hand then claims he doesn't take that advice himself in the next post
implies he is a health/nutrition guru by posting facts about protein metabolism and needed levels of intake that don't mesh with common physiologic metabolism pathways and principles

is full of .......well, it just makes my BS alarm go off. :rolleyes:

[Deception]

I have used one supplement in my weight loss, Xenadrine EFX, thats it. and its in cycles because like anything, the body adapts to what you're taking, so you have to do it in cycles.

oh and, thank you for the infinite knowledge remark, except after thorough examination of my posts I never implied I have infinite knowledge, but if you wanna tag that on me, go for it.

Oh, and, Xenadrine EFX is ephedrine free, so, cheers on that, I dont need a pure energy booster than is going to run me a higher risk of cardiovascular disease or heart attacks, id like to live longer than that:)

Have a nice day

Deception

[BadMuther]

How old are you?

Your lack of knowledge is showing.

Ephedrine free Xenadrine has similiar effects on your body as the regular Xenadrine....

Both elevate your heart rate...one through ephedra and the other through increased caffeine.

If you are trying to lose weight, you don't do it by shoving in a bunch of protein supplements (ie extra calories).

[Deception]

18

and *sigh* I dont take protein supplements when I lose weight, it kinda..defeats the purpose.

and when you're coming down from 305lbs, losing weight is easy if you know how to do it.

and Xenadrine EFX and Xenadrine + Ephedrine are, similar yet different, both have results that show, just one gives me side effects I dont like. I get really jittery on Ephedrine, EFX doesnt do it to me.

Deception

[Razor]

Deception, you may want to visit this webpage:

http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/apa/rc/weight.htm

I foresee many, many tape tests in your future, should you continue toward your goal of being a soldier.

[Deception]

Ive got all the time in the world to train, the luxury of being 18.

Cheers

Deception

[BadMuther]

I am glad that you are losing weight, but how in the fuck did you get to be that heavy?????

You don't have all the time in the world to be training.....

Figure, most guys on here were prolly fairly active on here as youngsters...and I'm guessing that you weren't. Which means that you will be going against other folks your same age who have spent years running, rucking, swimming, or playing other sports...they will have a head start on you.

FYI.

[Deception]

got that heavy from lots of weights, lots of football (lineman), and heavy eating to maintain my weight on the line.

back in the "days of old" I had a almost 1400lb max on a lateral leg press, because of how weight oriented I was, and what I took.

(Creatine Monohydrate, Protein, 1.5g a day, and power lifting)

They dont have that much of a head start on me, and whatever start they have I will make up.

Doesnt matter what kind of start they get if they're going to quit anyways.

I took that small fact into consideration when thinking that same thing about them being able to show me up.

I dont quit, and I wont quit. They will have to kick my ass out before I stop:) other people who have those couple years head start might not want it as bad as me, so anything can happen, right?

Deception

[Solid]

Deception- when are you looking to enlist?

Thanks,

Solid

[NousDefionsDoc]

The Course will be the ultimate arbiter of your prep program.

Have a very SF Day

[Surgicalcric]

Originally posted by Deception
...back in the "days of old"...

Now thats funny..."days of old" coming from an 18 y/o...

[QRQ 30]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I had the same reaction, but you are thinking of a different poster, Chaotic Virtuoso. Same issue, though!

Darned if you aren't right RL.. Same story but different story teller.

When I was on leave after returning from RVN I worked out at a gym. The trainer put me on "Kelp" pills.When I had a physical my BP was sky high. It turns out that the Kelp tablets were mainly iodine and my Thyroid was already hyper-active. After that nothing extra goes in without first consulting a doctor. Of course we hear that every day and disregard the advice. :boohoo

[DoctorDoom]

Reaching max cardio is optimal, and I do a LOT of cardio, and I mean, LOTS, and when you do this, if you dont eat a lot, and supplement it with protein in low fat meats, etc, your muscle mass falls victim to your body looking to burn something

Right from SENTENCE ONE I knew you had missed the point.

Note to self: No more arguing physiology with novices.

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I had the same reaction, but you are thinking of a different poster, Chaotic Virtuoso. Same issue, though!

Hey, I scuddled ship long ago =P

-CV

[Denny]

I sat and have just read through this whole thread. I have learned somethings that I didnt know before. The most obvious being that over the last month I should have been picking my money out of my excretment lol. Just wanted to be in the best shape for SF selection. IS THAT SUCH A CRIME!! lol I wont disclose how much I spent at that damn GNC but I am gonna go roll up in a ball and cry myself to sleep. Good day to you all :eek:

[QRQ 30]

Let me post a quote from the SFAS web site to explain my attitude towards concentrating on the physical. As an instructor in SFUWO for six years I can't remember failing anyone on account of PT.

This is the place where "Your Mind is Your Best Weapon"

Perfect physical condition alone will not get you through SFAS

The SFAS Course assesses and selects soldiers for attendance at the SFQC

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by DoctorDoom
Right from SENTENCE ONE I knew you had missed the point.

Note to self: No more arguing physiology with novices.

DD, I was going to reply to this thread too, BUT seeing as how there are so many youngsters who are experts in the field of nutrition and human physiology I realized it's a never ending argument.....funny I guess my M.S. in Ex. Sci., years of competitive powerlifting and weightlifting, and 18+ years in the fitness industry don't count.:rolleyes:

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

sigh...

[DoctorDoom]

Originally posted by Ghostrider
DD, I was going to reply to this thread too, BUT seeing as how there are so many youngsters who are experts in the field of nutrition and human physiology I realized it's a never ending argument.....funny I guess my M.S. in Ex. Sci., years of competitive powerlifting and weightlifting, and 18+ years in the fitness industry don't count.

I hear you Ghostrider, it can frustrating to go in circles all the time with 20 year old guys who think that the answer to everything is "Take whey protein and creatine." Weightlifting magazine ads and kungfu mags do not count as "experience" or "research" in my book.

Many health care professionals, doctors included, make the same mistakes. I was in an argument with a dental student recently about this very topic, where he was advising a 5'9"/165 lb. exercise novice who was looking to lose 5-7lbs and some flab to power lift and supplement to 2-3gms of protein per pound body weight per day. Because, you know, cardio burns muscle and the only way to replace it is through protein. :rolleyes:

Damn tooth mechanics... LOL

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

hey now, no need to clump us "young guys" all in one flaming stereotype.

I have yet to hear suggestions on what we should be doing instead. If we all are running into disaster and disappointment, maybe all of you Doctors, Nutritionists, Professional Athletes, etc... could provide us with a few moments of your time and steer us in a more plausable direction instead of bashing every word we post.

Many of us youngsters troll these boards and literally take in everything thing we can from the guys who have made it. Our respect for your dedication and accomplishments are the reason we are here. We too want to succeed. Nothing more...

-CV

[DoctorDoom]

Don't count you as one of those that I am frustrated by, CV, just perhaps taking a little bit more protein than you need, but certainly not like some of the guys I was talking about in my previous post. Unless you are a mouth gardener... LOL

Let me organize my thoughts, get some breakfast, and put up some of my thoughts. Likely the more informed gents here will be here directly to answer your question.

Maybe a new thread? That would be useful for everyone.

And I appreciate your drive to succeed, and thank you for your service. No offense meant.

[QRQ 30]

Originally posted by ChaoticVirtuoso
hey now, no need to clump us "young guys" all in one flaming stereotype.

I have yet to hear suggestions on what we should be doing instead. If we all are running into disaster and disappointment, maybe all of you Doctors, Nutritionists, Professional Athletes, etc... could provide us with a few moments of your time and steer us in a more plausable direction instead of bashing every word we post.

Many of us youngsters troll these boards and literally take in everything thing we can from the guys who have made it. Our respect for your dedication and accomplishments are the reason we are here. We too want to succeed. Nothing more...

-CV

A good course in orienteering would help.

I get a little frustrated with the attitude that Special Forces is an "Adonis" or "Narcissis" unit. We are soldiers, not athletes. If you want to be a pentathlete, fine be one. Soldiers come in all sizes and shapes and ir is what is inside that counts. You are going to be tested on how you can perform under extreme stress and that stress will be there regardless of your body beautiful routine.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by ChaoticVirtuoso
hey now, no need to clump us "young guys" all in one flaming stereotype.

I have yet to hear suggestions on what we should be doing instead. If we all are running into disaster and disappointment, maybe all of you Doctors, Nutritionists, Professional Athletes, etc... could provide us with a few moments of your time and steer us in a more plausable direction instead of bashing every word we post.

Many of us youngsters troll these boards and literally take in everything thing we can from the guys who have made it. Our respect for your dedication and accomplishments are the reason we are here. We too want to succeed. Nothing more...

-CV


Originally posted by The Reaper
I strongly suggest that the others who read this do not emulate your regimen, but simply eat healthy and follow the SFAS PT Prep Handbook program.

I now recommend the addition of a good reading comprehension program.

Or just keep ignoring our advice and looking for the magic pill.

Have a very SF Day.

TR

[stinney]

I didn’t mean for this thread to cause all of this heartache and discontent..... I just wanted to know if us old guys could still take our Geritol during selection....
:D

[Solid]

It seems to me that if you're exercising properly, your body develops into 'good looking' shape all by itself. My mindset is- you're aiming for SFAS, not a damn beauty contest.

Sorry to intrude,

Solid

PS: I knew, KNEW, that DD would get our own Jawbreaker's attention...

[Sacamuelas]

Originally posted by DoctorDoom

Many health care professionals, doctors included, make the same mistakes.

Damn tooth mechanics... LOL

Unless you are a mouth gardener... LOL



Alright... look who came out to play this morning. Trying to stir my interest are you? LOL

Of course I have to agree. I am sure there are plenty of baby jawbreakers that don't know their stuff. They fall in the same boat with or are similar to the in-experienced MD's that pick stocks not treat patients for a living. :p LOL

Not all jawbreakers are as ignorant as the "baby tooth chipper' you met. haha

Alright... that was fun. With NDD "busy" oppressing the liberated, I am glad you decided to pick up his slack in pickin with me and keeping me on my toes.

Back to thread...
Looking forward to your advice... I will chime in when I can.

(Note to all: I do believe Doc Doom knows his stuff... the above was for humor purposes only) haha

[Bill Harsey]

Great information, This has already been said here but the comment that follows is based on about twenty years of observing military special operations and selection courses (from waaay outside). Of course physical fitness and capacity are tested but the most important test is that of the brain under stress. When you are stressed to your physical limit the mental testing is just starting. If I'm wrong, please advise.

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by ChaoticVirtuoso
hey now, no need to clump us "young guys" all in one flaming stereotype.

I have yet to hear suggestions on what we should be doing instead. If we all are running into disaster and disappointment, maybe all of you Doctors, Nutritionists, Professional Athletes, etc... could provide us with a few moments of your time and steer us in a more plausable direction instead of bashing every word we post.

Many of us youngsters troll these boards and literally take in everything thing we can from the guys who have made it. Our respect for your dedication and accomplishments are the reason we are here. We too want to succeed. Nothing more...

-CV

Actually, if you read the posts by the BTDTs they've already told you what to be doing. Bashing only occurs when advice has been given and subsequently ignored.

BUT, since I'm a good guy (or maybe the fact that I got some new gear yesterday :D ), I'll provide a very brief summary. There are no magic pills, diets, or workout programs.....period, end of story. Balanced nutrition, physical training (ie. hard work), and MENTAL preparation lead to success. If that's not specific enough well...it's like I tell my troops: "I will not spoon feed you every bit of information and ultimately personal responsibility and initiative are what pushes one to accomplishments."

I cannot speak for the requirements for SF but if you search a little you will find it on this forum. Best of luck.

[Sacamuelas]

Originally posted by Solid

PS: I knew, KNEW, that DD would get our own Jawbreaker's attention...

I think I am going to have to start performing searches for terms like jawbreaker, gum gardner, mouth mechanic, etc to catch all the incoming lately. LOL I had triple EWWww and teacher trying to shoot at me in other threads this morning. HAHA:cool:

back to thread...

[ChaoticVirtuoso]

DoctorDoom: Thankyou

QRQ 30: That is completely understandable... It should be important for those of us interested in going to SFAS to understand your point

The Reaper: Good suggestion in the first place, but I'm sure we wanted to see more peoples opinions and experiences.

Solid: Roger

Mr. Harsey: Would it be safe to say that one who is in great physical shape can endure more mental stress for longer?

Ghostrider: I don't necessarily think many of us are looking for a magical pill (can only speak for myself). We are interested in increasing our physical abilities in preparation for SFAS. If there are some trade secrets around that will keep us healthy and fit, we would love to partake.

I think what I am getting from you all is:

Do research on Nutrition and develop a rigorous training program that includes the SFAS prep workout. Through your rigorous training program you can learn to develop mental toughness that is the key to success in Special Forces. Suppliments are not recommended as their value is in question. Train long and train hard. Drink water and drive on.

Got it somewhat right?

-CV




I think what I am getting from you all is:

[Team Sergeant]

CV,

Question everything, but do not question the Reaper, not concerning SFAS or SFQC. He has spent more time with SF candidates than you have breathing. Consider yourself fortunate he spends his own time posting on this board and assists the SF candidates in their quest to become a Special Forces soldier.

Your questions have been answered by medical professionals and a few Quiet Professionals. What you decide to do with the information is on you.

Unless one of the Quiet Professionals has an objection this thread is closed.

Team Sergeant