View Full Version : What is going on people???
Goggles Pizano
01-23-2007, 07:21
This should get your blood boiling early today!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245718,00.html
:mad:
Team Sergeant
01-23-2007, 08:09
This article will live on in it's infamy. What a wonderful "people" & religion. Thank you Fox news for reporting this incident.
TS
Tuesday, January 23, 2007
FOXNEWS
An American GI assigned to one of the harshest posts in Iraq had a simple request last week for a Wisconsin mattress company: send some floor mats to help ease the hardship of sleeping on the cold, bug-infested ground.
What he got, instead, was a swift kick from the company's Web site, which not only refused the request but added insult to injury with the admonition, "If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq."
Army Sgt. Jason Hess, stationed in Taji, Iraq, with the 1st Cavalry Division, said he emailed his request to Discount-mats.com because he and his fellow soldiers sleep on the cold ground, which contains sand mites, sand flies and other disease carriers.
In his email, dated Jan. 16, 2007, he asked the Web-based company, registered to Faisal Khetani, an American Muslim of Pakistani descent:
"Do you ship to APO (military) addresses? I'm in the 1st Cavalry Division stationed in Iraq and we are trying to order some mats but we are looking for ships to APO first."
On the same day, Hess received this reply:
"SGT Hess,
We do not ship to APO addresses, and even if we did, we would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq.
Bargain Suppliers
Discount-Mats.com"
Khetani on Monday told FOX News that the person responsible for the email reply had been fired. The Web site, meanwhile, has been temporarily taken down.
Hess emailed that he has since found two mat suppliers willing to ship to an APO address in Iraq.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245718,00.html
x SF med
01-23-2007, 08:10
Um, er, um.... Anything I say will truly get me in trouble and might get the Feebs knocking om my door for hate crimes against 'floor mat suppliers', bastards, real friggin bastards - wait till Pakistan gets it's next disaster and see how much support they get from me.
Sionnach
01-23-2007, 09:14
There's got to be a special corner in hell for people like this.
But **** these people.
Never buying a damn thing from them.
j
Irish_Army01
01-23-2007, 09:41
But **** these people.
Never buying a damn thing from them.
j
you and everyone else..
smanders
01-23-2007, 10:49
Unbelievable!
The Reaper
01-23-2007, 10:52
They will be up and operating as a new company by the end of the month.
The sad thing is that I suspect that the statement reflects the true views of the management.
TR
Snaquebite
01-23-2007, 10:54
It appears that his websight has been shut down. He also has another website (DON'T GO THERE) ( http://www.quality-discount-scooters.com/ ) the scooter site is somehow infected with Bloodhound.Exploit.20 and Trojan.ByteVerify viruses..
Faisal Khetani has a uwm.edu email adress. Same name and phone number found here... http://www.aboutus.org/Basketball-Drills-And-Plays.com Wonder what's happening with that? :rolleyes:
I'm sure there are tons of people Googling "Faisal Khetani"
Irish_Army01
01-23-2007, 12:01
Originally Posted by The Reaper
They will be up and operating as a new company by the end of the month.
IMO, I think no matter what name they change to, this F_uck up will follow them around..
x SF med
01-23-2007, 12:06
I think I see an oxymoron in there - American Muslim - it seems in today's gobal society - you can't truly be both.
I think I see an oxymoron in there - American Muslim - it seems in today's gobal society - you can't truly be both.
I would add the word "committed" to your statement.
I don’t feel one can be both a committed American and a committed Muslim.
I base that statement on the statements made in the Declaration of Independence vs. those in the Koran.
you can't truly be both.
or perhaps did you mean either rather than both? It seems that there are some who would favor neither. (Heavily U.N. minded types)
The Reaper
01-23-2007, 13:51
Well, Cascade, the makers of the Thermarest mattresses I use just verified that they happily ship to APOs without any problems or issues. They also carry a great line of stoves in MSR and outstanding water bladders in Platypus.
Good, American owned company from Harsey's neck of the woods. A lot of military units buy and issue their stuff.
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/
Buy American, from Americans.
TR
x SF med
01-23-2007, 14:27
Thermarest was issued gear when I was at 10th SFG(A) - great product, as are the platypus bladders and the MSR stoves. I believe they give a military discount too, not sure though, it's been a while.
82ndtrooper
01-23-2007, 15:39
They will be up and operating as a new company by the end of the month.
The sad thing is that I suspect that the statement reflects the true views of the management.
TR
It's likely that the email was recieved by someone other than the owner or owners of the mattress company and the individual took the opportunity to reply on behalf of the company with his or her liberal anti-federalist views.
What I picture is some liberal, hemp hugging, tie dyed wearing assistant hacking away at the keyboard before notifying the owner of the request. If I'm correct, this person is probably sitting in line at the unemployment office as we speak. If this is not the case, then senior management has little in the way of personal and professional charachter. His or her successful business plan just went into the toilet with one email. The wonders of simple blunders. :munchin
Good, American owned company from Harsey's neck of the woods. A lot of military units buy and issue their stuff.
Buy American, from Americans.
TR
Here! Here! :lifter
I hope the Soldiers get news of this, and are able to order.
Holly
My beef isn't with the business not wanting to sell products to personnel of the U.S. Armed Forces, but the unprofessional manner in which such a straight forward and sincere request was responded to.
If said person or business did not want to sell the product, a simple "No, we do not ship to APO addresses" would have been sufficient for the Soldier to understand.
It's an open market and there are several business that will do a good job of customer service and taking care of the troops. It is that businessman's loss and if he's willing to eat it, so be it.
With regards to the Pakistani dude who owns the joint, there isn't much information on him either way, so I'm going to hold my tongue. Speaking of others I've encountered in the community, most don't pass up a good business opportunity regardless of their political inclinations. Frankly, none of us know who he is or how virulent his beliefs in Islam are. He is responsible for actions of his company and personnel who represent the company and the combination of such an email along with his background just doesn't look good.
An apology letter for the unprofessional conduct and some compensation would definitely be a start. Unless he really doesn't care. With that type of an attitude, he won't go long in business or customer service.
82ndtrooper
01-23-2007, 16:10
IMO, I think no matter what name they change to, this F_uck up will follow them around..
Serious damage control will be in order. First, they have in fact fired the person that responded to the soldiers email. Second, they need to need a make a formal apology to the American citizens, soldiers and family of the soldiers. This can be done through the media, internet, and local tv and radio.
Second: Start sending hundreds of free mattresses to the 1st Cav.
Third: Send more mattresses to the to the 1st Cav.
Fourth: Send vouchers to the family members of the 1st Cav for discount purchases with a formal letter of apology attached.
Fifth: Send mattresses to to the soldiers of the 1st Cav. :mad:
Roguish Lawyer
01-23-2007, 16:12
Discrimination seems to be OK with these people as long as soldiers are the target . . .
My beef isn't with the business not wanting to sell products to personnel of the U.S. Armed Forces
Mine is. There is nothing "American" about that IMHO.
Holly
Mine is. There is nothing "American" about that IMHO.
Holly
I didn't say I liked it that the guy didn't want to sell to troops. I wouldn't buy from such company nor would I ask others to support it. In the society we live in, there will always be people who don't agree or have poor attitudes towards troops. We don't have to like it, but neither should bad behavior when displayed be tolerated.
The fact the business went out of its way to insult the Soldier, who had a sincere request, just smacks of poor conduct to me. If the answer was "no", the Soldier would have continued his search and found a good company that does support him and our troops.
There are plenty that have skewed viewpoints. But our constitution protects idiots as well as normal folks. Fortunately for the Soldier, information moves fast these days and the market has responded ( I am assuming the last part since the website is down). Hopefully the business learned its lesson to hire competant people and re-adjust their own shitty attitudes.
My 2cents, YMMV.
In the society we live in, there will always be people who don't agree or have poor attitudes towards troops. We don't have to like it, but neither should bad behavior when displayed be tolerated.
There are plenty that have skewed viewpoints. But our constitution protects idiots as well as normal folks.My 2cents, YMMV.
"Our" constitution? Ney sir. Though I am not military, and sometimes step outside my lines by asking stupid "favorite pie questions", I MUST disagree.
IMHO, The QP's and others on this board are humble, and thus elicit a certain type of response from "protestors". As a civilian, however, I deem it my small little insignificant duty to disagree with those who use "The Constitution" as protection.
Holly
As a civilian, however, I deem it my small little insignificant duty to disagree with those who use "The Constitution" as protection.
As a civilian that's perfectly ok with me, too.
I've ran into people that aren't all that supportive of troops, but don't rub it into the face of others. I tell them I disagree with their position and why they are flawed not to support the hard work of our Armed Forces. They tell me why they think (that I'm wrong and why) and we move along.
This company not only denied the Soldier's request, but rubbed it in his face.
All in all, I think we're on the same side here, maybe our logic of how we've come to our conclusions is slightly different.
As a civilian that's perfectly ok with me, too.
I've ran into people that aren't all that supportive of troops, but don't rub it into the face of others. I tell them I disagree with their position and why they are flawed not to support the hard work of our Armed Forces. They tell me why they think (that I'm wrong and why) and we move along.
This company not only denied the Soldier's request, but rubbed it in his face.
All in all, I think we're on the same side here, maybe our logic of how we've come to our conclusions is slightly different.
Well, I run itno people all the time who enjoy, "rubbing it in thier faces."
I use them for paintball practice!:D
Agreed. Holly
The Reaper
01-23-2007, 17:18
All in all, I think we're on the same side here, maybe our logic of how we've come to our conclusions is slightly different.
I do not know the onwer of the company, but my knowledge of businesses in his area leads me to believe that he likely has a bunch of family members and friends working at his business, and that attitude probably permeated his workforce.
Given that, I think that the assumption that we are all on the same side, prior to us becoming a caliphate, being forced to convert to Islam and be judged under Sharia law or die, is likely mistaken.
Many people who live here loathe this country, our military, and everything we stand for.
Quite a few of them seem to be employed by universities and the MSM.
TR
I do not know the onwer of the company, but my knowledge of businesses in his area leads me to believe that he likely has a bunch of family members and friends working at his business, and that attitude probably permeated his workforce.
Given that, I think that the assumption that we are all on the same side, prior to us becoming a caliphate, being forced to convert to Islam and be judged under Sharia law or die, is likely mistaken.
Many people who live here loathe this country, our military, and everything we stand for.
Quite a few of them seem to be employed by universities and the MSM.
TR
Sir,
By 'same side', I was limiting my range to the people in this thread discussing things. You're right. There are those who want to force others to do as they do (Sharia, socialists, communists, etc.) and they should be debated, opposed, and if they break the law, punished for it.
Coming from a libertarian viewpoint, I think the market spoke out and the company's website is down, the business owner's name sullied. His credibility has been damaged and it will take some pro-active efforts on his part to explain such uncalled behavior. If the most that comes from him is "we've fired the guy and all has been taken care of", well, he hasn't done enough. Those who wish to oppose this company should boycott their products. Nothing like a little capitalism to teach a lesson back. If you earn profits off the market, you can earn a little retribution, too. It goes both ways.
Given that, I think that the assumption that we are all on the same side, prior to us becoming a caliphate, being forced to convert to Islam and be judged under Sharia law or die, is likely mistaken.
Many people who live here loathe this country, our military, and everything we stand for.
Quite a few of them seem to be employed by universities and the MSM.
TR
I said it once, I say again, Reaper for POTUS!
08? 12?
Warrior-Mentor
01-23-2007, 19:35
Tried to send the good SGT a note on AKO. No response yet.
Perhaps he's been "spammed" by a ton of others trying to help as well...
highspeedmdd
01-25-2007, 17:04
Kharma can be a wonderful thing...what goes around comes around.
I would love to see what happens to the guy that wrote the reply.
Someone please let me know when both my ex-wives get theirs...
Jack Moroney (RIP)
01-25-2007, 19:48
I guess my take is a little different. If this is a problem why in the hell hasn't the chain of command done something to meet the needs of the troops in the first place?
The Reaper
01-25-2007, 19:59
I guess my take is a little different. If this is a problem why in the hell hasn't the chain of command done something to meet the needs of the troops in the first place?
This is the root of the question.
Why do the troops not have the issue sleeping pads or self-inflating Therm-a-rest type mattresses?
I have long maintained that the Clothing Sales Store should not sell gear that should be free issue to soldiers, like the flashlights, knives, multitools, pouches, ranger beads, camo sticks, headwear, insect nets, etc., etc. Uncle Sam shoudl provide it.
However, having many friends in the industry, it is almost like some troops circulate lists of companies to solicit free stuff from, and then write to them asking for some.
This request seems to be legit, but the larger question is, why do the soldiers lack basic issue items while deployed, especially when some seem to have so much (hard barracks, real beds, steak and lobster nights, buffets, movie theaters, permanent PXs, food courts with Subways, Baskin and Robins, KFC, Burger Kings, flush toilets, hot showers, movie theaters, etc.)?
TR
Roguish Lawyer
01-25-2007, 20:22
This is the root of the question.
Why do the troops not have the issue sleeping pads or self-inflating Therm-a-rest type mattresses?
I have long maintained that the Clothing Sales Store should not sell gear that should be free issue to soldiers, like the flashlights, knives, multitools, pouches, ranger beads, camo sticks, headwear, insect nets, etc., etc. Uncle Sam shoudl provide it.
However, having many friends in the industry, it is almost like some troops circulate lists of companies to solicit free stuff from, and then write to them asking for some.
This request seems to be legit, but the larger question is, why do the soldiers lack basic issue items while deployed, especially when some seem to have so much (hard barracks, real beds, steak and lobster nights, buffets, movie theaters, permanent PXs, food courts with Subways, Baskin and Robins, KFC, Burger Kings, flush toilets, hot showers, movie theaters, etc.)?
TR
Given the rate of spending for the war, one would think that soldiers would not have these problems. I think the Pentagon needs an enema.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
01-25-2007, 20:25
Given the rate of spending for the war, one would think that soldiers would not have these problems. I think the Pentagon needs an enema.
This is not a management(Pentagon) problem, this is a leadership problem at the unit level.
Roguish Lawyer
01-25-2007, 20:28
This is not a management(Pentagon) problem, this is a leadership problem at the unit level.
In my opinion, those managers are not doing their jobs well if there are problems at the unit level.
The Reaper
01-25-2007, 20:32
In my opinion, those managers are not doing their jobs well if there are problems at the unit level.
Not necessarily.
Could be a poor decision writing in the packing list.
Many things may be left behind due to limited lift, expected availability of quarters, prioritization, etc.
Or it could be someone was stupid and failed to bring what he should have, which would be a the supervisory responsibility of his first line supervisor, who is a long way from the Pentagon.
TR
Jack Moroney (RIP)
01-25-2007, 20:37
In my opinion, those managers are not doing their jobs well if there are problems at the unit level.
Pete Schoomaker does not need to tuck in Joe-tent peg when he has more layers of command between him and the foxhole than you have raccoon droppings in your backyard. The point is that this is a problem that I would expect to be handled by the lowest level in the chain of command and if they are unaware of the problem then they are not doing their jobs. The five sided concrete sphincter responds to issues and problems that are brought to their attention by the chain of command and not by an all seeing eye that sits on the chief of staffs' desk.
Roguish Lawyer
01-25-2007, 20:37
I still think of the Pentagon as an obese government bureaucracy that wastes my tax money and fails to do its job efficiently.
And to be clear, that is an anti-Government statement, not an anti-military statement.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
01-25-2007, 20:43
I still think of the Pentagon as an obese government bureaucracy that wastes my tax money and fails to do its job efficiently.
And to be clear, that is an anti-Government statement, not an anti-military statement.
You'll get no argument from me, however there are parts of the Pentagon that work well-the problem is basically in entrenched civil servants that have been there forever and incapable of change. You would be surprised of the tales some of us could tell, they are beyond your wildest imagination.
...the problem is basically in entrenched civil servants that have been there forever and incapable of change...+1...
Team Sergeant
01-26-2007, 09:05
I still think of the Pentagon as an obese government bureaucracy that wastes my tax money and fails to do its job efficiently.
Hey RL when was the last time we had an "efficient" war?
War is "controlled chaos" at best. During WWII IIRC, it took a thousand sorties to destroy one German factory, during Vietnam it took maybe 100 sorties to destroy one bridge, during Desert Storm it only took one sortie to destroy two bridges. We are becoming efficient but we're not there yet.
War=money.
You'll get no argument from me, however there are parts of the Pentagon that work well-the problem is basically in entrenched civil servants that have been there forever and incapable of change. You would be surprised of the tales some of us could tell, they are beyond your wildest imagination.
Sir,
Excuse me for asking, but can these "civil servants" be replaced? If need be, where can I make a call...or series of? :confused:
Holly
Sir,
Excuse me for asking, but can these "civil servants" be replaced? If need be, where can I make a call...or series of? :confused:
Holly
Being a civil servant, I can offer an opinion. Once past the probationary period (3 years), you'd have to move heaven and earth and a whole offensive line worth of dead weight before anything would happen. A start would be congressman or representatives. But since they're the ones handing out the money, resources, and the pork, it's all an insidious little loop. Retirement is usually the way most dead weight walks out the door.
Unfortunately, the Colonel is quite correct. Though, I'll throw in a caveat. For DOD, senior leadership is also involved in the decision making process. The disconnect occurs when in the military-civil servant relationship, carreerism enters the picture. And the larger the bureaucracy, the more inefficient it gets. In my last 3+ years of service, it has been an uphill battle to fight the "Quantity vs. Quality" mentality here in the acquisition field. My boss, one of the rare few who has been doing so for the last 30 years, unfortunately will be retiring soon. Heck, he was so unpopular in some places because he actually made people work and do their jobs, they threw parties once he left.:rolleyes: Lean, six sigma, doing business more efficiently are mottos, and some senior leaders do take it seriously, but the military leadership moves on after their tour (2-3 years?), the civil servant is still there. Next commander to come in has a learning curve, decides on policies, and by the time thngs are set into motion, he/she is gone. Now, if that GS-15 or SES, who is the deputy/counterpart of the flag officer or O-6, doesn't believe in doing things differently, the execution will never be there. DOD is going to a new pay system, which is supposed to make things more competitive. We'll see how that pans out in the long run (performance based reviews/promotions).
DOD has plenty of money. The business of winning wars and putting resources where needed has been superceded by the business of justifying the larger budget and trying to spend it. Why give up money to an organization that would need it? If you do, your budget next year will get cut because you didn't need that money.
This problem is far larger than the tenured civil servant, it's how the Government works. Congress, executive branch, state, city, etc. Everyone plays a role. With all the equipment issues, think of how much could have been done if Congress actually curtials pork? In this case, we're talking about a simple pad for the trigger puller. We're our worst enemies...
Apologies for the rant.