View Full Version : Kimber ???
I purchased an Kimber Desert Warrior last year. Problem is that it fails to feed, usually when the magazine is near empty (last, two or three rounds) and fails to lock to the rear on a empty magazine. It was my carry gun but I have lost confidence in it for good reason, I am back to carrying my SIG P220. Nothing worse then hearing a click when you know you should hear a bang. I can send it back to the factory but I thought I would post on here first. Kimber wants me to pay for shipping and handling on a pistol that fails to function and cost a thousand bucks. Has anyone else had problems like this. Also on the SIG P220 I had problems with it not locking to the rear on a empty mag but the problem went away after the break in period, Below are some facts.
1. Over two thousand rounds thru it.
2. Happens on all magazines, even different brands.
3. Its not my hands, Shot it one handed from bench rest and still had problems
4. Used different types of ammo.
82ndtrooper
01-19-2007, 19:59
I cant speak for the "Warrior" pistol, but I do own the Kimber Tactical Pro II. The Warrior is somewhat of an original 1911A1 with some minor modifications. Those being the built in tactical rail, waffeled grips, ambi extended safety and the lanyard loop at the base of the mainspring housing. It's a stainless frame as opposed to the aluminum in the other models with Novak Combat sights.
Kimber Tactical Pro II is the 4"barrel with Meprolights and an aluminum frame with an external extractor. It is possibly one of the prettiest handguns available for $1,100, but it has been as unreliable as it is good to look at. Mine started with failure to feeds, at least one in every mag, and did not lock back the slide on the last round fired of the mag. This continued for almost 800 rounds of FMJ in various ammo manufacturers. I cant even think of firing JHP's out of it, they will not feed properly 50% of the time.
Kimber also had me pay for shipping back to it's custom shop. They polished the feed ramp, replaced the extractor and milled the chamber. It still fails to produce anything close to reliable 100% of the time.
Stick with the SIG, it's a better firearm for less money. In fact the SIG P220 is a no-nonsense pistol with the utility user in mind. Nothing fancy, just plain out great reliability with a steel frame and slide. It alway's feels better to have cold steel in your hands.
Just my .02
The Reaper
01-19-2007, 20:28
Damn, I have an original Kimber from back when they only made one model, and it has never had any problems in well over 2,000 rounds.
I would definitely send it back, and include in the note a mention of the fact that you are an SF guy and do a lot of training, but have had to retire the pistol for reliability problems.
If it won't do at least 1,000 rounds MTBFs when you get it back, sell it and get something else.
TR
82ndtrooper
01-19-2007, 21:43
[QUOTE=The Reaper]Damn, I have an original Kimber from back when they only made one model, and it has never had any problems in well over 2,000 rounds.
Which model do you own ? I want one.
MRBS's in my Kimber are a dismal 16-20 rounds. Far from being a reliable carried concealed blaster should I ever need it to perform. However, many Kimber owners swear their lives on them.
The Reaper
01-19-2007, 22:39
Which model do you own ? I want one.
MRBS's in my Kimber are a dismal 16-20 rounds. Far from being a reliable carried concealed blaster should I ever need it to perform. However, many Kimber owners swear their lives on them.
The original model, was that not clear?
TR
Eagle5US
01-19-2007, 23:14
My wife is planning on buying me a Kimber Desert Warrior for our anniversary this year (seeing as how I am in the desert). If there are both reliability AND customer service issues (which is the first I have heard for of either for Kimber). It may be worthwhile to look into something else.:(
Eagle
82ndtrooper
01-20-2007, 05:08
My wife is planning on buying me a Kimber Desert Warrior for our anniversary this year (seeing as how I am in the desert). If there are both reliability AND customer service issues (which is the first I have heard for of either for Kimber). It may be worthwhile to look into something else.:(
Eagle
It's actually a very nice looking pistol. I haven't fired the Warrior, merely handled it at the dealer while purchasing some ammo. It's a bit heavier than I'm used to from Kimber, but then again it has a steel frame and not aluminum.
The Desert Warrior of course is in the latest fashion of desert tan/dark earth with the waffled grips. It felt nice. I'd actually like to take my chances and purchase one.
Eagle5US
01-20-2007, 06:43
It's actually a very nice looking pistol. I haven't fired the Warrior, merely handled it at the dealer while purchasing some ammo. It's a bit heavier than I'm used to from Kimber, but then again it has a steel frame and not aluminum.
I'd rather have an ugly, common, non custom, non special edition firearm that fires, feeds and locks like it supposed to each time, every time than a pretty pistol in the new fad colors from a custom shop that I can't rely on.
I don't buy safe queens-I buy functional weapons.
Eagle
Team Sergeant
01-20-2007, 09:00
I purchased an Kimber Desert Warrior last year. Problem is that it fails to feed, usually when the magazine is near empty (last, two or three rounds) and fails to lock to the rear on a empty magazine. It was my carry gun but I have lost confidence in it for good reason, I am back to carrying my SIG P220. Nothing worse then hearing a click when you know you should hear a bang. I can send it back to the factory but I thought I would post on here first. Kimber wants me to pay for shipping and handling on a pistol that fails to function and cost a thousand bucks. Has anyone else had problems like this. Also on the SIG P220 I had problems with it not locking to the rear on a empty mag but the problem went away after the break in period, Below are some facts.
1. Over two thousand rounds thru it.
2. Happens on all magazines, even different brands.
3. Its not my hands, Shot it one handed from bench rest and still had problems
4. Used different types of ammo.
Team Sergeant=laughing quietly in the corner.:D
82ndtrooper
01-20-2007, 14:33
I'd rather have an ugly, common, non custom, non special edition firearm that fires, feeds and locks like it supposed to each time, every time than a pretty pistol in the new fad colors from a custom shop that I can't rely on.
I don't buy safe queens-I buy functional weapons.
Eagle
Agreed !!
At the time I had purchased my Kimber Tactical Pro II everyone on the 1911 boards had praised them for their reliability. My dealer had one to rent at his indoor range and the one I fired had app: 250 rounds fired through it. With WWB 230 grain the rental was flawless, hence the subsequent purchase.
As cited above, it became the safe queen, even after a trip back to the Kimber custom shop.
As I stated, most with a Kimber swear their lives on the reliability. This is not the case with my Tactical Pro II.
Noslack71
01-20-2007, 14:55
I purchased a new Combat Carry in 1998/99. I was at the range the next day and, when I fired the second round, it flew apart in my hands. The gun dealer would not take it back but, I did send it back to Kimber. It looked like the built a new pistol on the same frame. The gun dealer went to the range with me and put a couple of boxes through it with no further problems. He gave me a half dozen boxes of ammo for my troubles. The folks at Kimber were helpful enough and, I did not pay for shipping. Since then, I have put about 1000 rnds through it without any problems. I do not carry it nor, is it my first choice for home defense. I still remember that incident whenever I shoot it. I do not do business with that gun shop and, I have not purchased any other Kimbers.
I know a number of people that swear by them and, never have had any problems.
It's one of the smoothest and most accurate pistol out of the box I ever fired, don't get me wrong. Just that minor...........FAILURE TO FEED PROBLEM! I will send it in to the factory. I checked out a forum page and extractors were causing similar problems with other people. How I have no idea but replacing them seems to be the fix. Maybe they had a bad lot put out at the factory. Not only Kimber but mostly Kimber desert models. Yes the SIG P220 is great, no nonsense, no safeties, cheaper and a spring loaded de cocker. I still have faith in the 1911. The reason I got it was because it was a 1911, not because it had Warrior in the name....
Thanks for the help men
Team Sergeant
01-20-2007, 17:29
It's one of the smoothest and most accurate pistol out of the box I ever fired, don't get me wrong. Just that minor...........FAILURE TO FEED PROBLEM! Thanks for the help men
1911 clones, keeping 10,000 American gunsmiths employed.:D
It's one of the smoothest and most accurate pistol out of the box I ever fired, don't get me wrong. Just that minor...........FAILURE TO FEED PROBLEM! I will send it in to the factory. I checked out a forum page and extractors were causing similar problems with other people. How I have no idea but replacing them seems to be the fix. Maybe they had a bad lot put out at the factory. Not only Kimber but mostly Kimber desert models. Yes the SIG P220 is great, no nonsense, no safeties, cheaper and a spring loaded de cocker. I still have faith in the 1911. The reason I got it was because it was a 1911, not because it had Warrior in the name....
Thanks for the help men
Sir,
Kimber briefly experimented with "external extractors" accross nearly their entire line of pistols. The "Warrior" and "Desert Warrior" were released while this external (read non standard 1911 type) extractor was the norm. Despite this fact, both the warrior and desert warrior were based roughly on a pistol that Kimber built for the Marines who specified a traditional internal 1911 extractor.
It is possible that the problems referenced on the forum you read are in the external extractor equipped models. I work part time for kimber's largest master dealer and I know that when the external extractor was prevalent, we had an overwhelmingly high percentage of kimber 1911's returned to the factory for function issues.
Whatever the cause of the problems may be, it is unacceptable and I agree with TR, Get ahold of Kimber and keep making noise until you are satisfied. And then, if you still don't get 100% reliability, sell it off, send a nasty gram to Kimber and go buy a Glock or an HK ;)
HTH
Good times,
Blake
Big Daddy
01-21-2007, 08:58
Trade it in on a S&W 1911. I've got one and have shot 2,500 rounds through it without one single hiccup.
NousDefionsDoc
01-21-2007, 09:47
You broke it already? DAMN!
Team Sergeant, please quit laughing at him. No telling what he'll do to those people when he gets riled up. I've known him since '89 and I've only ever seen him "upset" twice. It wasn't pretty.:cool:
Bill Harsey
01-21-2007, 10:00
I've been thinking about this thread a little since reading it last night and it seems like good information is being put forth.
At the risk of interupting the work of all the Team Sergeants gunsmiths, what is the best possible result here?
It is to have a reliable good shooting handgun, bottom line period and I don't care who makes it.
You guys are already tracking on this part but let me underline it from an industry point of view. The manufacturer NEEDS to know what's going wrong, this has to be stated to them at the highest level you can reach and please keep hammering. Yes, I know this takes some time and shouldn't have to be done but the makers need to know and this may cause positive change.
Doing nothing guarantees nothing will get done.
If the manufacturer chooses to not solve the problem, then do not buy stuff from them and advise others the same.
Edited to add: When trying to solve a design/function issue with a manufacturer and things aren't going your way, ask for the PRODUCT or CATEGORY Manager who is in charge of the product in question.
out here.
Bill, I agree, manufacturers need to be responsive. I would venture to say, many firearms that are purchased because they have the "look" and will never be used. There is a very large population of people who can keep these non responsive manufactures in business building show/safe queens.
I always thought it was amazing a person would buy a firearm NIB, then spend a large quanity of money on it, to make it shoot.
If it was my pistol I would send it back and get it fixed, You might of just got a bad one s#%t happens. My daily CCW is a custom 2 and after reading this thread i went and counted all the empty boxes of ammo I need to reload, and there is over 5000 plus rounds though mine and thats with anything from UMC to Hydra shocks.
Team Sergeant
01-21-2007, 14:55
I've been thinking about this thread a little since reading it last night and it seems like good information is being put forth.
At the risk of interupting the work of all the Team Sergeants gunsmiths, what is the best possible result here?
It is to have a reliable good shooting handgun, bottom line period and I don't care who makes it.
You guys are already tracking on this part but let me underline it from an industry point of view. The manufacturer NEEDS to know what's going wrong, this has to be stated to them at the highest level you can reach and please keep hammering. Yes, I know this takes some time and shouldn't have to be done but the makers need to know and this may cause positive change.
Doing nothing guarantees nothing will get done.
If the manufacturer chooses to not solve the problem, then do not buy stuff from them and advise others the same.
Edited to add: When trying to solve a design/function issue with a manufacturer and things aren't going your way, ask for the PRODUCT or CATEGORY Manager who is in charge of the product in question.
out here.
Bill,
There's never been a pistol more worked on in the history of America than the 1911.
If you do a google search for "1911 parts" you get 1,680,000 hits. (You think there may be a correlation there?:rolleyes: )
The 1911 is an antique, historic, old-fashioned and out-of-date design.
You get what you pay for....:rolleyes:
TS
I mostly bought it for nostalgia reasons, The 1911 is definitely past it's time with all the new .45 Cal pistols on the market. Glock, HK, Springfield....etc.
Team Sergeant
01-21-2007, 15:37
I mostly bought it for nostalgia reasons
;) funny, I also "saved" one for the same "nostalgia" reason. It was sold to me by a plank holder in the "unit" and all it does now is sit quietly in the safe and collect dust.
Not kidding.
Good luck with your Kimber. You may want to make an offering to the 1911 gods. Some sort of blood sacrifice or simple blood letting might work.;)
Roguish Lawyer
01-21-2007, 15:55
Glock
I am a bit surprised the TS didn't take this bait too . . . :munchin
RL,
The Glock rules!
Stay safe.
Actually I have had my eye on the new Spring Field SD. I think thats what it is called. I read several reviews and handled it in a Gun Shop and they were all good, never shot it of course. Anyone have any experience firing it. I did buy the Kimber partly for nostalgia reasons, not kidding. Always wanted a 1911, plus I used it in the Army so I didn't have to retrain myself a whole lot.
1911 clones, keeping 10,000 American gunsmiths employed.:D
Between 1911s and Dremel tools, the future of the American gunsmithing industry looks pretty secure from here.
All it takes is a Dremel and A dream
AngelsSix
01-21-2007, 18:05
I have several Kimbers. I have a Tac Pro also and have had the same damn problems. The company pulled the same crap with me when I sent it back. I also have a full-size model with an internal extractor with which I have had ZERO problems. I truly feel that the smaller versions (newer versions) with the external extractors are a PITA as far as feed mals are concerned. I have a real love for my full-size 1911's, but they are too large for me to carry concealed on my small frame without serious printing. I have a Les Baer custom that I want to carry, but it is just too big. We carry Glocks at the department and when I start full-time they will issue me one. I guess I will carry it if I feel confident in it......but I doubt it will earn my trust the way my 1911's have.
Smokin Joe
01-22-2007, 05:16
Actually I have had my eye on the new Spring Field SD. I think thats what it is called. I read several reviews and handled it in a Gun Shop and they were all good, never shot it of course. Anyone have any experience firing it. I did buy the Kimber partly for nostalgia reasons, not kidding. Always wanted a 1911, plus I used it in the Army so I didn't have to retrain myself a whole lot.
Kgoerz,
I carry a Kimber Warrior with a Surefire X200B as my duty weapon. I have about 1,500 rounds through it without a hiccup. Even the Team Sergeant has shot it.
Sounds like yours has developed a hiccup for some unknown reason. I'd send it back, you know how the saying goes the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Kimber should do you right, if not sell it. I'd also drop them a note as TR suggested they usually take good care of Military and LEO's knowing how we use their weapons.
I also have experience with the Springfield XD's. They run like a Glock with a 1911/ Sig Grip angle. The only bad thing I can say about them is I personally do not like the trigger on them. There is a lot of take up, some over travel (like the Glock), and a lot of travel to reset the trigger. I know its splitting hairs but I'm picking about my triggers.
HTH, and Good luck,
SJ
Team Sergeant
01-22-2007, 09:29
I carry a Kimber Warrior with a Surefire X200B as my duty weapon. I have about 1,500 rounds through it without a hiccup. Even the Team Sergeant has shot it.
Smokin Joe is a cop and he made me shoot his pistol, honest. I didn't want to, too many bad memories. Too many associated malfunction drills to remember with the 1911. Head hurt, got dizzy, cannot remember if I hit the target.
All cleared up once my "man-gun" (HK USP .45) was back in my hands. No malfunction induced headaches, no reloading after seven rounds fired. Dizziness quickly faded. Went right back to shooting bullet holes through bullet holes. ;)
TS
Bill Harsey
01-22-2007, 09:31
Honest question, Why does the HK USP .45 function better?
You broke it already?
Well since it was a 1911. I was using it as a hammer also
rubberneck
01-22-2007, 10:11
Honest question, Why does the HK USP .45 function better?
The 1911 was designed in an era before CAD and CNC machines. The guns were made to work because the guys making them knew what they were doing.
The problem with design itself is that the gun has to be held to very close tolerances to work 100% unlike a Glock of H&K. If you get a couple of degrees off on the feed ramp on a 1911 and you'll have feeding problems. The only way to build a 1911 that runs really well all the time is to spend time ensuring that everything is set up just right. Unlike the modern designs you actually have to manually tension and radius the extractor on a 1911 for it to work properly. The problem is that you have to expend so many man hours going over the gun that it really starts to get expensive. To combat this 1911 makers have had to cut some corners (like using mim parts) just to get to a reasonable price point and the result has been a decrease in reliabililty.
The H&K is a modern design built with the aid of CAD and its parts are all made with very tight tolerances on CNC machines. Since there is only one H&K there is only one spec for the gun. Every part turned out by H&K for the USP will drop into any other USP of the same caliber and work. The 1911 on the other hand can have slightly different specs from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Even though I love the 1911 and own two of them I will admit that they aren't very practical from a cost perspective. Both of them run and run very well, and both are more accurate than I am but that came with a hefty price tag.
FearTheCats
01-22-2007, 10:44
kgoerz:
If you haven't sent your Kimber back to Kimber already, may I suggest what has worked for me--(1) take it up to Shooters Pawn on Bragg Boulevard this evening and have Greg the Gunsmith tension the extractor properly, and (2) get Chip McCormick mags, rip the innards out, and replace with Tripp Industries springs and followers. I have had zero failures with my Springfield TRP since doing this.
Team Sergeant:
You're right that autoloading pistols have made progress in the last 95 years. 1911s are for gun nuts only, and gun nuts who have enough money and sense to do maintenance and replace parts. I trust mine enough to carry it on duty above all other choices. Our department's standard issue is SIG P220 which is wonderful except that when somebody takes it from you, they shoot you with it if they want to (and we did have a subject take away a deputy's 220 last year, but he didn't totally want to shoot the deputy, just ran away). If somebody gets my 1911 away from me, it MIGHT take them a couple seconds to figure out the thumb safety, which MIGHT give me enough time to take countermeasures. That, and the first-shot accuracy, tip the balance for me.
My off-duty is ye olde M9, just like GI except it has night sights. It also rides on-safe. I know a lot of people hate this gun but mine has never even thought about jamming, I can hit with it, and it conceals a little more easily IWB than a 1911. Also, since I didn't sign the Hague Convention, I fill it up with 147gr hollowpoints. I shoot both a Sams M9 Brigadier and an accurized 1911 (not an A1, a 1911 made in 1918) in bullseye competition. They both have big blocky Bo-Mar match sights with sharp corners that make IWB carry painful and interfere with duty holster straps; otherwise, they're good to go.
My theory about the difference between the reputation and reality of the 1911, and it's not a new theory, is that in the World Wars, the Fedril Gummint supervised QC at all contractors and everybody made parts correctly. Nowadays, 1911s are hit-or-miss because in a capitalist world, gunmakers only have to build something that will fly off the shelves, and then function for the 200 rounds that most people shoot their guns. It's true that for many people, nothing fits their hand like a 1911 and nothing is as easy to hit with as a 1911, but unless you are prepared to take care of a temperamental design, go get something much newer and learn to hit with it.
The Reaper
01-22-2007, 11:03
There are very few 1911 manufacturers or pistolsmiths who understand the proper relationship between reliability and accuracy.
The original 1911 went more than 30,000 rounds between failures, feeding 230 grain Ball ammo from GI mags.
The parts could be swapped from pistol to pistol with very little, if any hand fitting required.
The 1911A1 I was issued in 1979 (which was manufactured in 1943) ran fine for thousands of rounds while I had it. Zero stoppages or failures, even at end of the FY ammo shoot offs.
Strange that today, the same pistol seems to be unreliable, I wonder how we screwed that up? Probably as stated, excessively tight pistols, unusually shaped ammo, and wide manufacturing tolerances from the original design.
Also curious that a round designed over 100 years ago for the 1911 is as popular as it is today as defensive purposes.
Even Gaston Glock seems hard pressed to improve on it significantly.
Just my old school .02. I like some of the HKs as well.:D
TR
I have notice that a firearm is generally blamed for a Failure to Feed problem. That on some firearms the design of the feed ramp will work with certain rounds and not with others. Truncated RN and HP, have a tendency not to feed well on a steep ramp. The choice of ammo can greatly effect a firearms ability to preform as expected.
Great! Now I'm worried. I'm just shy of 1.000 rounds through my Kimber TLE/RL II and it's developed problems. Failure to extract at least one round per magazine. I've quit carrying it and it's gone from the night stand to the safe. The hole for the firing pin is also enlarging. Almost egg or tear drop shaped. Greg and John at Shooters said it definately needs to go back to Kimber for a replacement. It has to be some kind of metal lury (sp??) problem. I called and got the same run around it sounds like you guys got on the shipping and so forth. WTF. I'll get around to shipping after this class ends. Take care all.
The Reaper
06-04-2008, 07:09
Great! Now I'm worried. I'm just shy of 1.000 rounds through my Kimber TLE/RL II and it's developed problems. Failure to extract at least one round per magazine. I've quit carrying it and it's gone from the night stand to the safe. The hole for the firing pin is also enlarging. Almost egg or tear drop shaped. Greg and John at Shooters said it definately needs to go back to Kimber for a replacement. It has to be some kind of metal lury (sp??) problem. I called and got the same run around it sounds like you guys got on the shipping and so forth. WTF. I'll get around to shipping after this class ends. Take care all.
Have you tensioned or replaced the extractor?
TR
TR, I ordered a new extractor and it took a month to get. The guys at shooters were all in agreement on sending it back to Kimber for the enlarged hole around the firing pin. Kimber is going to replace the entire slide with an internal extractor. Hopefully they can do it faster than it took for the new extractor.
I had one that did the same .... took it straight to a friend who is a gunsmith he did some work on the magazine release and it's been in perfect working order since.
ZooKeeper
06-04-2008, 20:47
The only bad thing I can say about them is I personally do not like the trigger on them. There is a lot of take up, some over travel (like the Glock), and a lot of travel to reset the trigger. I know its splitting hairs but I'm picking about my triggers.
I have a XD45 and that was my only complaint as well. I sent it to Scott at Springer Precision in Bend, OR to have him do one of his famous trigger jobs. It shoots like a completely different firearm.
ZK
gtcrispy
06-16-2008, 12:06
Just adding that with my Kimber Warrior and 2000+ rounds i rarely have any problems even throwing the crappy factory reloads through it.
Tacticalinterve
06-17-2008, 08:17
1911s?
I have carried a 1911 everyday since 1981. As cop,SWAT and off duty.
I love and hate the things.
I have seen more great 1911s that would run all day everyday and never screw up than I can remember. I have seen even more screwed up 1911s
Kimbers to start with
The original ones where basically hand made pieces of art and ran real well. You find one buy it. It will just say Custom on side it wont have a "II" after it. They made them that way until they where just too busy and also decided to make the safety changes. The newer ones are iffy if they will work or not from factory. Heck I bought a Gold Combat II that would not hit a barn at 25 yards. I sent it back and they fixed for free but it always bugged me that I paid so much for a POS.
If the pistol is for hard use I would have a good 1911 smith replace a few MIM'd parts with the following
Trigger,sear ejector. get the Cylinder and Slide Tool Steal sets. I have these in one pistol with over 45,000 rds through it. MIM is Metal Injection Molded or poop to many.
Extractor. The factory extractors from most all the off the shelf 1911s are junk and soft. They will loose tension and cause the problem in this thread.
Slide stop. Replace MIMd POS with tool steal Wilson Bullet Proof model.
Magazines. Everyone makes 1911 magazines but not everyone makes good one. I like the Wilson 7 and 8 rounders best.
Have these things done and your pistol should run many thousands of rounds.
Dont do this and its iffy
Now I love my 1911s and mine are all good to go but if my old butt was to go off shore I would take a Glock or three instead because while the 1911 will shoot circles around a Glock for HRT work the Glock will work after you ahve wipped your arse with it.
Just my opinion.
Rob_0811
06-17-2008, 14:53
I've put about 2500 rounds through my Kimber TLE II (no rail) and have not had one problem with it. The only reason it isn't my EDC is because it's a full size, so I use my Glock 32 as my beater gun.
That Kimber sold me on 1911's.